Bernie: Rams' problem isn't pressure, it's points

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Alan

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As the title states, this was written by Bernie and if you don't like it why don't you just move on and and forget about the negative Bernie comments. Please.
There are some good stats in here that I found interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_7ea0e485-65e4-5281-b54c-9c474325aab9.html
Understandably, there's been a lot of talk about how the Rams can't handle second-half pressure and are melting down with games on the line.

Well, a couple of things about that.

1. When you turn the ball over too often, it makes your team look jumpy, and rattled, and unable to cope with adversity. Giving the ball away doesn't make you look calm and poised. So what would we expect?

2. This is more about the shaky play of young quarterback Austin Davis, a shortage of impact talent on offense, the lack of a reliable running game and the continuation of the below-average offenses we've seen under head coach Jeff Fisher and offensive coordinator BrianSchottenheimer.

If others want to say this is about pressure, I would agree to an extent — especially as it applies to Davis.

But I say it's more about points.

You have to score more of them to win in this league.

(And yes, the two theories are connected. If you don't do a good job of coping with sudden negativity in games, then you probably aren't going to score as many points.)

Not counting the touchdowns scored by the Rams' defense and the special-teams returners, the Rams offense ranks 30th in the NFL with 149 points from scrimmage, averaging 16.5 per game.

This is the third season of a Fisher-Schottenheimer offense, and the Rams have done no better than rank 22nd in the league in points from scrimmage.

And their highest scoring average from scrimmage is 19 points per game, which occurred last season.

The 2012 Rams averaged 16.3 points from scrimmage, so this year's offense has regressed to the level of Fisher's first team.

With this offense, there's nothing to hang your helmet on.

• What about the running game? That's supposed to be the Fisher-Schotteneimer foundation. This season the Rams are averaging under 4 yards per rushing attempt for the first time in this regime's three seasons. The Rams' average of 3.9 yards per carry ranks 28th in the league. They rank 14th in percentage of runs (43.5) that produce 4+ yards. They have only 23 runs of 10+ yards and only three of 20+ yards.


• The Rams have cranked out a decent total of 10-play (or more) drives, but they don't finish them off as well as you'd like. They've scored 54 points on 10-play drives, which ranks 24th in the NFL.

• What about big plays? Not much. The Rams rank 27th in the NFL in all plays that gain 10+ yards. They're 28th with 26 plays of 20+ yards. And they've had only one quick-strike TD drive (fewer than four plays) this season.

• Overall the Rams are averaging 5.07 yards per play (28th), 310.2 yards per game (30th) and are 29th in offensive efficiency — having come away with points on only 29 percent of their 104 possessions.

The problem is, the Rams don't really do anything particularly well on offense, especially with Davis unable to perform as consistently vibrant as he did earlier in the year.

Defenses have adjusted, the pass protection has been shaky, and the first-time starting QB has regressed. I don't have to give you the numbers; you've seen it.

And the Rams are giving the ball away with alarming consequences. Their 16 turnovers are the 10th-most in the NFL.

What really stings is the magnitude of those turnovers.

According to STATS, LLC the opponents have scored 73 points on Rams' giveaways; that's only two points less than the worst team (Chicago) n the category.

More harmful ... 42 of those 73 points have come on touchdowns directly scored by Rams' opponents on interception or fumble returns.

That's a huge number. Over the past nine seasons, the highest number defensive points surrendered by an offense is 49 ... so the Rams are only one pick-six, or fumble return for a TD from matching that.

The 42 points against the Rams on INT and fumble returns is the highest in the league. You just can't survive so many jailbreak plays.

It's the double whammy. The Rams offense doesn't score enough points for the Rams -- and sets up too many scores for the other team. The worst possible combination, really.

The Rams defense has done an OK job of putting the fire out after giveaways by their offense, so it's not as if the STL defense has collapsed after a non-scoring takeaway against the Rams offense.

This giveaway-related self-destruction is new for the Fisher-coached Rams. The 2012 Rams were hit for only 54 points on giveaways (21 on INT or fumble returns for touchdowns.) The 54 points were the sixth-fewest in the league.

Last year the Rams were burned for 83 giveaway points (ranking 16th in the league.) And 35 of the 83 were on INT or fumble returns for TD.

I don't think the Rams are devoid of poise; after all they are 3-1 this season in games decided by 3 points or fewer. And the STL offense has been decent in converting third-down plays. Those are pressure plays.

The problem is the offense that blows itself up with devastating giveaways, and I don't think any team would remain calm and cool after seeing opponents run back interceptions and scooped fumbles for touchdowns.

Seriously: how many teams really have it in them to overcome an extreme number of shock-and-awe giveaways? Good luck trying to locate one.

The Rams (42) and Jacksonville (35) are the only two NFL offenses that have allowed more than 14 points' worth of defensive scores so far.

Of the 10 teams that have given up more than 13 points in direct defensive scores this season, only three have a winning record.

That's what I meant when I said that any team that gives up more than a couple of defensive scores is in big trouble.

It isn't the reaction to adversity; it's the bad offensive plays that put points on the board for the other team. As we just pointed out, teams that do that more than a couple of times per season have a hard time winning. It isn't a character issue. It's the reality of the math.

Davis has turned the ball over 12 times this season, which is tied for the fourth-highest giveaway count by an NFL player so far ... and six of the 12 giveaways have resulted in a defensive touchdowns. It happened again (twice) at Arizona.

A team can't be reasonably expected to overcome so many INT-fumble touchdown returns.

So now what?

Benching Davis in favor of veteran Shaun Hill is an option.

Or, Fisher can try to take the pressure off Davis by running the ball more, and with increased effectiveness. But as we've explained, the Rams aren't a strong team on the ground.

And despite that, the Rams are passing the ball at a higher frequency than Fisher's first two teams here.

The 2012 Rams passed it on 59 percent of the plays, the 2013 Rams passed it 56 percent of the time, and this year's team is throwing the ball on 59.5 percent of its snaps.

That doesn't seem to make sense. But then again, the Fisher-Schottenheimer offense has never been able to generate and sustain the kind of success that wins a lot of football games.

All you have to do is look at the numbers, with the Rams dragging near the league bottom (in all three seasons) in points from scrimmage.

Except for guard Rodger Saffold, who was drafted by Billy Devaney, the Fisher and GM Les Snead regime is responsible for drafting or signing (as a free agent) every member of the current Rams offense.

In Saffold's case the Rams' current regime re-signed him to a lucrative contract extension.

And Schottenheimer was picked by Fisher to run the Rams offense.

Bottom line: the present Rams' football leadership hasn't been able to put together a good -- or even average -- offense. And that's the No. 1 reason why they continue to lose so many winnable games. This offense conks out too often, with most of the stalling happening in the second half.

So I'm not sure why we would expect that to suddenly change now.
 

SierraRam

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Not a Shotty fan, but I'm sure he'd get a lot less criticism if Sam were running the O.

Credit to the opposing coaches (again) for making the right adjustments. We couldn't run the ball or consistently pressure the QB in the 2nd half.
 

Robocop

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beat me to it Alan. I couldnt copy and paste the article from my phone so i put it up too late. I took Bernie's name out of the title and the article so they wouldnt be biased and skip over a good article
 

fearsomefour

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Either Davis is being fooled by defenses or his going through reads has slowed because it seems he is holding the ball longer and isent able to find the open man as much. Neither is a big surprise given his lack of experience. All the talk of being a ground and pound team has not amounted to much. Some games the team fell behind early and was sort of forced to pass a lot. Finding a balance and maintaining that (along with giving some young O lineman a shot at playing time) should be the focus of the O to me. In reality there is not much of a difference finishing 7-9 or 5-11. I would really like to see if Davis can develop and bounce back and want to see what the "other" O lineman have to offer.
Critical games coming up for Barksdale as well in terms of FA.
 

Boffo97

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beat me to it Alan. I couldnt copy and paste the article from my phone so i put it up too late. I took Bernie's name out of the title and the article so they wouldnt be biased and skip over a good article
It's less that people are biased and more that Bernie's rep sucks for itself. A stopped clock being right twice a day doesn't mean people are wrong to discount it the rest of the time.
 

Mikey Ram

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Yeah, I stopped reading here ...

dum dum dum dum

I found his comment (Bernie's) here enlightening...I would never have come up with that on my own...Of course, I was impressed when my grandson told me that 2 + 2 = 4...
 

BonifayRam

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Critical games coming up for Barksdale as well in terms of FA.

ORT Joe Barksdale looks to finally get a break this next game with DE Derek Wolfe facing him. JB has serious issues in pass protection facing 34 defense where he is a liability when passing.

The real big action & big trial will be over to the other side where OLT Greg Robinson & OLG Rodger Saffold will deal with Terrance Knighton, DeMarcus Ware (8 sacks)& Von Miller(9sacks) crashing in from the blind side.:eek:
 

Robocop

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It's less that people are biased and more that Bernie's rep sucks for itself. A stopped clock being right twice a day doesn't mean people are wrong to discount it the rest of the time.
I understand that. I just didn't want ppl to skip over an informative article
 

Rams43

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As the title states, this was written by Bernie and if you don't like it why don't you just move on and and forget about the negative Bernie comments. Please.
There are some good stats in here that I found interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_7ea0e485-65e4-5281-b54c-9c474325aab9.html
Understandably, there's been a lot of talk about how the Rams can't handle second-half pressure and are melting down with games on the line.

Well, a couple of things about that.

1. When you turn the ball over too often, it makes your team look jumpy, and rattled, and unable to cope with adversity. Giving the ball away doesn't make you look calm and poised. So what would we expect?

2. This is more about the shaky play of young quarterback Austin Davis, a shortage of impact talent on offense, the lack of a reliable running game and the continuation of the below-average offenses we've seen under head coach Jeff Fisher and offensive coordinator BrianSchottenheimer.

If others want to say this is about pressure, I would agree to an extent — especially as it applies to Davis.

But I say it's more about points.

You have to score more of them to win in this league.

(And yes, the two theories are connected. If you don't do a good job of coping with sudden negativity in games, then you probably aren't going to score as many points.)

Not counting the touchdowns scored by the Rams' defense and the special-teams returners, the Rams offense ranks 30th in the NFL with 149 points from scrimmage, averaging 16.5 per game.

This is the third season of a Fisher-Schottenheimer offense, and the Rams have done no better than rank 22nd in the league in points from scrimmage.

And their highest scoring average from scrimmage is 19 points per game, which occurred last season.

The 2012 Rams averaged 16.3 points from scrimmage, so this year's offense has regressed to the level of Fisher's first team.

With this offense, there's nothing to hang your helmet on.

• What about the running game? That's supposed to be the Fisher-Schotteneimer foundation. This season the Rams are averaging under 4 yards per rushing attempt for the first time in this regime's three seasons. The Rams' average of 3.9 yards per carry ranks 28th in the league. They rank 14th in percentage of runs (43.5) that produce 4+ yards. They have only 23 runs of 10+ yards and only three of 20+ yards.


• The Rams have cranked out a decent total of 10-play (or more) drives, but they don't finish them off as well as you'd like. They've scored 54 points on 10-play drives, which ranks 24th in the NFL.

• What about big plays? Not much. The Rams rank 27th in the NFL in all plays that gain 10+ yards. They're 28th with 26 plays of 20+ yards. And they've had only one quick-strike TD drive (fewer than four plays) this season.

• Overall the Rams are averaging 5.07 yards per play (28th), 310.2 yards per game (30th) and are 29th in offensive efficiency — having come away with points on only 29 percent of their 104 possessions.

The problem is, the Rams don't really do anything particularly well on offense, especially with Davis unable to perform as consistently vibrant as he did earlier in the year.

Defenses have adjusted, the pass protection has been shaky, and the first-time starting QB has regressed. I don't have to give you the numbers; you've seen it.

And the Rams are giving the ball away with alarming consequences. Their 16 turnovers are the 10th-most in the NFL.

What really stings is the magnitude of those turnovers.

According to STATS, LLC the opponents have scored 73 points on Rams' giveaways; that's only two points less than the worst team (Chicago) n the category.

More harmful ... 42 of those 73 points have come on touchdowns directly scored by Rams' opponents on interception or fumble returns.

That's a huge number. Over the past nine seasons, the highest number defensive points surrendered by an offense is 49 ... so the Rams are only one pick-six, or fumble return for a TD from matching that.

The 42 points against the Rams on INT and fumble returns is the highest in the league. You just can't survive so many jailbreak plays.

It's the double whammy. The Rams offense doesn't score enough points for the Rams -- and sets up too many scores for the other team. The worst possible combination, really.

The Rams defense has done an OK job of putting the fire out after giveaways by their offense, so it's not as if the STL defense has collapsed after a non-scoring takeaway against the Rams offense.

This giveaway-related self-destruction is new for the Fisher-coached Rams. The 2012 Rams were hit for only 54 points on giveaways (21 on INT or fumble returns for touchdowns.) The 54 points were the sixth-fewest in the league.

Last year the Rams were burned for 83 giveaway points (ranking 16th in the league.) And 35 of the 83 were on INT or fumble returns for TD.

I don't think the Rams are devoid of poise; after all they are 3-1 this season in games decided by 3 points or fewer. And the STL offense has been decent in converting third-down plays. Those are pressure plays.

The problem is the offense that blows itself up with devastating giveaways, and I don't think any team would remain calm and cool after seeing opponents run back interceptions and scooped fumbles for touchdowns.

Seriously: how many teams really have it in them to overcome an extreme number of shock-and-awe giveaways? Good luck trying to locate one.

The Rams (42) and Jacksonville (35) are the only two NFL offenses that have allowed more than 14 points' worth of defensive scores so far.

Of the 10 teams that have given up more than 13 points in direct defensive scores this season, only three have a winning record.

That's what I meant when I said that any team that gives up more than a couple of defensive scores is in big trouble.

It isn't the reaction to adversity; it's the bad offensive plays that put points on the board for the other team. As we just pointed out, teams that do that more than a couple of times per season have a hard time winning. It isn't a character issue. It's the reality of the math.

Davis has turned the ball over 12 times this season, which is tied for the fourth-highest giveaway count by an NFL player so far ... and six of the 12 giveaways have resulted in a defensive touchdowns. It happened again (twice) at Arizona.

A team can't be reasonably expected to overcome so many INT-fumble touchdown returns.

So now what?

Benching Davis in favor of veteran Shaun Hill is an option.

Or, Fisher can try to take the pressure off Davis by running the ball more, and with increased effectiveness. But as we've explained, the Rams aren't a strong team on the ground.

And despite that, the Rams are passing the ball at a higher frequency than Fisher's first two teams here.

The 2012 Rams passed it on 59 percent of the plays, the 2013 Rams passed it 56 percent of the time, and this year's team is throwing the ball on 59.5 percent of its snaps.

That doesn't seem to make sense. But then again, the Fisher-Schottenheimer offense has never been able to generate and sustain the kind of success that wins a lot of football games.

All you have to do is look at the numbers, with the Rams dragging near the league bottom (in all three seasons) in points from scrimmage.

Except for guard Rodger Saffold, who was drafted by Billy Devaney, the Fisher and GM Les Snead regime is responsible for drafting or signing (as a free agent) every member of the current Rams offense.

In Saffold's case the Rams' current regime re-signed him to a lucrative contract extension.

And Schottenheimer was picked by Fisher to run the Rams offense.

Bottom line: the present Rams' football leadership hasn't been able to put together a good -- or even average -- offense. And that's the No. 1 reason why they continue to lose so many winnable games. This offense conks out too often, with most of the stalling happening in the second half.

So I'm not sure why we would expect that to suddenly change now.

Thanks for posting, Alan.

Facts and stats are stubborn things, huh?

My fear is that Kroenke will stick with Fisher through '16. If so, that means we will continue to get these same general results. The occasional dramatic unexpected win mixed with gut wrenching come from ahead losses.

We are simply being outcoached, fellas. Before game prep, mid game adjustments, second half adjustments and particularly 4th quarter adjustments.

Karraker's article this week dovetails with this one of Bernie's. The mid season review of both are absolutely devastating.

And here's a further troubling thought to ponder. Assuming that Fisher survives, he will continue to stock our roster with FA's and draft picks of HIS liking. These will not necessarily be players most preferred by a new "Arians type" HC. This will have the effect of further delaying our hopeful eventual turnaround.

I think the evidence is overwhelming that Fisher is a HC that can get you to an 8-8 record each year, give or take. But he is unlikely to get us to the playoffs annually, much less the promised land.

So Kroenke needs to bite the bullet and eat the final $14 million of Fisher's contract at season's end. The next Arians type HC is out there somewhere. Demoff needs to find him.

Otherwise, Kroenke risks alienating and even losing more of his fan base. And once lost, fans are hard to get back. Just compare our fan interest today to what it was in '99-'04.
 

Alan

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Zaphod missing the point:
Yeah, I stopped reading here ...
That sentence he wrote really didn't have much to do with the info in the article and the article was far from dumb. Of course you only find out what he's really talking about if you read the article. ;)

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way — in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

Who'd have guessed that this was the opening to A Tale of Two Cities. Unless of course you read further. :whistle:
 

dieterbrock

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I dont think the problem is points
I think the problem is lack thereof....
 

Alan

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Rams43 not liking the writing on the wall:
Facts and stats are stubborn things, huh?
+ other stuff.
You made lots of good points 43.

I'd comment further but as I was against hiring Fisher in the first place I'm hardly unbiased about his, IMO, predictable performance. I have pretty much removed myself from the Fisher/Williams/Schotty debate because of that. I'll leave it to the rest of you guys to hash that out. Of course you can guess where I stand when it comes to all three of them :LOL:
 

Zaphod

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I hear you, but statements like that just turn me right off to his writing. And if nothing else, that makes me smile.

Now, I do read about a book every other week, but I've Never read Tale of Two Cities. Just not my cup of team, though it's obviously well sold. I think the biggest PITA brain candy that I've made it through would have to be Seamus Heaney's version of Beowulf.
 

Warner4Prez

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I've said it before, I would not be remorseful if Fisher were gone. I think the three years he's had have shown his plan and to think that anything will change dramatically in year 4 would be a bit foolish. The growth on defense has been encouraging and I give Fisher credit for making the change to GW, but with the talent on that side of the ball it'd be criminal if they didn't start getting results.

Plenty of high picks have gone into the offense, and even more capitol with the signings of Cook and Long. There just hasn't been growth there. And yes Bradford went down, but Davis has been here since 2012, he's had reps and he knows the system. I don't think they've had to dumb anything down or fundamentally change what they want to do on offense to suit him. Fisher just wants to play old school ball control football, and the game has moved on from that.

This defense would be an absolute killer with a competent offense. I think this unit is way more talented than what GW had to work with in New Orleans, and the results are starting to reflect that. If the offense could muster even 21 points a game it would be a whole different story. Spags had the stones to try something different with McDaniels as OC, it backfired on him, but he tried. I hope that at the end of the season, someone tells Fisher he can either try something new on offense, or let him walk from his contract.
 

fearsomefour

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ORT Joe Barksdale looks to finally get a break this next game with DE Derek Wolfe facing him. JB has serious issues in pass protection facing 34 defense where he is a liability when passing.

The real big action & big trial will be over to the other side where OLT Greg Robinson & OLG Rodger Saffold will deal with Terrance Knighton, DeMarcus Ware (8 sacks)& Von Miller(9sacks) crashing in from the blind side.:eek:
Oh yeah should be fun. Good test for GR. Would like to see the Rams run right at them.