Addressing serious concerns on Rams' line

[News Bot]

Mike Sando
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The St. Louis Rams finished 7-8-1 last season with Robert Turner and Barry Richardson leading their offensive line in most snaps played.

They posted that record with Wayne Hunter and Quinn Ojinnaka combining for nine starts (neither player is on a 90-man roster at present). They posted that record with Shelley Smith and Joe Barksdale combining for eight starts after St. Louis claimed both off waivers during the season.

I think that context is important when considering what our NFL scout, Matt Williamson, had to say about the Rams' current offensive line.

The Rams are young just about everywhere but along their line. Center Scott Wells, left tackle Jake Long, right tackle Rodger Saffold and right guard Harvey Dahl combined to miss 21 regular-season games last season. All but Saffold are coming off surgeries. Losing Turner in free agency hurt the depth, and Rok Watkins' release for being overweight was another blow.

From the Rams' perspective, however, the foursome of Wells, Long, Saffold and Dahl are all healthy entering camp. Wells started the final six games last season. Jones is a rookie the team can develop. And if the team could compete with the group it assembled last season, just about anything seems possible. I'd certainly rather go with Long-Saffold than Saffold-Richardson at the tackle spots.

The Rams have stocked their roster at the skill positions while building a capable defense with few missing pieces. But as we look into the future, it's clear the team needs to draft and otherwise acquire talent for its offensive line. Keeping Saffold, who is entering the final year of his deal, could be an option if he plays well this season. Developing Jones would certainly help. Even then, the team could use a couple interior linemen and another tackle.

And if injuries strike the line hard in 2013, Williamson is right. The depth is a concern, for sure.

 

[Memento]

Yeah, I could definitely see us drafting a guard or tackle in next year's draft. In fact, I'd be shocked if we didn't double-dip at guard in the 2014 draft; Dahl's not getting any younger, and Williams and Smith are free agents after this year.

 

[-X-]

This is the same concern I had last year. It's documented, because apparently I wasn't allowed to have *concerns*. lol. And since lack of depth last year was an initial concern, it became evident it was a problem when the starters went out. Here we are again with that same concern, so let's just all hope and pray that starters don't go down again. Otherwise, this time next year, we'll be rehashing how well the offense did after the O-line starters returned from injury in the 2nd half of the season.

And honestly, what Rams fan WOULDN'T be scared to death about the O-line, considering what's transpired since 2007.

 

[Warner4Prez]

This is the same concern I had last year. It's documented, because apparently I wasn't allowed to have *concerns*. lol. And since lack of depth last year was an initial concern, it became evident it was a problem when the starters went out. Here we are again with that same concern, so let's just all hope and pray that starters don't go down again. Otherwise, this time next year, we'll be rehashing how well the offense did after the O-line starters returned from injury in the 2nd half of the season.

And honestly, what Rams fan WOULDN'T be scared to death about the O-line, considering what's transpired since 2007.

What was our safe word again? Incidents??

I'm banking on Saffold holding it down on the right side, but I'd be lying if I didn't think he was fragile as eggs. Long's plight doesn't concern me as much. I'm really curious to see how they treat B. Jones though. Will he be a swiss army knife a'la Turner or do they focus on dedicating him to one spot? I'd be happy to see him as our C of the future.

It's not a patchwork line right now, there's potential for this to be a good to solid unit, but I don't think they players they have now project to be a working unit say, three years down the line? And that's a bit worrisome to me.

 

[max]

Surprisingly, I am less concerned this year than last year, with the caveat that it's all about reasonable health on the OL. The good teams keep their OL intact and on the field for almost the entire year. The Giants are a case in point. When they won their SBs their starting 5 hardly missed a game all year, if at all.

Of course Jake Long has to stay healthy, ditto Saffold. But I believe Fisher will manage them well. And I believe Saffold will be stressed less at RT.

I feel better with Williams and Smith at LG this year. It's just more settled than last year.

Last year we were hoping a 5th round project with weight and mental concerns would miraculously win the starting LG spot. Dream on.

This year, it feels more like a veteran OL that is calming down to play some serious ball.

 

[CoachO]

I agree that IF the line remains healthy, they SHOULD be one of the strengths of this team. It's a no brainer that the most important UNIT on any football team is the Offensive Line.

But IMO, comparing where this line is now, to where they were AT THIS TIME last year its not even close. Yes, there are concerns about the depth. But lets look at it from a little different perspective. The guys they have in place now, were brought in by THIS coaching staff. They are not guys that were inherited and holdovers from the previous regime.

When you look at the roster of guys, there are only THREE players who was here prior to Fisher and Boudreau. Rodger Saffold, Harvey Dahl and Tim Barnes. That means the other 12 guys were brought in by THIS staff and to a man, are an upgrade over what was here just a year ago.

We are talking about "depth" guys being Shelley Smith, vs. Quinn Ojinnaka. Joe Barksdale vs. Wayne Hunter. We have replaced the likes of (dare I even say his name in here), Jason Smith & Barry Richardson with JAKE LONG!

Barrett Jones or Tony Wragge. Brandon Washington and Ty Nsekhe look like prospects, but again, based on what I have seen so far, appear to be much better than some of the previous "options".

Maybe I am just being a "glass is half full" guy, but I think there are far more positives with this unit than at any time in the recent past. It will be fun to watch next week when the pads are on.

 

[Ramhusker]

Health is always the key and so goes your season. Look for the Rams to use one of those 1st round picks on OL next year. I know it isn't in Fisher's DNA to do so but I think his hand is pretty much forced for the future of the club.

 

[max]

I agree that IF the line remains healthy, they SHOULD be one of the strengths of this team. It's a no brainer that the most important UNIT on any football team is the Offensive Line.

But IMO, comparing where this line is now, to where they were AT THIS TIME last year its not even close. Yes, there are concerns about the depth. But lets look at it from a little different perspective. The guys they have in place now, were brought in by THIS coaching staff. They are not guys that were inherited and holdovers from the previous regime.

When you look at the roster of guys, there are only THREE players who was here prior to Fisher and Boudreau. Rodger Saffold, Harvey Dahl and Tim Barnes. That means the other 12 guys were brought in by THIS staff and to a man, are an upgrade over what was here just a year ago.

We are talking about "depth" guys being Shelley Smith, vs. Quinn Ojinnaka. Joe Barksdale vs. Wayne Hunter. We have replaced the likes of (dare I even say his name in here), Jason Smith & Barry Richardson with JAKE LONG!

Barrett Jones or Tony Wragge. Brandon Washington and Ty Nsekhe look like prospects, but again, based on what I have seen so far, appear to be much better than some of the previous "options".

Maybe I am just being a "glass is half full" guy, but I think there are far more positives with this unit than at any time in the recent past. It will be fun to watch next week when the pads are on.

Well said, O.

And I don't think you're a half full glass. I truly believe you gave an even handed description.

 

[-X-]

I agree that IF the line remains healthy, they SHOULD be one of the strengths of this team. It's a no brainer that the most important UNIT on any football team is the Offensive Line.

But IMO, comparing where this line is now, to where they were AT THIS TIME last year its not even close. Yes, there are concerns about the depth. But lets look at it from a little different perspective. The guys they have in place now, were brought in by THIS coaching staff. They are not guys that were inherited and holdovers from the previous regime.

When you look at the roster of guys, there are only THREE players who was here prior to Fisher and Boudreau. Rodger Saffold, Harvey Dahl and Tim Barnes. That means the other 12 guys were brought in by THIS staff and to a man, are an upgrade over what was here just a year ago.

We are talking about "depth" guys being Shelley Smith, vs. Quinn Ojinnaka. Joe Barksdale vs. Wayne Hunter. We have replaced the likes of (dare I even say his name in here), Jason Smith & Barry Richardson with JAKE LONG!

Barrett Jones or Tony Wragge. Brandon Washington and Ty Nsekhe look like prospects, but again, based on what I have seen so far, appear to be much better than some of the previous "options".

Maybe I am just being a "glass is half full" guy, but I think there are far more positives with this unit than at any time in the recent past. It will be fun to watch next week when the pads are on.

Oh I wasn't trying to compare that line to this one. I was only suggesting that *IF* they can't stay healthy and on the field, then we'll be having the same *discussion*. Namely, that the offense struggled when they were out (and we were playing backups), and that they pulled it together towards the 2nd half of the season once everyone got back.

Individually, there is no comparison.
Long > Saffold
Saffold > Richardson
Me > Ojinnaka

and so on...

I'm just concerned, once again, over how the whole offense and its success hinges on O-line health.

 

[jimitroutboy]

Tim Barnes did well in the Oklahoma drill yesterday. He and Jones seem to fill the same role so I will be watching to see if he gets time at guard.

 

[CoachO]

Tim Barnes did well in the Oklahoma drill yesterday. He and Jones seem to fill the same role so I will be watching to see if he gets time at guard.

With the injury concerns regarding Wells, it wouldn't surprise me at all if BOTH Jones and Barnes make the 53 man roster. In the event Wells does go down for any lengthy time, they will need TWO centers. So why expose either of them?

A lot will depend on the development of Brandon Washington, which could have a direct impact on them keeping a guy like Barnes around.

 

[Angry Ram]

While depth is an issue...the thing that pissed me off is the word twisting on the starters for this year.

You can twist words to make a season appear to be a good one or a bad one, and Matt Williamson (who else) does the latter.

I can do that same twisting w/ any team in any sport...not like it takes an "expert" to do that. Not that Matt Williamson is an "expert".

 

[BonifayRam]

Tim Barnes did well in the Oklahoma drill yesterday. He and Jones seem to fill the same role so I will be watching to see if he gets time at guard.

With the injury concerns regarding Wells, it wouldn't surprise me at all if BOTH Jones and Barnes make the 53 man roster. In the event Wells does go down for any lengthy time, they will need TWO centers. So why expose either of them?

A lot will depend on the development of Brandon Washington, which could have a direct impact on them keeping a guy like Barnes around.

Yes agree with you fully....I fully expect that Tim Barnes like for most of last year ( dressed 15 games) be the primary reserve center. When your 32 yr old center has three surgeries on the same leg(kneex2 & foot) in less than one yr......you better be prepared to have both Barnes & Barrett ready to go!

Barnes real issue is ... he is mostly just a pure center but has played some OLG in college. Barnes must show early he can start @ center & hold his own if not he is expendable. Barnes value as a multi positional back up is very low. Where as Barrett as we know has highly performed off the college charts on a yearly championship SEC teams @ OLT/OLG/OC/ORG. That is something that rarely seen coming out of college now. I am sure Boudreau hopes to utilize Barrett to his OL advantage as the primary reserve to all three OL interior posts this season and then expand more in 2014.

We also agree on Brandon Washington development, Brandon could bring more than Shelley Smith where IMO besides being a back up to both OG posts he could be a legit back up to Saffold @ ORT! Shelley is strictly a 2 post reserve but I fill better about him @ OLG starter than Chris Williams. In my Ram world it would be better for Shelley Smith to secure the OLG post early. Now you have the rest to be the Rams fill ins as this proven brittle OL goes into the regular season.

Reserves basically being Barksdale, Williams, Washington, Jones & Barnes. Having Chris Williams able to assist OT Barksdale is seriously important. CW can also fill in @ a total of four OL posts. I have expressed my lack of faith in Barksdale many times before. Brandon Washington needs to show he is a full right side reliever (ORT & ORG) if he is going to make the master roster. If CW secures the OLG starting post Washington's chances of making the 53 player roster goes up dramatically.

 

[BonifayRam]

Yeah, I could definitely see us drafting a guard or tackle in next year's draft. In fact, I'd be shocked if we didn't double-dip at guard in the 2014 draft; Dahl's not getting any younger, and Williams and Smith are free agents after this year.

I see two OT's being selected in the first two days of the 2014 draft myself. Having Barrett Jones here tones down the needs in the interior of the OL slightly. But If ORT Saffold bolts for free agency & swing OT Joe Barksdale fails ...as I fully expect then two OT's are a desperate need.

But overall the offensive line has been badly neglected in the Snead & Fisher 2012 & 2013 drafts. This could really come home to haunt them once again this season. Its a roll of the dice in these drafts they got lucky with Barrett Jones maybe they can get lucky in 2014 too.

 

[CoachO]

Tim Barnes did well in the Oklahoma drill yesterday. He and Jones seem to fill the same role so I will be watching to see if he gets time at guard.

With the injury concerns regarding Wells, it wouldn't surprise me at all if BOTH Jones and Barnes make the 53 man roster. In the event Wells does go down for any lengthy time, they will need TWO centers. So why expose either of them?

A lot will depend on the development of Brandon Washington, which could have a direct impact on them keeping a guy like Barnes around.

Yes agree with you fully....I fully expect that Tim Barnes like for most of last year ( dressed 15 games) be the primary reserve center. When your 32 yr old center has three surgeries on the same leg(kneex2 & foot) in less than one yr......you better be prepared to have both Barnes & Barrett ready to go!

Barnes real issue is ... he is mostly just a pure center but has played some OLG in college. Barnes must show early he can start @ center & hold his own if not he is expendable. Barnes value as a multi positional back up is very low. Where as Barrett as we know has highly performed off the college charts on a yearly championship SEC teams @ OLT/OLG/OC/ORG. That is something that rarely seen coming out of college now. I am sure Boudreau hopes to utilize Barrett to his OL advantage as the primary reserve to all three OL interior posts this season and then expand more in 2014.

We also agree on Brandon Washington development, Brandon could bring more than Shelley Smith where IMO besides being a back up to both OG posts he could be a legit back up to Saffold @ ORT! Shelley is strictly a 2 post reserve but I fill better about him @ OLG starter than Chris Williams. In my Ram world it would be better for Shelley Smith to secure the OLG post early. Now you have the rest to be the Rams fill ins as this proven brittle OL goes into the regular season.

Reserves basically being Barksdale, Williams, Washington, Jones & Barnes. Having Chris Williams able to assist OT Barksdale is seriously important. CW can also fill in @ a total of four OL posts. I have expressed my lack of faith in Barksdale many times before. Brandon Washington needs to show he is a full right side reliever (ORT & ORG) if he is going to make the master roster. If CW secures the OLG starting post Washington's chances of making the 53 player roster goes up dramatically.

I can see the merits of preferring S. Smith "winning" the starting LG spot, as it does make C. Williams a more valuable backup across the board. That being said, I like the size that Williams brings, and prefer it over the smaller quicker Smith.

I disagree with you regarding Washington being an option at RT. He just doesn't fit the mold physically. At 6'2 and 320, he doesn't have the body or the footwork to play tackle. His game is more of a power, explosion game. To me, he is the guy they hoped Watkins would be from a physical standpoint.

I will also say, that regardless of who wins the LG spot, if and when injuries crop up, they will be versatile enough to be able to move people around depending on what spots need to be filled. Although not optimal, having Dahl, Williams and Jones all having the ability to play tackle, they can find a short time fix from within.

If any long term injuries were to occur, say to Long, I can see Saffold moving back to LT, and Barksdale becoming the RT. (just an example).... IF Saffold goes down, they could move Williams or Dahl to RT, and plug in Smith at G. Again, these are all hypothetical examples of the flexibility they now have that they haven't in the past.

 

[DR RAM]

Well, duh. We need depth at tackle, but we have been constantly working the waiver wire to get guys with potential in here. We have other needs, and we all know that every position has been addressed now. Every position. This was a complete rebuild like none that I've ever seen before, this was no retooling, only a tool would say that.

Our staff chose to bring in veterans to protect Bradford, which was a very good, smart move. Anyone just re-watch the Rok clip that X put together? Sam wouldn't be alive now if we had 3 rookie olineman playing. We've drafted a couple guys for depth, we've been developing guys for a couple years, maybe they pan, maybe they don't, but our staff won't give up. I think the line will be a priority next year in the draft, but don't be surprised if we pick up more guys when cuts are being made.

Boudreau clearly showed that he can hold a line together with spit and glue, just think what he will be able to do with some real talent. I know some of these guys worked real hard in the offseason, and I can't wait to see them in pads. We won't know anything until we see them in pads at full go. We have one of, if not, the best defensive lines in the NFL, and they will make our offensive line better.

This is the smartest staff that I've ever seen assembled from top to bottom, and they have a plan. If a glaring problem presents itself, it will be taken care of.

 

[-X-]

Boudreau clearly showed that he can hold a line together with spit and glue, just think what he will be able to do with some real talent.

My words almost verbatim earlier this year. If we can just catch a goddamn break and let the starters play a full 16 games (similar to 2010), then I think we'll be poised to do big things. With all this talent, all Sammy needs is a little bit of time.

Make it so.

 

[DR RAM]

Boudreau clearly showed that he can hold a line together with spit and glue, just think what he will be able to do with some real talent.

My words almost verbatim earlier this year. If we can just catch a goddamn break and let the starters play a full 16 games (similar to 2010), then I think we'll be poised to do big things. With all this talent, all Sammy needs is a little bit of time.

Make it so.

In regards to Matt Williamson. Words are just words. We can just as easily say that our line consists of 3 Pro bowl players, a pretty darn good left tackle that slid over to the right side, and a high first round pick playing the OLG spot.

 

[Speeps]

I completely disagree with the zero depth comment. Shelly Smith and Barksdale played pretty damn well for us last season when called upon. I know, Barrett Jones haven't played a down in the NFL yet, but based on what I've seen of him in college, the program he comes from, and the toughness he's displayed, he's not slouch.

 

[BonifayRam]

I can see the merits of preferring S. Smith "winning" the starting LG spot, as it does make C. Williams a more valuable backup across the board. That being said, I like the size that Williams brings, and prefer it over the smaller quicker Smith.

Yes the left side size of a 6-7 317 & a 6-6 320 is far more impressive than the lighter shorter Shelley. If we move heavy into the spread & shotgun CW makes better sense on the pass block side of things. CW has been tried several different times in the past as a Bear @ the OLG post but just could not get the job done. The hope is CW has taken to Boudreau's refurbishing class now @ 27 yrs old & the light may have finally came on that if he is going to continue to earn a paycheck in the NFL it must be @ OG not OT. I have watched CW play before last yr and when he made cameo appearances @ ORT he was deplorable but something happen the last two games of the 2012 season to CW. Something wonderful! when he was inserted into Dahl's ORG post. He was a to me the best performing interior OL the Rams had on the field.

I disagree with you regarding Washington being an option at RT. He just doesn't fit the mold physically. At 6'2 and 320, he doesn't have the body or the footwork to play tackle. His game is more of a power, explosion game. To me, he is the guy they hoped Watkins would be from a physical standpoint.

I must have not worded my statement right on Washington. BW is actually just about 6-3 Miami had him @ 6-3 1/4 combine had him 6-2 7/8 ths. Yes he is far more OG than OT. BW play & started some games his first yr @ Miami @ OLG in 2009, he then shifted to the right side on 2010 and started 10 games @ ORG. His Jr yr 2011 he earned the starting Right OT post & played there one game but issues came into play @ OLT & BW was forced to play OLT the remainder of the yr. Things did not go well for him on that left side @ OLT. Your right his footwork is real bad for a OLT & not that good for ORT. BW would not be the preferred option @ ORT but it was my suggesting that if he proved versatile enough to post up @ ORT in an emergency it would serve him well to winning a spot on the 53 player roster.. Cuz I see Boudreau has the 325 pounder 6-8 Ty Nsekhe in @ ORT second OL team up till this point in time he has been strictly OLT.


I will also say, that regardless of who wins the LG spot, if and when injuries crop up, they will be versatile enough to be able to move people around depending on what spots need to be filled. Although not optimal, having Dahl, Williams and Jones all having the ability to play tackle, they can find a short time fix from within.

IF injuries crop up?? By the first half of the first game last yr the Rams had three different starters in three OL positions from when the game started! Back to what happen this past week ....From what I understand Rok was working the right side during the OTA's behind both Dahl & Saffold. Now Brandon Washington is working in the place of where Rok was @ ORG...this is a good spot for him. Barksdale is working behind Long @ OLT.

If any long term injuries were to occur, say to Long, I can see Saffold moving back to LT, and Barksdale becoming the RT. (just an example).... IF Saffold goes down, they could move Williams or Dahl to RT, and plug in Smith at G. Again, these are all hypothetical examples of the flexibility they now have that they haven't in the past.

Versatile & flexible is the key for the reserves no doubt that was what happen in Atlanta in 2008 when Boudreau & Harvey Dahl first met....Harvey Dahl has always been a ORT in college & for the first three yrs in the NFL but a hole opened up @ ORG & Harvey was inserted by Boudreau & became a starter in the NFL from that point on. Last season Boudreau went into the season where his starting ORG was the back up center...Wells goes down & he had to move his starter out of ORG into center & Rok into OLG not good. No good results took place from that plan. This yr one would hope that the back up center is not starting in another post in the OL. Point is IMO it better to leave the starting OL intact & insert than to shift with musical chairs.