Why not play bend not break on Defense?

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

TheTackle

Starter
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
971
Wasn’t this the basis of cover 2 and the great Buccaneers defense that featured another hall of fame DL? I say this, because they gave the greatest show on turf fits and played us tough every time...

It seems to me that bend not break, while not being that sexy, is the way forward this season. Holding teams to field goals would make a huge difference to the points difference with our offense

Vs pass - The beauty of 3-4 is that it allows the coordinator to mix exotic blitzes, while still dropping other LBs into space. With safeties providing help over the top.

Teams that dink and dunk are likely to come up short at times with the level of talent on our front and back end.

Vs run - Of course this does mean we have to play the run far tougher, which would mean sacrificing some of the penetration we are getting from our DL - who will need to eat space and free LBs.

Conclusion - To my mind Kiser is the player who could turn our defense around. You can cover up some of his limitations in coverage through a mixture of zone coverage and blitzing - which he excelled at in college - and in preseason. He is and will always be a force against the run... of course, if he is not ready, there’s an alternative - as people have notes - NaVorro Bowman
 

Picked4td

Pro Bowler
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
1,568
Because in today’s NFL playing zone vs a good qb is just going to get you picked apart. And playing something like 2 man under is more times than not going to give your corners the impossible task of covering for an extended period of time.

That’s why you see a lot of 0-man and cover 1 defenses
 

Ellard80

Legend
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
6,312
It's all about matching your personell with your scheme and vice-versa.

Currently we don't have the right pieces for our scheme.
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
Sounds like "prevent defense" which I detest.

As has been mentioned many times here by members much smarter than me, our D is built to pressure the opposing QB with 2 excellent cover corners who can give the D-line more time. That was the plan and it worked until Talib was injured. Now it's a mess. We can't stop the run and we're getting picked apart in the passing game.

As mentioned by @Ellard80 above, we don't have the right players to do what Wade wants to do.

I have no doubt we can rack up plenty of points against the Chiefs woeful defense but they will get their points against us as well. A 38-35 game wouldn't surprise me.

I would blitz the heck out of Mahomes on every play and take our chances for sack-fumbles and interceptions. Throw caution to the wind.
 

TSFH Fan

Epic Music Guy
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
1,327
On the one hand, I've never thought of Cover 2 as bend but not break. I mean, that corner-safety seam is there to be exploited.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t-6iZk8dJk


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKVrY6C0aRY


On the other hand, I've gotten upset enough where I've wondered whether a vintage Fritz Shurmer defense, with Charmin-soft zones, would be all that worse than what we have now. I mean, you can talk about a modern offense picking apart a zone and you could complain about running a prevent defense, but are those things really worse than what we're seeing?

Well, ok, yes, they are worse, carry on.
 

TheTackle

Starter
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
971
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
How is playing more conservative, prevent defense? I mean please...
 

TexasRam

Legend
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
7,685
Whoever figures out a defense to stop today’s offenses is going to be labeled the next Genius, and win some Super Bowls.

Wade appears to me following Fisher in doing what worked in the past. Clock is ticking. A new defense needs to be imagined.
 

1maGoh

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
3,957
Right more we're playing bend and break defense for the most part. Bend don't break would be a huge improvement.
 

jjab360

Legend
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
6,636
Whoever figures out a defense to stop today’s offenses is going to be labeled the next Genius, and win some Super Bowls.

Wade appears to me following Fisher in doing what worked in the past. Clock is ticking. A new defense needs to be imagined.
Offenses are definitely advancing in a manner that leaves defenses behind. Pretty much every team's motto is let your playmakers make plays (including ours) like Fisher was with offense and it's not working.
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
How is playing more conservative, prevent defense? I mean please...

You wrote "bend not break" which brought to mind "prevent." Brain-fart on my part. Btw using Micah Kiser would be interesting to watch. Phillips and his staff must not believe he's ready though.
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,047
We need to get Wade to read the posts here so he can get himself all fixed and stuff. Great job dudes! :dizzy:
 

OnceARam

Hall of Fame
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
3,332
Wasn’t this the basis of cover 2 and the great Buccaneers defense that featured another hall of fame DL? I say this, because they gave the greatest show on turf fits and played us tough every time...

It seems to me that bend not break, while not being that sexy, is the way forward this season. Holding teams to field goals would make a huge difference to the points difference with our offense

Vs pass - The beauty of 3-4 is that it allows the coordinator to mix exotic blitzes, while still dropping other LBs into space. With safeties providing help over the top.

Teams that dink and dunk are likely to come up short at times with the level of talent on our front and back end.

Vs run - Of course this does mean we have to play the run far tougher, which would mean sacrificing some of the penetration we are getting from our DL - who will need to eat space and free LBs.

Conclusion - To my mind Kiser is the player who could turn our defense around. You can cover up some of his limitations in coverage through a mixture of zone coverage and blitzing - which he excelled at in college - and in preseason. He is and will always be a force against the run... of course, if he is not ready, there’s an alternative - as people have notes - NaVorro Bowman

I was thinking the same thing. We actually do have the personnel. Barron could play the cover LB role.

And we could play cover 4 on top to keep everything in front of us.

This would slow things down between the 20s and the we tighten up in the red zone.

Would be better than what we have now anyway, which is Break and Break...
 

Debacled

Starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
571
Its 2018 not 2000....unfortunately this is a different NFL. Its still the same game, but the rules and what offenses are doing have completely changed.

The league is trending in the direction of capable QBs being able to do whatever they want. Rule changes make that even easier year to year. Cover 2 will never work with Peters on the team, he gambles and tries to jump routes far too often.

The defense I think would benefit from letting Peters do what he is good at and keep another man accountable for his goofs....which do and will continue to happen (regardless if you have someone backing him up or not).
 

Picked4td

Pro Bowler
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
1,568
Its 2018 not 2000....unfortunately this is a different NFL. Its still the same game, but the rules and what offenses are doing have completely changed.

The league is trending in the direction of capable QBs being able to do whatever they want. Rule changes make that even easier year to year. Cover 2 will never work with Peters on the team, he gambles and tries to jump routes far too often.

The defense I think would benefit from letting Peters do what he is good at and keep another man accountable for his goofs....which do and will continue to happen (regardless if you have someone backing him up or not).

Tbh cover 2 would probably be the best defense for peters. As the flat defender you want someone that can read the qb and jump a route. Kinda exactly what they are suppose to do
 

TheTackle

Starter
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
971
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Might not be a bad idea considering the alternative. Keep teems to field goals and rely on the offense.

Exactly my point, why care about where the defense ranks, as long as we win - more comfortably. Once we have Talib back and Fowler rolling, a more conservative defense would still lead to stops - it might even cause QBs to hold on to the ball longer, providing more time for our front seven to get home. It might free our safeties to make more plays, because as of now Joyner in particular is struggling to make any impact

It’s about wins, not stats
 

fearsomefour

Legend
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
17,079
The Chiefs do a lot of motion etc to get mismatches for Hill.
Even in a zone get him running into LBs.
The Rams can mix zone and man but I would always man up on Hill with some S help.
With Peters talking about pics I would take advantage of his arrogance and run double moves at him all day if we're KC.
KC runs multiple sets which is bad news for a Rams secondary that often seems confused.
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
https://buffalonews.com/2018/11/15/...ly-in-rankings-heads-into-bye-as-top-10-unit/

Here's the updated team defensive pressure rate list:

Team......Pressures/Drop backs Faced/Pressure Rate
1. Rams........... 153............ 368.............................. 41%
9. Chiefs...........162............ 459...............................35%

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...its-job-as-the-rest-of-the-defense-struggles/

According to Chris Trapasso of the Buffalo News, using data compiled by Pro Football Focus, the Rams are getting pressure on 41.6 percent of the passes they face this season, the best in the NFL. That doesn’t necessarily mean the Rams are getting a lot of sacks — they’re tied for 10th in the league with 26 sacks — but they are consistently hurrying opposing quarterbacks.

And that underscores just how disappointing the secondary has been. If the defensive front is hurrying the opposing quarterback, and the opposing quarterback is completing passes anyway, that doesn’t reflect well on the secondary.

Getting to Patrick Mahomes on Monday night will be important, but the rest of the defense has to do its job as well. Given the way both teams’ offenses and defenses have played this season, expect a shootout.
 

den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
22,425
Name
Dennis
Getting to Patrick Mahomes on Monday night will be important, but the rest of the defense has to do its job as well. Given the way both teams’ offenses and defenses have played this season, expect a shootout.

Mahomes is a great athlete and can run, Rams need to focus on pressure in the middle and hold the edges with Fowler and Ebukam. BTW, Ebukam needs to tackle better, he's missed a ton....Longacre better tackler, but much slower.