With Foles Benched, the Rams are Back at Square One/Stalter

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
With Foles Benched, the Rams are Back at Square One

Posted by: Anthony Stalter

http://www.101sports.com/2015/11/17/with-foles-benched-the-rams-are-back-at-square-one/

Eight months after trading for Nick Foles, the Rams are back to where they started: In search of a quarterback.

The Foles-for-Sam Bradford swap looked good in March and I still like the move despite what’s transpired over the past 10 weeks.

The Rams needed to remove themselves of Bradford’s injury concerns (He’s hurt again, by the way.) and get out from under his massive contract.

So, Philadelphia traded Bradford to Chip Kelly, who was more than willing to part with not only Foles, but also draft-pick compensation to acquire Bradford.

At the time, many questioned why Kelly would be so willing to part with Foles in exchange for a quarterback coming off two ACL surgeries who stood to make nearly $13 million in 2015. It was a good question then and it’s a good question now, but I still don’t criticize the trade. Take Bradford off the Eagles and put him under center for the Rams this year and you still have the same issue: You need a quarterback.

Therein lies the big-picture problem.

Jeff Fisher has benched Foles in favor of Case Keenum, a necessity with Foles operating one of the least efficient passing games in football.

The Rams QB is completing just 56.6-percent of his passes, has thrown for 200 or more yards only twice in nine games, and is completing passes at a 6.56 yards-per-average clip.

Woefully unproductive.

But Keenum doesn’t offer any long-term solution. He’s an underrated athlete that plays with moxie, but he’s struggled with accuracy at the NFL level and has had issues with his decision-making in Houston (The Texans, not the University, where he became the NCAA’s all-time leader in passing yards, touchdowns and completions.).

Keenum also isn’t going to solve the Rams’ problems in pass protection (The team lost two more offensive linemen on Sunday.), nor is he going to magically turn this group of receivers into the second-coming of Isaac, Torry, and Az.

With the Rams on the verge of putting together another 7-9 season, they won’t be in position to draft a top-10 quarterback in April.

For every Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, and Derek Carr found in the middle rounds, there’s a Geno Smith, Jimmy Clausen, Mike Glennon, or Ryan Mallett that doesn’t work. So yes, the Rams could find a quarterback in the second or third round, but it’s still a crapshoot. Plus, the team already invested a third-round pick in Sean Mannion last year, so chances are they won’t be in a hurry to select a quarterback.

Free agency and the trade market is a roll of the dice as well when it comes to addressing the quarterback position, as the Rams found out this past offseason. The hope in March was that Foles would offer the team a long-term answer under center, but the reality is that the Rams find themselves back at square one.

For the time being, the best-case scenario is that Keenum does what Foles couldn’t: Process plays and defenses quicker, see the field better, be more accurate in the quick and intermediate passing game, and provide more functional athleticism when a play breaks down. In more general terms, don’t waste the efforts of Todd Gurley and the defense by consistently failing to move the chains.

But that’s just for the short-term. The long-term view at quarterback is more uncertain, which is all too familiar for this team.
 

VegasRam

Give your dog a hug.
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
3,931
Name
Doug
Stalter's stuff is usually objective and informative, but I think he's being a bit extreme here.
Rams are not back to 'square one" at all, and while his critique of Keenum may have some validity, it is based on a very small sample size, during which time he was ( or wasn't much more than) a rookie.
He actually doesn't "solve" Oline PP isues, but does mitigate it somewhat with his mobility, and again, too small a sample size to criticize his accuracy.
And, (and I still like Foles, but), he can't be less accurate than what we've been watching.
 

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
After playing many roles, Case Keenum unfazed by task of starting for Rams
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/23800/after-playing-many-roles-case-keenum-unfazed-by-task-of-starting-for-rams

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Since entering the NFL as an undrafted free agent in 2012, Case Keenum has found himself in nearly every scenario a player can experience in the league.

Keenum has been on a practice squad, run the scout team, been a starter and a backup. He has been released. He has been traded. You name it, he has done it. All of which makes Keenum uniquely qualified to handle just about anything, including his new role as the St. Louis Rams' starting quarterback.

"Yeah, I've been on a lot of sides of the quarterback position," Keenum said. "I've been named the starter after a guy that gets injured or whatever it is. I've been a backup now for a while. I've been replaced as a starter. I've been a No. 4 guy on one team and then starting the next week for another team. I've kind of been through it all.

"You have to be ready when you get a chance. I'm ready. I've been prepared and that's what I do every week, is I get ready to play. I'm excited for my chance, I really am. I'm excited to go out there and compete again. You don't get many chances to play in this league. I definitely count it as a blessing. To have a second chance to come out and compete is incredible."


For Keenum, the chance to start his first game with the Rams -- he started 10 in two stints with the Houston Texans -- might be incredible, but it's also a little bittersweet. When Rams coach Jeff Fisher informed Keenum, Nick Foles and Sean Mannion that Keenum would be taking the starting job from Foles on Monday, Keenum's first instinct was to reach out to Foles and support his friend.

"Nick's one of my best friends," Keenum said. "We've been fighting hard together to play the best that our position can play. I have the utmost respect for Nick. That's the first person that I talked to after Coach Fisher told us. We have a great relationship and I have his back no matter what."

Now it's Foles' turn to have Keenum's back.

Keenum had a short stay in St. Louis last year after the Rams claimed him on waivers from Houston. He spent part of the season on the active roster and another part on the practice squad before the Texans re-signed him to step in for their injured quarterbacks. The Rams then traded for Keenum in March with an eye toward making him Foles' primary backup.

Having had about half a season with the Rams in 2014 and more than half of this year, Keenum is comfortable in coordinator Frank Cignetti's offense. Nothing will be scaled back to get Keenum up to speed this week.

"He's been preparing himself to play week in and week out," Fisher said. "[He] understands the offense, so we just want to be mindful of the things that he really likes. There's some different things. We made some minor adjustments in the plan just because there's some things that he sees and sees a little differently than Nick and they prefer. It's all good. All it does is hopefully translates into first downs."

In some ways, the Rams might actually expand what they do with Keenum in the lineup. Upon naming Keenum the starter, Fisher cited his ability to extend plays with his legs as one of the primary reasons for the move. Fisher and the Rams are hoping Keenum can provide "a spark," at least something that can give the Rams a temporary lift while Foles catches his breath.

Through the first nine games, Foles was 14-of-35 for 138 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions for a passer rating of 51.8 and a QBR of 8.7 when he was outside of the pocket. Naturally, the Rams didn't ask him to leave the pocket much, limiting the amount of bootlegs and roll-outs they asked Foles to run.

Logic would dictate if the Rams believe Keenum can make plays with his legs, that could be a new wrinkle this week. In his 10 starts, Keenum is 21-of-43 for 398 yards with three touchdowns and two interceptions for a passer rating of 86.5 and a QBR of 43.7 when outside the pocket.

"I think that Case has shown that he can extend plays," Fisher said. "I mean, scramble around, extend plays and make throws down the field. So, yeah, there are some things that we can do a little bit differently."

Keenum took his first extended reps with the starters on Tuesday and acknowledged that though he has a good rapport with the Rams receivers and tight ends, developing chemistry is always an ongoing process.

But other than the extra reps in practice and where his name sits on the depth chart, Keenum seems unfazed by his latest task.

"You may dot a few more I's and cross a few more T's when you're thinking about the plan," Keenum said. "I try to visualize when I'm not playing, I try to prepare like I am. My routine is quite similar. I try to prepare and be the most mentally ready that I can be every time I step on the practice field. Now, instead of sitting back there visualizing it doing fake reps on air, I get the real reps, which is a lot better."

For Keenum, it's a change in role, but it's nothing new.
 

Ramrasta

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
3,201
Name
Tyler
I don't believe we need to draft a QB. If we keep this defense together and keep it healthy next year plus take some OL and WR or TE pieces early in the draft, this team could be dangerous no matter who is under center. Let Foles, Keenum, and Mannion battle for the starting spot.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
We definately have a QB problem and I don't think Keenum will fix it. We saw Foles fail. We need to address the QB position this offseason.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
Take Bradford off the Eagles and put him under center for the Rams this year and you still have the same issue: You need a quarterback.
Not true.... When healthy, Sam has played decently under Schotty...In fact, I'd take his 2013 play right now....and I'm sure we could have protected him BETTER than the Eagles...yep..I said it...
 

dbrooks25

Pro Bowler
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
1,119
Not true.... When healthy, Sam has played decently under Schotty...In fact, I'd take his 2013 play right now....and I'm sure we could have protected him BETTER than the Eagles...yep..I said it...
Yeah, before the injury, 2013 Bradford was playing some pretty good football. The injury bug was my only real gripe with him.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
Mike Mitchell and the Carolina Panthers ended up ruining 3 seasons for us when he hit Sam while going out of bounds. Finally Bradford was hitting his stride and playing great. Now we are still waiting for competent QB play. All we want is average.
 

RAMSinLA

Hall of Fame
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
3,069
The Rams lost two more O-linemen last week. I wonder if the benching of Foles is in part precautionary. The Rams want Foles to be back next season when they hopefully can get him the protection and targets he needs to be productive. I'm not necessarily in favor of Nick returning next season but where are the Rams going to find another QB? Case can scramble and extend plays and that is what is needed when you are playing behind one of the softest O-lines in the NFL.
 

Rmfnlt

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
5,342
We definately have a QB problem and I don't think Keenum will fix it. We saw Foles fail. We need to address the Oline this offseason.
FIFY
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
The Rams lost two more O-linemen last week. I wonder if the benching of Foles is in part precautionary. The Rams want Foles to be back next season when they hopefully can get him the protection and targets he needs to be productive. I'm not necessarily in favor of Nick returning next season but where are the Rams going to find another QB? Case can scramble and extend plays and that is what is needed when you are playing behind one of the softest O-lines in the NFL.
I thought the same thing. Fisher said Foles needed a break and then pointed to Keenum's scrambling ability as one of the reasons for the switch. With a poor line you need a QB who can escape. That's not Foles. If the line solidifies in the next 2-3 weeks I wonder if Fisher goes back to Foles then.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
I agree the line needs to be looked at. It may be a matter of all the rookies that we picked maturing another year and just getting better. The WR position also needs fixing. It's not solely a QB issue, but the QB has been an issue.
 

Athos

Legend
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
5,933
Gotta say....

I like the ARC Keenum puts on the ball. It's a good arc that WRs run right under. Just watched the INDY highlights. Beautiful touch. May we see a legit fade inside the 20 again? Foles wasn't very good with the fade. We have Quick. We have Britt. Give them a GD FADE!

He flicks the ball out of his hand super quick to and, at least downfield, it has some arcing mustard on it. He also won't leave yards on the field when there's an open run lane (unlike Foles who couldn't be out a granny with a walker).

I'm mildly excited.....but I'm just desperate for good QB play. And maybe I'm really desperate, but maybe that scrambling with free up Austin for some huge chunk yards.
 

Athos

Legend
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
5,933
One more note....

For being thrust into the starter's role in 2013... It wasn't as if his play held the Texans back.

They lost 7 games by a combined 29 points. That's an average of 4 pts separating those losses. Sure he didn't complete a ton, but that team as a dumpster fire sucking, intentionally almost imo, for Clowney. He only got to play with Foster basically for 2 games.

He'll have Gurley healthy instead of lost for the season.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
but where are the Rams going to find another QB?
The draft...

And I agree that Keenum was playing pretty well for a terrible Texans team...He did have Andre Johnson....and Nuke.....So it's not like he didn't have weapons.... I think Fosters backup was a monster in 2013 too....Forget his name..He left for the big FA $$$$....
 

HometownBoy

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,527
Name
Aaron
The draft...

And I agree that Keenum was playing pretty well for a terrible Texans team...He did have Andre Johnson....and Nuke.....So it's not like he didn't have weapon.
Well he only played two games for the Texans in 2014, so he really didn't have Nuke all that much.

And Ben Taint was alright, much like everybody else, he looked a hell of a lot better behind the Texans line than without it. Never managed to replicate what he did in Houston and bounced from team to team.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
@HometownBoy
I'm with ya bro...Just hoping for the Best...expecting....IDK.....Keenum is a firey lil player. He threw for the world in college...IDK, I bet he'll love throwing to Cook, Britt, and my boy Quick...With Gurley as his play fake...Anybody that can't use Gurley, and complete passes consistently, is really not trying. ...Keenum will look like he belongs...
I'm still pulling for Mannion to get some time...Everybody keeps saying he's not ready....Okay.....
I'm not sure, but I think every game I've watched, Keenum completes a big pass or 2 downfield.....Nuke being one, and Johnson always benefiting.... He uses his outside targets....He goes to certain players if they're hot, and he'll spread it around...
If I see the same old stuff from the Rams this weekend on offense, then I'll look at players and coaches(Fox really out-coached Fish last game:shocked::poop:) besides the QB.....
 

HometownBoy

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,527
Name
Aaron
@HometownBoy
I'm with ya bro...Just hoping for the Best...expecting....IDK.....Keenum is a firey lil player. He threw for the world in college...IDK, I bet he'll love throwing to Cook, Britt, and my boy Quick...With Gurley as his play fake...Anybody that can't use Gurley, and complete passes consistently, is really not trying. ...Keenum will look like he belongs...
I'm still pulling for Mannion to get some time...Everybody keeps saying he's not ready....Okay.....
I'm not sure, but I think every game I've watched, Keenum completes a big pass or 2 downfield.....Nuke being one, and Johnson always benefiting.... He uses his outside targets....He goes to certain players if they're hot, and he'll spread it around...
If I see the same old stuff from the Rams this weekend on offense, then I'll look at players and coaches(Fox really out-coached Fish last game:shocked::poop:) besides the QB.....
You and me both brother! I've had my eye on Keenum since that 2013 season he put up with the Texans, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him do some big things in the horns. (y) Just wanted to let you know about Taint since you asked about him.

I believe that Keenum will be a tipping point for our offense, he'll make it more balanced. He's not going to go out there and change things like Brady or Manning did, but he will be able to hit his guys and make some plays with his legs. With Gurley that's IMPERATIVE to get him some space to do things himself. With somebody to make them actually respect the pass... Watch out!

Can't wait for him to him my guys Britt and Quick down the field and leave the Ravens looking stupidified.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/17/pro-nick-foles-sam-bradford-trade-re-evaulated/


Reevaluating the Foles-Bradford trade

With the news of Nick Foles' benching, John Breitenbach revisits the QB-for-QB swap by the Rams and Eagles.

John Breitenbach | 2 days ago
AP_153924338433.jpg

(AP Photo/Mike Roemer)

This offseason, the Rams traded Sam Bradford and a fifth-round pick to the Eagles in exchange for Nick Foles and a second-round pick. Neither team was overly-satisfied with the fit of their signal caller, but also found the options in free agency and the draft limited, forcing them to look around the league for solutions. It’s now the middle of November, and Foles has been benched for Case Keenum, while Bradford is likely to miss time for injuries sustained against the Dolphins. Let’s take a look at how each has performed through 10 weeks.


Nick Foles Sam Bradford
Passing grade (league rank)
-7.4 (32nd) -2.3 (19th)
PFF QB rating 82.68 (28th) 85.43 (23rd)
Accuracy percentage 71.0 (27th) 77.7 (7th)
Deep accuracy percentage 36.1 (39th) 45.9 (18th)
Accuracy percentage under pressure 62.0 (21st) 73.3 (3rd)
As is evident from the numbers, neither QB has played well through Week 10. Foles is better at generating big plays, but Bradford has better accuracy in general and under pressure.

Foles’ biggest issue throughout his career has been consistency. Too often, good games have been followed up with terrible ones. Even in his outstanding 2013 season, Foles was dreadful against Dallas in Week 7. Overall, he has played four games with a +4.0 grade or better in his career, but another six with grades worse than -4.0. Three of those games have come this year, including the one that resulted in his benching against the Bears.

Bradford, meanwhile, has done a decent job in Chip Kelly’s offense, but his limitations aren’t going away. He remains inaccurate and indecisive on downfield throws, even if his receivers have let him down on occasion with drops. Injury issues have resurfaced, with reports now that he may miss two games due to multiple injuries sustained in Week 10.

The backups
Jeff Fisher is desperately looking for a solution to save the Rams’ season, and probably his job, but recently-named starter Case Keenum does not look like the savior. Overall, he has a -10.6 grade in his performances in the pros (10 starts since 2013). There were some good moments in Houston, but passing under pressure proved a significant issue, along with accuracy in general.

For the Eagles, Mark Sanchez remains a capable passer, but also more than capable of crippling decisions in key situations. His -7.9 grade in nine games last season suggests he’s unlikely to seize the starting job if Bradford is forced to miss significant time.

I just heard that Sanchez works faster than Bradfords, runs significantly more plays...if he is actually successful, and gets on a roll...our #4 pick is still in danger..
 

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Daryl Johnston Surprised by the Bad Play & Benching of Foles

Moose Johnston joined Kevin Wheeler to give his take on the Rams from the last time he saw them, why the Foles benching is surprising, what a change at QB can do for a team, and the Rams opponent this week Joe Flacco and the Ravens.

Listen to Johnston Talk Rams