The things that lead to the Rams offensive woes (a lot of hindsight in this thread)

[FRO]

-Picking Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/could-hue-jackson-join-jeff-fisher-in-st-louis/

Jackson is one of the better OCs in the league and will probably be a HC next year. He helped develop Joe Flacco. Schottenheimer was a failure in his time here.

-The 2012 second round

Brian Quick and Isaiah Pead have both proven to be busts. In all fairness the second round I advocated for was Colby Fleener, Janoris Jenkins, and Rueben Randle. Better, but not much better. Missing on those two picks made the 2012 second round absent of offensive starters. Chris Givens and Daryl Richardson had their moments, but flamed out after their rookie years. Also we all know how Fisher and Snead got cute with the 45th pick. They wanted Wagoner, but added a 5th round pick which ended up as Pead.

- Signing Jared Cook

I left Jake Long off of the list, because he was pretty good in 2013, but injuries to his knee ruined him. His contract was structured so it was basically only a two year deal. Jared Cook however was given big money to be a game changing TE. He was in his first game. He has had a few other nice games. On the whole he has been inconsistent and mediocre. His poor blocking doesn't fit the power run scheme.

- 2013 trade up for Tavon Austin

It was a move I loved at the time, but reports had the Rams likely to take Austin or Hopkins. They moved up and got Austin, they could have stayed pat with Hopkins who was the better player. In the trade up the Rams lost their second round pick, a pick where their backup plan for the Ogletree pick, Larry Warford, would have been there. Instead of having Hopkins and Warford, we ended up with Austin, who has developed into a nice big play guy, but hasn't developed as a WR.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/22/deandre-hopkins-has-second-visit-with-the-rams/

- Picking Greg Robinson 2nd overall in 2014

Robinson is a huge guy who has freakish athleticism. He was a monster in the run game in college. He also played in a college system where there was no playbook and that didn't pass much at all. He was very raw from a technical standpoint. Drafting a raw player number 2 overall is risky. The Robinson pick is far from settled, but early reviews do not look promising. The Rams passed a nice trade offer from the Bills on the pick.

- Just missing on the trade up for Zach Martin

The Rams just missed getting a pro bowl caliber OG when the Cowboys selected Martin. Had Jerry got his way Manziel would have been the pick and the Rams would have their OG. We got Joyner and Mason instead, both nice players in their own right, but probably will never be the quality of Martin.

- Sam Bradford's knee

In 2013 Bradford was having his best year and was in the middle of a game where he was looking better than ever. Things were starting to go the way they should with him. Then douchebag Mike Mitchell hit him while he was trying to get out of bounds. The knee tore. Bradford then had his best camp and was looking great in his 2014 preseason, then on an innocent play he tears his knee again. Had Bradford not tore his knee the first time I contend we wouldn't have a QB issue. It got tore twice and so we do.

- Going with an inexperienced line in 2015

They had no choice but to, but the problem is because they really didn't address the problem in rounds 1-3 in 2012 and 2013 when they had a multitude of picks, we were stuck having to go young. In the long run this move will pay huge dividends provided the picked correctly. Brown and Havenstien look like they have potential to be solid. Both are hurt limiting their growth. Waiting until year 4 to address the line in the draft was a mistake.

 

[Antonius]

It's an absolute comedy of errors when it comes to the Rams futile attempts to build an NFL offense, but I'll add resigning Roger Saffold.

There are still Rams fans looking forward to him coming back next year, like he's not made out of glass. The guy is the Sam Bradford of lineman. Always hurt, and actually-maybe not really that good to begin with.

But of course, we resign Saffold after the Raiders recognize this, he (surprise) gets hurt, and people still want him back. Maddening.

 

[-X-]

Lotta stuff to talk about there, but I'm about to make a 4 hour road trip back home.
Looking forward to discussing it when I get back.

 

[Stel]

Hard not to look back at that 2012 second round. I was screaming at my TV for Cordy Glenn. My round was Glenn, Jenkins, and a WR (depending on who was there - Quick, Randle, Jeffrey). The failure to take Glenn had a cascade affect. With Glenn, we wouldn't have felt the pressure to go after Long, and after Long went downhill, to draft Robinson.

I didn't have anything against Austin but I hated the trade up.

 

[HeiseNBerg]

Letting Joe Barksdale get away leaps to mind....maybe Wells was done, and that's fine. But they should've made a better effort to bring back Bazooka Joe.

 

[-X-]

Letting Joe Barksdale get away leaps to mind....maybe Wells was done, and that's fine. But they should've made a better effort to bring back Bazooka Joe.

Didn't he leave for less money?

 

[HeiseNBerg]

Didn't he leave for less money?

Did he? I honestly don't know what the Rams and Chargers were offering.

 

[rdlkgliders]

@-X- Travel safe my friend it is a crazy and often impatient crowd this time of year.

 

[-X-]

Did he? I honestly don't know what the Rams and Chargers were offering.

Yeah.

He initially overestimated his worth, and the Rams were willing to pay him. Just not at the ungodly amount he wanted. Maybe that pissed him off, and maybe he felt threatened when they drafted Havenstein. Who knows.

 

[BonifayRam]

-The 2012 second round......Brian Quick and Isaiah Pead have both proven to be busts. In all fairness the second round I advocated for was Colby Fleener, Janoris Jenkins, and Rueben Randle. Better, but not much better. Missing on those two picks made the 2012 second round absent of offensive starters. ........Also we all know how Fisher and Snead got cute with the 45th pick. They wanted Wagoner, but added a 5th round pick which ended up as Pead.................Waiting until year 4 to address the line in the draft was a mistake.

I would like to just add to the two points I picked out above. The selections of Quick & Pead look to me to have been major players in this teams non production. Snead/Fishers miss on these two prospects loom big today in our OL when they could have easily selected OLT Gordy Glenn with the 33rd (Quick) pick & ORG Kelechi Osemele with the 50th (Pead) pick instead. The OL would have been a totally different animal from 2012 on.

Jeff Fisher did make one attempt to address the OL before yr 4 with the GRob selection so he did do that but here's back to your point here....when JF had 13 selections in the 2012-2013 & 2014 drafts where JF has 13 picks on the most important days of the NFL draft (day one & day two) & JF deploys only 1 of the 13 picks on on a OL'er????uke:You should expect to have production from your OL in Year Four [JF].

 

[-X-]

@-X- Travel safe my friend it is a crazy and often impatient crowd this time of year.

Thanks, dude.
And ...... it's raining all across both Carolinas.

yayyyyyyyyy.

 

[Rmfnlt]

The only thing about how we got here that is important to me is WHO orchestrated it.

 

[Hey Man]

Got posts you guys, and also good memories you all have. I know we are all disappointed in the season we are having with the offense. I thought the trade for Foles would have put us were we needed to be this year. I live in the Philly burbs and seen all his games as an Eagle. to say I was excited was a under statement. Plus it saved the money. What can we do moving forward to improve ? Get that wide out we been missing on ? The stud tight end with great route running and hands ? The QB to get us to the next level ? A proven OC ?

 

[FrankenRam]

We can debate the past all day long for individual actions taken (or lack thereof). But for me, the bottom line is that almost nothing Snisher have done to attempt to improve the offense has worked.

- From the signing of OL FA's to the drafting of same.
- Not one of the WR's they've signed/drafted have shown any consistency. I'm leaving Tavon out of this only because I view him as more of a hybrid 'weapon' than a true WR.
- And then there's the QB issues from Sam's knees to trading for Foles.
- The only O position I think they've had reasonable success with is RB. But even there, the Pead bust is a significant negative.

All in all, while some are furious with Fisher over the O's ineptness, I almost feel sorry for the guy. It's not like he hasn't addressed the offensive side of the ball...even if they didn't address it in ways a lot of fans agree with. If even half the O FA signings and/or draft picks had panned out to be 'solid contributors' (I'm not even asking for superstars), the Rams' O would probably be 'good enough' to at least get them to the playoffs. But the football gods have just farted on anything and everything they do for O player acquisition. It's stunning to me how 'unlucky' they've been, and I'm not much of a believer in such things.

 

[OntarioRam]

Every team has misses at the draft. Snisher has been decent overall at the draft table, so I won't harp too much on the dreadful 2nd round in 2012. Although it certainly has set us back.

It's still too early to tell with Robinson. Plus, without the benefit of hindsight, I don't mind the pick at all. And I don't mind the Austin trade for reasons expressed in another thread.

In my opinion, by far the two biggest reasons for our current state are: (1) poor free agent decisions, and (2) the shocking refusal to develop a contingency plan for Bradford in the event of injury.

First, the FA signings. Some were just plain poor decisions. Some were ruined by injuries. Regardless, it has hurt us badly. Just look at the cap dollars invested and where those dollars were allocated. Jared Cook. Scott Wells. Jake Long. Saffold. Imagine if instead of four duds we had three impact linemen and one impact TE? As a run first team, and given the strength of our defence, we'd be well on our way with that! Dare I say Super Bowl contenders, given that successful FA signings would have let us spend the #2 overall pick used on Robinson on a different position? For that matter, it also would have spent most of our 2014 draft elsewhere than o-line....

Regarding QB, everyone knew we needed a bona fide prospect at the position. That was the case for multiple years running. Some wanted a player able to start immediately to turn the page on Bradford ASAP. Other wanted to stick with Bradford but make sure we had a blue chip guy waiting in the wings to groom for a year or two, functioning as an emergency starter in case of injury. Carr and Bridgewater (and to a lesser extent, Garoppolo) were all either available or within range such that a trade up wouldn't have been hard to execute. Snisher has been active with trading picks on draft day to move up and snag players. Yet somehow, with QB - the most important position in football - they opted to stop being aggressive? It's mind boggling. Instead, they went for Lamarcus Joyner when the defence was already strong and they have an affinity for developing "lesser knows" on that side of the ball.

In the end, both mistakes are pretty inexcusable. How can you for multiple years leave the most important position in football (QB) totally unaddressed at worst, and addressed but only as an after-thought at best? For the FAs, again, that's pretty bad. How can you miss that badly and that often? The draft is always a bit of a crapshoot. But UFAs are established, veteran players. How can you consistently evaluate that talent so poorly that you fail to land not only very good players (which you should be for the $$), but even solid contributors?

 

[BonifayRam]

The only thing about how we got here that is important to me is WHO orchestrated it.

Do you mean that WHO should be held responsible for this current siche-e-ation? Does anyone do that anymore......That's not PC is it?

 

[OldSchool]

Shoulda woulda coulda

 

[Athos]

I've already made the contention that drafting one side of the ball with virtual every premium pick was a disaster. Just a failed strategy.

Having a nasty D is great but where has it gotten us? Are people naive enough to think that that all of these studs will wanna stay with this terrible team when they could move on and join a team that wins.

Or just get paid. Not me.

You can't win NFL games without an offense. Gotta score points. I'll take an average D to slightly above, somewhere in the top 15, and a top ten O every time.

Even better... Just a team that forces a lot of turnovers and a legit offense. It's not hard.

But the pooch was screwed.

Shoulda drafted a QB heir... Carr.
Should have gotten linemen sooner.
Should have gotten a WR that could get open by himself without a million play games and win a jump ball.

I can talk more... But what's the point?

 

[DCH]

-Picking Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/could-hue-jackson-join-jeff-fisher-in-st-louis/

Jackson is one of the better OCs in the league and will probably be a HC next year. He helped develop Joe Flacco. Schottenheimer was a failure in his time here.

Lots of issues with Schott, to be sure. It's almost a shame Fisher didn't try to keep McDaniel around, with an actual offseason to install the system and a healthy Sam Bradford. Also we heard plenty of rumors of Norv Turner coming to work with Fisher, and that would have been fantastic. He's also established enough that he should be able to control the offense, rather than Fisher controlling it through him (like Schotty and Cignetti)

-The 2012 second round

Brian Quick and Isaiah Pead have both proven to be busts. In all fairness the second round I advocated for was Colby Fleener, Janoris Jenkins, and Rueben Randle. Better, but not much better. Missing on those two picks made the 2012 second round absent of offensive starters. Chris Givens and Daryl Richardson had their moments, but flamed out after their rookie years. Also we all know how Fisher and Snead got cute with the 45th pick. They wanted Wagoner, but added a 5th round pick which ended up as Pead.

I don't take a ton of issue with those picks. I wanted Stephen Hill, Jenkins and Cordy Glenn. We couldn't have gotten all 3 of them, but my WR pick was actually way worse than Quick. There wasn't much "sure-fire" offensively there. I'd say that the 1st round in 2012 would have been better with my choice, David DeCastro... but Fisher builds from the DL out, and an OL with his first pick was unlikely.

- Signing Jared Cook

I left Jake Long off of the list, because he was pretty good in 2013, but injuries to his knee ruined him. His contract was structured so it was basically only a two year deal. Jared Cook however was given big money to be a game changing TE. He was in his first game. He has had a few other nice games. On the whole he has been inconsistent and mediocre. His poor blocking doesn't fit the power run scheme.

Oddly, Cook has been arguably our best weapon in the passing game since he was signed. Is he living up to his contract? Certainly not. Is he living up to his talent? Fuck no. But he's not hurt the offense by being out there, and his contract hasn't really hobbled the team in any meaningful way.

- 2013 trade up for Tavon Austin

It was a move I loved at the time, but reports had the Rams likely to take Austin or Hopkins. They moved up and got Austin, they could have stayed pat with Hopkins who was the better player. In the trade up the Rams lost their second round pick, a pick where their backup plan for the Ogletree pick, Larry Warford, would have been there. Instead of having Hopkins and Warford, we ended up with Austin, who has developed into a nice big play guy, but hasn't developed as a WR.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/22/deandre-hopkins-has-second-visit-with-the-rams/

I hated this move. Mostly because I hate trading up, and partly because I thought Hopkins or Justin Hunter was the better WR. Also because I had a hard-on for either Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack that year. Yes, I've been beating the drum for a top G. Warford hurts the most... I kinda expected them to go with a safety like Cyprien or Reid followed by a WR (Hopkins/Hunter) followed by Warford in the 2nd. 'Course, I was scared to death of 'Tree as a prospect, and he's been fantastic.

- Picking Greg Robinson 2nd overall in 2014

Robinson is a huge guy who has freakish athleticism. He was a monster in the run game in college. He also played in a college system where there was no playbook and that didn't pass much at all. He was very raw from a technical standpoint. Drafting a raw player number 2 overall is risky. The Robinson pick is far from settled, but early reviews do not look promising. The Rams passed a nice trade offer from the Bills on the pick.

Upside vs. immediate production, I tend to lean towards upside, because drafting for band-aid quick fixes is short-term thinking. That said, I thought GRob would be much better than he is. He just seems so lost out there. You'd expect him to be able to maul in the run game, but he hasn't. I will defend the pick, but it's not working out for us.

- Just missing on the trade up for Zach Martin

The Rams just missed getting a pro bowl caliber OG when the Cowboys selected Martin. Had Jerry got his way Manziel would have been the pick and the Rams would have their OG. We got Joyner and Mason instead, both nice players in their own right, but probably will never be the quality of Martin.

Yeah, that hurts. Although Joyner is a solid part of a secondary that is now a team strength, and we may be losing Jenkins and Johnson this offseason, so... I'll not complain about those picks.

- Sam Bradford's knee

In 2013 Bradford was having his best year and was in the middle of a game where he was looking better than ever. Things were starting to go the way they should with him. Then douchebag Mike Mitchell hit him while he was trying to get out of bounds. The knee tore. Bradford then had his best camp and was looking great in his 2014 preseason, then on an innocent play he tears his knee again. Had Bradford not tore his knee the first time I contend we wouldn't have a QB issue. It got tore twice and so we do.

Yeah, although we should have drafted a serious backup. Hill was a good vet signing, but we did by choice leave ourselves without any kind of upside developmental QB before Mannion.

- Going with an inexperienced line in 2015

They had no choice but to, but the problem is because they really didn't address the problem in rounds 1-3 in 2012 and 2013 when they had a multitude of picks, we were stuck having to go young. In the long run this move will pay huge dividends provided the picked correctly. Brown and Havenstien look like they have potential to be solid. Both are hurt limiting their growth. Waiting until year 4 to address the line in the draft was a mistake.

I don't think they had no choice... the fact that they didn't sign any vets to start is just dumb, in my opinion. Of course, signing vets hurt them - see Long and Wells - and some of the big FA signings have bombed for other teams this past offseason - see James Carpenter. But Stefan Wisniewski would have been an ideal guy to bring in, and letting Barksdale walk was not my favorite move. Shame about Saffold, but his career with the Rams may well be done due to injury and ineffective play when healthy.

 

[FRO]

As far as drafting a QB behind Sam, I can see their side. 2012 we had too many holes to even think about it. There were some good options in that draft. 2013 was a horrible draft clas. 2014 had Carr going before we picked. Garappolo may have been a good choice, but Joyner is a solid slot CB. I wish they would have traded up for Murray or McCarron in the 5th, but if we were to trade up for them then we wouldn't have got EJ Gaines. 2015 we picked Mannion. I wanted Grayson instead. Neither will probably be starters in the league.

To me the biggest failure was not investing draft picks in the line until 2014 with Robinson (to me day three prospects aren't really an investment due to the super high bust rate). Another huge failure is missing out on getting a quality WR. Jeffrey and Hilton in 2012. Hopkins and Allen in 2013. Too many to mention in 2014. The line and WR was our biggest needs when they inherited the team in 2012 and they are still massive voids now.