Chargers Qb Strategy And Relating It To Rams

[max]

The Chargers QB strategy back in 2004 is pretty interesting.

First, some background. The Chargers drafted Brees in 2001 at the top of the 2nd round. He was one of those "too short to get drafted in the first round" QBs. Brees was mediocre his first 3 years. And the Chargers finished 4-12 in 2003, so they decided they needed a new QB and worked the deal with the Giants to get Rivers for Eli in the 2004 draft.

Then Brees plays great in 2004 making the pro bowl and the Chargers finished 12-4.

So now Rivers is sitting on the bench for 2 years, 2004 and 2005, and looks a bit like overkill.

But fate helps out the Chargers and Brees wrecks his shoulder in 2005, opening the door for Rivers.

The Chargers dump Brees in March 2006, Rivers starts in 2006, has a great year, helped by a great OL and Tomlinson and Gates. And SD finishes 14-2.

Brees has a great 2006 himself, and the Saints make the playoffs for the first time in 7 years. Then Brees carries the Saints to the SB and becomes a HOF QB.

So what if the Chargers stuck with Brees?

Well they could have ransomed that #1 overall pick for sure. Some food for thought here?

Thinking how this example could relate to the Rams is fascinating.

Like Brees, Bradford is an uncertainty. And like the Chargers, the Rams have an opportunity to draft a QB very high. But unlike the Chargers, the Rams have a lot more money tied up in Bradford than a 2nd round pick like Brees, so they aren't going to keep Sam if they draft a QB at #2. And they aren't going to be able to trade Sam either. They will have to cut him.

If the Rams take a QB at #2, Sam is gone, and there are 4 possible outcomes.

#2 is really good, Bradford is really good.
#2 is really good, Bradford is average or worse.
#2 is average or worse, Bradford is really good.
#2 is average or worse, Bradford is average or worse.

The only case where it pays to draft a QB at #2 is if #2 is really good AND Bradford is average or worse. Otherwise, the outcome will range from bad to really bad for the Rams. Even if they are both great, the Rams would have wasted the value of the #2 pick on a QB when they could have added more talent. And if they both stink, the Rams still wasted the value of the pick. And if Bradford goes on to be really good and #2 average or worse, well you get the idea.

So really, when you break it down, the odds greatly favor sticking with Sam this year. That is, unless you are very sure of two things. That #2 is really good and Bradford is average or worse.

 

[fearsomefour]

Living in SD at the time most fans wanted Brees out of there. Very impatient. The Chargers wanted and drafted Eli and Mr. Entitled refused to play there so they swapped with Rivers....as you said I guess. In my opinion the Chargers caved to fan pressure and sent Brees packing, which they wanted to anyway. Its a good problem to have. But the opinion of the majority of fans and radio idiots in SD was that the success of the team was because of LT and the running game. Couldnt dump Brees quick enough. The Chargers got exceptionally lucky if you ask me.

 

[jrry32]

Living in SD at the time most fans wanted Brees out of there. Very impatient. The Chargers wanted and drafted Eli and Mr. Entitled refused to play there so they swapped with Rivers....as you said I guess. In my opinion the Chargers caved to fan pressure and sent Brees packing, which they wanted to anyway. Its a good problem to have. But the opinion of the majority of fans and radio idiots in SD was that the success of the team was because of LT and the running game. Couldnt dump Brees quick enough. The Chargers got exceptionally lucky if you ask me.

Chargers still lost imo. Rivers has turned into a great QB but Brees is a HOFer with a ring. Something the Chargers don't have.

Still, you're right, they did get lucky. Could have picked a bust. Instead, they had two franchise QBs.

 

[Thordaddy]

OK max give the guy who reminded you of all this some love

 

[fearsomefour]

Chargers still lost imo. Rivers has turned into a great QB but Brees is a HOFer with a ring. Something the Chargers don't have.

Still, you're right, they did get lucky. Could have picked a bust. Instead, they had two franchise QBs.

Yep, like Farve, Rogers, Montana, Young....doesnt happen often.
Brees went to a team with a coach that was a perfect fit and a situation where he could really help put together the offense. That was not going to happen in San Diego with the coaches/FO in place there. Brees is great for sure, but, he would have spent several more years handing off 30 times a game in SD.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Draft some good Olinemen and Sam will be better. It is an easy solution that has been staring Snead and Fisher right in the face and they ignore it. The fans know it. The team has to know it. But the Rams continue to ignore it. Fishers past successes were largely built on a very good Oline. I don't get why he thinks scrap heap Olinemen can be molded to equal what a very talented group of Olinemen can do.

 

[Thordaddy]

Draft some good Olinemen and Sam will be better. It is an easy solution that has been staring Snead and Fisher right in the face and they ignore it. The fans know it. The team has to know it. But the Rams continue to ignore it. Fishers past successes were largely built on a very good Oline. I don't get why he thinks scrap heap Olinemen can be molded to equal what a very talented group of Olinemen can do.

How do you know that is what he thinks?
Take a look at the o-line for the two time SB winning Broncos and the production they yielded for Terrel Davis

 

[moklerman]

I don't think using the Chargers as a model is the best way to go. They've done less with more and got rid of players who then went on to excel too often for my taste. Brees, Sproles, Welker, Jackson...I don't even follow the Chargers but the names they've let go is almost daunting.

 

[Thordaddy]

I don't think using the Chargers as a model is the best way to go. They've done less with more and got rid of players who then went on to excel too often for my taste. Brees, Sproles, Welker, Jackson...I don't even follow the Chargers but the names they've let go is almost daunting.

I agree they are an excellent bad example we need to NOT emulate no matter how strident the interwebz GM's become

 

[iced]

I don't think using the Chargers as a model is the best way to go. They've done less with more and got rid of players who then went on to excel too often for my taste. Brees, Sproles, Welker, Jackson...I don't even follow the Chargers but the names they've let go is almost daunting.

exactly... they could have gotten a better player and perhaps started building toward a dynasty - instead they slowly let the pieces fall away, a 'la the GSOT...

 

[moklerman]

exactly... they could have gotten a better player and perhaps started building toward a dynasty - instead they slowly let the pieces fall away, a 'la the GSOT...

Of course, that does mean that their scouting must have been pretty good. Was it the GM that everyone hated who was coming up with all of these great guys or Marty before he got canned or a scout? That'd be the guy to go get.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

How do you know that is what he thinks?
Take a look at the o-line for the two time SB winning Broncos and the production they yielded for Terrel Davis

Fisher had a good Oline in Tennessee. He has always said that to win you need a good running game. He doesnt seem shy about getting rid of injury plagued players too. Now look at his Oline moves. Wells-old and off an injury, Long- injury history, Barrett Jones-injured, Watkins- fat and lazy, Williams, Smith, and Barksdale-castoffs from other teams. He doesn't seem to take his own mantra of having a good running game too seriously. He didnt have to work too hard to build the Titans line because it was very good when he got it. Maybe he doesn't know how to build a dominant Oline.

BTW the Broncos always ran a zone blocking scheme and were well coached. Plus there were not many teams using that scheme at the time and it was and still is easier to find the smaller athletic types to run it. Bad example. Compare apples to apples.

 

[Thordaddy]

. Bad example. Compare apples to apples.

Actually the example was of a team who had a line bereft of high draft choices which was what you were suggesting was the solution to the problem.
The 1998 Broncos offense had 8 players starting who were drafted 6th round or lower and ONE , 1, UNO first round draft choice Elway.
I'd say ,just guessing, that Fisher operates mindful of the phenomenon that o-line is a place where late bloomers can and do succeed with great regularity so even though a guy may not command a first round grade unless you intend to plug a player in immediately you can and often do pay excessively for maturity when you believe you are paying for talent.

 

[max]

OK max give the guy who reminded you of all this some love

Was that you? I did read something that triggered my OP. Don't remember now. That's what happens when you're over 60. Thanks.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Of course, that does mean that their scouting must have been pretty good. Was it the GM that everyone hated who was coming up with all of these great guys or Marty before he got canned or a scout? That'd be the guy to go get.

I'd have to attribute it to Marty. Turner was the lame duck HC and everyone absolutely hated AJ Smith the GM.
Like Iced said, and I never thought of it before: it's kind of frighteningly like the GSOT, but the good guys got a ring to show for it before the powers that be let it fall to shit.

 

[Thordaddy]

Was that you? I did read something that triggered my OP. Don't remember now. That's what happens when you're over 60. Thanks.

Yeah it was one of my occasional productive contributions .
I say a few words then the real researchers like you and X and jrry take it and get the point across.
FWIW my point was the history of this league is fairly littered with stories of great QB's their original teams gave up on JUST when they were about to pay dividends, only to see them flourish elsewhere ,like IMO many people advocate we do with Sam and that IMO would have similar results.
Worst of all if say Az was to pick him up if we were to cut him,a Warner redux would be unbearable to live with,if we give up on Sam ,I want to be sure he stinks out loud.

 

[fearsomefour]

I'd have to attribute it to Marty. Turner was the lame duck HC and everyone absolutely hated AJ Smith the GM.
Like Iced said, and I never thought of it before: it's kind of frighteningly like the GSOT, but the good guys got a ring to show for it before the powers that be let it fall to shyte.

Because everyone....who is everyone?....hated AJ Smith doesnt mean he was not effective. The press tended not to like him because he was usually short with the press. The fans didnt care for him because he would not make big splashes in FA or pay a lot to keep most players....but, Im sure that was a directive from cheap ownership.

 

[iced]

Because everyone....who is everyone?....hated AJ Smith doesnt mean he was not effective. The press tended not to like him because he was usually short with the press. The fans didnt care for him because he would not make big splashes in FA or pay a lot to keep most players....but, Im sure that was a directive from cheap ownership.

a lot of players didn't like AJ either...

AJ inherited a talented roster and dropped a mortar right smack dab in the middle of the team

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Actually the example was of a team who had a line bereft of high draft choices which was what you were suggesting was the solution to the problem.
The 1998 Broncos offense had 8 players starting who were drafted 6th round or lower and ONE , 1, UNO first round draft choice Elway.
I'd say ,just guessing, that Fisher operates mindful of the phenomenon that o-line is a place where late bloomers can and do succeed with great regularity so even though a guy may not command a first round grade unless you intend to plug a player in immediately you can and often do pay excessively for maturity when you believe you are paying for talent.

Not saying it cannot happen, because it does. But I don't think it is wise to put all of the OLine eggs in one basket. Most often two dominant or nearly dominant players on the line can elevate the play of the entire unit. We saw that this year when Saffold was at guard and Jake was at OLT. Coincidentally both were very high draft choices.

If the Rams want to duplicate that success sooner than later then they would be best served to invest in more instant and proven talent rather than waiting three years to develop some.