Eye Opening Holding Statistic

[Robocop]

http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?&year=2014

Here is a comparison between the defensively forced offensive holding calls between LAST season and THIS season so far...

Last season our defense caused 53 sacks mostly with just their front 4 being one of the lowest blitzing teams. Last season our defense forced 22 holding calls in those 16 games.

This season our defense has caused 1 sack in 5 games and blitzed about 48% of the time! Highest in the league and many times bringing more than 5.
AND this season our defense has forced 5 holding calls in 5 games...

I would love to get Fisher's take on this.

 

[RamBall]

They have forced way more.than 5 holds each the problem is.the refs atent calling.them

 

[LetsGoRams]

I think there have only been 2 holding calls by our opponents this year. And I think the second one was on a run play on Monday night.

 

[thirteen28]

I'm wondering if this is a league wide thing. They might be de-emphasizing holding to protect QB's. Doesn't make it right though, and if so, it's another example of how they are ruining the game by trying to take out the obvious occupational hazards.

 

[DaveFan'51]

http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?&year=2014

Here is a comparison between the defensively forced offensive holding calls between LAST season and THIS season so far...

Last season our defense caused 53 sacks mostly with just their front 4 being one of the lowest blitzing teams. Last season our defense forced 22 holding calls in those 16 games.

This season our defense has caused 1 sack in 5 games and blitzed about 48% of the time! Highest in the league and many times bringing more than 5.
AND this season our defense has forced 5 holding calls in 5 games...

I would love to get Fisher's take on this.

I'd rather get Williams's take on this^!! Why does he think this is happening!(or not happening!)

 

[iced]

Ohhh the holding is occurring - it's just not being called. I could go back and find i'd guess on average 4 blatant uncalled per game..not questionable, not toeing the line, blatant fucking violation of the rule as described

 

[V3]

They have forced way more.than 5 holds each the problem is.the refs atent calling.them

They forced more holding calls last year, as well, that weren't called. Holding isn't called as much as it should/could be. It's been that way for a very long time.

 

[theramsruleUK]

Look, I know we are looking for help from the refs. God knows some of the holds are crazy.

That being said, they just need to get the job done. You think JJ Watt isn't held every play? If your job is to sack the QB, complete your assignment. It's simply not good enough at the moment.

 

[Stranger]

http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?&year=2014

Here is a comparison between the defensively forced offensive holding calls between LAST season and THIS season so far...

Last season our defense caused 53 sacks mostly with just their front 4 being one of the lowest blitzing teams. Last season our defense forced 22 holding calls in those 16 games.

This season our defense has caused 1 sack in 5 games and blitzed about 48% of the time! Highest in the league and many times bringing more than 5.
AND this season our defense has forced 5 holding calls in 5 games...

I would love to get Fisher's take on this.

Okay, so here's the basic comparison...

2013: 4.7 sacks or holds per game
2014: 1.2 sacks or holds per game

Almost a 4X decline not factoring in the additional blitzing on almost 1/2 the plays.

If this isn't a deliberate bias, I don't know what is. To hold the view that this is merely "bad refereeing" defies logic at this point.

 

[Username]

Pretty sure I heard the Rams have the fewest sacks in the history of the league through 6 weeks. #Sackcity

 

[Angry Ram]

Look, I know we are looking for help from the refs. God knows some of the holds are crazy.

That being said, they just need to get the job done. You think JJ Watt isn't held every play? If your job is to sack the QB, complete your assignment. It's simply not good enough at the moment.

So tired of this process. The Rams DL have fought through holds like the one JJ Watt gets. None more evident than Robert Quinn on Drew Brees last season.

I'm not complaining about every hold not being called. Jerseys get pulled, guys are fighting each other, etc. That occurs almost every play and it's unrealistic (and would be incredibly annoying) to have a ref call those.

We're complaining about opposing tackles straight up grabbing shoulder pads, having our guys in freakin headlocks, and/or tackling them to the ground. Please tell me how a guy is supposed to fight through that? And whenever the Rams on defense do make a play, it's holding...on the fuckin Rams!! When it no way, shape, or form is!! It's beyond maddening!

No that is not an excuse, that is what is actually happening.

 

[theramsruleUK]

So tired of this process. The Rams DL have fought through holds like the one JJ Watt gets. None more evident than Robert Quinn on Drew Brees last season.

I'm not complaining about every hold not being called. Jerseys get pulled, guys are fighting each other, etc. That occurs almost every play and it's unrealistic (and would be incredibly annoying) to have a ref call those.

We're complaining about opposing tackles straight up grabbing shoulder pads, having our guys in freakin headlocks, and/or tackling them to the ground. Please tell me how a guy is supposed to fight through that? And whenever the Rams on defense do make a play, it's holding...on the freakin Rams!! When it no way, shape, or form is!! It's beyond maddening!

No that is not an excuse, that is what is actually happening.

Yes it's actually happening, but its not the main reason either. To blame our 1 sack total on holding penalties not being called is just crazy.
Yes it's a part of it, no question. But there are many other reasons for the low sack number.
Scheme, technique, bad play are the first things that come to mind.
Not to mention we have no run defence so teams are just happy to hand the ball off and teams are constantly throwing quick passes and screens which negates any pass rush anyway.
All these things have had a massive effect on our DL, hence our poor sack numbers.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

I don't want to sound mean but nothing about those statistics are eye opening except the baffling 53 sacks to 1 which everyone already knew. But 22 sacks vs a projected 16 isn't that big of a discrepancy. I get the point you are trying to make, but I'm a numbers guy and those numbers don't tell me much.

 

[Athos]

I think GW has KILLED this defense with his stupid blitzing. He took a strength, the front four, and turned it into mediocrity.

I get the no-holds, but the continuing blitzing with no success has to end.

Or maybe we just need to can Gregg Williams and see if the no call holds end. If they do, well....he just has to go then.

 

[Robocop]

I don't want to sound mean but nothing about those statistics are eye opening except the baffling 53 sacks to 1 which everyone already knew. But 22 sacks vs a projected 16 isn't that big of a discrepancy. I get the point you are trying to make, but I'm a numbers guy and those numbers don't tell me much.

you mean 22 holds vs. projected 16. if you're a numbers guy you need to add in your biggest variable. PRESSURE we blitz HALF our plays. idk the exact percentage last year but it was almost never. if your a numbers guy you should know that with our current number of sacks and holds this season with a 2 season precedent set AND with the amount of blitzing we do it would be a very low statistically probability to have these numbers.

 

[SyncMaster]

I'm wondering if this is a league wide thing. They might be de-emphasizing holding to protect QB's. Doesn't make it right though, and if so, it's another example of how they are ruining the game by trying to take out the obvious occupational hazards.

I'm wondering the same thing, but I'm thinking its more because Illegal hands to the face is a more popular call this year. We all know they don't want every other play to be a flag, so I'm thinking they decided to call holding less to even it out. Like someone else pointed out, one of our holds came on a run and that's where I see it called more than anything.

I would love to see total number of holding calls throughout the league this year vs last year.

 

[thirteen28]

I'm wondering the same thing, but I'm thinking its more because Illegal hands to the face is a more popular call this year. We all know they don't want every other play to be a flag, so I'm thinking they decided to call holding less to even it out. Like someone else pointed out, one of our holds came on a run and that's where I see it called more than anything.

I would love to see total number of holding calls throughout the league this year vs last year.

The thing is, if they did call holding at the same rate they used to, the incidents of it would probably go down over time, as would the calls. Or at least the holding would have to become much more subtle than it has been, making it easier for the defense to overcome it. The reduced number of holding calls right now seems to only be encouraging more blatant and obvious holds, like the uncalled ones on Langford against Dallas, the one on Donald that was shown in another photo on this one, or the one on Quinn that kept him from pressuring Kap on the 80 yard bomb.

When people say holding goes on every play, they mean (or at least used to mean) that it was very subtle and harder to detect. This season, at least from what I am seeing, the uncalled holding is blatant and obvious and teams are doing it with impunity.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I think we all hate to be "that guy that blames the refs", but it really is hard to get your head around. We're not talking about one bad game here. It's alarming.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

you mean 22 holds vs. projected 16. if you're a numbers guy you need to add in your biggest variable. PRESSURE we blitz HALF our plays. idk the exact percentage last year but it was almost never. if your a numbers guy you should know that with our current number of sacks and holds this season with a 2 season precedent set AND with the amount of blitzing we do it would be a very low statistically probability to have these numbers.

You didn't provide our blitz percentage as part of these eye opening stats. Like I said, I see what you are trying to say. I just pointed out that the numbers do nothing to support that point. Lets break this down, your overall point is something like "Teams are holding our players way more and getting penalized less for it. Refs Suck" Is this correct?

So you give the stat that we were held 22 times last year vs a projected 16 this year (you actual only mentioned the 5 so far). Using your stats table I calculated that the projection of 16 calls is just outside of the average of 18.4 penalties from last year. This is also within a standard deviation which was 5.7. This means that 68% of the time holding penalties should range between 12.7 and 24.1 holding penalties. This means that so far, there has been no discrepancy between the amount of calls from this year and last years.

You than give the 1 sack vs the 58. I can definitely say that is outside of the norm.

The problem is that these are the only two sets of statistics you gave. Put in words you said something like "I wonder what Fisher's thoughts are on having 1 sack vs 58 last year while maintaining a very normal distribution of holding penalties called on our defense" Now if your argument was that, perhaps this is Greg Williams fault, I could begin to see what you are using these numbers for. But you would still need more information to make that statement.

 

[Angry Ram]

Yes it's actually happening, but its not the main reason either. To blame our 1 sack total on holding penalties not being called is just crazy.
Yes it's a part of it, no question. But there are many other reasons for the low sack number.
Scheme, technique, bad play are the first things that come to mind.
Not to mention we have no run defence so teams are just happy to hand the ball off and teams are constantly throwing quick passes and screens which negates any pass rush anyway.
All these things have had a massive effect on our DL, hence our poor sack numbers.

Run defense isn't that big of an issue, when you consider the caliber of RBs we've gone against. Still only 1 TD given up to a RB all year. But that's another topic.

I'm not blaming a 1-4 record purely on the refs. Yes there are multiple factors and other issues. I'm saying they have a huge factor in it. 2 calls is the difference b/w 1-4 and 3-2. Maybe better if Philly would've worked out. And they (the calls) are terrible. Not just this year, this date backs to 2012 and 2013. The team has been fucked over with bad calls time and time again and it's coming to a boiling point.

And there is no issue of pointing it out, all I want (and sure most others) is for the refs to call it fair. If the Rams are gonna lose, at least let them lose b/c the other team was simply better and played with better technique. Shitty calls make losses feel, well shittier, than they already are.