Bench Foles? Sure, But That Won’t Solve the Problem

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
Bench Foles? Sure, But That Won’t Solve the Problem
Posted by: Bernie Miklasz

http://www.101sports.com/2015/11/15/bench-foles-sure-but-that-wont-solve-the-problem/

Bench Nick Foles?

Sure. He’s overwhelmed, overmatched, and seemingly gets worse by the throw.

A slight exaggeration, perhaps. But with rare exception, Foles’ performance has deteriorated since he threw three touchdown passes and sculpted a 126.9 passer rating in the Rams’ Oct. 4 upset win at Arizona.

Foles has mostly struggled over his last five games, completing 51.7 percent of his passes with two touchdowns and five interceptions and a 60.2 passer rating.

Foles Failure is certainly a primary factor in the Rams’ 2-3 showing after leaving Arizona with a potential season-changing win.

The most glaring failure is on third down. Over the last five games, Foles has completed 40 percent of this third-down throws with one touchdown, five interceptions and a passer rating of 34.2.

(That’s right: I said 34.2.)

Foles wasn’t the only reason for the Rams’ abhorrent 37-13 loss to the Chicago Bears on Sunday. Left offensive tackle Greg Robinson presented another Jason Smith tribute, getting flagged so many times that the team equipment staff should have put him in a yellow jersey. And as much as I have praised and admired the Rams’ defense this season, the gang was deconstructed by Bears quarterback Jay Cutler, running back Jeremy Langford and tight end Zach Miller.

The Bears hit the Rams defense for more big plays — more home runs if you will — than the Cubs in their NL division conquest of the St. Louis Cardinals. It was just a wreck of a game, with the disappointing Rams drooping to 4-5 on the season.

But Foles was a significant part of the collapse. He completed fewer than 50 percent of his passes (17 for 36), got picked for an interception, sailed passes over (or under) open receivers, and was generally exasperated while tabulating a gruesome 53.0 passer rating.

And as the caretaker of the Rams’ offense, Foles fizzled after the Rams’ authoritative opening drive that ambushed the Bears for a 7-0 lead. On that first march Foles had two completions for 60 yards to set up Todd Gurley’s touchdown run, but passed for only 140 yards the rest of the game.

After that first strike, the Rams and Foles went into a deep funk over their next eight possessions. The numbers are almost unbelievable: 28 offensive snaps, 36 total net yards, two first downs, 40 yards lost in penalties, six punts, and a lost fumble.

Foles was put in some unforgiving third-down situations because of the penalties and the missteps on first and second downs, but he couldn’t pull the Rams out of their inertia.

The Rams offense was so depressing after the first series, I wouldn’t have objected to a decision to yank Foles and go with the No. 2 quarterback Case Keenum. (I can’t believe what I just typed. More on that later.) The Rams required a shakeup, and the somewhat frantic Keenum can at least run around a little, and maybe get a defense scrambling out of position.

Of course Rams coach Jeff Fisher would have none of that.

When asked if he considered making a change, Fisher said: “No. That’s my choice, but no. I’m just going to look at it. We have to play better around him (Foles). I’ll look and see how he played, but he was prepared. He had a great practice this week and he missed a couple of throws and we had a couple of drops. We’ll look at it, but at this point, no.”

The door was left open a bit.

But I’d be surprised if he benched Foles.

Coach Fisher enthusiastically endorsed the trade that sent Sam Bradford and Sam’s left knee to Philadelphia for Foles and the Eagles’ fourth-round draft pick in 2015 and their second-round choice in 2016. And before Foles even played a regular-season game, the Rams gave him a contract extension that could keep him in place through 2017. The deal included $14 million guaranteed.

And Keenum’s own record as an NFL starter offers little stimulation. He has a 2-8 record, 11 touchdowns, eight INTs, three lost fumbles, a 55 percent completion rate and 76.8 passer rating. But a coach of a catatonic offense shouldn’t rule out making a switch for shock-therapy purposes. Keenum was fantastic in his first two NFL starts with Houston, with a passer rating of 118.0 back in 2013. But in his last eight starts, Keenum threw seven TDs and eight picks and had a passer rating of 67.8.

OK, but what if Foles keeps slumping? After leading the Rams to an exciting season-opening win over Seattle, Foles has lost confidence. He isn’t as decisive in his throws. He went into the game having absorbed more pass-rush hits among NFL quarterbacks. Too many dropped passes bring him down even more. The O-line penalties are a joke. Foles is being supervised by a first-year offensive coordinator, Frank Cignetti. So many moving parts. So many malfunctioning parts. There’s little creativity or cohesion.

It’s gotten ugly, and you wonder if it’s possible for Foles to overcome such quarterback-hostile conditions. Other than Gurley and wide receiver Tavon Austin, there’s no electricity in this offense. It starts with yawn-inducing coaching, a shaky offensive line, and (mostly) undependable targets. The Rams were so panicked to add a receiver, they’re trying to revive Wes Welker’s career.

That said, Foles doesn’t receive immunity from criticism. He has to make more impactful plays. There’s too much dinky stuff; Foles has averaged only 5.95 yards per passing attempt over his last five games. When a quarterback goes bad, it’s a sad thing to watch.

Fisher doesn’t see what we see.

“He’s a confident, competitive person,” Fisher said. “He thought, with seven minutes left to go in the game, we were going to put two drives together and score. That’s how he is and it’s real. It’s got some realness to it. It’s not one of those things that you think how someone is supposed to act. I don’t think confidence is an issue with him.”

As for Foles …

“Throughout my career,” he said, “games like this, situations like this, I look back at these moments like, ‘Hey, that was that moment that built character in me. That made me the person I am, that made me the teammate I am.’ Even with teams that have been on, there’s always that moment early on that you look at that moment like, ‘Hey, without that moment, we wouldn’t be the great team we are today.’ So, that’s how you look at moments like this is, ‘Hey, it’s just a character building moment.’ That’s all it is. Now, it’s how you handle these situations from here on if your character’s going to build or if you’ll diminish.”

The Rams have been engaged in sustained, seemingly endless “character building” since Fisher took charge of the program in 2012. But we’re watching the same scenes over and over again. Too many idiotic, undisciplined penalties. Too many draft choices that apparently require seven or eight seasons of developmental time. Drafting an offensive tackle No. 2 overall (Robinson) who is often a liability. And just a seeping, creeping dullness that the Rams can’t break.

The unpleasant truth?

The Rams offense isn’t a priority.

We know that for a couple of reasons, including Cignetti’s in-house promotion to coordinator.

When Fisher needed a new coordinator for his defense, he patched up his damaged relationship with Gregg Williams and rehired Williams before 2014. The Rams defense was off form and easily conquered on Sunday, but it’s still the strength of the team. And hiring Williams — one of the NFL’s best defensive coordinators over the last 15+ years — was attributable to Fisher’s desire for a great defense. It was a smart hire.

But when Brian Schottenheimer left as STL’s offensive coordinator last offseason to take the same post at the college level with Georgia, Fisher didn’t conduct an ambitious national search to recruit a top OC or an emerging creative mind. Fisher’s search began and ended several yards from his own office at Rams Park, when he knocked on the door of his quarterbacks coach and gave Cignetti the OC gig.

That tells us a lot about Fisher’s view of offense.

The other revealing part is Fisher’s lengthy record that isn’t open to interpretation.

The facts are clear.

Fisher’s Tennessee Titans last won a playoff game in 2003. In his last 11 seasons as a head coach (including 2015) his team’s best NFL ranking in most offensive points scored was No. 12, back in 2008. That was also the last time the Titans made the playoffs under Fisher; his offense has finished no better than No. 16 since then. In his first three seasons in St. Louis, the Fisher offense has ranked 28th, 22nd and 23rd. This year, through the first eight games, the Rams were ranked 30th in offensive points scored. Sunday’s 13-point output won’t move them up on the list.

As I wrote earlier, I’d welcome a change at quarterback if Foles continues riding on a downbound train. But we should remember two important things: (1) the alternative isn’t necessarily an upgrade; and (2) without question this is Jeff Fisher’s offense. We can make Foles the fall guy, but that doesn’t address the real problem. Jeff Fisher’s offense has been dragging for years. Pick a quarterback; any will do. That quarterback will be working for the same coach, functioning under the same philosophy, and operating the same system. That’s the reality.

Thanks for reading …

–Bernie
 

HometownBoy

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,527
Name
Aaron
Bernie's back to what he doe best. Misleading titles and sarcasm drenched articles. Can't argue with him though.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
Damnit Bernie...thought my wish was answered.....leading me on...it's too late for that...
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,511
But when Brian Schottenheimer left as STL’s offensive coordinator last offseason to take the same post at the college level with Georgia, Fisher didn’t conduct an ambitious national search to recruit a top OC or an emerging creative mind. Fisher’s search began and ended several yards from his own office at Rams Park, when he knocked on the door of his quarterbacks coach and gave Cignetti the OC gig.

Bernie being Bernie here.

Fish was rumored to be interested in just about every good OC that switched teams this past offseason. Gase ran right to the comfort of John Fox who he knows to be a great head coach. Roman was the one who got away, the one who would have been perfect for this team. But how do we know Fish did not pursue him? Those guys are slotted quickly through phone calls and personal contact. The truth is more likely that Fish did not have the head coaching clout to attract a great OC.

But all that aside you are what your record says you are. And the picture on Fish looks pretty clear, as much as I hate to admit it. The guy cannot hire a strong OC to save his life. He should have canned Schotty and brought in Norv the moment he came available. But the truth is he is not nearly as decisive with the offense as he is the defense. And that, IMO, is going to be his downfall. Really hope I'm wrong here, btw, but that history seems to tell us everything we need to know.
 

DCH

Madman with a box.
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
3,354
Name
Dewey
Not sure I can get behind the "this is just Fisher's offense" piece... if you hit your wide-open WRs consistently, this offense, as currently constructed, can work. The ability to put a ball in the hands of a receiver running in stride is very important, as is the ability to see more than your first read and safety-valve check down.

What I don't get is what the big difference is between Foles vs. Seattle and Foles the past few weeks. Has he gotten happy feet? Is he hearing footsteps when he drops back? Blocking has been better, but his play has gotten worse.
 

HometownBoy

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,527
Name
Aaron
Not sure I can get behind the "this is just Fisher's offense" piece... if you hit your wide-open WRs consistently, this offense, as currently constructed, can work. The ability to put a ball in the hands of a receiver running in stride is very important, as is the ability to see more than your first read and safety-valve check down.

What I don't get is what the big difference is between Foles vs. Seattle and Foles the past few weeks. Has he gotten happy feet? Is he hearing footsteps when he drops back? Blocking has been better, but his play has gotten worse.
This has been Foles' M.O. since he's been in the league, google his scouting report and then google Foles progressions or reads and Chip Kelly and you'll see him harping on the same things, the guy gave up on him and went for somebody who hadn't played a down of real football in almost 2 years.

Fisher ignored all that and brought this guy in. Even if you blame Foles, that blame eventually falls back onto the man who brought him here and that's Jeff Fisher.
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,511
This has been Foles' M.O. since he's been in the league, google his scouting report and then google Foles progressions or reads and Chip Kelly and you'll see him harping on the same things, the guy gave up on him and went for somebody who hadn't played a down of real football in almost 2 years.

Fisher ignored all that and brought this guy in. Even if you blame Foles, that blame eventually falls back onto the man who brought him here and that's Jeff Fisher.

To be fair though Foles never played this poorly, one season was Hall of Fame and the other was very average which is what the Rams were counting on when they extended his contract. What do they attribute his regression to? That is what we don't get to know, and why they might play him longer than any of us would.

Agreed that Fish is responsible but it's hard to blame him for getting rid of a QB who had failed to finish two seasons in a row for a guy who should be average and effective behind a play action attack. The logic was sound at the time IMO.
 

bwdenverram

Legend
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
5,519
Name
BW
This is the perfect storm really. When Foles does make a play either his receivers drop the ball or some stupid penalty kills a would be first down.
But the guy makes throws like he's playing with Paul Bunyan. Stop throwing the ball so damn high man.

Sadly, Austin Davis doesn't seem as bad as I thought.o_O
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,207
Name
Mack
Benching Foles won't help if we don't have a full time OC... Because Cigs is still being a PI in CA searching for that missing girl... I dunno if that's still going on or what, but holy cow... How was he not fired for missing ONE WEEK.

What other team allows a coach to moonlight for anything other than the Reserves?
 

blue4

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
3,126
Name
blue4
Fisher can't be blamed for the trade. I'd have done it from a salary cap standpoint. However, he certainly should share blame for resigning him sight unseen, and he is totally and completely to blame for the state of the team. He's the man in charge. His coaches, his players, his gameplan, his in game decisions.
 

DR RAM

Rams Lifer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
12,111
Name
Rambeau
Just responding to the OP and not anything else.... BS, bench the QB, and please try someone, who wants to compete, win, and not settle for mediocre BS. Try for greatness, try for being average, but don't try to make the Rams look like an embarrassment. Probably, too late now, as I have been on this since game one, yes, a win, but not good enough.

Now, our super young, OL, is decimated, and by God, GRob, got screwed. Every big play by da Burs, was by CHEATING, at the POI. Worst ever, worst ever. Fuck the NFL.... Fuck You, NFL! I feel sorry for Grob. I saw no penalties committed, especially, when you compare game film,,,wait, just compare the Bear's big plays... Yeah, if you watched, paid attention, and knew anything about football.....the Rams got reamed in the butt. Hard.

Blatant bear hugging bullshit, not called on a TD, at the POI, but we get called for fucking everything, even when their guy, just loses valance and falls down? Of course, after a TD we scored, like flag after TD??? Poor GRob, he should be on suicide watch. This game was FIXED. No other explanation, other than the obvious one. WTF?

These are one of my first comments, hours after the game. This sucks, The NFL sucks, Las Vegas sucks, and our hm hm's play, totally sucks. It has turned out attention on the HC. He deserves it, for believing in a lying player.

Develop, and restart, The season is officially over, with our starting QB. Anyone disagree now? There is no moving forward, as a team. cuz the HC, has no credibility left after this, in the fan base, or as a team leader, anyone disagree? Another direction, or our HC loses the team. No further comment needed, by me.
 
Last edited:

fearsomefour

Legend
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
17,147
This has been Foles' M.O. since he's been in the league, google his scouting report and then google Foles progressions or reads and Chip Kelly and you'll see him harping on the same things, the guy gave up on him and went for somebody who hadn't played a down of real football in almost 2 years.

Fisher ignored all that and brought this guy in. Even if you blame Foles, that blame eventually falls back onto the man who brought him here and that's Jeff Fisher.
Amen.
Its why I dissed the trade when it happened. Foles has to be protected in an offense. That may have made sense on paper but not on the field. The extension to me was baffling. The money isn't unreasonable for a starting QB in the NFL. I agree with Bernie that Keenum may not be an upgrade at all. But, comparative to Davis and Hill from last year, sadly, Foles hasn't been an upgrade to the offense either. His biggest attribute a this point is he is not turning the ball over, which is good. The lack of passing success in todays NFL is sort of shocking. 7 TDs in 9 games? Yikes.
 

fearsomefour

Legend
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
17,147
Fisher can't be blamed for the trade. I'd have done it from a salary cap standpoint. However, he certainly should share blame for resigning him sight unseen, and he is totally and completely to blame for the state of the team. He's the man in charge. His coaches, his players, his gameplan, his in game decisions.
Agreed, although, the trade was not great from the get.
Foles had the same issues in Philly. He was protected by scheme and a good running game. Does anyone really think he was that 20 whatever TD and 2 Int guy and that any coach (esp an O minded coach like Chip) would dump him?
I am sure they thought they could protect or develop him to some degree. They still may have some improvement with the O as the season progresses.
I understand the reason for the trade....it makes total sense. I was not a fan of Foles. I would much rather swing that trade for Fitzpatrick like NYJ did. He is not a top level guy but a guy like him can stand in the pocket, find receivers and make some throws.
The extension makes no sense to me either. It really seems like a case of acting out of fear. Fear of getting caught with no QB.
It makes one wonder about Snishers ability to evaluate O talent. They have been very good on the other side of the ball. But, on O....inconsistent.
 

kurtfaulk

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
16,055
.

It will solve my problem, having to watch a qb miss receivers by miles by nfl standards for seemingly the whole season.

.
 

WvuIN02

Starter
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
864
The guy hit the 200 yard mark againt Chicago (exactly 200) for the first time since week 1, thats right...the last 8 games he threw for 200 then a bunch of sub 200 yard games. That is abysmal even by bad standards. Its time for a change, but Bernie is correct in that Fisher has no clue how to cultivate offense (his entire career speaks volumes) nor does he seem to care much.
 

DR RAM

Rams Lifer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
12,111
Name
Rambeau
The guy hit the 200 yard mark againt Chicago (exactly 200) for the first time since week 1, thats right...the last 8 games he threw for 200 then a bunch of sub 200 yard games. That is abysmal even by bad standards. Its time for a change, but Bernie is correct in that Fisher has no clue how to cultivate offense (his entire career speaks volumes) nor does he seem to care much.
I agree with most, but Bernie??? You lost me, and I'm already in an abyss.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
If you want the team to tank having Foles in there is a good idea. Keenum may not be any better, but he may provided a spark. You cannot lose to the Bears at home and be a playoff team. This was one of the games you had to win.