Is history repeating itself, or is attrition on the defense finally going to bite us?

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AvengerRam

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Last year at this time, we were wondering what the Rams were going to do about two key defensive starters, Corey Littleton and Dante Fowler, both of whom were UFAs.

The concern seemed significant. Littleton was the team's leading tackler with 134 stops, and also contributed 9 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs, 2 INTs, and 3.5 sacks. Fowler was "Robin" to Aaron Donald's "Batman" as a pass rusher, with 11.5 sacks, 16 QB hits, and 2 FFs.

In the end, the Rams chose to retain neither, allowing Littleton to sign with the Raiders, while Fowler signed with the Falcons.

And its not as though the Rams brought in "sure things" to replace them. For Littleton's spot, the Rams penciled in Micah Kiser, an untested mid-round pick. At edge rusher, the Rams took a flyer on Leonard Floyd, who had averaged less than 5 sacks/year in his first four seasons.

The result, of course, was great. The Rams didn't miss a beat and, in fact, improved on defense in pretty much every category. Meanwhile, both Littleton and Fowler now appear overpaid.

So here we are, a year later, with a similar dilemma: do we re-sign (assuming we can find sufficient $ to do so) John Johnson and/or Leonard Floyd.

Perhaps history is repeating itself. Perhaps the best move is to save our money (maybe use what we have on the OL) and to trust that we can find another edge who can excel with Donald taking up multiple blockers, and a safety (who may already be on the roster) who can be effective with Jalen Ramsey locking down top WRs each week.

The bar has been set at a high level for the defense but, perhaps, a "next man up" approach is the most prudent. Or, is it possible that financially prompted attrition will finally catch up with the defense and, if JJ and Floyd to leave, we'll see it take a big step backwards?

I don't know the answer. Hopefully, Sean McVay, Les Snead and Raheem Morris get this one right.
 

CGI_Ram

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I am going to miss Floyd. He fit what we need out of an DE perfectly! Just perfect.

But, I think this is the beauty of Donald...... Free Agents see what’s happening here.

Flowler, now Floyd... about to cash in.

So,... rinse and repeat. Find another “prove it DE“. We need that player... THAT PLAYER wants to play here! We have a win win situation on our hands.

Who is that player this year? Go get’em Snead.
 

Rams43

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Last year at this time, we were wondering what the Rams were going to do about two key defensive starters, Corey Littleton and Dante Fowler, both of whom were UFAs.

The concern seemed significant. Littleton was the team's leading tackler with 134 stops, and also contributed 9 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs, 2 INTs, and 3.5 sacks. Fowler was "Robin" to Aaron Donald's "Batman" as a pass rusher, with 11.5 sacks, 16 QB hits, and 2 FFs.

In the end, the Rams chose to retain neither, allowing Littleton to sign with the Raiders, while Fowler signed with the Falcons.

And its not as though the Rams brought in "sure things" to replace them. For Littleton's spot, the Rams penciled in Micah Kiser, an untested mid-round pick. At edge rusher, the Rams took a flyer on Leonard Floyd, who had averaged less than 5 sacks/year in his first four seasons.

The result, of course, was great. The Rams didn't miss a beat and, in fact, improved on defense in pretty much every category. Meanwhile, both Littleton and Fowler now appear overpaid.

So here we are, a year later, with a similar dilemma: do we re-sign (assuming we can find sufficient $ to do so) John Johnson and/or Leonard Floyd.

Perhaps history is repeating itself. Perhaps the best move is to save our money (maybe use what we have on the OL) and to trust that we can find another edge who can excel with Donald taking up multiple blockers, and a safety (who may already be on the roster) who can be effective with Jalen Ramsey locking down top WRs each week.

The bar has been set at a high level for the defense but, perhaps, a "next man up" approach is the most prudent. Or, is it possible that financially prompted attrition will finally catch up with the defense and, if JJ and Floyd to leave, we'll see it take a big step backwards?

I don't know the answer. Hopefully, Sean McVay, Les Snead and Raheem Morris get this one right.

Outstanding post, Avenger.

My take? Rams will elect to allow JJ and Floyd to walk and try to repeat their successful ‘20 strategy here in ‘21.

As an aside, having the expensive AD and Ramsey on their roster DOES include some valuable ripple effects, including this one that you’ve outlined.
 

AvengerRam

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I wonder if Ryan Kerrigan (a UFA at age 33) could be an affordable short term option.
 

oldnotdead

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Floyd will get paid. Johnson is the one that will be allowed to walk. The Rams will be 3 deep at safety with Fuller, Rapp and Burgess while Scott played well as a #4. Floyd is more important at this point than one more year of Whitworth. They save about $5M if he is released. Morgan Fox had a break out year, but it's really just one year. I don't see him as being overly expensive. I can see him getting a one or two year "prove it" contract. It's not like they don't already have his replacement in Jonah Williams, a faster, quicker version.

Although he's a favorite, IMO Brockers will be gone in 2021. Fox has shown he is more versatile.

They can clear another $5M or so by releasing Havenstein. Again it's not like they don't already have his replacement in Edwards. Troy Hill looked very good this past season but IMO it was all the scheme. I've always contended that he's strictly a zone CB and so in Staley's zone he looked better than he really is. He still struggled in a lot of man coverages.

Regarding Brown, this season showed the value of being 3 deep at RB. IMO they should ask him if he will convert to a FB role. His hands and short-yardage power would be a good fit. He has the size to match up with most LBs.

Josh Reynolds is gone IMO. Jefferson is better.

Darious Williams is a rising star and he will get paid. Between Hill and Williams it's a no brainer in favor of Darious.

Coleman Shelton will be re-signed as the replacement for Blythe.

So in reality they only have 3 priority extensions. They should be able to manage that.

I also expect Ebukam to return. He was played out of position by Staley but he still played well. If the new DC does move to a more conventional 4-3 Ebukam is already a very good SAM LB allowing him to return to his normal position.
 

AvengerRam

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Floyd will get paid. Johnson is the one that will be allowed to walk. The Rams will be 3 deep at safety with Fuller, Rapp and Burgess while Scott played well as a #4. Floyd is more important at this point than one more year of Whitworth. They save about $5M if he is released. Morgan Fox had a break out year, but it's really just one year. I don't see him as being overly expensive. I can see him getting a one or two year "prove it" contract. It's not like they don't already have his replacement in Jonah Williams, a faster, quicker version.

Although he's a favorite, IMO Brockers will be gone in 2021. Fox has shown he is more versatile.

They can clear another $5M or so by releasing Havenstein. Again it's not like they don't already have his replacement in Edwards. Troy Hill looked very good this past season but IMO it was all the scheme. I've always contended that he's strictly a zone CB and so in Staley's zone he looked better than he really is. He still struggled in a lot of man coverages.

Regarding Brown, this season showed the value of being 3 deep at RB. IMO they should ask him if he will convert to a FB role. His hands and short-yardage power would be a good fit. He has the size to match up with most LBs.

Josh Reynolds is gone IMO. Jefferson is better.

Darious Williams is a rising star and he will get paid. Between Hill and Williams it's a no brainer in favor of Darious.

Coleman Shelton will be re-signed as the replacement for Blythe.

So in reality they only have 3 priority extensions. They should be able to manage that.

I also expect Ebukam to return. He was played out of position by Staley but he still played well. If the new DC does move to a more conventional 4-3 Ebukam is already a very good SAM LB allowing him to return to his normal position.
I don’t see the Rams releasing Whitworth, and releasing Brockers would only save a little more than $5.5M, while creating $4.1M in dead cap.
 

STLRamsfan

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Someone maybe looking for a prove it deal?

Clowney.
I also think Charles Harris would be a fit as well, first off Raheem Morris has coached him and may want to bring him in, also he is a former first round pick who hasn't really panned out just like Floyd. Could be an option.
 

dieterbrock

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Although he's a favorite, IMO Brockers will be gone in 2021. Fox has shown he is more versatile.
How so? What type of contract do you think Fox will garner? It will cost about 3 mill to dump Brockers. If Fox is going to sign for 5-6 mill, he'll cost virtually the same. I'd stick with Brock in that case
 

nighttrain

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How so? What type of contract do you think Fox will garner? It will cost about 3 mill to dump Brockers. If Fox is going to sign for 5-6 mill, he'll cost virtually the same. I'd stick with Brock in that case
plus, AD and Brockers are tight, gotta keep AD happy!!
train
 

VegasRam

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I think they roll the dice again. Just throwing this out there, but there IS concern at the QB position (THIS IS NOT A GOFF THREAD PEOPLE - DO NOT REPLY WITH JG CRAP!).

So A. Goff shines and he's here forever: if the D goes from 1st to say...top ten, we're still a playoff team. No need to have extended these two at what would have been minimum 5 year $50-60M contracts, with $30-40M guaranteed each. And while they may certainly be worth it, there's not a big enough difference to warrant spending the money. Especially in what might be a drop in the cap year.
And if we do spend money - OL please.

Or B. Goff sucks (afa McVay's concerned), and we decide to move on in 2022: we then have money to burn, because he's still good enough that someone will pick up his contract, and the cap will jump significantly because Covid's gone (please God), and new TV contracts are coming, and maybe JR and AD restructure a bit. And then we can get a killer Oline (seeing a trend here?)

And MAYBE...Terrell Lewis stays healthy, or somebody else steps up, and that with our depth at safety makes the risk worth taking.
 
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FrantikRam

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Obviously once we know the cap, we'll know more.

But with the projected little amount we have, all our money should go toward maximizing Goff's skillset. I'd completely ignore the defense.
 

The Ramowl

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What I'm thinking is that maybe other teams start to get smart about what is going on with the Rams defense. It feels like every year, we let a big piece of our defense go, and these players play under expectations wherever they land after they sign a really juicy contract.
That's Aaron Donald. And this year it was Ramsey on top.
My hope is that after the divisional round against Green Bay, it became obvious to everyone that this defense was running through AD first and foremost. So taking Floyd away from us is an illusion, this version of Floyd only exists when you have AD absorbing most of the line. This is also why Fowler was so easily replaceable. We don't need a great Edge, we need someone who's good and can make the plays when the opportunity is there, but that doesn't mean they can be dominant in any other team.

Coaches poaching the Rams defense and realising they overpaid average players :
 

thirteen28

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As much as I love JJ, it's a no-brainer to let him walk. Fuller did a great job as a rookie and will only get better. Burgess what playing excellent in his limited playing time, and I suspect he'll take JJ's spot. We also have Rapp and Scott on the roster, neither of whom is as well rounded as the previous two but both of whom who have some good qualities and thus provide good depth.

Edge is a little dicier. I'd love it if they could keep Floyd, but there is the matter of whether or not we can afford him, and also the limited resources we have which must be prioritized to fix at least our interior OL. Floyd might want to follow Staley to San Diego (see what I did there?) where he will benefit from the presence of Joey Bosa. Terrell Lewis showed some big time potential, but unfortunately he showed some big-time propensity to get injured. In the end I think we're going to have to burn some draft resources on this spot.
 

Rams43

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Floyd will get paid. Johnson is the one that will be allowed to walk. The Rams will be 3 deep at safety with Fuller, Rapp and Burgess while Scott played well as a #4. Floyd is more important at this point than one more year of Whitworth. They save about $5M if he is released. Morgan Fox had a break out year, but it's really just one year. I don't see him as being overly expensive. I can see him getting a one or two year "prove it" contract. It's not like they don't already have his replacement in Jonah Williams, a faster, quicker version.

Although he's a favorite, IMO Brockers will be gone in 2021. Fox has shown he is more versatile.

They can clear another $5M or so by releasing Havenstein. Again it's not like they don't already have his replacement in Edwards. Troy Hill looked very good this past season but IMO it was all the scheme. I've always contended that he's strictly a zone CB and so in Staley's zone he looked better than he really is. He still struggled in a lot of man coverages.

Regarding Brown, this season showed the value of being 3 deep at RB. IMO they should ask him if he will convert to a FB role. His hands and short-yardage power would be a good fit. He has the size to match up with most LBs.

Josh Reynolds is gone IMO. Jefferson is better.

Darious Williams is a rising star and he will get paid. Between Hill and Williams it's a no brainer in favor of Darious.

Coleman Shelton will be re-signed as the replacement for Blythe.

So in reality they only have 3 priority extensions. They should be able to manage that.

I also expect Ebukam to return. He was played out of position by Staley but he still played well. If the new DC does move to a more conventional 4-3 Ebukam is already a very good SAM LB allowing him to return to his normal position.

Agree on some, disagree on others, oldnotdead.

Floyd will be unaffordable and will be allowed to walk. I wish it were otherwise. Rams will probably bring in an affordable vet there on his ‘prove it’ opportunity with AD. This cycle could go on for years, actually.

JJ is a goner, agreed.

I predict Whit at LOT in ‘21, but not beyond that.

Agreed, Fox will likely be extended. Too much value there.

Agreed, Brockers is very iffy due to the cap.

Hav’s pass pro leaves a lot to be desired, so I could see them offloading him via trade.

Totally agree that Hill was a scheme thing and that he’s a goner because of cap.

Brown is probably gone. I’m 90% sure, anyway.

Reynolds is definitely gone.

Yeah, Williams is a no brainer to be here for at least next year.

Blythe is almost certainly a goner, but who knows if Shelton or a FA/draft pick will be our starter.

I don’t share your enthusiasm for Ebu. Never have, really. Looks like a jag to me.

So, how many ‘holes’ does that leave us with to plug via trade, FA, or draft? Ummmmm...

3rd RB
Backup QB to maybe even replace Goff
C
3rd TE behind Hopkins
Edge 1
Edge 2
DL to replace Brockers

Replacements for JJ and Hill are already on the roster (Burgess/ Long at nickel and Burgess/Rapp at S)

So, by my count, we will have a probable 7 ‘holes’ with an unsettled QB situation, depending on how Rams feel about Brockers and Hav.
 

madrid311

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Last year at this time, we were wondering what the Rams were going to do about two key defensive starters, Corey Littleton and Dante Fowler, both of whom were UFAs.

The concern seemed significant. Littleton was the team's leading tackler with 134 stops, and also contributed 9 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs, 2 INTs, and 3.5 sacks. Fowler was "Robin" to Aaron Donald's "Batman" as a pass rusher, with 11.5 sacks, 16 QB hits, and 2 FFs.

In the end, the Rams chose to retain neither, allowing Littleton to sign with the Raiders, while Fowler signed with the Falcons.

And its not as though the Rams brought in "sure things" to replace them. For Littleton's spot, the Rams penciled in Micah Kiser, an untested mid-round pick. At edge rusher, the Rams took a flyer on Leonard Floyd, who had averaged less than 5 sacks/year in his first four seasons.

The result, of course, was great. The Rams didn't miss a beat and, in fact, improved on defense in pretty much every category. Meanwhile, both Littleton and Fowler now appear overpaid.

So here we are, a year later, with a similar dilemma: do we re-sign (assuming we can find sufficient $ to do so) John Johnson and/or Leonard Floyd.

Perhaps history is repeating itself. Perhaps the best move is to save our money (maybe use what we have on the OL) and to trust that we can find another edge who can excel with Donald taking up multiple blockers, and a safety (who may already be on the roster) who can be effective with Jalen Ramsey locking down top WRs each week.

The bar has been set at a high level for the defense but, perhaps, a "next man up" approach is the most prudent. Or, is it possible that financially prompted attrition will finally catch up with the defense and, if JJ and Floyd to leave, we'll see it take a big step backwards?

I don't know the answer. Hopefully, Sean McVay, Les Snead and Raheem Morris get this one right.
They're are a lot of unknowns for sure. Can Raheem pick up where Staley left off? Will Donald be back 100% or is he now past his invincibility? No middle linebacker, no edge rusher may be. Good observation, we will see soon. Go rams.
 

Angry Ram

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I remember a lot of people freaking over losing Cory Littleton. Good guy, good player but a team isn't made with a Cory Littleton type.

Really the only player that the Rams didn't resign that hurt them is Rodger Saffold in 2019, and now it seems like they got Austin Corbett who filled in admirably. I guess Janoris Jenkins is a second player, but that dude has become a journeyman now.
 

Flatlyner

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I'm thinking the only priority FA on this team needs to be D.Williams first, second, and last. We have the guys to replace the rest and I'd almost just sooner save the cap and maybe sign a upgrade at Center. As to edge, I LOVE the idea of a Clowney 1 year prove it deal. I think its in his and our best interest honestly. I think he could truly sign playing with Donald.
 

Ram Ts

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We don’t need 11 stars on D. We have two elite superstars. More stars uses up too much space and creates holes/mismatches on D. Surround AD & Ramsey with a bunch of solid guys - and we’re set. Some of those other 9 solid guys are growing into more too or have the potential to do so (DW, fuller, Lewis, burgess, fox, gaines, etc.). If someone wants to come take a pay cut to play alongside AD/Ramsey then great. But it’s not necessary if we fill all spots around them with solid players.

Now the OL - that’s a whole other story