Why Not Zay Jones.

[rams56]

I have heard a lot of possibilities with the 37th pick. I, myself am leaning towards an offensive pick such as Wr or Te...... and i am torn between JuJu, Godwin, and Jones if we go Wr at that point. I've seen a lot of projections that involve JuJu and Godwin but none that involve Jones..... so I was wondering why not Zay Jones with the 37th pick? I myself have given him a late 1st to early 2nd round grade...along with Smith-Schuster and Godwin .... so what are the perceived weaknesses that I don't see? Interested in hearing your thoughts....

Go Rams..........

 

[OldSchool]

I think he and a few others would be great picks at 37.

 

[JackDRams]

You must have missed a bunch of mocks done by jrry. He had Jones associated with us a few times if I remember correctly. It's been discussed.

 

[rams56]

You must have missed a bunch of mocks done by jrry. He had Jones associated with us a few times if I remember correctly. It's been discussed.

My bad.... I did a search first and came up with nothing. ... again. ..sorry.

Go Rams.......

 

[JackDRams]

My bad.... I did a search first and came up with nothing. ... again. ..sorry.

Go Rams.......

No worries. There's been many mocks done over the last few months.

 

[jrry32]

I like Zay, but I prefer Kupp over him. Zay and Kupp win in basically the same ways. Kupp is better at it imo. But I'd be happy with Zay.

 

[LACHAMP46]

nothing wrong with Zay....

I just see us going defense with our early picks.

 

[Merlin]

Of all those guys estimated to go round 2 Godwin's my guy. I like his snaps on the outside and he fits our needs very well, just worried he's going to go higher than where he's listed.

If he's gone I'd consider some of those other wideouts but it depends on which DBs are on the board. I think it's going to come down to who's the highest guy on their board from among OL, WR, CB, DE, S. I suppose TE is possible too, but I think one of the other positions is more likely for a few reasons, those being TE is not a year one impact position, they like Higbee too so it's a depth need, and it's a deep position that can be had in rounds 3 and later.

OL is the scary one. Such a weak class that who knows wtf is going to happen. I expect three OTs go in round one, and probably Lamp. Round 2 will probably see teams that need OL start reaching and it's gonna be ugly for teams that wait. Not a good year for OL man.

 

[BeefJurky]

His highlight reel looks like high school games. The level of competition he faced gives teams pause, especially in like the top 50.

He also only had 8 TDs in 158 receptions. I'm guessing its because him and his QB abused underneath routes and redzone took a lot of that away from him? Idk, but Godwin for example had 11 TDs on 59 receptions. John Ross 81 and 17. Juju 70/10.

I don't think he's worth it for us at #37 our highest pick. There is more value other places like Godwin or Engram as targets, or drafting a CB or some other BPA position of need.

 

[jrry32]

His highlight reel looks like high school games. The level of competition he faced gives teams pause, especially in like the top 50.

He also only had 8 TDs in 158 receptions. I'm guessing its because him and his QB abused underneath routes and redzone took a lot of that away from him? Idk, but Godwin for example had 11 TDs on 59 receptions. John Ross 81 and 17. Juju 70/10.

I don't think he's worth it for us at #37 our highest pick. There is more value other places like Godwin or Engram as targets, or drafting a CB or some other BPA position of need.

He played in the AAC, not Division II. He had 135 yards and 1 TD in 2015 against the Florida Gators (the best secondary in the NCAA). This year, he faced Virginia Tech, South Carolina, and N.C. State out of conference in addition to teams like Temple, UCF, and UConn.

 

[BeefJurky]

He played in the AAC, not Division II. He had 135 yards and 1 TD in 2015 against the Florida Gators (the best secondary in the NCAA). This year, he faced Virginia Tech, South Carolina, and N.C. State out of conference in addition to teams like Temple, UCF, and UConn.

Okay but the thread didn't ask "Why yes Zay Jones" it asked "Why not Zay Jones".
And besides, AAC (and all G5 schools) are essentially Divison-1.5


Jk, I actually wasn't aware he balled out against Florida thats good to know

 

[jrry32]

Okay but the thread didn't ask "Why yes Zay Jones" it asked "Why not Zay Jones".
And besides, AAC (and all G5 schools) are essentially Divison-1.5


Jk, I actually wasn't aware he balled out against Florida thats good to know

Why not Zay Jones? He doesn't separate well vertically, if that's what we're after.

 

[Fatbot]

And besides, AAC (and all G5 schools) are essentially Divison-1.5

I disagree with this mentality. Generally I think the so-called P5 is way overrated and hanging on to its prestige in part thanks to money and control, the gap is closer than ever. But don't want to digress -- the key here in a draft discussion context is twofold: First is analyzing a player against their specific competition, not generalizations.. so if the case against Z.Jones is he played against nobody good because of his conference, then the case should be specifically laid out.

For example, @jrry32 does a good job of this with isolating Kupp's numbers against the Pac12 -- and I say that even though my conclusion is vastly different -- I don't respect his Pac12 performance, since I believe that overrated "basketball on grass" conference has some of the worst defenses in the nation, most so bad they'd made Tim Walton blush...

Second, a key aspect of the draft game is trying to maximize value, so other than obvious early talent, I always want to stay away from players that might be getting hype from the media -- and I think most draft pundits share your bias that favors the P5 schools. So, I like smaller school players if they are from a good program that succeeds from great coaching, not just recruiting. I look to draft football players that played for the love for the game coached up in a great small program over athletes that just played for a big school to get paid under some prima donna P5 recruiting machine coach.

 

[jrry32]

For example, @jrry32 does a good job of this with isolating Kupp's numbers against the Pac12 -- and I say that even though my conclusion is vastly different -- I don't respect his Pac12 performance, since I believe that overrated "basketball on grass" conference has some of the worst defenses in the nation, most so bad they'd made Tim Walton blush...

I don't necessarily disagree. Although, the Big 12 is worse. Thing is that Kupp's tape against Washington speaks volumes because of the players he faced off against. And that was from 2014. He's an even better player now. Plus, he went out and challenged himself at the Senior Bowl. He rose to the challenge.

Here are a couple videos of him beating Desmond King and Rasul Douglas on deep routes during Senior Bowl practices:



To be fair to Douglas, double moves in a situation like that are very difficult to defend, but that double move was straight up nasty. It shows Kupp's quickness, fluid hips, and stop/start acceleration.

 

[jrry32]

BTW, Phil Savage does a nice job of explaining why Zay Jones is my #2 WR behind Cooper Kupp on Day 2:


As it stands now, my Day 2 WR rankings are:
1. Cooper Kupp
2. Zay Jones
3. Chris Godwin
4. Juju Smith
5. Josh Reynolds

 

[BeefJurky]

BTW, Phil Savage does a nice job of explaining why Zay Jones is my #2 WR behind Cooper Kupp on Day 2:


As it stands now, my Day 2 WR rankings are:
1. Cooper Kupp
2. Zay Jones
3. Chris Godwin
4. Juju Smith
5. Josh Reynolds

I'd go

Godwin, Zay, Juju, Kupp

Don't you feel like Kupp is Spruce 2.0? They'd fill the same role. I feel like Godwin and Zay have more potential to be that outside receiver we need

 

[jrry32]

I'd go

Godwin, Zay, Juju, Kupp

Don't you feel like Kupp is Spruce 2.0? They'd fill the same role. I feel like Godwin and Zay have more potential to be that outside receiver we need

Kupp is Spruce 2.0 in the same vein that DeSean Jackson was Donnie Avery 2.0.

I think you're looking at measurables rather than film. Zay Jones wins in the same sort of ways that Kupp does. If Kupp isn't an outside WR, Jones isn't an outside WR.(the reality is that both will be productive WRs whether outside or in the slot)

 

[Merlin]

I'd go

Godwin, Zay, Juju, Kupp

I think Zay and Juju are pickem, both real close, probably would take Jones between them due to his miniscule drop rate. I don't like Kupp as much as Jrry does, but I do like him more than Zay and Juju. My list would probably go Godwin>Kupp>Zay/Juju.

That said they're all grouped pretty closely so it would probably come down to what role they seek in fit. Which is another reason Godwin's top of that group for me; I think he is going to play outside and play well. The others might as well of course, hard to say but I feel most comfortable saying that about Godwin.

 

[Zero]

round 2 Godwin's my guy

+1000

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgdcCcmVS1M

 

[Florida_Ram]

Kupp is Spruce 2.0 in the same vein that DeSean Jackson was Donnie Avery 2.0.

I think you're looking at measurables rather than film. Zay Jones wins in the same sort of ways that Kupp does. If Kupp isn't an outside WR, Jones isn't an outside WR.(the reality is that both will be productive WRs whether outside or in the slot)

I agree with your observation but I have a different kind of question about how different your rankings are with the talent level/skill sets of your top four wide receivers.

Your TOP 4 day 2 WR's are
1. Cooper Kupp
2. Zay Jones
3. Chris Godwin
4. Juju Smith

Do you think #1 Kupp is head and shoulders above #2 Zay? Is Zay the same over #3 Godwin and Godwin the same over #4 JuJu etc?

I ask because I don't have my TOP 4 day 2 WR's separated by very much to be upset should my #4 ranked get selected by the Rams as opposed to my #1 ranked. Not suggesting you do either by any means....

Anyway, I think both of us would agree that the teams our Top 4 WR's are drafted by and the offensive schemes combined with the pedigree of quarterbacks throwing to them, will could have huge impact on their success in the first couple of years of their careers. Or am I wrong about your evaluations and ranking system?

Do you have #1 Kupp so special that no matter what team drafts him you think he will have superior stats his first 2 seasons compared to #2 Zay ?

And #2 Zay the same over #3 Godwin regardless what teams they get drafted by?

And #3 Godwin over #4 JuJu no matter what teams they get drafted by?

It's a good question because it exploits how much better you actually believe your number 1 ranked is compared to your number four ranked.

A special WR that is special because he can put up some really good numbers even if he goes to a team with a below average QB and or primitive passing team. Not always the case but the great ones find a way to produce as you already know.

Back to the point.. Is your top 4 WR's separated by a distinct margin and if so why?
Kupp, Zay, Godwin and JuJu.