Debate on best WR duo of all Time? Ike starts the subject matter..

[Corbin]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nOOAS9TY5A

 

[thirteen28]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nOOAS9TY5A

Hey Marcus Spears ... what did Moss and Carter do in the playoffs? Did they make clutch plays to win their team a championship?

 

[Corbin]

Hey Marcus Spears ... what did Moss and Carter do in the playoffs? Did they make clutch plays to win their team a championship?

Dude I had a dozen things I could have told them all that was almost check mate moments.

Best duo of all time? Did Carter and Moss have more overall TD's, Rec, Yards, Wins, and Playoff Appearances than Holt and Bruce?

The very few duo I can see that could rival them might be Taylor and Rice?

 

[Tano]

Dude I had a dozen things I could have told them all that was almost check mate moments.

Best duo of all time? Did Carter and Moss have more overall TD's, Yards, Wins, and Playoff Appearances than Holt and Bruce?

The very few duo I can see that could rival them might be Taylor and Rice?

I think Moss and Carter were a better duo for the short term but Holt and Bruce were a better duo for the long term.

 

[Corbin]

Best 3 WR all time?

Hakim, Holt, Bruce? Wonder if these Bucs actually produced more than them?

Sorry can't find the Cowherd on best 3 wr's on same team all time.

 

[badnews]

Bruce and Holt are the best duo ever, since it's totally subjective and I am a Rams fan.
Marcus Spears undermines his own argument when mentioning the TD numbers Carter and Moss put up as a duo and then pointing out that the Rams also had Faulk and Warner.
If the Vikings had Marshall Faulk, they might have won a SB too, but the WR TD numbers they put up would have been offset significantly by Faulks presence. Also worth noting, neither Bruce nor Holt enjoyed their best individual seasons with Warner throwing to them.

No question Warner was a much better QB than Culpepper was, but hindsight is 20/20. It certainly didn't appear that way in 1998. That year Randall Cunningham (a 3 time all-pro in his own right) was the one throwing to Moss and Carter. Culpepper was drafted 11th overall in 1999, while Warner was bouncing between the grocery store and NFL Europe. Before the Rams would "rally around Kurt Warner", there wasn't an NFL executive or scout who would have chosen Warner over Culpepper.
- which brings me to my next point -Does Warner ever even become the HOFer Kurt fucking Warner if he had started his career throwing to only average WRs? I don't think so. When you watch Warner in 99, you see a guy who has nothing to lose and has total confidence in his recievers. So he just let it rip and with each great play by #80 and #81, his confidence grew. He was certainly more gifted than anyone had recognized- but until he was throwing to WIIIIDE open recievers, nobody had seen anything to suggest he would be a quality pro QB, let alone a great one. He developed into that great QB once he was throwing to 2 HOF caliber targets.

Marcus Spears and Doucheface Magoo chose to highlight statistical success instead of team success, ignoring the plays made by Holt and (especially) Bruce in getting to and winning a Championship.
If they want to frame the discussion in those terms, they should have done their homework!

Isaac Bruce singlehandedly put up arguably the most impressive statistical season by any WR ever in 1995, without Warner, Faulk, Holt or really anybody else to assist him:

"In the Year of the Wide Receiver, 23-year-old Isaac Bruce was the league's best receiving threat. He caught 119 passes for 1,781 yards and 13 touchdowns. His receptions are still the seventh-highest total in NFL history, and his receiving yards are the second-best total in NFL history.

Bruce's season is made even more remarkable by the quality of his teammates. The Rams finished just 22nd in the NFL in scoring, and the quarterback combination of Chris Miller and Mark Rypien was hardly enough to keep defensive coordinators up at night. The Rams also ranked just 21st in the league in rushing (3.7 YPC), meaning Bruce was literally the only weapon on the Rams. In fact, the other four wide receivers on the Rams combined to catch 94 passes for 1,228 yards and nine touchdowns.
Bruce caught 15 passes for 210 yards and a touchdown in a 41-22 defeat against Miami. He caught eight passes for 181 yards and two touchdowns in a 21-18 loss to Indianapolis. He caught nine passes for 173 yards in an embarrassing 44-10 destruction versus San Francisco. Incredibly, the Rams won just three of the nine games in which Bruce topped 100 yards."

As for Holt, his career also speaks for itself:
"No player in NFL history has strung together more 1,300-yard seasons consecutively (six) than Holt. Only Jerry Rice has more consecutive 1,100-yard seasons (nine to eight). He has a Super Bowl ring. He was a member of the revolutionary Greatest Show on Turf. In 11 seasons he went to seven Pro Bowls, made two All-Pro teams and led the league in receiving yards twice. Holt was one of four receivers named to the 2000s All Decade Team, and he’s the only one of that quartet to not be in the Hall despite being a semifinalist the last five years."

I chose to highlight the last sentence in bold because it speaks volumes about how overlooked and underrated they are among the NFLs best recievers of all time. During the Age of the publicity whore WRs, they did themselves no favors by being quiet, professional and controversy-free. Perhaps if Holt had cried about his QB while doing push-ups in his driveway, or if Bruce had simulated showing his ass in the endzone, or named himself "Ochocero", perhaps they would enjoy more recognition today? It certainly didn't help that the Rams had one of the smallest fanbases in sports. The bandwagon grew exponentially during the GSOT but it was mostly populated by fairweather fans whose interest in the team was only brief and superficial.

I have no doubt whatsoever that had Bruce and Holt played for the Cowboys, Packers or Steelers, their place as the best WR tandem ever would be etched in stone.

 

[Merlin]

I hate myself for saying this but Rice/Taylor has to be #1. They carried that offense during a period of ridiculous dominance. My fan ass still hurts from years of those bastids.

Ike/Holt would be #2. Which is still some rarefied air. And it's a shame too because if we had a better front office back then who could handle the success they may have exceeded Rice/Taylor.

Ok gonna go take a hot shower now.

 

[Angry Ram]

RM and CC have the mainstream appeal because they talked a lot and always took the spotlight. Ike and Torry just played ball. I grew up with those guys.

Non Ram duos, probably Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne as the best of all time. They were also champions.

 

[Dxmissile]

Bruce and Holt are the best duo ever, since it's totally subjective and I am a Rams fan.
Marcus Spears undermines his own argument when mentioning the TD numbers Carter and Moss put up as a duo and then pointing out that the Rams also had Faulk and Warner.
If the Vikings had Marshall Faulk, they might have won a SB too, but the WR TD numbers they put up would have been offset significantly by Faulks presence. Also worth noting, neither Bruce nor Holt enjoyed their best individual seasons with Warner throwing to them.

No question Warner was a much better QB than Culpepper was, but hindsight is 20/20. It certainly didn't appear that way in 1998. That year Randall Cunningham (a 3 time all-pro in his own right) was the one throwing to Moss and Carter. Culpepper was drafted 11th overall in 1999, while Warner was bouncing between the grocery store and NFL Europe. Before the Rams would "rally around Kurt Warner", there wasn't an NFL executive or scout who would have chosen Warner over Culpepper.
- which brings me to my next point -Does Warner ever even become the HOFer Kurt fucking Warner if he had started his career throwing to only average WRs? I don't think so. When you watch Warner in 99, you see a guy who has nothing to lose and has total confidence in his recievers. So he just let it rip and with each great play by #80 and #81, his confidence grew. He was certainly more gifted than anyone had recognized- but until he was throwing to WIIIIDE open recievers, nobody had seen anything to suggest he would be a quality pro QB, let alone a great one. He developed into that great QB once he was throwing to 2 HOF caliber targets.

Marcus Spears and Doucheface Magoo chose to highlight statistical success instead of team success, ignoring the plays made by Holt and (especially) Bruce in getting to and winning a Championship.
If they want to frame the discussion in those terms, they should have done their homework!

Isaac Bruce singlehandedly put up arguably the most impressive statistical season by any WR ever in 1995, without Warner, Faulk, Holt or really anybody else to assist him:

"In the Year of the Wide Receiver, 23-year-old Isaac Bruce was the league's best receiving threat. He caught 119 passes for 1,781 yards and 13 touchdowns. His receptions are still the seventh-highest total in NFL history, and his receiving yards are the second-best total in NFL history.

Bruce's season is made even more remarkable by the quality of his teammates. The Rams finished just 22nd in the NFL in scoring, and the quarterback combination of Chris Miller and Mark Rypien was hardly enough to keep defensive coordinators up at night. The Rams also ranked just 21st in the league in rushing (3.7 YPC), meaning Bruce was literally the only weapon on the Rams. In fact, the other four wide receivers on the Rams combined to catch 94 passes for 1,228 yards and nine touchdowns.
Bruce caught 15 passes for 210 yards and a touchdown in a 41-22 defeat against Miami. He caught eight passes for 181 yards and two touchdowns in a 21-18 loss to Indianapolis. He caught nine passes for 173 yards in an embarrassing 44-10 destruction versus San Francisco. Incredibly, the Rams won just three of the nine games in which Bruce topped 100 yards."

As for Holt, his career also speaks for itself:
"No player in NFL history has strung together more 1,300-yard seasons consecutively (six) than Holt. Only Jerry Rice has more consecutive 1,100-yard seasons (nine to eight). He has a Super Bowl ring. He was a member of the revolutionary Greatest Show on Turf. In 11 seasons he went to seven Pro Bowls, made two All-Pro teams and led the league in receiving yards twice. Holt was one of four receivers named to the 2000s All Decade Team, and he’s the only one of that quartet to not be in the Hall despite being a semifinalist the last five years."

I chose to highlight the last sentence in bold because it speaks volumes about how overlooked and underrated they are among the NFLs best recievers of all time. During the Age of the publicity whore WRs, they did themselves no favors by being quiet, professional and controversy-free. Perhaps if Holt had cried about his QB while doing push-ups in his driveway, or if Bruce had simulated showing his ass in the endzone, or named himself "Ochocero", perhaps they would enjoy more recognition today? It certainly didn't help that the Rams had one of the smallest fanbases in sports. The bandwagon grew exponentially during the GSOT but it was mostly populated by fairweather fans whose interest in the team was only brief and superficial.

I have no doubt whatsoever that had Bruce and Holt played for the Cowboys, Packers or Steelers, their place as the best WR tandem ever would be etched in stone.

Got damn I wanna copy and paste this and put this on every sports blog I can. You hit every bullseye on every point. Bruce and Holt are so under appreciated it’s a shame. And they did that without either one of them claiming to be Wr1 that alone makes them special af.

 

[tempests]

You don't realize how eye-popping productive that tandem was until you stop and add it all together.

From 1999-2007, the nine years they played together

Nine different starting QBs
Ten Pro Bowls
14 1000 yard seasons
1435 total catches
21, 310 yards
126 TDs
13 catches, 271 yards, 2 TD in SB XXXIV

0 egos

 

[dieterbrock]

Rice and Taylor? Good grief no.... Could argue that Rice and Clark were a better combo than Rice and Taylor
I obviously put Bruce and Holt #1, but it's tough to compare combos from years gone by before they changed the pass blocking rules.
-Gary Clark & Art Monk were quite a duo on a team that predominantly ran the ball, then throw in Rickey Sanders and it might be the best 3 some
- Duper and Clayton
- Joiner and Jefferson
Monk and Carter were special no doubt, but what a dope Spears is by diminishing the Rams because of Faulk. While not Faulk, the Vikes surely werent working with chopped liver at RB with Robert Smith. During the 3 year hay day of Moss/Carter, Smith rushed for 3723 yards, added another 805 yards in receiving and 20 td's....

 

[CGI_Ram]

RM and CC have the mainstream appeal because they talked a lot and always took the spotlight. Ike and Torry just played ball. I grew up with those guys.

Non Ram duos, probably Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne as the best of all time. They were also champions.

They were great. But as far as great seasons, those two only overlapped 3 times as a dynamic duo. 2004-2006

I’d argue Bruce/Holt overlapped great seasons 6 times. 2000-2006

 

[Merlin]

- Duper and Clayton

Forgot about those two. What could have been for not only them but Marino as well if that team had a real defense.

 

[PARAM]

Of course I (and most Ram fans) would say Bruce/Holt.

For history: (in no particular order)

Bruce/Holt
Swann/Stallworth
Pearson/Hill
Clayton/Duper
Jefferson/Joiner
Joiner/Chandler
Biletnikoff/Branch

I'm sure there are others but that's what I got

 

[SuperMan28]

Bruce-Holt
Harrison-Wayne
Moss-Carter

What a shame I can't add a particular WR-TE duo...

 

[LouisvilleRam]

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald were a pretty good duo

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I hate myself for saying this but Rice/Taylor has to be #1. They carried that offense during a period of ridiculous dominance. My fan ass still hurts from years of those bastids.

Ike/Holt would be #2. Which is still some rarefied air. And it's a shame too because if we had a better front office back then who could handle the success they may have exceeded Rice/Taylor.

Ok gonna go take a hot shower now.

They had Montana and a bunch of good weapons, plus they played on a team that avoided the cap with cash payments. Their teams were loaded. The didn’t carry the team imo. They were part of a team that made it difficult to pick on them.

 

[RamDino]

I have stated this before, but think of how many more receptions, yards, and touchdowns Holt and Bruce would have had if they didn't have to compete with each other. Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver of all time, and John Taylor was very good, but Holt and Bruce were the best tandem, in my opinion (Rice > Bruce... Holt > Taylor).

 

[jap]

When Moss joined the Vikings as a rookie, he opened his big mouth and stated that the only receiver he respected was Chris Carter. Our Isaac Bruce seemed to take that comment personally because every single time the Horns played the Norsemen with Carter-Moss, Isaac always emerged as the best receiver on the field that day. Show some RESPECT, Randy!!!

 

[Flint]

What’s Bruce supposed to say? He just joined 4 if his teammates in the HOF which has to be amazing, and he’s waiting for his partner to join him hopefully. These guys act like Ike was disrespecting Moss and Carter and whoever else, I saw it as giving props to his guys and giving some pub to guys who don’t get enough.
Moss was as gifted as maybe any wr ever but he could also be a headache and, to use his own words, he plays when he wants to. There’s a lot of guys who don’t seem to want the spotlight on them, who would rather let their play do the talking. Guys like Moss and T. O., AB and OBJ, give meaning to the term diva wide receivers, and are great for headlines and clicks, but I bet most people don’t realize what kind of numbers Bruce and Holt put up. I didn’t see any numbers from Stephen A and Spears showing how much better Moss and Carter were, I think I’m open minded enough to grudgingly give respect but on the other hand don’t start yelling like it’s absurd to even think Bruce and Holt should be in the conversation. Which I think was what Ike was after.