That Delay Of Game Penalty On The FG Was CLOSE..

[PhxRam]

Might be hard to see from stills. Looks like the snap had started prior to the time expiring.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

i've seen plenty of late snaps let go. this one was almost simultaneous. ridiculous decision by the ref. they were appalling in overtime.

.

 

[Stranger]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

 

[-X-]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

I disagree. That USED to be pretty prevalent, but it's not so much anymore. I know for a fact they were because of an affiliation my family once had. But again, it's almost impossible to get away with that now. You might get one official who has a financial interest in the outcome, but you'll never get an entire officiating crew to shave points via obvious bad calls. And with the way the plays are micro-analyzed and the way officials are policed by the NFL via official complaints submitted by coaches, there's no way they can decide outcomes on their own.

 

[Stranger]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

I disagree. That USED to be pretty prevalent, but it's not so much anymore. I know for a fact they were because of an affiliation my family once had. But again, it's almost impossible to get away with that now. You might get one official who has a financial interest in the outcome, but you'll never get an entire officiating crew to shave points via obvious bad calls. And with the way the plays are micro-analyzed and the way officials are policed by the NFL via official complaints submitted by coaches, there's no way they can decide outcomes on their own.

All it takes is one official per crew, X. As an example, Bernie Kukar single-handedly changed the outcome of SB36. Further, its not necessarily blatent (except in the instance of Kukar & SB36). It's incrementally small interpretations & judgements. For example, as PhxRam points out, we've all seen unflagged plays where the ball is snapped as the play-clock turns to zero... the official did NOT have to throw that flag. Further, we've all seen obvious penalties on big plays where the penalty is simply "missed" or "overlooked" by the officials. For example, the officials did not have to throw an illegal formation flag on Amendola's 70+yd reception in OT.... who would have noticed?

In summary, there is significant room to call or not call penalties depending on official bias. What I'm arguing is that this bias almost never seems random.

 

[-X-]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

I disagree. That USED to be pretty prevalent, but it's not so much anymore. I know for a fact they were because of an affiliation my family once had. But again, it's almost impossible to get away with that now. You might get one official who has a financial interest in the outcome, but you'll never get an entire officiating crew to shave points via obvious bad calls. And with the way the plays are micro-analyzed and the way officials are policed by the NFL via official complaints submitted by coaches, there's no way they can decide outcomes on their own.

All it takes is one official per crew, X. As an example, Bernie Kukar single-handedly changed the outcome of SB36. Further, its not necessarily blatent (except in the instance of Kukar & SB36). It's incrementally small interpretations & judgements. For example, as PhxRam points out, we've all seen unflagged plays where the ball is snapped as the play-clock turns to zero... the official did NOT have to throw that flag. Further, we've all seen obvious penalties on big plays where the penalty is simply "missed" or "overlooked" by the officials. For example, the officials did not have to throw an illegal formation flag on Amendola's 70+yd reception in OT.... who would have noticed?

In summary, there is significant room to call or not call penalties depending on official bias. What I'm arguing is that this bias almost never seems random.

I can respect that POV. And you may have a point. But that's a LARGE accusation to make and I would think it would need to be substantiated in some way. I'm just saying it would be an enormous black mark on the NFL were that ever to come to light, and you'd think *The Shield* would be doing everything in their power to keep that from happening. That said, maybe you're right. For all we know there is a Tim Donaghy type in the NFL right now and he could, single-handedly, bring down the Sport.

Think about it.

If it were EVER to come out that there was a referee or umpire in the league who had mob ties or was pressured to alter the outcome of the game, then every conspiracy theory out there would be proven correct, and NFL games (as a whole) would never be viewed as legitimate again. Now could the NFL really afford to have something like that happen? I just think that there are too many safeguards in place to let that happen.

You know, IMO.

 

[Stranger]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

I disagree. That USED to be pretty prevalent, but it's not so much anymore. I know for a fact they were because of an affiliation my family once had. But again, it's almost impossible to get away with that now. You might get one official who has a financial interest in the outcome, but you'll never get an entire officiating crew to shave points via obvious bad calls. And with the way the plays are micro-analyzed and the way officials are policed by the NFL via official complaints submitted by coaches, there's no way they can decide outcomes on their own.

All it takes is one official per crew, X. As an example, Bernie Kukar single-handedly changed the outcome of SB36. Further, its not necessarily blatent (except in the instance of Kukar & SB36). It's incrementally small interpretations & judgements. For example, as PhxRam points out, we've all seen unflagged plays where the ball is snapped as the play-clock turns to zero... the official did NOT have to throw that flag. Further, we've all seen obvious penalties on big plays where the penalty is simply "missed" or "overlooked" by the officials. For example, the officials did not have to throw an illegal formation flag on Amendola's 70+yd reception in OT.... who would have noticed?

In summary, there is significant room to call or not call penalties depending on official bias. What I'm arguing is that this bias almost never seems random.

I can respect that POV. And you may have a point. But that's a LARGE accusation to make and I would think it would need to be substantiated in some way. I'm just saying it would be an enormous black mark on the NFL were that ever to come to light, and you'd think *The Shield* would be doing everything in their power to keep that from happening. That said, maybe you're right. For all we know there is a Tim Donaghy type in the NFL right now and he could, single-handedly, bring down the Sport.

Think about it.

If it were EVER to come out that there was a referee or umpire in the league who had mob ties or was pressured to alter the outcome of the game, then every conspiracy theory out there would be proven correct, and NFL games (as a whole) would never be viewed as legitimate again. Now could the NFL really afford to have something like that happen? I just think that there are too many safeguards in place to let that happen.

You know, IMO.

I agree that something like this is too big to reveal. But then again, all it takes is a few individual refs being placed in key games. Very few people are needed, or need to know.

Besides, with everyone in the sport making so much money, virtually no one has any incentive to upset the apple cart, even if they were to learn of this.

PS. Hey Phx, is there any way to review that play again to see if the play clock is synched with the game clock? I'm just wondering if "someone" could have speed-up the play clock just a little on that play. Or, was the game clock actually stopped for some reason (but there was not time-out, right?). I just don't get why the game clock is at 2:54 in both of your images.

 

[Ram Quixote]

IMO, the officials were influenced toward the home team. This would explain the late flags.

Ref: that might have been a block in the back but I'd rather not call it. Oh shit. 62-yard return, gotta throw it.

Ref: well, receiver's not on the line but that's minor. Let 'em play ... oh crap. Better late than never.

 

[-X-]

IMO, the officials were influenced toward the home team. This would explain the late flags.

Ref: that might have been a block in the back but I'd rather not call it. Oh shit. 62-yard return, gotta throw it.

Ref: well, receiver's not on the line but that's minor. Let 'em play ... oh crap. Better late than never.

Yeah, but that should never be a factor. These are officiating crews that travel around from State to State officiating games. The hell should they care if they get boo'd? That's part of the game, and if they don't have thick enough skin for that, then they can find a new profession. I do think that these particular officials were easily influenced though. Harballs was lobbying for a couple of those flags and he got'm. I do NOT think that there was any foul play involved because the point spread was too great. Late in the 4th and into OT, it wouldn't matter who scored. That spread was never getting covered.

 

[RamFan503]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the clock crew (or whatever they're called) hired by the home team? I heard once and I think again how screwed up the time keeping was in this game. Isn't this the second year in a row that the time keeping was fishy during the Ram game? Weren't there several comments about it during the Whiner/Aints playoff game last year? I'm sure Fish and Co. have already looked at that delay of game to see if the clock was operated correctly. Sure seems that time keeping can have subtle yet very real effects on how a game is played in key spots.

I will diagree with you on one other front there Paul. I think refs key in on certain things more toward one team than another. Be it to not piss off the home crowd, preferrence in one team over another, or the old payola, the reason doesn't really matter to me. I'm just not convinced that the ref scrutinizes the position of a 49er player on that long pass to Danny. I'm also not convinced the ref jerks that delay flag on the FG. Though it may not be the crew conspiring to throw a game, it does put one team at a decided disadvantage.

 

[PhxRam]

1. Why is game clock at 2:54 in both stills?
2. After watching for 40yrs, there is no one who can convince me that Officials are NOT paid to alter outcomes.

I disagree. That USED to be pretty prevalent, but it's not so much anymore. I know for a fact they were because of an affiliation my family once had. But again, it's almost impossible to get away with that now. You might get one official who has a financial interest in the outcome, but you'll never get an entire officiating crew to shave points via obvious bad calls. And with the way the plays are micro-analyzed and the way officials are policed by the NFL via official complaints submitted by coaches, there's no way they can decide outcomes on their own.

All it takes is one official per crew, X. As an example, Bernie Kukar single-handedly changed the outcome of SB36. Further, its not necessarily blatent (except in the instance of Kukar & SB36). It's incrementally small interpretations & judgements. For example, as PhxRam points out, we've all seen unflagged plays where the ball is snapped as the play-clock turns to zero... the official did NOT have to throw that flag. Further, we've all seen obvious penalties on big plays where the penalty is simply "missed" or "overlooked" by the officials. For example, the officials did not have to throw an illegal formation flag on Amendola's 70+yd reception in OT.... who would have noticed?

In summary, there is significant room to call or not call penalties depending on official bias. What I'm arguing is that this bias almost never seems random.

I can respect that POV. And you may have a point. But that's a LARGE accusation to make and I would think it would need to be substantiated in some way. I'm just saying it would be an enormous black mark on the NFL were that ever to come to light, and you'd think *The Shield* would be doing everything in their power to keep that from happening. That said, maybe you're right. For all we know there is a Tim Donaghy type in the NFL right now and he could, single-handedly, bring down the Sport.

Think about it.

If it were EVER to come out that there was a referee or umpire in the league who had mob ties or was pressured to alter the outcome of the game, then every conspiracy theory out there would be proven correct, and NFL games (as a whole) would never be viewed as legitimate again. Now could the NFL really afford to have something like that happen? I just think that there are too many safeguards in place to let that happen.

You know, IMO.

I agree that something like this is too big to reveal. But then again, all it takes is a few individual refs being placed in key games. Very few people are needed, or need to know.

Besides, with everyone in the sport making so much money, virtually no one has any incentive to upset the apple cart, even if they were to learn of this.

PS. Hey Phx, is there any way to review that play again to see if the play clock is synched with the game clock? I'm just wondering if "someone" could have speed-up the play clock just a little on that play. Or, was the game clock actually stopped for some reason (but there was not time-out, right?). I just don't get why the game clock is at 2:54 in both of your images.

give me a few and a will do a super slow mo of the play.

 

[Stranger]

Yup, clock issues certainly have cropped-up before. We had this issue during Brady's 2-min drill in SB36, with Kukar stopping the clock even thought it was clear that the Patriot player was still inbounds, and didn't we also have a clock "issue" in Detroit that basically gave the Lions an opportunity to win that game late.

 

[PhxRam]

I kept the audio because I thought it sounded like Harrey Caray.. :lmao:

Make sure to flip to hd.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7r3ve4GZY[/youtube]

 

[Angry Ram]

Yeah the delay of game penalties pissed me off more than thte illegal formation. There's always a slight delay and these refs just were too damn flag happy. I don't care what the official record says, Rams won that fuckin game.

 

[Stranger]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7r3ve4GZY[/youtube]

Well, there you go. It takes almost 9 seconds of video play for the clocks to make their first turn, but after that, the clocks advance every 4 seconds of video play.

Now, perhaps the slow motion speed was changed while the video plays, but it can certainly be investigated further by evaluating the tape at live speed with a video program.

So, either the play/game clocks were made to go faster, or the video slow-mo was changed while the video played.

ON EDIT:

1. Forget what I just said, I just watched it on PhxRam's site in live motion and it looks like this instant replay simply started AFTER the video starts, hence, creating the delay. But what's troublesome is that the live feed does NOT include the play clock on screen, and it looks like the snap occurred just as the game clock turned from 2:54 to 2:53. Hence, it is extremely close.

2. Also, I checked when the previous played appears to end, and it at 3:33 or 3:34, so it appears that the play clock did travel a full 40 seconds before the next play.

3. But one thing that I did notice when rewatching the live motion is that the officials on the D side of the ball were still at the line at approximately 3:00 until 2:58, so there is really no way the ball could have been snapped before that. You can see the officials backing up off the line in a rush, and then the ball is snapped just seconds after they get into position.

 

[Ram Quixote]

IMO, the officials were influenced toward the home team. This would explain the late flags.

Ref: that might have been a block in the back but I'd rather not call it. Oh shyte. 62-yard return, gotta throw it.

Ref: well, receiver's not on the line but that's minor. Let 'em play ... oh crap. Better late than never.

Yeah, but that should never be a factor. These are officiating crews that travel around from State to State officiating games. The hell should they care if they get boo'd? That's part of the game, and if they don't have thick enough skin for that, then they can find a new profession. I do think that these particular officials were easily influenced though. Harballs was lobbying for a couple of those flags and he got'm. I do NOT think that there was any foul play involved because the point spread was too great. Late in the 4th and into OT, it wouldn't matter who scored. That spread was never getting covered.

How else do you explain late flags negating big plays for the Rams? It's a strange pattern, especially with the flag in OT being tossed at the SF 40, 40 yards from the LOS. :what:

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think what makes it a little more frustrating is the fact that two years ago the Rams got screwed by the Refs.

2/3 times Bradford has gone into SF the refs have taken the game away from him in OT.

 

[Ram Quixote]

I think what makes it a little more frustrating is the fact that two years ago the Rams got screwed by the Refs.

2/3 times Bradford has gone into SF the refs have taken the game away from him in OT.

Make that 2 out of 2. Bradford didn't play against SF last year.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think what makes it a little more frustrating is the fact that two years ago the Rams got screwed by the Refs.

2/3 times Bradford has gone into SF the refs have taken the game away from him in OT.

Make that 2 out of 2. Bradford didn't play against SF last year.

Good memory, I blocked most of last season out.

 

[diggity]

Most crushing penalty I've had to endure with the RAMS in a long time.
A win was there...and, it disappeared.
GO RAMS!!!!!