Troy Vincent criticizes NFLPA spending on legal action

[CGI_Ram]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...al-action-challenging-roger-goodell-authority

Criticizing the NFL Players Association's recent strategy of going through the court system to challenge commissioner Roger Goodell's ability to suspend players, NFL executive Troy Vincent said "millions and millions of dollars" could have been better spent on players who desperately need it.

"Look at the amount of money being spent on legal fees for a handful of people," said Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations. "It's millions and millions of dollars, and we've got players that are hurting. We've got young men who don't know how to identify a good financial adviser. Men are in transition who aren't doing well, and yet $8-10 million a year is spent in court fees about who should make a decision on someone, who in some cases has committed a crime.

"Think about that logically. Wouldn't it be better to spend our time and resources on the issues that are vital to our players -- past, present and future -- such as the players' total wellness and growing the game together?"

Vincent, who served as president of the NFLPA from 2004 to 2008 and challenged DeMaurice Smith for the executive director role in 2009, also emphasized the importance of the union.

"The union has a role and a function to protect the rights of the player regarding hours, wages and working conditions," he said. "I have an unwavering commitment to the game of football as I did as a union leader. The union continues to have an important role in our game."

In addition, Vincent, whose recommendation of a four-game suspension for Brady in the Deflategate scandal was approved by Goodell, said he does not believe there are other quarterbacks in the league who deflate footballs.

"Somebody has to protect the integrity of the game," Vincent said. "That's my responsibility, to protect and preserve the competitive fairness of professional football. That's why our game is so great, because we protect the integrity of the game."

 

[DaveFan'51]

"Somebody has to protect the integrity of the game,"

So make sure Brady serves his FULL 4 Game Suspension!!! Make an example of him!!!!

 

[Akrasian]

Well, part of the NFLPAs job is to protect individual members - even scum - against unfair actions by the league. If they don't protect the scum, then precedents are set that can be used against actually unfairly punished.

That said - I do wish that appealing a penalty gave the possibility of it actually being increased, instead of only staying the same or decreasing. But that would have to be negotiated in the CBA, and won't happen.

 

[Stranger]

gotta love PR firms

 

[Boston Ram]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...al-action-challenging-roger-goodell-authority

"Look at the amount of money being spent on legal fees for a handful of people," said Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations. "It's millions and millions of dollars, and we've got players that are hurting. We've got young men who don't know how to identify a good financial adviser. Men are in transition who aren't doing well, and yet $8-10 million a year is spent in court fees about who should make a decision on someone, who in some cases has committed a crime.

Yet the NFL spent 5M dollars for Wells to investigate deflated footballs. Cant have it both ways Troy.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Yet the NFL spent 5M dollars for Wells to investigate deflated footballs. Cant have it both ways Troy.

Yeah; but do you not investigate something like that?

Once the league makes a determination, his point is they are throwing more money at an attempt to cut the ruling. It's just a poor allocation of money.

 

[Boston Ram]

Yeah; but do you not investigate something like that?

Once the league makes a determination, his point is they are throwing more money at an attempt to cut the ruling. It's just a poor allocation of money.

Of course you investigate I agree with you, but shouldn't Brady defend himself also? But a 5M report with swiss cheese holes in it. Seems like a waste of money. @jrry32 is going to law school, I bet he and a few classmates could of done a more accurate report for 50K.

We are talking about deflated footballs, if the balls during the game were deflated or under the proper pressure, couldn't they just present the balls and say these X amount of balls are at 10PSI or whatever it was and say because of this we are fining the Patriots whatever the amount should be? Why conduct a 5 month 5M dollar investigation? I hate the Patriots more than anyone here mostly because I live here, but if you take a step back was the offseason of deflategate really worth all this?

This comment from Vincent appears to be related to the Brady thing. So the NFL spends 5M to prove Brady was guilty of deflating footballs and now Brady and the NFLPA are spending crazy dollars to defend himself. I agree with Vincent money could of been spent on much more important things but his association is guilty of the same thing he is accusing the NFLPA of lol.

Don't mean to vent, just so sick of this story lol.

 

[Boston Ram]

Once the league makes a determination, his point is they are throwing more money at an attempt to cut the ruling. It's just a poor allocation of money.

Are you saying he is referring to the investigation as a waste of money also?

 

[CGI_Ram]

This comment from Vincent appears to be related to the Brady thing. So the NFL spends 5M to prove Brady was guilty of deflating footballs and now Brady and the NFLPA are spending crazy dollars to defend himself. I

That's my take too.

Did the investigation really cost $5M for inflate gate?

 

[Boston Ram]

That's my take too.

Did the investigation really cost $5M for inflate gate?

Yes, that was the bill for Ted Wells at least that is what they are saying here locally on the radio.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Yes, that was the bill for Ted Wells at least that is what they are saying here locally on the radio.

How in the world did they spend that much? It almost sounds mathematically impossible unless they flew private jets and spent like pigs.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

i'm guessing 95% of it went into well's pocket.

.

 

[jrry32]

Of course you investigate I agree with you, but shouldn't Brady defend himself also? But a 5M report with swiss cheese holes in it. Seems like a waste of money. @jrry32 is going to law school, I bet he and a few classmates could of done a more accurate report for 50K.

We are talking about deflated footballs, if the balls during the game were deflated or under the proper pressure, couldn't they just present the balls and say these X amount of balls are at 10PSI or whatever it was and say because of this we are fining the Patriots whatever the amount should be? Why conduct a 5 month 5M dollar investigation? I hate the Patriots more than anyone here mostly because I live here, but if you take a step back was the offseason of deflategate really worth all this?

This comment from Vincent appears to be related to the Brady thing. So the NFL spends 5M to prove Brady was guilty of deflating footballs and now Brady and the NFLPA are spending crazy dollars to defend himself. I agree with Vincent money could of been spent on much more important things but his association is guilty of the same thing he is accusing the NFLPA of lol.

Don't mean to vent, just so sick of this story lol.

Yea but that's the NFL's money, it wouldn't be going to players otherwise so it isn't really the same point.

And frankly, the report was pretty damning. I don't know about swiss cheese holes. The thing is that they couldn't suspend Brady and punish the Patriots as severely as they did if they didn't investigate it. So they had to investigate it.

 

[Boston Ram]

Yea but that's the NFL's money, it wouldn't be going to players otherwise so it isn't really the same point.

And frankly, the report was pretty damning. I don't know about swiss cheese holes. The thing is that they couldn't suspend Brady and punish the Patriots as severely as they did if they didn't investigate it. So they had to investigate it.

The only real damning thing about the report was the text message. Ultimately they paid 5M to conclude that "More likely than not" that illegal tampering took place. If you read the AEI report https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/On-the-Wells-report.pdf which was an independent study pokes holes in the science of the Wells report. It basically says, the Patriots did not deflate the balls. If you don't want to read the whole thing just scroll to page 10 under Summary of Findings which extends to page 11.

I still believe they cheated and got what they deserve but back to Vincent and his comment, I still say 5 months and 5M dollars for a report that ultimately proved nothing was a complete waste of money. This report was no more damning than the conclusion they made when the Chargers messed with footballs in 2012 and they didn't need to pay 5M for that penalty.

 

[Boston Ram]

How in the world did they spend that much? It almost sounds mathematically impossible unless they flew private jets and spent like pigs.

Maybe its more than 5M lol.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/19...t-ted-wells-received-over-45-million-from-nfl
How's this for "independent"? According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan show, "Roger Goodell has paid Ted Wells' law firm over $45 million in two investigations."
Those two investigations include the bullying scandal out of Miami and now the manufactured scandal with the Patriots. It is uncertain how much Wells' camp has made by representing the league in their concussion lawsuits. Questions about Wells' independence sparked Wells to make a public announcement.
"The conclusions in the report represent the independent opinions of me personally and my team," Wells stated in a press conference soon after the release of his report. "And those conclusions were not influenced in any way, shape, or form by anyone at the league office."
The press conference continued with the following line of questioning:
Q: I'm curious when you guys do investigations like this are you billing by the hour or is it a flat rate?
Wells: I bill by the hour. All cases.
Q: Any chance you could say what the hours were for this or how much was finally charged for the whole report?
Wells: I don't know off the top of my head but there's no question its millions of dollars.
Q: Any chance you could go a little more specific than that?
Moderator: Not necessary. Next question.
It seems rather unlikely for someone who receives funding from a client to remain fully impartial in their findings- that's just natural- and when the dollars rise to over $45 million, that impartiality deserves to be under greater scrutiny.

 

[Boston Ram]

How in the world did they spend that much? It almost sounds mathematically impossible unless they flew private jets and spent like pigs.

Maybe its more than 5M lol.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/19...t-ted-wells-received-over-45-million-from-nfl
How's this for "independent"? According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan show, "Roger Goodell has paid Ted Wells' law firm over $45 million in two investigations."
Those two investigations include the bullying scandal out of Miami and now the manufactured scandal with the Patriots. It is uncertain how much Wells' camp has made by representing the league in their concussion lawsuits. Questions about Wells' independence sparked Wells to make a public announcement.
"The conclusions in the report represent the independent opinions of me personally and my team," Wells stated in a press conference soon after the release of his report. "And those conclusions were not influenced in any way, shape, or form by anyone at the league office."
The press conference continued with the following line of questioning:
Q: I'm curious when you guys do investigations like this are you billing by the hour or is it a flat rate?
Wells: I bill by the hour. All cases.
Q: Any chance you could say what the hours were for this or how much was finally charged for the whole report?
Wells: I don't know off the top of my head but there's no question its millions of dollars.
Q: Any chance you could go a little more specific than that?
Moderator: Not necessary. Next question.
It seems rather unlikely for someone who receives funding from a client to remain fully impartial in their findings- that's just natural- and when the dollars rise to over $45 million, that impartiality deserves to be under greater scrutiny.

 

[Boston Ram]

How in the world did they spend that much? It almost sounds mathematically impossible unless they flew private jets and spent like pigs.

Maybe its more than 5M lol.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/19...t-ted-wells-received-over-45-million-from-nfl
How's this for "independent"? According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan show, "Roger Goodell has paid Ted Wells' law firm over $45 million in two investigations."
Those two investigations include the bullying scandal out of Miami and now the manufactured scandal with the Patriots. It is uncertain how much Wells' camp has made by representing the league in their concussion lawsuits. Questions about Wells' independence sparked Wells to make a public announcement.
"The conclusions in the report represent the independent opinions of me personally and my team," Wells stated in a press conference soon after the release of his report. "And those conclusions were not influenced in any way, shape, or form by anyone at the league office."
The press conference continued with the following line of questioning:
Q: I'm curious when you guys do investigations like this are you billing by the hour or is it a flat rate?
Wells: I bill by the hour. All cases.
Q: Any chance you could say what the hours were for this or how much was finally charged for the whole report?
Wells: I don't know off the top of my head but there's no question its millions of dollars.
Q: Any chance you could go a little more specific than that?
Moderator: Not necessary. Next question.
It seems rather unlikely for someone who receives funding from a client to remain fully impartial in their findings- that's just natural- and when the dollars rise to over $45 million, that impartiality deserves to be under greater scrutiny.

 

[jrry32]

The only real damning thing about the report was the text message. Ultimately they paid 5M to conclude that "More likely than not" that illegal tampering took place. If you read the AEI report https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/On-the-Wells-report.pdf which was an independent study pokes holes in the science of the Wells report. It basically says, the Patriots did not deflate the balls. If you don't want to read the whole thing just scroll to page 10 under Summary of Findings which extends to page 11.

I still believe they cheated and got what they deserve but back to Vincent and his comment, I still say 5 months and 5M dollars for a report that ultimately proved nothing was a complete waste of money. This report was no more damning than the conclusion they made when the Chargers messed with footballs in 2012 and they didn't need to pay 5M for that penalty.

Boston, the text messages weren't just damning. They were a smoking gun. And "more likely than not" is legalese. The standard the NFL uses is preponderance of the evidence. Which means that it has to be "more likely than not." That's why that language was used. It's more or less the same thing as saying guilty in criminal court.(which uses a higher burden of proof)

As for the Chargers, it's a bad example to bring up. The Chargers were fined $20,000 by the league for refusing to immediately cooperate DESPITE the NFL finding that they did NOT break the rules.

The Patriots did break the rules. They're repeat offenders. And they tried to cover it up. The report was damning. It nailed the Patriots to the wall. It wasn't as damning when it comes to Brady because they didn't have a "smoking gun" for him. But it still made it pretty clear that Brady had knowledge.

 

[Boston Ram]

Boston, the text messages weren't just damning. They were a smoking gun. And "more likely than not" is legalese. The standard the NFL uses is preponderance of the evidence. Which means that it has to be "more likely than not." That's why that language was used. It's more or less the same thing as saying guilty in criminal court.(which uses a higher burden of proof)

As for the Chargers, it's a bad example to bring up. The Chargers were fined $20,000 by the league for refusing to immediately cooperate DESPITE the NFL finding that they did NOT break the rules.

The Patriots did break the rules. They're repeat offenders. And they tried to cover it up. The report was damning. It nailed the Patriots to the wall. It wasn't as damning when it comes to Brady because they didn't have a "smoking gun" for him. But it still made it pretty clear that Brady had knowledge.

I think you may be missing my point and I hate that it sounds like I'm defending the Patroits here because I'm not.

Let me be clear. I have no doubt this has been going on for years with the Patroits. Texts prove that to me. Two time cheaters and maybe more

The science of the Wells report has been proved wrong though based on the link I provided above. Based on the report provided the evidence, the NFL has used as to "nail" the Patroits basically exonerates the Patroits.

They NFL has proven little facts and the only court they have won is the court of public opinion.

I'm sorry the Wells report looks more and more like a joke every day.

If Vincent wants to save money hire a more competent lawyer to do you investigating.

My original point was making fun of Vincent to be clear on this lol

 

[jrry32]

I think you may be missing my point and I hate that it sounds like I'm defending the Patroits here because I'm not.

Let me be clear. I have no doubt this has been going on for years with the Patroits. Texts prove that to me. Two time cheaters and maybe more

The science of the Wells report has been proved wrong though based on the link I provided above. Based on the report provided the evidence, the NFL has used as to "nail" the Patroits basically exonerates the Patroits.

No, it doesn't prove the science wrong. It's two guys presenting their own scientific theory against the NFL's people. Scientists disagree all the time. And the fact is that they can't even validate their theory. They are making an assumption.

They NFL has proven little facts and the only court they have won is the court of public opinion.

The guy had access to the balls, he received a tool that can deflate the balls from the assistant equipment manager (a needle), and there are texts referring to Brady talking bad about him based on the ball's level of inflation. Oh and there's the fact that he called himself "THE DEFLATOR". Boston, that's means, motive, and opportunity all proven along with a confession. Sorry, bud, but that's the case right there. You don't need the science. All you have to show is that the Patriots' balls were way under inflated (which they were) and the texts and you won.

I'm sorry the Wells report looks more and more like a joke every day.

If Vincent wants to save money hire a more competent lawyer to do you investigating.

My original point was making fun of Vincent to be clear on this lol

But Troy Vincent actually had a good point. With all the issues players are having, the NFLPA could be spending that money on helping guys rather than potentially defending a cheater like Brady.(we'll see if it actually has to go to court)

 

[Boston Ram]

No, it doesn't prove the science wrong. It's two guys presenting their own scientific theory against the NFL's people. Scientists disagree all the time. And the fact is that they can't even validate their theory. They are making an assumption.



The guy had access to the balls, he received a tool that can deflate the balls from the assistant equipment manager (a needle), and there are texts referring to Brady talking bad about him based on the ball's level of inflation. Oh and there's the fact that he called himself "THE DEFLATOR". Boston, that's means, motive, and opportunity all proven along with a confession. Sorry, bud, but that's the case right there. You don't need the science. All you have to show is that the Patriots' balls were way under inflated (which they were) and the texts and you won.



But Troy Vincent actually had a good point. With all the issues players are having, the NFLPA could be spending that money on helping guys rather than potentially defending a cheater like Brady.(we'll see if it actually has to go to court)

So why is the science in the Wells report wrong? If scientist disagree then there no proof the Wells report is accurate.

Deflator could mean he deflates balls from 13.5 to 12.5. No proof he is under deflating and based on the AEI report this is proven out. There is no proof of any wrong doing, there is plenty of reasonable doubt.

Vincent is off based. Take a look at the suspensions handed out. Ray Rice, MacDonald, AP, Brady. Because the NFL hands out suspensions without proof or facts sometimes they open themselves to lawsuits for unfair punishments. If players didn't have to worry about 4 game suspensions for smoking a joint or suspended for being accused of something there might not be so many lawsuits against the NFL. Also for the record Kessler has a pretty good record when suing the NFL.

Vincent should worry more about how the NFL handles punishment and not how the players defend themselves. if the NFL handled things better then the players would not have to spend money to right a wrong and could put that money to better use like he suggested.