Why Are We Terrible At Empty Sets?

[JBRam77]

Just listened to the recent 11 Personnel Podcast… We rank 32 out of 32 in the NFL this year out of an Empty Set… We used to be really efficient at it in 2021. Why do we suck so bad at it and why do we continue to use it in crucial situations when there is a high chance it wont work at best and lead to a disastrous play at worst

 

[snackdaddy]

You would think empty sets mean get rid of the ball quicker and someone should be open with all those receivers. But perhaps Stafford isn't reading the defense and finding the open guy quick enough? Or the line isn't holding them off just long enough for him to find someone?

I remember a play back in the GSOT days where Warner got sacked by a free blitzer. They went right back to the empty set and picked up a first down. That was confidence in their ability to make a play.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Just listened to the recent 11 Personnel Podcast… We rank 32 out of 32 in the NFL this year out of an Empty Set… We used to be really efficient at it in 2021. Why do we suck so bad at it and why do we continue to use it in crucial situations when there is a high chance it wont work at best and lead to a disastrous play at worst

Didn't she or McVay make a mention of how often they used in in 3rd and long sitch? Or am I misremembering?

 

[Merlin]

I'd say it's a bit of everything. Stafford has not played well. The line springs leaks at the worst times. Our wideouts have been without Kupp and since his return he's been less than himself.

Bigger picture I think is that we should be running shotgun with a back next to Stafford every snap. That allows for runs out of shotgun, which have looked good all season as teams aren't sure if we're run or pass. So double down on that effect.

I think this OL is at a bit of a crossroads in their run blocking. They've done a better job than usual this year. Our backs are better this year with Williams' emergence and Freeman showing solid as a depth piece. There is room for balance to be a thing the rest of the way which will help Stafford avoid being hit.

I don't want 30 runs per game mind you. That's unrealistic with McVay from that philosophical side of things. He's not a run-centric coordinator. He's a pass first guy. But he definitely has to chill with the empty sets and concede that with this year's talent mix it's not working.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Maybe Stafford really needs a Calvin Johnson or Kenny Golladay type WR as an option.
Covered or no, he would simply just throw it up in their direction and they would go get it.

 

[Jacobarch]

Maybe Stafford really needs a Calvin Johnson or Kenny Golladay type WR as an option.
Covered or no, he would simply just throw it up in their direction and they would go get it.

Stafford needs to spread the ball around. He tends to focus on #10 too often

 

[RAMSinLA]

Long developing plays are killing the Rams. The O-Line has its limits and weaknesses.

 

[Merlin]

Stafford needs to spread the ball around. He tends to focus on #10 too often

Hard to blame him though. Rams have not done him a lot of favors in the talent around him. OL is iffy as fuck. WR has nobody that scares anybody. So he puts the ball on the guy who always comes down with it.

 

[blackbart]

Seems more like a play design flaw to me. The receivers are not trying to get open quickly, they are still going downfield then making a move.

Check out the play to Puka in the squawks game. I don’t see anyone trying to win on a slant at or even near the LOS.

 

[Merlin]

I think everybody runs the same plays in this league in general. It's a copycat league where whatever is working in route combinations is added and dialed up by everyone, and some settle in as standards so it's not like you have teams designing new concepts en masse per game. There's something new here and there, but overall as route combos go there's probably more deviation based on execution than there is deviation in content called.

Every team runs a certain range of screens. Certain range of route combos that are in vogue. Only shit that isn't true with is the shit that doesn't work well.

I know I'm generalizing here because I'm not gonna go count the plays of every team. But whether it's a WCO team or a EP or what have you everyone is stealing what works with minor deviations based on their personnel, which are where opposing DCs gameplan off of.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Hard to blame him though. Rams have not done him a lot of favors in the talent around him. OL is iffy as fuck. WR has nobody that scares anybody. So he puts the ball on the guy who always comes down with it.

Yet when that guy is out the offense looks better? At least I hope he notices.

 

[Merlin]

Yet when that guy is out the offense looks better? At least I hope he notices.

I think the offense has been shitty all season. There's some variation but also each opponent is different, so not interested in drawing parallels on Kupp being gone meaning we are better. I think we are better with Kupp.

No probs disagreeing on that either. Let's see how things look once he settles in again from that injury and also if this OL can grow going forward. I expect things could improve.

 

[oldnotdead]

If McVay is going to run a play with only Stafford in the backfield you are inviting a blitz. That's why if he's going to run a play with an empty backfield then he should play 12 personnel extending the OL. Depending upon how the defense responds one of the TEs should be free to run a short possession route. The Y runs an intermediate route and both outside WRs run deep taking both CBs and safeties with them. If Stafford throws to one of the TEs if they break the tackle they will get chunk yardage. Do that once and the LBs won't be blitzing and will back off.

In twelve personnel McVay will still have his normal 3 starting WRs in routes along with a possible TE. With Kupp and Nacua I'd take those odds.

McVay's empty set design sucks he's all about chunk yardage. He doesn't seem to understand that if you are moving the chains the chunk yardage will come as the defense moves to protect the line to gain. In 12 personnel he protects his OL & Stafford. Sean doesn't seem to understand he has the perfect WRs in Kupp and Nacua to play 12 personnel as his base set.

 

[RamBall]

I think in the past many of the empty set plays utilized at least a TE to help in pass protection. It seems that when we run empty lately its always to put 5 eligibles out in a pass pattern and the OL is overwhelmed.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think the offense has been shitty all season. There's some variation but also each opponent is different, so not interested in drawing parallels on Kupp being gone meaning we are better. I think we are better with Kupp.

No probs disagreeing on that either. Let's see how things look once he settles in again from that injury and also if this OL can grow going forward. I expect things could improve.

But the issue isn't Kupp. It's Stafford's focus on Kupp. The offense may be poor either way. But they've looked better when Kupp hasn't been in the lineup to focus upon.

 

[Merlin]

But the issue isn't Kupp. It's Stafford's focus on Kupp. The offense may be poor either way. But they've looked better when Kupp hasn't been in the lineup to focus upon.

Maybe they've looked better on Monday night than on Sunday too. No idea but it's not something I worry about. This offense at large feels to me like a unit trying to find its way in a lot of facets, from the run game to the pass game and bottom line is I don't think we're better without Kupp. I don't think Stafford is better without Kupp either. I think he needs to play better period.

Let's see what the stats say after the season.

 

[Tumak61]

Stafford's decision making in the empty quick game are terrible. Some of his worst turnovers are in empty with quick throws. Why McVay likes this look with him is a mystery. Stafford made his game throwing down the sideline to Megatron which is why we signed Robinson which didn't work out at all.

 

[Steve808]

Long developing plays are killing the Rams. The O-Line has its limits and weaknesses.

I think this is the answer. We used to run quick hitters, plus the receivers in motion would get a few handoffs to keep the heat off the QB but we have these slow developing plays. A lot of the sacks seems like Stafford would have enough time to get rid of the ball with quick reads but our O-line is not built to stand in the pocket and allow plays that take more than 4 seconds.

 

[TexasRam]

I see 4 things really hindering our offensive success:

1. Mcvay calling too many deep routes and disregarding the short pass game.

2. Oline - injuries at times and subpar play at LT and center at times.

3. Kupp and Stafford out of synch. Probably due to Kupps injury.

4. Stafford playing bad at times. Missing targets when he has time.

Personally I think shorter pass plays and more play action to move the pocket are needed.

 

[Jacobarch]

Hard to blame him though. Rams have not done him a lot of favors in the talent around him. OL is iffy as fuck. WR has nobody that scares anybody. So he puts the ball on the guy who always comes down with it.

Totally agree. Plus the play calling has been epically bad in empty sets. Long drops with no protection is a hard thing to overcome.
My point was Stafford has an issue zeroing in on kupp when he plays. Teams see these tendencies and exploit them