- Joined
- Mar 31, 2014
- Messages
- 1,513
- Name
- Steve
980+ Words below:
THROWING: (GOFF) Theisman/Montana compared to (WENTZ) Bledsoe/Everett
Throwing is a part of the quarterback's success; I am writing this because I believe Goff is a better thrower, all things included, than Wentz---not a stronger arm. Too many people are writing and saying things as if Goff is inferior to Wentz as a thrower. I say, no. Brains, instincts, athleticism are a huge factor in a QBs success, but I won't examine those here.. Goff's throwing compares it to a hall of famer--Joe Montana, and someone near the hall of fame-Theismann. I played baseball, so I love QBs with Guns, however, after 40+ years of watching 'bad guns' on the Rams, I would rather have Goff who knows how to slide in the pocket, get his feet right, and throw with a quick release, accuracy and high velocity.
Every analyst in the 80s would agree, that Montana and Theismann had enough arm to do what was needed to make multiple probowls. And thus, all things included in throwing like accuracy, release time, and ball placement lead me to say that Goff is the better thrower than Wentz. Just doesn't have the howitzer, and who cares. Yes, Goff may have the 29th best arm strength of 32 starting NFL QBs, but JOe Montana and Joe T. had the arm strength in the 21st to 24th range out of 28 starting qbs in the 1980s.
Bledsoe/Everett vs Theisman/Montana then comparing Goff:
Summary: Goff compares to Theismann in the way he uses his feet in almost every throw. He is never, ever static. BLedsoe was so strong and he didn't need his whole body to make a throw like THeismann and Goff do. Bledsoe threw with his feet in bad positions a lot, but got away with it-- alot. Bledsoe, like Jim Everett, could make soft throws--and they didn't need high velocity arm whipping action to accomplish this. THeismann and Goff whip the ball with high velocity arm speed, even on balls at 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Theismann threw from the ankles to the knee to the hip, torso and then shoulders and then he had high velocity delivery. Goff is similar and whips his wrist--former baseballer. Joe T. threw with every muscle he had. And, every throw he made, even the flairs to the running backs were thrown at 'his' highest level of velocity. Joe didn't have much zip on balls to the sideline and he had to have everything perfectly aligned (footwork etc) to make a good sideline throw. Theismann had even better feet than Montana--he was a punt returner when he came in to the league.
And, the thing about Joe T.: He made every throw with his feet in excellent position. If he couldn't get his feet right, he couldn't throw. Having watched 40+ Redskin 80's games in the last 2 years I believe this is true. Very, very few QBs throw at "their" full velocity on every throw like THeismann did. YOu have to be a very accurate QB to do this. Alex Smith kind of does this, too....he has a semi-weak arm, like THeismann. Watch the tape of Theismann and compare him to QBs of his day before you respond.
Goff: like Theisman, has feet in perfect position,throws full motion, full velocity every throw even the RB-flair patterns 10-15 yards away (from the 4 games I saw). He rifles it to the running backs at perfect locations and they don't need to break stride. Sometimes Ferragamo did this to Dickerson, and it was deadly (sometimes). Goff is 6'4" while Theismann was 6'0" and 182 pounds.
Montana didn't have the high velocity like Goff or Theismann, especially after 1986, but he was so accurate with his (soft-ish) throws that if the ball took longer to get there it was ok. It helped that he had so many good TEs and RBs who could catch the ball 'uncovered', but they were in perfect stride.
Goff, like Montana, can throw very well on the run---though Goff has higher velocity. Montana had amazing(!) feet in the pocket and that helped him reset, but like Goff he had a lot of mediocre throws when the pass rush came down hard (see 1990 NFC champ game vs Giants). Goff also can fit the ball in tight spaces because he does have a pretty strong velocity on the ball (Montana didn't after his first 5-6 years in the league)
Bledsoe: Of course he used his feet and hips well, but you can see his "timing" in his throws came from teh torso up. He didn't have to get his feet 'right' to be successful. THeismann and Goff must get their feet right or they throw wobbly balls and ducks and have no power or 'mustard' on the throws. To me, Wentz is a lot like Bledsoe, in a good way. Everyone says Wentz is athletic, but his feet in the pocket are nothing even remotely as good as Goff's. Also, Kurt Warner didn't have as strong an arm as Goff, did he?
Everett: Like Bledsoe, a great thrower of soft and long and rifle passes. He really worked on his feet with Zampese after the 1987 season, I believe, and also worked on releasing the ball at 2.3 to 2.7 seconds in practice. This made him probowl level in 1988-1989. He could make all the throws and had a nice soft on target pass to the running backs (flair) that few could match.
Everett like Wentz was a great pocket thrower, but he wasn't the athlete Wentz is and you will notice that Everett sometimes couldn't get his feet right.
Brains beat Arms (see Bernie Kosar):
I believe in Wentz and Goff because of their brains much more than their arms. Haath Shuler was a great thrower of the ball, but he was afraid and didn't have the 'other' stuff'. Wentz and Goff do.
A 36 on the wonderlic by Goff should tell us a lot. Manning had 28, Brady 31 (by memory). Watch Goff's feet and you will see his brains.
THROWING: (GOFF) Theisman/Montana compared to (WENTZ) Bledsoe/Everett
Throwing is a part of the quarterback's success; I am writing this because I believe Goff is a better thrower, all things included, than Wentz---not a stronger arm. Too many people are writing and saying things as if Goff is inferior to Wentz as a thrower. I say, no. Brains, instincts, athleticism are a huge factor in a QBs success, but I won't examine those here.. Goff's throwing compares it to a hall of famer--Joe Montana, and someone near the hall of fame-Theismann. I played baseball, so I love QBs with Guns, however, after 40+ years of watching 'bad guns' on the Rams, I would rather have Goff who knows how to slide in the pocket, get his feet right, and throw with a quick release, accuracy and high velocity.
Every analyst in the 80s would agree, that Montana and Theismann had enough arm to do what was needed to make multiple probowls. And thus, all things included in throwing like accuracy, release time, and ball placement lead me to say that Goff is the better thrower than Wentz. Just doesn't have the howitzer, and who cares. Yes, Goff may have the 29th best arm strength of 32 starting NFL QBs, but JOe Montana and Joe T. had the arm strength in the 21st to 24th range out of 28 starting qbs in the 1980s.
Bledsoe/Everett vs Theisman/Montana then comparing Goff:
Summary: Goff compares to Theismann in the way he uses his feet in almost every throw. He is never, ever static. BLedsoe was so strong and he didn't need his whole body to make a throw like THeismann and Goff do. Bledsoe threw with his feet in bad positions a lot, but got away with it-- alot. Bledsoe, like Jim Everett, could make soft throws--and they didn't need high velocity arm whipping action to accomplish this. THeismann and Goff whip the ball with high velocity arm speed, even on balls at 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Theismann threw from the ankles to the knee to the hip, torso and then shoulders and then he had high velocity delivery. Goff is similar and whips his wrist--former baseballer. Joe T. threw with every muscle he had. And, every throw he made, even the flairs to the running backs were thrown at 'his' highest level of velocity. Joe didn't have much zip on balls to the sideline and he had to have everything perfectly aligned (footwork etc) to make a good sideline throw. Theismann had even better feet than Montana--he was a punt returner when he came in to the league.
And, the thing about Joe T.: He made every throw with his feet in excellent position. If he couldn't get his feet right, he couldn't throw. Having watched 40+ Redskin 80's games in the last 2 years I believe this is true. Very, very few QBs throw at "their" full velocity on every throw like THeismann did. YOu have to be a very accurate QB to do this. Alex Smith kind of does this, too....he has a semi-weak arm, like THeismann. Watch the tape of Theismann and compare him to QBs of his day before you respond.
Goff: like Theisman, has feet in perfect position,throws full motion, full velocity every throw even the RB-flair patterns 10-15 yards away (from the 4 games I saw). He rifles it to the running backs at perfect locations and they don't need to break stride. Sometimes Ferragamo did this to Dickerson, and it was deadly (sometimes). Goff is 6'4" while Theismann was 6'0" and 182 pounds.
Montana didn't have the high velocity like Goff or Theismann, especially after 1986, but he was so accurate with his (soft-ish) throws that if the ball took longer to get there it was ok. It helped that he had so many good TEs and RBs who could catch the ball 'uncovered', but they were in perfect stride.
Goff, like Montana, can throw very well on the run---though Goff has higher velocity. Montana had amazing(!) feet in the pocket and that helped him reset, but like Goff he had a lot of mediocre throws when the pass rush came down hard (see 1990 NFC champ game vs Giants). Goff also can fit the ball in tight spaces because he does have a pretty strong velocity on the ball (Montana didn't after his first 5-6 years in the league)
Bledsoe: Of course he used his feet and hips well, but you can see his "timing" in his throws came from teh torso up. He didn't have to get his feet 'right' to be successful. THeismann and Goff must get their feet right or they throw wobbly balls and ducks and have no power or 'mustard' on the throws. To me, Wentz is a lot like Bledsoe, in a good way. Everyone says Wentz is athletic, but his feet in the pocket are nothing even remotely as good as Goff's. Also, Kurt Warner didn't have as strong an arm as Goff, did he?
Everett: Like Bledsoe, a great thrower of soft and long and rifle passes. He really worked on his feet with Zampese after the 1987 season, I believe, and also worked on releasing the ball at 2.3 to 2.7 seconds in practice. This made him probowl level in 1988-1989. He could make all the throws and had a nice soft on target pass to the running backs (flair) that few could match.
Everett like Wentz was a great pocket thrower, but he wasn't the athlete Wentz is and you will notice that Everett sometimes couldn't get his feet right.
Brains beat Arms (see Bernie Kosar):
I believe in Wentz and Goff because of their brains much more than their arms. Haath Shuler was a great thrower of the ball, but he was afraid and didn't have the 'other' stuff'. Wentz and Goff do.
A 36 on the wonderlic by Goff should tell us a lot. Manning had 28, Brady 31 (by memory). Watch Goff's feet and you will see his brains.
