Isn’t it suspicious that Rams now have a string of failed drafted secondary players?

[Rams43]

Burgess
Long
Rochell (apparently)

These were all 3rd/4th round picks and all had very high expectations.

There are probably others but these really stand out because of where they were drafted and consequent expectations.

Question. Has Snead and his scouting staff forgotten how to evaluate secondary players after so many successes earlier?

OR…

Has our secondary coaching staff recently failed abysmally to develop players considered at least above average?

We are currently 0 for 3 on these promising kids. Three blown premium draft picks in a row in the secondary and guess what? We still have 2 holes to fill back there somehow this bare bones offseason.

If you think I’m frustrated, you’re right.

 

[PARAM]

Secondary players drafted by the Rams

J. Johnson, S 2017 3rd Rd
N. Scott, S 2019 7th Rd
D. Long, CB 2019 3rd Rd
T. Rapp, S 2019 2nd Rd
T. Burgess, S 2020 3rd Rd

J. Fuller, S 2020 6th Rd
R. Rochell, CB 2021 4th Rd
C. Durant, CB 2022 4th Rd
Q. Lake, S 2022 6th Rd
D. Kendrick, CB 2022 6th Rd
R. Yeast, S 2022 7th Rd

11 guys. 7 safeties and 4 CBs. We have 5 guys who aren't with the team anymore and 3 were signed by other teams (failures?). There's another sure to get a deal. We have 6 guys who are still with the team. Are they "failures" yet?

 

[AvengerRam]

Not really.

They’ve had some players who have had a reasonable amount of success. JJ, Fuller, Rapp, Long, Scott, Durant…all have had good moments on good teams.

Also…unless I’m missing someone…the Rams have not used a Top 50 pick on a DB in a long time. The success rate drops significantly as you get later in the draft. I’m not convinced that the Rams’ success rate is unusual.

 

[Tano]

Secondary players drafted by the Rams

J. Johnson, S 2017 3rd Rd
N. Scott, S 2019 7th Rd
D. Long, CB 2019 3rd Rd
T. Rapp, S 2019 2nd Rd
T. Burgess, S 2020 3rd Rd

J. Fuller, S 2020 6th Rd
R. Rochell, CB 2021 4th Rd
C. Durant, CB 2022 4th Rd
Q. Lake, S 2022 6th Rd
D. Kendrick, CB 2022 6th Rd
R. Yeast, S 2022 7th Rd

11 guys. 7 safeties and 4 CBs. We have 5 guys who aren't with the team anymore and 3 were signed by other teams (failures?). There's another sure to get a deal. We have 6 guys who are still with the team. Are they "failures" yet?

Something is wrong - I agree with you on this one

Sorry - couldn't help myself

 

[Ram Ts]

Long was a biiig miss. Especially as a 3rd rounder.
Burgess was lauded as a great pick. He just didn’t work out for whatever reason.
RR - tbd. But if he fails, that’s also a big miss.

 

[PARAM]

Not really.

They’ve had some players who have had a reasonable amount of success. JJ, Fuller, Rapp, Long, Scott, Durant…all have had good moments on good teams.

Also…unless I’m missing someone…the Rams have not used a Top 50 pick on a DB in a long time. The success rate drops significantly as you get later in the draft. I’m not convinced that the Rams’ success rate is unusual.

Correct.

One 2nd round (Rapp #61)
Three 3rd round (Johnson #91, Long #79, Burgess #104)
Two 4th round (Rochell #130, Durant #142)
Three 6th round (Fuller #199, Lake #211, Kendrick #212)
Two 7th round (Scott #243, Yeast #253)

Three of the 5 guys we lost have been signed elsewhere, with a 4th coming soon. 6 are still with the team, so not yet failures.

 

[AvengerRam]

Respectfully, I feel like there are some here who, on a lot of issues, are all too quick to condemn the team’s leadership.

Note the I used the word “condemn,” not “criticize.”

Criticism is the life blood of a sports message board. But condemnation? For a leadership team that brought a title just a year ago?

What’s the theory here? That they are basically incompetent and fell assbackwards into a title out of pure luck?

I don’t get it.

 

[PARAM]

20/20 second guessing and the prognostication of imminent failure are attributes that prevent one from being wrong if some factor such as luck changes what should have really been. They don't draft well, spend like drunken sailors, trade players to the team they wish to go instead of the teams offering the most and don't respect the theory, it all starts with the OL! And yet they've gone 60-38, 7-3 in the PS with 2 SBs and a Lombardi. McVay and Snead have been blessed with the most luck ever bestowed upon an NFL head coach and GM in the history of the league.

 

[Tano]

I am just easing myself into possibly seeing a terrible year.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[BonifayRam]

I am just easing myself into possibly seeing a terrible year.

I hope I am wrong.

Tano, those Snead/McVay DB selections mentioned above were not grade-A or even B players. Even the overhyped JJ III was cut lost his job & joined the WWC.

Let's just say the best return from the invested selections from that DB cadre was that 7th rd selection for Nick Scott. I just as soon forget the others & move on none are worth any future investments. The NFL world will soon file them into closed case files.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Burgess
Long
Rochell (apparently)

These were all 3rd/4th round picks and all had very high expectations.

There are probably others but these really stand out because of where they were drafted and consequent expectations.

Question. Has Snead and his scouting staff forgotten how to evaluate secondary players after so many successes earlier?

OR…

Has our secondary coaching staff recently failed abysmally to develop players considered at least above average?

We are currently 0 for 3 on these promising kids. Three blown premium draft picks in a row in the secondary and guess what? We still have 2 holes to fill back there somehow this bare bones offseason.

If you think I’m frustrated, you’re right.

This is part of why I say that I lost faith in Snead’s drafting. With this system of Stars interlaced with role players the mid round picks are vital. They don’t have to be Ramsey level but better than the three that you named is integral to the roster build.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Respectfully, I feel like there are some here who, on a lot of issues, are all too quick to condemn the team’s leadership.

Note the I used the word “condemn,” not “criticize.”

Criticism is the life blood of a sports message board. But condemnation? For a leadership team that brought a title just a year ago?

What’s the theory here? That they are basically incompetent and fell assbackwards into a title out of pure luck?

I don’t get it.

The topic is draft evaluation and selection. Nobody is condemning the entire leadership.

But let’s just say the Rams didn’t have McVay. Do you think Snead would be able to pick a Super Bowl roster for a lesser known coach just through the draft in just a few years? Recognizing proven talent like Ramsey isn’t hard. You could say that recently poor draft results hastened this rebuild that was scheduled for 2024.

 

[Tano]

Nobody is condemning the entire leadership.

This

 

[AvengerRam]

In the championship season, if you look at snap counts, 6 of the top 10 players on offense and 5 of the top 10 on defense were draft picks.

And yes, a term like “failed abysmally” (See original post) is a condemnation.

I hate this pattern, which is all too common on message boards (The Herd is particularly bad). Worried fans post over-the-top pessimistic thoughts (their own, or by reposting Click Bait Blogs), others say "wait a second... be patient... etc." and the reply is "what, we can't criticize?"

Constructive criticism - great.
This kind of stuff - tedious and pointless.

No, the team has not "failed abysmally" in drafting DBs.

Okay.

Happy?

Next question.

 

[TexasRam]

Let’s face it the Org adopted the F them picks philosophy. It helped us win a championship but it’s no formula for sustained success and that is precisely what we are living through now.

We could be the Niners who have no recent Lonbardi’s though they are consistently in the championship. I am glad we are not.

The bust rate for DBs RD3 on is somewhere in the teens so our hit rate there is about right in my opinion.

Clearly, there have been epic fails (Tutu over Humphrey) and organizational disconnects. Like moving back and forth to eventually draft Rapp and then expect him to play in coverage when every scouting report said he would be a liability if used in that way.

I’m not the biggest fan of Snead and think his group is mediocre at scouting and projections but his ability to think outside the box has been instrumental in our success in reaching two Super Bowls and winning one.

 

[Ellard80]

I don't really agree without a lot more data.

You'd have to compare the draft picks in relationship to other teams' success with similia picks.

I remember reading an article last year about how the rams were actually on of the most successful teams in the league at getting the most out of mid and late round picks.

Your premise for being upset may actually be false when quantified.

 

[Merlin]

First you have to decouple Corners and Safeties. They have hit on safeties, and done so well into drafts, so their ability to draft them is not a concern.

Corners on the other hand have not been drafted well. Durant being the only one they seem to have hit on. Looking deeper I think part of the problem lies with defensive identity. Rams have switched their defense from Wade to Staley to Morris and while the playbook undoubtedly did not change from Staley to Morris the way it is called did. Morris is much more conservative and predictable in pre-snap shenanigans.

Translation here is that the ideal corner for Morris are aggressive ballhawks who can swoop on throws. Durant being an excellent example of this. Being strong in man coverage while also being able to play off when sitting on a lead is his ideal corner type IMO. And these types are the ones who tend to go earlier vice later in drafts btw.

 

[FarNorth]

Secondary players drafted by the Rams

J. Johnson, S 2017 3rd Rd
N. Scott, S 2019 7th Rd
D. Long, CB 2019 3rd Rd
T. Rapp, S 2019 2nd Rd
T. Burgess, S 2020 3rd Rd

J. Fuller, S 2020 6th Rd
R. Rochell, CB 2021 4th Rd
C. Durant, CB 2022 4th Rd
Q. Lake, S 2022 6th Rd
D. Kendrick, CB 2022 6th Rd
R. Yeast, S 2022 7th Rd

11 guys. 7 safeties and 4 CBs. We have 5 guys who aren't with the team anymore and 3 were signed by other teams (failures?). There's another sure to get a deal. We have 6 guys who are still with the team. Are they "failures" yet?

Doesn't seem like necessarily a high drafting failure rate to me, given lack of high picks and likelihood that many players drafted by any team may not pan out. What stands out instead is that Rams have not been keeping/resigning the players who have a clear market value with other teams.

Is this a strategy to get rid of young players after (or even during) their rookie contracts? Or are these guys unplanned cap casualties? Or in fact are they just not good enough to resign?

Whether this is a strategy or not, it puts a lot of pressure on the team to come up with new bodies, presumably through the same draft process, and have them step in and play well quickly.

 

[I like Rams]

I don't think you can call them "failures". Many of them are better suited to play man, yet were set up to play zone.

 

[PARAM]

Recognizing proven talent like Ramsey isn’t hard. You could say that recently poor draft results hastened this rebuild that was scheduled for 2024.

I don't know if they had anything "scheduled" for 2024. But let's say they did. We're sure "poor draft results" hastened the rebuild? It's not possible "poor perfomance" hastened it?

Couldn't they have come to the conclusion, "we just paid 52.2 mil for these 8 guys and this is the defensive product we had on the field this year? 20.7 PPG? 21st in yards allowed? Now 5 of them are unrestricted free agents and 3 of them are going to cost 59.7 mil! What's wrong with this picture?"

They might have figured, "we have the 3 time DPOY and we just have to surround him with decent talent. We've got some young experienced guys in Ernest Jones and Jordan Fuller. A lot of young guys who got experience in Derion Kendrick, Cobie Durant, Russ Yeast, Bobby Brown, Ernest Brown, Michael Hoecht, Jonah Williams and Robert Rochell, plus some guys we've acquired in Larrell Murchison and Shaun Jolly. And then we get 11 draft picks in the upcoming draft? We can do something with that!!! And if by some chance we're contending and need a position on D prior to the trade deadline, we've got all kinds of cap space next year, plus a 2024 first round pick in our pocket!!! If we're not or we're set pretty well, we've got all kinds of cap space, plus a 2024 first round, 2nd round, 3rd round...hell all the rounds next year!!!"

Doh!! Tough decision!!!

And who says, that something "was scheduled for 2024?" Maybe it was scheduled for 2023.....which makes way more sense. Win the SB in 2021, run it back in 2022, then unload all those cap heavy guys in 2023!!!

So it's quite possible nothing was "hastened".