A Historical Survey Of Sam Bradford's Receiving Weapons

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Ramifications

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I'm going to recycle a few posts I've written elsewhere, rather than reinvent the wheel.

Being about Bradford, hopefully it doesn't create the cyber equivalent of a scene from the below Star Trek episode...



For the record, below are a few of my thoughts about him as a preface... guess I am glass half full on this position.

1) I think Bradford was off to a career best start in the first seven games of 2013 (could have been even better, but didn't have Stacy the first month, breaking in Austin and Cook, many big plays erased due to drops and penalties).

2) For several reasons (coaching, OL, WRs), IMO he wasn't ideally positioned to succeed in his first few season in the league, inheriting a team recently off a 15-65 half decade span possibly one of the worst ever not just in the NFL but pro sports period (with the Washington Generals?). He has had to deal with TWO first year complete rebuilds in his first four seasons.

3) He has missed about a half season twice in four years in STL, and missed the better part of a season in Oklahoma. He isn't McFadden, but if he gets hurt for an extended period this season, that is going to be a problem, this is a big year for him.

4) Bradford may never be an elite, top 3-5 QB. But I think top 10-12 is realistic, with possibly top 8 or so upside, give or take a spot or so in either direction.

5) The low INT percentage is in general a positive, of course, though it could be a double edged sword and the other side of the same coin, so to speak, if it reflects risk aversion and being TOO careful sometimes. One of his biggest criticisms (nobody is perfect) is his very low Y/A average, which is near the bottom of the league among active starters. Of course, this could be a symptom of sub-standard receiving weapons for much of his career (see below), as well as the aforementioned drops and penalties in 2013. Maybe with the maturation of Austin, the insertion of Bailey into the starting lineup (it took the coaches a month to realize Stacy was the best RB on the team, though some of that may have been readying him to handle pass protection responsibilities - sometimes it seems the team is more willing to throw defensive than offensive players into the mix early, not sure if that speaks to philosophical differences at an OC/DC level, or is a Fisher command decision?), Cook having another year to familiarize himself with the system (draft Watkins?), Bradford can make the jump to a 7.0 Y/A average or better? There have been glimmerings he has it within him. In 2012, he and Givens broke a decades-old record set by Willie Gault with a 50+ yard reception in five consecutive games, but they regressed as a battery and failed to click last season. I would like to see Bradford get his completion percentage to the 63%-64% range, to start.

6) Bradford's leadership has been questioned. Not talking about the yellow journalism-type radio comments recently, but I think by his own admission he prefers to lead by example, and he may be by nature, temperment and inclination, quiet and introverted. I think this came up when Steven Jackson left in the offseason, there was an obvious vacuum of leadership that needed to be filled, and Bradford (or Chris Long?) admitted he almost needed to be coaxed into being a little more vocal as he needed to take on more of a leadership role, and while he hadn't done a lot of that formerly for the Rams (Jackson was comfortable in this role), he was willing if that was needed. I think different personalities can succeed (it is probably good if some players on the team are fiery), and not everybody needs to get in faces. But however he does it, if he hasn't been, maybe he needs to be more forceful in communicating that EVERYBODY needs to elevate their level of play, including less penalties, fewer drops among the receivers, etc. I'm not sure it isn't this way already in the locker room, but during the Lakers "Showtime"-era, players like Magic Johnson used to genuinely hate it and be angry when they lost to teams they thought they should have beat (and that was in an 82 game regular season, plus a few hundred playoff games :) ). I liked that attitude at the time. Sometimes I see other teams, not necessarily the Rams, and in other sports, yukking it up on the sidelines during a blowout loss. You never would have seen Magic Johnson do that, and that was part of his greatness.

7) Bradford is only 26. It would be a shame if some critics got their wish and STL went in another direction in a year or two (I believe Fisher believes in Bradford, but just for arguments sake), and he ends up in ARI and leads them to a Super Bowl (sounds vaguely familiar, but can't quite put my finger on it). He could have upside if he gets a chance to grow with the receiving weapons like Austin, Baily, Cook and Quick/Givens (Watkins???).

8) During his pre-draft process, at his pro day, scouts like Gil Brandt stated that it might have been one of the top two workouts he ever witnessed (I assume Elway was high up on the list?), and in describing his deep accuracy to receivers like TE Jermaine Gresham (keep in mind these workouts are scripted by agent's consultants and are designed to make their clients look good, so they are supposed to do great, nonetheless, even by that criteria and standard, he reportedly STOOD OUT), characterized it as eerie and spooky, like telepathic. While it hasn't been fully realized yet, coming up as a prospect, while not having a howitzer like Stafford in terms of arm strenth, I think he was viewed as having elite arm talent in terms of accuracy.

9) Contract - It is unfortunate that his was the last for a #1 overall pick under the old CBA labor agreement. But it shouldn't come up more often than Finnegan, which is an order of magnitude worse contract. Chris Long is borderline great and Laurinaitis is very good, but I'm not sure they are worth $10 million per year, either, but they are rarely brought up as potential future restructure candidates. I can understand why he doesn't want to rush into a negotiation from a postion of weakness, and would prefer to enter into negotiations with a strong season or two behind him. If that happens, he will be worth the wait. Demoff has done a good job with the salary cap, and we still have room to make moves. Things like the RGIII trade have helped with this, by giving us a lot of young talent with below market value contracts relative to what free agents would cost. SF and SEA are held up as examples of the advantage of cheaper QBs... but Kaepernick and Wilson will have to be paid, too, at some point. SEA is going to have a hard time keeping the band together in the next few years, Thomas and Sherman are due soon, etc. As to drafting, for every second and third rounder like them (or Foles inthe fifth), there are many more examples of QBs that didn't pan out.

10) Some thought the Rams should have just taken RGIII and traded or cut Bradford. While RGIII he did have one of the greatest rookie seasons for the position in league history (very impressive Y/A, low INT percentage, 700+ rushing yards), trade wan't a realistic option with Bradford's salary (and there would have been salary cap repercussions for us?). And cutting a player that could be on the verge of breaking out, and getting the same position doesn't seem like a recipe for improving a team with a lot of holes. By keeping Bradford, they got to add Brockers, Ogletree, Jenkins, Bailey, Stacy and the 1.2 (which could be flipped into more picks plus Robinson or Watkins?). Kind of doubt the unemployed Shanahan would do that trade again today. Fisher stated that he came to the Rams primarily due to Bradford and the 1.2 (looks like he made a good choice avoiding the dumpster fire that is the MIA front office, where he might be reporting to Dawn Aponte). He confirmed that faith by not taking RGIII, and he and Snead have been rewarded for holding true to their original vision of building around Bradford through the good fortune of the trade which has kept on giving, and may continue to do so. Fisher also validated his belief by getting Cook and trading up for Austin, moves he wouldn't have made otherwise. After a career best start in 2013 by Bradford unfortunately truncated, I see no reason for Fisher to deviate from his stated course now?

"At the head of all understanding is realizing what is and what cannot be, and the consoling of what is not in our power to change." - 11th century Jewish philosopher Solomon ibn Gabirol

It has been said by some that Bradford isn't good.

It has also been said on that basis, that because he isn't good, we have no idea how his WRs would do.

But that isn't true. Bradford played with other WRs that are no longer with the team. How many have been great with other QBs?

Another factor not typically discussed, timing is very important between QB and WRs (unlike baseball where you can make a trade and slap a left fielder into the starting lineup the following day)... not only has there been a lack of talent, busted picks, free agents and personnel moves for most of the first few years, but nearly constant injuries and resulting roster turnover and starter churning. h-h-how was he supposed to develop chemisty and timing based on the below?

2010-11 WR Rogue's Gallery (Spagnuolo/Devaney era)

2010 top WRs... Amendola? never cracked 700 yards or 3 TDs in STL (37-412-1 in NE, missed 4 games, his problem in STL... missed 23 games last two seasons with the rams)... Brandon Gibson? never cracked 700 yards or more than 53 receptions in STL, not starting in MIA... Laurent Robinson? never really did anything before or after the 11 TD season as WR3 in DAL, parlayed that into a big contract in JAX (went 24-252-0 in 2012, now out of the league)... Mark Clayton? peaked his second year in BAL, all downhill after that, played seven games COMBINED in 2010-2011, Bradford's first two years (out of the league since)... Danario Alexander? he is actually talented, the problem is, hard for him to go two games in a row without his knee exploding, i think he had at least three ACL reconstructions before even setting foot on an NFL gridiron the first time, and may have had several more since (best year 37-658-7 in ten games last season, 0 games this year, i think he had another ACL tear)... the immortal Mardy Gilyard? whopping 8-78-0... TOTAL, in his career, played one year in STL, bounced around as a ST, could be out of the league (like Chris Givens two years later, top pick of round four, #99, two picks before TB Mike Williams, who wouldn't have fit ex-HC Steve Spagnuolo's "four pillars" philosphy - no way would he have drafted a player like LB Alec Ogletree).

2011 top WRs... Brandon "Matrix" Lloyd? talented WR, but acquired by the rams in a trade towards end of his career for a (what would turn out to be a wasted) conditional sixth that turned into a fifth, where he only played for part of one season (10 starts, went 51-683-5, would have projected to about 80-1,100-8... went to NE, where he went 74-911-4, the yardage in his last year was symbolic, despite being 32, reportedly retired)... next leading WRs Gibson and Alexander were already covered above, each had 431 yards and a combined 3 TDs... Austin Pettis? he is a nice guy, good hands and blocker, big body in the red zone, but a plodder, one of the least explosive starting WRs in the NFL (this will be a career season, currently 29-308-4)... Mike "MSW" Sims-Walker? best years were second and third in JAX, combined 106-1,431-14 (only four games and three starts in STL... 11-139-0, he was a free agent dropped after the lloyd trade, played two more games as a prodigal WR in JAX, not heard from since)... Amendola and Clayton also already covered above (combined three games and two starts, for 8-71-0), i think they had torn ACLs, as did wasted 2008 high second rounder Donnie Avery, from NFL WR factory houston (another off-the-beaten-path, risky pick partly based on measureables, like Quick - in Avery's case, because of his speed... as in the case with Quick and Jeffery discussed below, they passed on a superior prospect from a higher profile college with less level of competition concerns in DeSean Jackson, who went exactly 16 picks and a half round later) the year before, in the 2010 pre-season. he was released in sept of 2011, and in fact his career in STL never overlapped with Bradford.

2012-13 Glimmerings of Hope (Fisher/Snead era)

2012 top WRs... Brian Quick was the top pick of day two in the 2012 draft... despite needing an immediate infusion of talent, the rams took a known raw project that so far has a Jerome Simpson-like career arc, passing on the vastly more pro-ready, emerging star Alshon Jeffery, who went exactly 12 picks later... credited with four starts (of a possible 26 games), he passes the eyeball test as far as being big, strong, fast and athletic in the mold of Terrell Owens... unfortunately, he has still struggled with learning the offense and assignments nearly two full seasons into his career, and we really don't even know nearing his third season whether he has what it takes to be a future starter, or will always be a perennial tease based on "potential" and "upside" (if they had Jeffery and Austin, doubt they would contemplate taking consensus top two WRs from the class of '14, Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans)... his career totals are 27-442-4 (in a breakout soph campaign, Jeffery 70-1,109-5 in just 12 games and 10 starts)... some will say Quick is held back because Bradford "sucks"... he has the body to be a perfect complement to Givens and the admittedly smurfish Austin... some evident problems have been not looking for passes and having Bradford clang the ball off his backside, or on contested deep passes, standing around sheepishly like a passive, apathetic victim of a street mugging... when it is a COACHES DECISION to sit him, hard to blame Bradford for his lack of development (on the front office for drafting him, positional coaches for the glacial pace of "coaching up" and/or Quick himself, for possible lack of professionalism, a red flag to still goof assignments and responsibilities well into his second year)... as to Givens, it is early, far too early to make sweeping long term projections, played better last year (broke NFL record by Willie Gault that stood for nearly three decades with a 50+ yard reception in five straight games, belying the old canard routinely trotted out by Bradford detractors that he "doesn't throw a good deep ball", incidentally), not as well in a soph slump season, but it is tough to evaluate with Bradford missing nearly half the games played so far... if he was starring, they again might not think about adding Watkins or Evans, though unlike with Quick, he isn't a big WR (Watkins, and even more so Evans, would make better complements to Austin and Givens size-wise).

2013 top WRs... represents a new dawn in the Rams WR saga, as eighth overall pick Tavon Austin is the first STL first round pick at WR/TE since Torry Holt in 1999, and has already flashed in a recent two game stretch against IND and CHI with four TDs of 50+ yards previously only done by legendary hall of famers Gale Sayers and Jim Brown... Stedman Bailey will play at least a key role going forward with the talent to eventually start... free agent TE Jared Cook was signed to one of the richest contracts for his position in league history, and while he hasn't recaptured his game one magic, Bradford has been out nearly half the games played (also complicating Givens evaluation, as noted above) and he is quietly on target to break the franchise receiving records for TE.

2010 - 2013 Rams Receiving Stats
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2010.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2011.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2012.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2013.htm

*
We should send this to Bernie for the recent whiplash-inducing, switchey changey article about drafting a rookie QB in the first... ;^)
 
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Tron

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If not for his contract, most of the Bradford bashing would not be around. Not his fault as we all know. Give Bradford Watkins to complete our WR set and let him light it up.
 

mr.stlouis

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^Bradford is worth every penny when healthy. I guess that's the catch-20, isn't it?

Quick better pick it up, which includes knowing the hot reads.
 

Tron

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^Bradford is worth every penny when healthy. I guess that's the catch-20, isn't it?

Quick better pick it up, which includes knowing the hot reads.

I think our WR's will be much better this year. Austin and Bailey will have more touches and better know the offense. Quick will be in his 3rd year, and although he hasn't been as good as we all have wanted, he still has progressed from the ultra raw WR he was is first year. Givens had a down year, thats for sure, but hopefully it was just a sophomore slump. If those guys can improve, it will be amazing.
 

chefRAMzy

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I hate how people compare quick to Jeffrey. Jeffrey has Marshall to learn from and an oc Tht let's cutler sling it. Of course his numbers are better but u think Jeffrey's would've been a pro bowler without Marshall. Just like how Aaron Rodgers sat for a couple of years and had farvre show him the ropes. Instead of drafting a rookie wr I think a veteran will help develop the talented group we already have.
 

Ramifications

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I hate how people compare quick to Jeffrey. Jeffrey has Marshall to learn from and an oc Tht let's cutler sling it. Of course his numbers are better but u think Jeffrey's would've been a pro bowler without Marshall. Just like how Aaron Rodgers sat for a couple of years and had farvre show him the ropes. Instead of drafting a rookie wr I think a veteran will help develop the talented group we already have.

IMO, Jeffery was more developed his last year in college than Quick is entering his third year in the NFL. It has to do with coaching and level of competition in college. Jeffery went to the same school as Sterling Sharpe. To my knowledge, there has never been a successful WR come from Appalachian State (probably Dexter Coakley the best player at any position). He was a raw project like Jerome Simpson, and he didn't do anything until about two and a half years into his career. Maybe this will be his season. But the Rams erred in that they needed help immediately, not in 3-4 years. Reuben Randle also had a higher grade and was from a big time program (LSU), and would have been a better pick.

This isn't just hindsight, people were saying this in April of 2012.
 

chefRAMzy

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I understand he came from a small school but some of the Greats did too. I'm not saying he's a T.O or the GOAT but dude is progressing yea it may be slow but drafting him knowing he's a project was a risk. Vincent Jackson didn't bloom till his 3rd-4th season. And jefferey had many concerns also when he came out his work ethics, his conditioning and all the on the field issue he had, maybe Marshall straighten him out idk but I'm just sayin that quick gets hammered too much. Dude is progressing each year what more can u ask for a guy that has pettis to learn from.
 
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Ramifications

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I understand he came from a small school but some of the Greats did too. I'm not saying he's a T.O or the GOAT but dude is progressing yea it may be slow but drafting him knowing he's a project was a risk. Vincent Jackson didn't bloom till his 3rd-4th season. And jefferey had many concerns also when he came out his work ethics, his conditioning and all the off the field issues he had, maybe Marshall straighten him out idk but I'm just sayin that quick gets hammered too much. Dude is progressing each year what more can u ask for a guy that has pettis to learn from.

I hear you. I just don't think he is what they needed at the time, and that has kind of been borne out. My only question about Jeffery was his speed, and h answered that when he ran a 4.4 at his pro day. I'm rooting for him, the several years of development are a sunk cost at this point, if the light goes on for him, he could be TO 2.0.
 

chefRAMzy

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I was all aboard the quick train when I was watching the draft and I still am. I knew he wasn't gonna come out and kill it like megatron but with a name like quick I had hopes haha. My only question would be do you think Jeffrey would be the player he is without Marshall ?
 

Tron

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My only question would be do you think Jeffrey would be the player he is without Marshall ?

No doubt that he would not. His numbers would not be close to what they were this last year. But they would be better than Quicks. I am not saying he would have had a 1000 yard season even. I'd say that his first year would have been somewhere between Quicks 1st and 2nd year. And this past year he woulda had 700+ yards if he was a Ram probably. He is a lot further a long than Quick is, and he was coming out of college as well. I still have hope for Quick, and have said it before that i did not expect him to make a big impact until year 3 or 4. It sucks waiting and just having hope to hold onto as he develops, but that is all we can do, and i continue to do it.
 

-X-

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I'm going to recycle a few posts I've written elsewhere, rather than reinvent the wheel.

Being about Bradford, hopefully it doesn't create the cyber equivalent of a scene from the below Star Trek episode...



For the record, below are a few of my thoughts about him as a preface... guess I am glass half full on this position.

1) I think Bradford was off to a career best start in the first seven games of 2013 (could have been even better, but didn't have Stacy the first month, breaking in Austin and Cook, many big plays erased due to drops and penalties).

2) For several reasons (coaching, OL, WRs), IMO he wasn't ideally positioned to succeed in his first few season in the league, inheriting a team recently off a 15-65 half decade span possibly one of the worst ever not just in the NFL but pro sports period (with the Washington Generals?). He has had to deal with TWO first year complete rebuilds in his first four seasons.

3) He has missed about a half season twice in four years in STL, and missed the better part of a season in Oklahoma. He isn't McFadden, but if he gets hurt for an extended period this season, that is going to be a problem, this is a big year for him.

4) Bradford may never be an elite, top 3-5 QB. But I think top 10-12 is realistic, with possibly top 8 or so upside, give or take a spot or so in either direction.

5) The low INT percentage is in general a positive, of course, though it could be a double edged sword and the other side of the same coin, so to speak, if it reflects risk aversion and being TOO careful sometimes. One of his biggest criticisms (nobody is perfect) is his very low Y/A average, which is near the bottom of the league among active starters. Of course, this could be a symptom of sub-standard receiving weapons for much of his career (see below), as well as the aforementioned drops and penalties in 2013. Maybe with the maturation of Austin, the insertion of Bailey into the starting lineup (it took the coaches a month to realize Stacy was the best RB on the team, though some of that may have been readying him to handle pass protection responsibilities - sometimes it seems the team is more willing to throw defensive than offensive players into the mix early, not sure if that speaks to philosophical differences at an OC/DC level, or is a Fisher command decision?), Cook having another year to familiarize himself with the system (draft Watkins?), Bradford can make the jump to a 7.0 Y/A average or better? There have been glimmerings he has it within him. In 2012, he and Givens broke a decades-old record set by Willie Gault with a 50+ yard reception in five consecutive games, but they regressed as a battery and failed to click last season. I would like to see Bradford get his completion percentage to the 63%-64% range, to start.

6) Bradford's leadership has been questioned. Not talking about the yellow journalism-type radio comments recently, but I think by his own admission he prefers to lead by example, and he may be by nature, temperment and inclination, quiet and introverted. I think this came up when Steven Jackson left in the offseason, there was an obvious vacuum of leadership that needed to be filled, and Bradford (or Chris Long?) admitted he almost needed to be coaxed into being a little more vocal as he needed to take on more of a leadership role, and while he hadn't done a lot of that formerly for the Rams (Jackson was comfortable in this role), he was willing if that was needed. I think different personalities can succeed (it is probably good if some players on the team are fiery), and not everybody needs to get in faces. But however he does it, if he hasn't been, maybe he needs to be more forceful in communicating that EVERYBODY needs to elevate their level of play, including less penalties, fewer drops among the receivers, etc. I'm not sure it isn't this way already in the locker room, but during the Lakers "Showtime"-era, players like Magic Johnson used to genuinely hate it and be angry when they lost to teams they thought they should have beat (and that was in an 82 game regular season, plus a few hundred playoff games :) ). I liked that attitude at the time. Sometimes I see other teams, not necessarily the Rams, and in other sports, yukking it up on the sidelines during a blowout loss. You never would have seen Magic Johnson do that, and that was part of his greatness.

7) Bradford is only 26. It would be a shame if some critics got their wish and STL went in another direction in a year or two (I believe Fisher believes in Bradford, but just for arguments sake), and he ends up in ARI and leads them to a Super Bowl (sounds vaguely familiar, but can't quite put my finger on it). He could have upside if he gets a chance to grow with the receiving weapons like Austin, Baily, Cook and Quick/Givens (Watkins???).

8) During his pre-draft process, at his pro day, scouts like Gil Brandt stated that it might have been one of the top two workouts he ever witnessed (I assume Elway was high up on the list?), and in describing his deep accuracy to receivers like TE Jermaine Gresham (keep in mind these workouts are scripted by agent's consultants and are designed to make their clients look good, so they are supposed to do great, nonetheless, even by that criteria and standard, he reportedly STOOD OUT), characterized it as eerie and spooky, like telepathic. While it hasn't been fully realized yet, coming up as a prospect, while not having a howitzer like Stafford in terms of arm strenth, I think he was viewed as having elite arm talent in terms of accuracy.

9) Contract - It is unfortunate that his was the last for a #1 overall pick under the old CBA labor agreement. But it shouldn't come up more often than Finnegan, which is an order of magnitude worse contract. Chris Long is borderline great and Laurinaitis is very good, but I'm not sure they are worth $10 million per year, either, but they are rarely brought up as potential future restructure candidates. I can understand why he doesn't want to rush into a negotiation from a postion of weakness, and would prefer to enter into negotiations with a strong season or two behind him. If that happens, he will be worth the wait. Demoff has done a good job with the salary cap, and we still have room to make moves. Things like the RGIII trade have helped with this, by giving us a lot of young talent with below market value contracts relative to what free agents would cost. SF and SEA are held up as examples of the advantage of cheaper QBs... but Kaepernick and Wilson will have to be paid, too, at some point. SEA is going to have a hard time keeping the band together in the next few years, Thomas and Sherman are due soon, etc. As to drafting, for every second and third rounder like them (or Foles inthe fifth), there are many more examples of QBs that didn't pan out.

10) Some thought the Rams should have just taken RGIII and traded or cut Bradford. While RGIII he did have one of the greatest rookie seasons for the position in league history (very impressive Y/A, low INT percentage, 700+ rushing yards), trade wan't a realistic option with Bradford's salary (and there would have been salary cap repercussions for us?). And cutting a player that could be on the verge of breaking out, and getting the same position doesn't seem like a recipe for improving a team with a lot of holes. By keeping Bradford, they got to add Brockers, Ogletree, Jenkins, Bailey, Stacy and the 1.2 (which could be flipped into more picks plus Robinson or Watkins?). Kind of doubt the unemployed Shanahan would do that trade again today. Fisher stated that he came to the Rams primarily due to Bradford and the 1.2 (looks like he made a good choice avoiding the dumpster fire that is the MIA front office, where he might be reporting to Dawn Aponte). He confirmed that faith by not taking RGIII, and he and Snead have been rewarded for holding true to their original vision of building around Bradford through the good fortune of the trade which has kept on giving, and may continue to do so. Fisher also validated his belief by getting Cook and trading up for Austin, moves he wouldn't have made otherwise. After a career best start in 2013 by Bradford unfortunately truncated, I see no reason for Fisher to deviate from his stated course now?

"At the head of all understanding is realizing what is and what cannot be, and the consoling of what is not in our power to change." - 11th century Jewish philosopher Solomon ibn Gabirol

It has been said by some that Bradford isn't good.

It has also been said on that basis, that because he isn't good, we have no idea how his WRs would do.

But that isn't true. Bradford played with other WRs that are no longer with the team. How many have been great with other QBs?

Another factor not typically discussed, timing is very important between QB and WRs (unlike baseball where you can make a trade and slap a left fielder into the starting lineup the following day)... not only has there been a lack of talent, busted picks, free agents and personnel moves for most of the first few years, but nearly constant injuries and resulting roster turnover and starter churning. h-h-how was he supposed to develop chemisty and timing based on the below?

2010-11 WR Rogue's Gallery (Spagnuolo/Devaney era)

2010 top WRs... Amendola? never cracked 700 yards or 3 TDs in STL (37-412-1 in NE, missed 4 games, his problem in STL... missed 23 games last two seasons with the rams)... Brandon Gibson? never cracked 700 yards or more than 53 receptions in STL, not starting in MIA... Laurent Robinson? never really did anything before or after the 11 TD season as WR3 in DAL, parlayed that into a big contract in JAX (went 24-252-0 in 2012, now out of the league)... Mark Clayton? peaked his second year in BAL, all downhill after that, played seven games COMBINED in 2010-2011, Bradford's first two years (out of the league since)... Danario Alexander? he is actually talented, the problem is, hard for him to go two games in a row without his knee exploding, i think he had at least three ACL reconstructions before even setting foot on an NFL gridiron the first time, and may have had several more since (best year 37-658-7 in ten games last season, 0 games this year, i think he had another ACL tear)... the immortal Mardy Gilyard? whopping 8-78-0... TOTAL, in his career, played one year in STL, bounced around as a ST, could be out of the league (like Chris Givens two years later, top pick of round four, #99, two picks before TB Mike Williams, who wouldn't have fit ex-HC Steve Spagnuolo's "four pillars" philosphy - no way would he have drafted a player like LB Alec Ogletree).

2011 top WRs... Brandon "Matrix" Lloyd? talented WR, but acquired by the rams in a trade towards end of his career for a (what would turn out to be a wasted) conditional sixth that turned into a fifth, where he only played for part of one season (10 starts, went 51-683-5, would have projected to about 80-1,100-8... went to NE, where he went 74-911-4, the yardage in his last year was symbolic, despite being 32, reportedly retired)... next leading WRs Gibson and Alexander were already covered above, each had 431 yards and a combined 3 TDs... Austin Pettis? he is a nice guy, good hands and blocker, big body in the red zone, but a plodder, one of the least explosive starting WRs in the NFL (this will be a career season, currently 29-308-4)... Mike "MSW" Sims-Walker? best years were second and third in JAX, combined 106-1,431-14 (only four games and three starts in STL... 11-139-0, he was a free agent dropped after the lloyd trade, played two more games as a prodigal WR in JAX, not heard from since)... Amendola and Clayton also already covered above (combined three games and two starts, for 8-71-0), i think they had torn ACLs, as did wasted 2008 high second rounder Donnie Avery, from NFL WR factory houston (another off-the-beaten-path, risky pick partly based on measureables, like Quick - in Avery's case, because of his speed... as in the case with Quick and Jeffery discussed below, they passed on a superior prospect from a higher profile college with less level of competition concerns in DeSean Jackson, who went exactly 16 picks and a half round later) the year before, in the 2010 pre-season. he was released in sept of 2011, and in fact his career in STL never overlapped with Bradford.

2012-13 Glimmerings of Hope (Fisher/Snead era)

2012 top WRs... Brian Quick was the top pick of day two in the 2012 draft... despite needing an immediate infusion of talent, the rams took a known raw project that so far has a Jerome Simpson-like career arc, passing on the vastly more pro-ready, emerging star Alshon Jeffery, who went exactly 12 picks later... credited with four starts (of a possible 26 games), he passes the eyeball test as far as being big, strong, fast and athletic in the mold of Terrell Owens... unfortunately, he has still struggled with learning the offense and assignments nearly two full seasons into his career, and we really don't even know nearing his third season whether he has what it takes to be a future starter, or will always be a perennial tease based on "potential" and "upside" (if they had Jeffery and Austin, doubt they would contemplate taking consensus top two WRs from the class of '14, Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans)... his career totals are 27-442-4 (in a breakout soph campaign, Jeffery 70-1,109-5 in just 12 games and 10 starts)... some will say Quick is held back because Bradford "sucks"... he has the body to be a perfect complement to Givens and the admittedly smurfish Austin... some evident problems have been not looking for passes and having Bradford clang the ball off his backside, or on contested deep passes, standing around sheepishly like a passive, apathetic victim of a street mugging... when it is a COACHES DECISION to sit him, hard to blame Bradford for his lack of development (on the front office for drafting him, positional coaches for the glacial pace of "coaching up" and/or Quick himself, for possible lack of professionalism, a red flag to still goof assignments and responsibilities well into his second year)... as to Givens, it is early, far too early to make sweeping long term projections, played better last year (broke NFL record by Willie Gault that stood for nearly three decades with a 50+ yard reception in five straight games, belying the old canard routinely trotted out by Bradford detractors that he "doesn't throw a good deep ball", incidentally), not as well in a soph slump season, but it is tough to evaluate with Bradford missing nearly half the games played so far... if he was starring, they again might not think about adding Watkins or Evans, though unlike with Quick, he isn't a big WR (Watkins, and even more so Evans, would make better complements to Austin and Givens size-wise).

2013 top WRs... represents a new dawn in the Rams WR saga, as eighth overall pick Tavon Austin is the first STL first round pick at WR/TE since Torry Holt in 1999, and has already flashed in a recent two game stretch against IND and CHI with four TDs of 50+ yards previously only done by legendary hall of famers Gale Sayers and Jim Brown... Stedman Bailey will play at least a key role going forward with the talent to eventually start... free agent TE Jared Cook was signed to one of the richest contracts for his position in league history, and while he hasn't recaptured his game one magic, Bradford has been out nearly half the games played (also complicating Givens evaluation, as noted above) and he is quietly on target to break the franchise receiving records for TE.

2010 - 2013 Rams Receiving Stats
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2010.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2011.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2012.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2013.htm

*
We should send this to Bernie for the recent whiplash-inducing, switchey changey article about drafting a rookie QB in the first... ;^)

That's about as complete a summary as one could make about Bradford's receiving targets over the course of his career thus far. I've made similar posts in the past outlining the same situations, but they didn't travel well outside of this forum. At one point it degenerated down to an argument about Marc Clayton in Miami and Dan Marino. People will go to great lengths to discount a view that doesn't mesh with their own, even if it flies in the face of relevant facts. And 9 times out of 10, they'll stray very far from the original point and make outlandish comparisons in order to discount your general theory entirely. Which is, gathering from your post, that QBs are oftentimes a reflection of their support. Good or bad, that's just how it is. Very rarely will you get a QB who can transcend all the turmoil and make the best of a bad situation. But that's not something teams should rely on happening very often. It's far more practical to find a good QB and give said QB just a few things he needs in order to succeed. Namely, an O-line and at least ONE go-to receiver.

This was recorded very early into the 2012 season.

 
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That's about as complete a summary as one could make about Bradford's receiving targets over the course of his career thus far. I've made similar posts in the past outlining the same situations, but they didn't travel well outside of this forum. At one point it degenerated down to an argument about Marc Clayton in Miami and Dan Marino. People will go to great lengths to discount a view that doesn't mesh with their own, even if it flies in the face of relevant facts. And 9 times out of 10, they'll stray very far from the original point and make outlandish comparisons in order to discount your general theory entirely. Which is, gathering from your post, that QBs are oftentimes a reflection of their support. Good or bad, that's just how it is. Very rarely will you get a QB who can transcend all the turmoil and make the best of a bad situation. But that's not something teams should rely on happening very often. It's far more practical to find a good QB and give said QB just a few things he needs in order to succeed. Namely, an O-line and at least ONE go-to receiver.

This was recorded very early into the 2012 season.



The current list of O linemen (Red represents no longer in the league):
Renardo Foster
Jason Smith
Rodger Saffold
Adam Goldberg
Jason Brown
Jacob Bell
Mark LeVoir
Bryan Mattison
Tony Wragge

Harvey Dahl
Joseph Barksdale
Wayne Hunter
Quinn Ojinnaka

Shelley Smith
Scott Wells
Robert Turner
Barry Richardson
Jake Long
Christopher Williams
 

-X-

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Messages
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The Dude
The current list of O linemen (Red represents no longer in the league):
Renardo Foster
Jason Smith

Rodger Saffold
Adam Goldberg
Jason Brown
Jacob Bell
Mark LeVoir
Bryan Mattison
Tony Wragge

Harvey Dahl
Joseph Barksdale
Wayne Hunter
Quinn Ojinnaka

Shelley Smith
Scott Wells
Robert Turner
Barry Richardson
Jake Long
Christopher Williams
Don't forget...

John Greco
Hank Fraley
Drew Miller (one game)*
Kevin Hughes (3 games)*
Thomas Welch (3 games)*
Bryan Mattison (5 games)*
Rok Watkins (1 game)
Ty Nsekhe
Tim Barnes

* starters during the 2011 injury plague.
 
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Don't forget...

John Greco
Hank Fraley
Drew Miller (one game)*
Kevin Hughes (3 games)*
Thomas Welch (3 games)*
Bryan Mattison (5 games)*
Rok Watkins (1 game)
Ty Nsekhe
Tim Barnes

* starters during the 2011 injury plague.

I only included starters.
 

Ramifications

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The current list of O linemen (Red represents no longer in the league):
Renardo Foster
Jason Smith

Rodger Saffold
Adam Goldberg
Jason Brown
Jacob Bell
Mark LeVoir
Bryan Mattison
Tony Wragge

Harvey Dahl
Joseph Barksdale
Wayne Hunter
Quinn Ojinnaka

Shelley Smith
Scott Wells
Robert Turner
Barry Richardson
Jake Long
Christopher Williams

Good post,

Saffold was a high second rounder. Other than high first rounder (1.2?) and colossal bust Jason Smith and GSOT cornerstone Orlando Pace (1.1 or 1.2?), any other Rams OL taken in the first round or two? I know Fisher hasn't taken any first rounders, but this time frame also takes into account Martz, Linehan and Spagnuolo since Vermiel traded up for Pace. Maybe that has been part of the chain of events that conspired towards the Rams extended run of sub-.500 seasons?
 

-X-

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I only included starters.
I know. I included them because they were street guys who were forced into starting roles during that season. Outside of 2007, arguably the worst season for the Rams in terms of the sheer number of offensive line combinations they had to field.
 
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I know. I included them because they were street guys who were forced into starting roles during that season. Outside of 2007, arguably the worst season for the Rams in terms of the sheer number of offensive line combinations they had to field.

By starters I mean guys who started at least 1 game, with Sam as QB. According to ProFootballReference.com none on your list started?

Anyways the receivers list again red represents no longer in league, yards since are included.

Daniel Amendola-633
Brandon Gibson-326
Steven Jackson-191
Daniel Fells-341
Laurent Robinson-1,110
Mark Clayton

Danario Alexander-658
William Bajema-18
Michael Hoomanawanui-245
Kenneth Darby
Marshawn Gilyard-15
Michael Karney
Keith Toston-41

Fendi Onobun
Brandon Lloyd-911
Lance Kendricks
Austin Pettis
Greg Salas-143
Carnell Williams
Michael Sims-Walker-11
Brit Miller
Stephen Spach
Nick Miller

Chris Givens
Daryl Richardson
Steven Smith
Brian Quick
Matthew Mulligan-16
Mike McNeill
Isaiah Pead
Cory Harkey
Rodney McLeod
Jared Cook
Tavon Austin
Zac Stacy
Benny Cunningham
 

Lunchbox

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Geez! The NFL should have given him a handicap like in golf for working with those groups.
 

BonifayRam

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A Historical Survey Of Sam Bradford's Protective Wall

.....carries more weight tells the true-er history and for 2014 Sam's wall looks on par with the Rams past decade of weak OL's....once again who are Sam's starting OG's?
 

Ramifications

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A Historical Survey Of Sam Bradford's Protective Wall

.....carries more weight tells the true-er history and for 2014 Sam's wall looks on par with the Rams past decade of weak OL's....once again who are Sam's starting OG's?

I don't think it is less true that Bradford didn't have good WRs. I get that you are focused on the OL, but it would be hard for me to look at the evidence and not conclude that both position groups were appallingly bad for much of the first three years of his career.

To answer your question, they have a lot of options. Saffold, Wells and Dahl aren't gone yet, and we will know their status prior to the draft, where they have a lot of ammo to get an OL or two. I don't think it will be necessary to take three OL in the first round, we do have other important needs, too, like WR and DB.