Draft: Reading Between the Lines

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Merlin

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Had a few thoughts that sort of come together under that topic so wanted to put them together...

1. Kromer likes his OL talent. No way around this, really, as I feel that if that was not the case the Rams would have addressed it with a pick collection of 2nd, 2x 3rd, and 2x 4th picks which is the wheelhouse for linemen.

Where this is particularly surprising is Center. I don't see Sullivan as a starter, I think he's a backup at best. Also I'm not certain it's wise to bank on one of the holdovers moving there and succeeding at the level they need. But inevitably they must be high on one of these guys and think they have their answer in-house and will use Sullivan as fallback if it doesn't work out.

It's also a little bit surprising to me at RT. My rationale is they wanted to move Havenstein inside which probably means they don't think he has the feet for how much passing they're gonna do. So now they're depending on GRob, which, well, I don't like. Maybe they like another OT on the depth chart? Must be it, I don't know.

2. Upheaval in the WR room. First off the focus on route running that comes with McVay and that offense is going to dictate guys don't get on the field without being exactly the right depth and position for a given play, and the influx of two guys is going to make that room a pressure cooker.

I'm not sure Tavon is ever going to adjust to the route running requirements, so if he doesn't improve he might find himself sulking on the bench. Trade is unlikely as is an outright cut, given how much he's going to be making. Assuming he gets it together and improves there, he's still looking at reduced targets. As I mentioned in a previous post where we discussed Tavon and predictions of his production, I believe lower target amounts will increase his big plays per touch. So it's a good thing IMO.

CKup has a mix of size, hands, and route consistency/excellence that is going to get him "starters" snaps with Woods. While McVay mentioned he's going to move guys around I would guess by snap percentage those two guys end up on the field a LOT. Which suggests that Tavon finds himself in a deeper rotation in the slot, and when I consider that against a higher amount of 12 and 13 personnel and/or some of the TEs simply rotated into Y from time to time it makes me wonder if Tavon might be phased out barring a big jump in performance. Competition for playing time is going to be significantly increased IMO, and if Tavon's contract wasn't so bad I'd swear they're planning on trading him.

3. Special teams. One thing I noticed was that special teams was considered with the additions. JJ might push for playing time as a rook, but regardless he is a very high level teams producer. His film is loaded with him making plays on teams and Ebukam also has range, explosiveness and the right mindset to carry his weight from the bottom of the roster.

Teams were something I was a little concerned with under McVay; wasn't sure he'd be willing to sacrifice potential in order to give a roster spot to the better special teams player among the guys fighting for spots. Not worried about that any longer.
 

MadGoat

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I think the quality of the offensive linemen available in this draft is really low. Even Lamp, who was available to the Rams in the 2nd had some big concerns around his transition to the NFL. Meanwhile, the TE, DB, and WR talent was much better. The team may have just figured they'll have to get by with what they have rather than reach. The center position is odd, but many NFL teams prefer drafting them late. Maybe it will be addressed in round 6.
 

LACHAMP46

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It's also a little bit surprising to me at RT. My rationale is they wanted to move Havenstein inside which probably means they don't think he has the feet for how much passing they're gonna do. So now they're depending on GRob, which, well, I don't like. Maybe they like another OT on the depth chart? Must be it, I don't know.
Weak line class must account for some of it...G-Rob is on his last year. Sullivan is a year removed from back surgery. Sullivan is 35....I'd guess we'd need some type of insurance for these last two guys.

I still wonder, why guys like Havenstein more than G-Rob? 2014 was a long time ago...and no matter what anyone says, G-Rob is a better player. You wanna see? Move Havenstein to Left Tackle...if he can last 1 game, I'd stop harping on how he allowed Goff to get sacked 3 times in one game....and hit countless times in others.

The team may have just figured they'll have to get by with what they have rather than reach.
If I was Goff, and I thought this...I'd be terrified. I'd hope that they found some technical flaw that they can fix b4 the season...and make these refrigerators with legs, move as one.
 

StealYoGurley

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Another thing to consider on the O line is this is bad O line draft and all of the NFL seems to agree on that.

My mindset this offseason has been since this a bad OL class the rams may as well try out one of their own guys at center at least to backup Sulivan if not to beat him out. McVay and Kroemer were both successful last year converting career guard to center.
 

Merlin

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Another thing to consider on the O line is this is bad O line draft and all of the NFL seems to agree on that.

We all agree on it I think. But regardless of that there were players available who would have been looked upon as upgrades if Kromer did not like what he saw thus far. Ramczyk went end of round 1, if Kromer didn't like RT they could have moved up a bit for him or Robinson early round 2. At Center if they didn't like someone for a conversion project I'm pretty sure they would have taken Lamp or Feeney, both of whom were solid interior OL; I wasn't a Lamp nut like many here, but the guy is a very solid interior prospect.

Also forgot to mention the "explosive" thing above. They definitely put a preference on that with all their picks in their way, with a notable focus on broken tackles, which is interesting. And their two defensive picks, while understated, were absolutely excellent.
 

Riverumbbq

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Another thing to consider on the O line is this is bad O line draft and all of the NFL seems to agree on that.

My mindset this offseason has been since this a bad OL class the rams may as well try out one of their own guys at center at least to backup Sulivan if not to beat him out. McVay and Kroemer were both successful last year converting career guard to center.

If Wichmann can't convert to center, he's gone imo. Rhaney has shown nothing. Rams should draft a center soon imo.
 

12intheBox

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Character seems to be important to this regime as well - we have drafted hard workers who are addicted to football so far - just like we did in free agency.
 

Merlin

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If Wichmann can't convert to center, he's gone imo. Rhaney has shown nothing. Rams should draft a center soon imo.

Don't rule out Donnal in the whole Center thing. He might be in that mix too.
 

Limey

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I would like them to take a late round OC as well, but Kromer took an unexceptional OG in Groy and made him into such a good OC that it put many in here on suicide watch when we didn't offer him quality starter money, so I'm hopeful he can do the same with Wichman or Brown. Without needing to make protection calls, it's much easier for OG converts in Kromer's system.
 

snackdaddy

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Had a few thoughts that sort of come together under that topic so wanted to put them together...

1. Kromer likes his OL talent. No way around this, really, as I feel that if that was not the case the Rams would have addressed it with a pick collection of 2nd, 2x 3rd, and 2x 4th picks which is the wheelhouse for linemen.

Where this is particularly surprising is Center. I don't see Sullivan as a starter, I think he's a backup at best. Also I'm not certain it's wise to bank on one of the holdovers moving there and succeeding at the level they need. But inevitably they must be high on one of these guys and think they have their answer in-house and will use Sullivan as fallback if it doesn't work out.

It's also a little bit surprising to me at RT. My rationale is they wanted to move Havenstein inside which probably means they don't think he has the feet for how much passing they're gonna do. So now they're depending on GRob, which, well, I don't like. Maybe they like another OT on the depth chart? Must be it, I don't know.

2. Upheaval in the WR room. First off the focus on route running that comes with McVay and that offense is going to dictate guys don't get on the field without being exactly the right depth and position for a given play, and the influx of two guys is going to make that room a pressure cooker.

I'm not sure Tavon is ever going to adjust to the route running requirements, so if he doesn't improve he might find himself sulking on the bench. Trade is unlikely as is an outright cut, given how much he's going to be making. Assuming he gets it together and improves there, he's still looking at reduced targets. As I mentioned in a previous post where we discussed Tavon and predictions of his production, I believe lower target amounts will increase his big plays per touch. So it's a good thing IMO.

CKup has a mix of size, hands, and route consistency/excellence that is going to get him "starters" snaps with Woods. While McVay mentioned he's going to move guys around I would guess by snap percentage those two guys end up on the field a LOT. Which suggests that Tavon finds himself in a deeper rotation in the slot, and when I consider that against a higher amount of 12 and 13 personnel and/or some of the TEs simply rotated into Y from time to time it makes me wonder if Tavon might be phased out barring a big jump in performance. Competition for playing time is going to be significantly increased IMO, and if Tavon's contract wasn't so bad I'd swear they're planning on trading him.

3. Special teams. One thing I noticed was that special teams was considered with the additions. JJ might push for playing time as a rook, but regardless he is a very high level teams producer. His film is loaded with him making plays on teams and Ebukam also has range, explosiveness and the right mindset to carry his weight from the bottom of the roster.

Teams were something I was a little concerned with under McVay; wasn't sure he'd be willing to sacrifice potential in order to give a roster spot to the better special teams player among the guys fighting for spots. Not worried about that any longer.

Even with the focus being on weapons for Goff, I believe this team is going to hang its hat on the defense while trying to build the offense. This defense has a chance to be top ten or better. Love the additions of Barwin and Robey. I'm also excited about moving Joyner to FS. He has the range a good free safety needs with very good closing speed.
 

Psycho_X

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Character seems to be important to this regime as well - we have drafted hard workers who are addicted to football so far - just like we did in free agency.

That's what I'm taking from this. McVay is pushing his "We not me" slogan with these picks.
 

Merlin

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Even with the focus being on weapons for Goff, I believe this team is going to hang its hat on the defense while trying to build the offense. This defense has a chance to be top ten or better. Love the additions of Barwin and Robey. I'm also excited about moving Joyner to FS. He has the range a good free safety needs with very good closing speed.

Speaking of defense, we can make some assumptions at CB too eh? Clearly they like what they have, and they do indeed see Webster as a starter, which I personally wasn't too sure about before in spite of the signing.
 

jap

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Sean "Little Caesar" McVay is saying loud & clear, "We are not! going to be the NFL's worst offense three years in a row! We are collecting guys who can (or eventually will) run routes precisely and won't drop the rock. We got a guy with a Golden Arm making aerial deliveries. We got a super stud with a Golden Body handling the ground game. The Battering Rams are back in LA---be afraid; be very afraid!!!"
 

Riverumbbq

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Speaking of defense, we can make some assumptions at CB too eh? Clearly they like what they have, and they do indeed see Webster as a starter, which I personally wasn't too sure about before in spite of the signing.

I also have to believe the Rams are now seeing TruJo as a long term asset and will eventually be signed. Can't imagine letting this CB draft class getting past us unless he is penciled in for several more years. jmo.
 

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The Only question that I heard about Lamp, was whether he could last at tackle because of his size...This was why he was more projected as an interior lineman. Even so, he was described by many as the best Olineman in the draft. Let's face it...we will NEVER have a dominant Oline thinking we can just continue to "make do" and "coach up". I have been buying the whole "coach up" garbage until about two season's ago. A guy is, what he is. And no, just because we expended draft capital two years ago (or the last couple of years), doesn't mean that you ignore the problem, because that's what "coaching up" means to me now. Just because you paid a roofer big dollars to fix a roof and it still leaks...You don't fold your hands while water drips on your head, enjoying that 60 inch Flat Screen TV you just bought, instead of fixing the roof.

*steps off soap box:giveup:
 

Merlin

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The Only question that I heard about Lamp, was whether he could last at tackle because of his size...This was why he was more projected as an interior lineman. Even so, he was described by many as the best Olineman in the draft. Let's face it...we will NEVER have a dominant Oline thinking we can just continue to "make do" and "coach up". I have been buying the whole "coach up" garbage until about two season's ago. A guy is, what he is. And no, just because we expended draft capital two years ago (or the last couple of years), doesn't mean that you ignore the problem, because that's what "coaching up" means to me now. Just because you paid a roofer big dollars to fix a roof and it still leaks...You don't fold your hands while water drips on your head, enjoying that 60 inch Flat Screen TV you just bought, instead of fixing the roof.

*steps off soap box:giveup:

I think coaching is of massive importance Loyal. Look at the Washington Huskies. They get a real coach and all of a sudden they have all manner of draftable prospects and difference makers. Bad coaching doesn't get return on the value of available talent. Great coaching does and buys you all kinds of wiggle room because of it.

Kromer's history is very good. He has some talent to work with, and I think it's important to give the guy a shot before we condemn his and the team's decision making on not addressing the interior of the OL. I was surprised we didn't go after at least an interior guy, but their picks tell us what they think of the roster.
 

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I think coaching is of massive importance Loyal. Look at the Washington Huskies. They get a real coach and all of a sudden they have all manner of draftable prospects and difference makers. Bad coaching doesn't get return on the value of available talent. Great coaching does and buys you all kinds of wiggle room because of it.

Kromer's history is very good. He has some talent to work with, and I think it's important to give the guy a shot before we condemn his and the team's decision making on not addressing the interior of the OL. I was surprised we didn't go after at least an interior guy, but their picks tell us what they think of the roster.

I'm from Missouri on this one, Merlin. Four different coaching regimes have spewed the coaching up mantra. Martz drover Vermeil's corvette into the ground, because of the draft mistakes and overeaches...Linehan, Spag, and Fisher said they could coach up different position groups...nothing...So right now, it makes me wonder how much coaching matters? I think a player has an amount of ability that doesn't change, and he is what he is no matter what a coach does. Maybe certain techniques can be taught or improved, but the proverbial sow's ear, can't be transformed into silk cloth.
 

Riverumbbq

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I'm from Missouri on this one, Merlin. Four different coaching regimes have spewed the coaching up mantra. Martz drover Vermeil's corvette into the ground, because of the draft mistakes and overeaches...Linehan, Spag, and Fisher said they could coach up different position groups...nothing...So right now, it makes me wonder how much coaching matters? I think a player has an amount of ability that doesn't change, and he is what he is no matter what a coach does. Maybe certain techniques can be taught or improved, but the proverbial sow's ear, can't be transformed into silk cloth.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-medications-antidepressants
 

sjm1582002

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I think it is a matter of which unit was viewed as more dreadful (receivers or olinemen) and which positions the new staff thought they should first address given the available cap money and draft capital.

You are not going to be able to upgrade all that is severely deficient on the offensive side of this team in one offseason.

I see progress being made. I see serious long term problem areas finally getting some much needed attention instead of being ignored.