Covid 19 thread

[Allen2McVay]

The early 2M projections were based on selling fear to justify the lockdowns.

And for many weeks after all the various mitigation efforts went into high gear, the people that sold us that slice of fear refused to adjust their models, and even when they did, did so very slowly to the point that they were overpredicting death counts by so much that even all the fudging of numbers to boost them couldn't get them anywhere near their apocalyptic predictions. And yet those of us who questioned the glaring mismatch between the predictions and the actual (albeit fudged) data were told that we needed to trust the experts and the science. Yeah, fat lot of good that did.

We really do not see things the same way. Disagree with pretty much everything you post on this topic.

However, I also 'like pizza'. So we will always have that.

 

[thirteen28]

We really do not see things the same way. Disagree with pretty much everything you post on this topic.

However, I also 'like pizza'. So we will always have that.

No problem.

This is America, and I fully support your first amendment right to be wrong about this

 

[-X-]

As to your concerns about Covid data, I’m not gonna take the time to provide a counterpoint to each individual example.

K. Just do this one then.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Shows that 131,000 Covid deaths were people who already had life-ending illnesses like cancer, dementia, and end-stage renal failure. Another 26,000 from heart attacks. Never mind the horrible coding with other alleged “one-off” deaths like homicide, car accident, and whatnot. Just address this one. With an open mind and not some tortured justification of how this is somehow legit.

 

[VegasRam]

The early 2M projections were based on no mitigation.

OK. Fair enough. One question - what kind of fucking idiot would promulgate this kind of scenario?
The worse virus in a 100 years, and no one is going to do anything to fight it?
Obviously, the whole point of that projection/report was to scare people.
No agenda there.
Thank you for your support.

 

[VegasRam]

We really do not see things the same way. Disagree with pretty much everything you post on this topic.

However, I also 'like pizza'. So we will always have that.

In other words, when confronted with facts, the go to is “people are dying, think about others, believe the media, and the government is your friend, and uh..science”
That about cover it?

 

[OldSchool]

In other words, when confronted with facts, the go to is “people are dying, think about others, believe the media, and the government is your friend, and uh..science”
That about cover it?

But only the right science approved by the right sources! Any other science is unacceptable.

 

[Allen2McVay]

In other words, when confronted with facts, the go to is “people are dying, think about others, believe the media, and the government is your friend, and uh..science”
That about cover it?

There are facts on this thread?

 

[XXXIVwin]

K. Just do this one then.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Shows that 131,000 Covid deaths were people who already had life-ending illnesses like cancer, dementia, and end-stage renal failure. Another 26,000 from heart attacks. Never mind the horrible coding with other alleged “one-off” deaths like homicide, car accident, and whatnot. Just address this one. With an open mind and not some tortured justification of how this is somehow legit.

Because even if a person has cancer or dementia or any of the other diseases you mentioned, they might have another couple years or five years or maybe even ten years left. But if a person with a bad disease catches a bad case of Covid and then dies within a few days or a couple weeks, then the coroner can say with confidence that their life ended sooner than it otherwise would have. That's what they refer to as "Death caused by Covid", even though the person might have other serious (even life threatening) co-morbidities.

Most researchers seem to think that, If anything, Covid deaths are significantly under-counted.

Here's a Scientific American article from Oct. 20 (back when we had 'only' 218 K Covid deaths) about this very subject. But if you are determined to put it it in quote marks and call it "Scientific" American, and dismiss it out of hand, well I can't help ya

And yea, I tend to believe the conclusions of this article, seems to make sense and does not have a "tortured justification of how this is somehow legit." And there are dozens of articles like this one, this is certainly not an outlier.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated

President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*

www.scientificamerican.com

And yes, I know you well enough to know that you can come up with a zillion reasons to doubt or discount this article, but I ain't in the mood to burrow down this particular rabbit-hole. Cheers

 

[VegasRam]

I would like to know the age of all the participants in this thread.

 

[XXXIVwin]

And yet we've seen all of those things. You can't refute every one of them, in fact you can't refute most of them, assuming you can refute any of them at all. The Covid data we've been presented by official sources is tainted beyond usefulness, and any honest look at it will reveal the same.

As for the bridge sale line, that's mine and you owe me licensing fees for using it

Can't refute them, or most or any of them? Oh yes indeedy I could! I just have to be in a particularly exasperated mood to write one of my insanely long responses.

For now I'll just refer y'all to the Scientific American post, above. (And yea, that magazine is well respected and doesn't publish unsubstantiated bullshit, sorry if that offends some who prefer a more "anything goes" attitude of "I read something somewhere on social media from someone who says they are a scientist, so I'll roll with that.")

And as for the “I gotta bridge to sell ya” line, I’d pay you the licensing fee except I suspect maybe you weren’t the first to come up with it

 

[Dz1]

I already addressed that, but you thought my words were too fancy. I don’t know how to communicate without words, so you’ll have to painstakingly read it again I’m afraid.

it’s also not 230k. That’s also been addressed. People don’t wreck a motorcycle going 90 and die of Covid. They don’t get shot and die of Covid. They don’t have a heart attack because of Covid. And they don’t die of respiratory disease because of Covid. If they did, then the flu deaths in this Country need to be retallied and ALL the respiratory-related deaths need to be included in the flu death totals. They won’t though, because that also wouldn’t make any sense.

Me? “Scared”? Lol. You don’t know me.

I can only go by the quoted numbers, 240 thousand plus.

 

[Dz1]

I read hundreds of these peer-reviewed journals throughout college and grad school. Hell, I even did one myself. Was never published. Bastards. One of the things I loved doing was dissecting these and exposing how you shouldn't put that much emphasis into the headline. I did that with the effects of BPA in plastics. Should've seen the looks on all the Karen moms in my class lol.

Anyway, here's what I saw in it.

.

So all they did was look up other articles. Hmm, ok.

.

Three "mights" and an "unclear". I conclude this was a one-off. They also mention people are depressed and aren't banging as much during the pandemic. So that's another factor.

My personal favorite:



No original research, no trials, no repetition, nothing. Again, one off.

I don't want to discredit the authors, because I'm sure they are credible folk, being they were able to get published and all. People hardly ever read the whole journal, though. I learned the first thing people do is go to the abstract, and conclusion. Then they go back and find out. Me personally, I like to look at the headline first, conclusion next, then methodology. I usually can tell how much emphasis I can put into it.

Columbia university is the College that has Been put in charge of what to do after a disaster , what needs to be fixed, how to make it better.etc etc. By the Federal Government.

It's done by Professor after Professor, not Students reading paperwork.
.

 

[Dz1]

Well damn son. You maht juss be smart enuff ta debayt one uh dem dare Columbia boys that other feller talked bout. Hooo wee!

Again Columbia was put in charge by the US government to deal with pandemic , disasters. How to fix things.

 

[-X-]

Because even if a person has cancer or dementia or any of the other diseases you mentioned, they might have another couple years or five years or maybe even ten years left. But if a person with a bad disease catches a bad case of Covid and then dies within a few days or a couple weeks, then the coroner can say with confidence that their life ended sooner than it otherwise would have. That's what they refer to as "Death caused by Covid", even though the person might have other serious (even life threatening) co-morbidities.

Excellent. Thank you.

Now tell me why people in this situation, who die of complications from influenza, don’t have “death by influenza” on their death certificates. According to MANY doctors, this is the disparity between Covid and influenza that infuriates them. They’ve never had to give influenza top billing when a terminal patient dies from it, or any advanced stages of it (like pneumonia). For if they did have to do the same thing with influenza, then the influenza deaths in this Country would triple annually.

Think S Korea adds those cases into their totals? Doubtful.

I’m sorry to have roped you into that response, but it’s the only way I can get you to understand my (and their) POV on why these numbers aren’t right. Now, that said, nobody is saying Covid doesn’t kill the immunocompromised, the infirmed, the morbidly obese, those with advanced stages of disease, or even the healthy (if they don’t seek treatment). But we ARE saying that it’s getting too much credit, and it’s being billed as something far more dangerous than it really is.

 

[-X-]

Again Columbia was put in charge by the US government to deal with pandemic , disasters. How to fix things.

Cool, cool. That ranks right up there with the $3M in tax dollars that went to researchers at the University of California at Irvine to fund screen time on video games such as World of Warcraft. According to Sen. Tom Coburn’s report (Wastebook 2010), playing video games helps “organizations collaborate and compete more effectively in the global marketplace”. Wonder if the same dudes who count inflated death numbers are also racking up epic kills on the demons of nether.

 

[kurtfaulk]

And for many weeks after all the various mitigation efforts went into high gear, the people that sold us that slice of fear refused to adjust their models, and even when they did, did so very slowly to the point that they were overpredicting death counts by so much that even all the fudging of numbers to boost them couldn't get them anywhere near their apocalyptic predictions. And yet those of us who questioned the glaring mismatch between the predictions and the actual (albeit fudged) data were told that we needed to trust the experts and the science. Yeah, fat lot of good that did.

hmmm, if you don't pay close attention you could swear that was a post about climate change.

same shit, different smell.

.

 

[kurtfaulk]

In other words, when confronted with facts, the go to is “people are dying, think about others, believe the media, and the government is your friend, and uh..science”
That about cover it?

another climate change worthy post.

.

 

[kurtfaulk]

But only the right science approved by the right sources! Any other science is unacceptable.

damn, did this turn into a climate change thread inside my head?

.

 

[dieterbrock]

K. Just do this one then.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

It's really overwhelming to digest the information in that link.
The disparity between column "All Deaths involving Covid 19" and column "Deaths from all Causes" is mind boggling. Under the guise of "no death is acceptable", the total of covid attributed deaths is just over 9%. While incredibly high, it still means some 81% of deaths (Some 2.2 MILLION people) attributed to other causes.
Again, not justifying or defending any POV in this thread, just a dose of reality to the inevitability of death.

	Covid	All	% to Covid	% of covid by age	% of total by age
under 1	26	13879	0.187%	0.012%	0.566%
1-4 year	16	2598	0.616%	0.007%	0.106%
5-14 year	39	4139	0.942%	0.017%	0.169%
15-24 year	410	26662	1.538%	0.183%	1.087%
25-34 year	1725	54516	3.164%	0.770%	2.223%
35-44 year	4426	76852	5.759%	1.976%	3.134%
45-54 year	11740	140304	8.368%	5.241%	5.722%
55-64 year	28227	321282	8.786%	12.602%	13.102%
65-74 year	48363	486783	9.935%	21.592%	19.851%
75-84 year	59760	592264	10.090%	26.680%	24.153%
85 and up	69252	732901	9.449%	30.918%	29.888%

 

[-X-]

Under the guise of "no death is acceptable", the total of covid attributed deaths is just over 9%. While incredibly high, it still means some 81% of deaths (Some 2.2 MILLION people) attributed to other causes.

Yeah, I brought that up earlier, and nobody seemed to care. You’re 10x more likely to die from anything other than Covid, and while most of it is avoidable, nobody stops doing the thing that ultimately causes their demise. Unhealthy eating, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, undue stress, reckless driving, sloth, smoking, gangbanging, and the list goes on.

No matter. We’re in far more danger from Covid, white supremacy, and climate change. So fire up a fat blunt, get some McDonalds, and wash it down with some tequila before driving to your next cockfight in Tijuana. You only have so much time anyway.