Empty Sets

[Oregonram]

I am asking an honest question. I am asking those of you who have been closer to coaching in the High School or College level than I have. What are the advantages to running empty sets…is is mainly to give your offense one more weapon than the defense can defend? Yea f that is the case, then you better know where your going with the ball, because you have no blocking next to you, and the defense doesn’t have to worry about the run. It feels high risk for a turnover and QB sacks…I have come to dislike the empty set because the defense only has to worry about one thing. I would like an educated conversation.

 

[Snaz]

The concept is to spread the defense out. Greater chance of a player being 1 vs 1.

I personally dislike it immensely as it can only be a pass. Unless you have a mobile QB.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

In 2021 we had some success with it. When our Oline could actually pass block.

 

[Londoner]

When our Oline could actually pass block.

View: https://youtu.be/y3KEhWTnWvE?si=HOcbXUsvWpbfzo0t

 

[Mojo Ram]

Running them on 3rd and short repeatedly is not fundamentally sound playcalling

McVay is wearing on me as a playcaller

 

[Memphis Ram]

I scream at the TV almost every time they do it.

If I had a magic want and could eliminate this from the playbook and add Stafford taking snaps from the center and executing play action, I believe the offense would have scored more points this year.

 

[Tano]

I hate when they go empty see on 3rd and short and when they are within the red zone

There just isn't enough room for 5 receivers inside the red zone.

Bunch them together and put two in the backfield and fake to one and toss to the other seems to work more often than not. Don't do it all the time of course but have teams know it is in the playbook and then do play action passes as well. And other stuff from that formation.

 

[FaulkSF]

The advantages are basically saying you can’t cover all of our WRs with your DBs and our pass blocking > your pass rush. I agree with the first half of the statement would give the Rams an advantage, but against the Stealers, they would overpower us with their front four on paper.

I think it’s a net positive against teams like the Cards and maybe another team or two. For the most part, I don’t care for it as you’re generally putting a RB in pass and asking Higbee to catch a ball. I’d rather run more bunch formation, which seems more successful.

 

[Tumak61]

Stafford has been very average. 6 picks already. Rams are paying him huge bucks to be average.

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

I absolutely loathe empty set nonsense. It started for me back in the GSOT days. Heck even Kurt and Marshall and the gang couldn't get it to work as I recall.
IMO it's a decent formation IF and I mean IF you have a highly mobile QB (like Lamar Jackson) other than that it's a roll of the dice and we all know the odds are stacked against you.
I used to hate it when Martz would employ it but now I see Martz, Jr. can't seem to resist either.
If Coach Mac continues to channel his inner Martz then we are screwed in more ways than we know....

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[AZRams]

I absolutely loathe empty set nonsense. It started for me back in the GSOT days. Heck even Kurt and Marshall and the gang couldn't get it to work as I recall.
IMO it's a decent formation IF and I mean IF you have a highly mobile QB (like Lamar Jackson) other than that it's a roll of the dice and we all know the odds are stacked against you.
I used to hate it when Martz would employ it but now I see Martz, Jr. can't seem to resist either.
If Coach Mac continues to channel his inner Martz then we are screwed in more ways than we know....

~ArkyRamsFan~

Had a dream last night that McVay went out and drafted his own Eric Couch. Woke up in a cold sweat this morning...

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

Had a dream last night that McVay went out and drafted his own Eric Couch. Woke up in a cold sweat this morning...

That wasn't a dream, that was a nightmare. Let us hope and pray you never see something called Trung Canidate.
That would be all but unbearable.

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[jrry32]

It is easier to read the defense when the offense goes empty.

 

[Tumak61]

I see the biggest problem with empty this season being how inconsistent Stafford is. Another issue is he has two targets. The defense knows it's a pass, and they know it's either going to Kupp or Nacua, or the tunnel screen. That's all folks.

 

[Ellard80]

Empty sets are used a lot in most levels of football.

Let me break down some ideas for you.

Why did Mcvay do a dumb thing and start with an empty set at the beginning of the half?
Likely he did this because we had been running the ball effectively so PITT came out in a base defense.
One concept and probably the most heavily used reason for empty sets is it makes linebackers and safeties who are in the game to stop the run cover in space. In theory it worked because you had Watt out covering instead of rushing... but of course it went completely wrong because of a bad read and good call by the Steelers.
It's a cat and mouse game.. I come out in base... so I spread you out... you come out in dime... so I run the ball etc.

Other reasons why teams run empty.

It makes the defense have difficulty disguising coverages.
It stretches the zones in the defense.
It accentuates speed advantages.
If you have a fast QB it creates problems.
It makes the defense have to cover two quick slot threats.

IF anyone has some data about our empty sets id like to see it. I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

How effective are we in empty sets? We definitely remember the bad plays but forget the good ones - i think pukas first long gain was out of empty.

Empty sets are meant to get the ball out quickly - when we see Stafford holding the ball for a long time in an empty set its usually bad...

 

[Merlin]

The problem is the protections. So the moment you go empty there is a free rusher in the QBs face or a quick pressure and bad things happen.

And vs a strong pass rush front they could run the ball to balance things a bit but their backfield threat is non-existent.

Henderson ran hard the entire game and was great in pass pro but he is too limited. He does not present a threat to flip the field but also goes down usually at first contact.

Freeman is also limited but he punishes tacklers one on one. If they had fed him instead of going committee he may have worn that Steeler front down.

Going forward the way this team will win games is by good protections. Fix that first. Then from there I would make Feeman the starter and get him 20+ snaps per game and hope he can give this offense a power threat until Williams returns.

Every time McVay has fed a power run game threat his offense has rolled. It isn't who he is, but the impact of that to his scheme is undeniable.

 

[RamWoodie]

Stafford has been very average. 6 picks already. Rams are paying him huge bucks to be average.

I think not. I know for a fact 3 of his picks are through hands. We know Stafford can be a gunslinger though.

In fact, I think there should be a category that doesn't credit the QB when a receiver causes the pick. It shouldn't go on the QB as an INT.

 

[WestCoastRam]

The other benefit of empty sets is that it makes it easier to identify where the pressure is coming from and you should - SHOULD - be able to hit a hot read quite easily.

 

[Tano]

I think not. I know for a fact 3 of his picks are through hands. We know Stafford can be a gunslinger though.

In fact, I think there should be a category that doesn't credit the QB when a receiver causes the pick. It shouldn't go on the QB as an INT.

Or be in parenthesis

 

[dieterbrock]

I think not. I know for a fact 3 of his picks are through hands. We know Stafford can be a gunslinger though.

In fact, I think there should be a category that doesn't credit the QB when a receiver causes the pick. It shouldn't go on the QB as an INT.

Terrible pick to start the 2nd half, and while it wasnt a result of a tipped ball like the ones you mentioned, it was the result of a poor play design/call
Rams ran the ball great in 1st half and if McVay wanted to go deep they were perfectly set up for play action. Instead they show all their cards and Staff made a mistake.
Just awful all around.
I think Staff has been pretty darned good this year, made some 1st downs with his feet and some of his throws just make you shake your head that somebody could put a ball in such a tight spot
If anything, he's a victim of his own success, he makes them look so much better than what they are