Tavon Austin - can we draw a line in the sand?

[shaunpinney]

I'm not sure if this deserves it's own thread, but it's something that crops up in MANY threads, it's in regard to the perpetual question about trading Tavon, because of his salary - can we please try and draw a line in the freaking sand, because it's starting to get a little boring and frustrating because if you guys CAN'T see what Tavon brings to the table then you're being extremely blinkered. In my mind, at the moment, he's contributing far more than AD99 or Ogletree is. His presence on the field opens up space for Gurley and the WRs, without some of his fake sweeps etc, we wouldn't have had certain 1st downs or TDs - can't you all see how McVay is using Tavon, he's a decoy, he's a target and a threat and if defences sleep on him, he may just take it to the house!

If you don't want to believe me, have a read of what TGII has to say on the matter:

"That definitely helped me a lot," Gurley said. "Without Tavon, that’s the extra defender being there, or extra two defenders being there."

The facts
Gurley (with TA on the playing field) 8.1 yards per carry
Gurley (without TA on the playing field) 3.3 yards per carry

I don't want to see Gurley drop his YPC, it's one of the reasons we're winning - and TA is integral to keeping that YPC high.

"It might not show up on the stat sheet, but he's contributing in a lot of ways that goes unnoticed," Rams coach Sean McVay said. "It certainly doesn't in our building."

So please guys, we're winning at the moment, because of the huge TEAM effort the guys are doing, lets celebrate and not tear into a guy that's just doing his job for his coach and his team mates.

 

[jjab360]

I hear you... but you lost me at he's contributing more than AD tbh.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I hear you... but you lost me at he's contributing more than AD tbh.

i conveniently ignored that statement when i gave him a thread winner.

.

 

[The Rammer]

I hear you... but you lost me at he's contributing more than AD tbh.

I think what he meant was AD does not seem like the normal AD for obvious reasons. A not full fledged AD is still a beast and a half but you can tell he’s not his normal self with missing that time.

 

[Faceplant]

If you watched any of the (4-0) Chefs / Foreskins game last night, you would see that they incorporate Tyreek Hill in almost the exact same way we use Austin. Is it a coincidence that Kareem Hunt is the other top tailback in the league? My guess is we will see a lot more of these types of players used the same way soon in this copy cat league....

 

[shaunpinney]

I think what he meant was AD does not seem like the normal AD for obvious reasons. A not full fledged AD is still a beast and a half but you can tell he’s not his normal self with missing that time.

@jjab360 & @kurtfaulk - @The Rammer hit the nail on the head - AD is playing well, but he's no way near the AD of last year, and hasn't stood out to me to be a player that deserves to be the highest paid D player - I'm sure in a couple of weeks he'll be back to his beastly best, I just think that the holdout has hurt his performance.

 

[jjab360]

@jjab360 & @kurtfaulk - @The Rammer hit the nail on the head - AD is playing well, but he's no way near the AD of last year, and hasn't stood out to me to be a player that deserves to be the highest paid D player - I'm sure in a couple of weeks he'll be back to his beastly best, I just think that the holdout has hurt his performance.

Disagree. Look closer than the stats. He penetrated the backfield and disrupted Dallas' offense play after play after play last week. I couldn't believe my eyes when they had him 1 on 1 with the LG, it was a bloodbath what he did to that man.

And this play where he put Zack Martin on his ass? The guy who's supposed to be the best G in the league? Whew boy...

 

[Farr Be It]

Just put away my Whales-English dictionary @shaunpinney and, Yes, many here on ROD have 'blinkered' the crap out of this Tavon transition.

You put in a more eloquent way what I tried to say in my Give Tavon some love post. But some blindly jump straight to salary and cap space, etc.

Let's just enjoy the part Tavon plays in this offense, and keep it positive. The coaches see the value. The players see the value. I think we internet geniuses can rise up and see it too.

 

[Soul Surfer]

AD does not seem like the normal AD for obvious reasons.

Say what?
Donald "opens up" just as much for the defense as Tavon does for the offense.

The pressure he applies requires special attention which opens up other players to do other things.
Donald have nine quarterback pressures against Dallas.
The only game where Donald look like a normal player and not one of the best players in the league was his first game back.
It would be much easier to replace Tavon and what he does then it would to replace Donald.

I'm not that down on Tavon but to say he does more than Donald is ridiculous.

I'll put it this way, one of these players becomes one of the richest players in NFL history next year and one of them has their contract renegotiated or gets cut or traded.

Tavon is doing a great job but he's still overpaid.

 

[Soul Surfer]

[QUOTE="shaunpinney, post: 959826, he's no way near the AD of last year, [/QUOTE]

Did you guys even watch the Dallas game?
Donald was a beast.
Dallas has one of the top three or four lines in the league and he was disrupting the heck out of it.
Prescott got his ass whooped because of the collapsing of line.
Donald won that game as much as anybody.

 

[Todd59]

I'll admit Tavon is electric is space, but if his main job is this offense is "the speedy guy who can take (or fake) jets sweeps sometimes" then he can be replaced by any number of kids in the 5th round of any draft. He was drafted to be a game-changing WR in the NFL, and he just hasn't been able to consistently do that.

 

[LesBaker]

Disagree. Look closer than the stats. He penetrated the backfield and disrupted Dallas' offense play after play after play last week. I couldn't believe my eyes when they had him 1 on 1 with the LG, it was a bloodbath what he did to that man.

And this play where he put Zack Martin on his ass? The guy who's supposed to be the best G in the league? Whew boy...

He got a lot of help from AO on the push, you can see him come in behind AD either biting on the playfake, or it was designed like that, to have AD create a gap for AO to come through. IMO it was designed because otherwise he probably would have followed behind Elliot to get a good view of him catching a screen pass.

Tavon is doing a great job but he's still overpaid.

What are TD's worth, what is their value? What is Gurley being this productive worth?

His YPA are more than double when Austin is on versus off the field.

The TD Gurley scored was in large part because Austin froze THREE defenders on the fake as Gurley sped by them into open space.

His value is not his own production and that's that and when people point to only that I shake my head. For instance with the 99-01 Rams when Faulk lined up at the LOS it froze defenders, and when he went in motion it caused havoc because whatever the defense had called it surely didn't account for Faulk lining up as a WR then going in motion.

I don't worry about the money when he is helping. He's needed this kind of a play designer to really fully use him for the offense. We saw this a couple of years ago. Gurley won ROTY and Austin helped a lot remember.

I'll admit Tavon is electric is space, but if his main job is this offense is "the speedy guy who can take (or fake) jets sweeps sometimes" then he can be replaced by any number of kids in the 5th round of any draft. He was drafted to be a game-changing WR in the NFL, and he just hasn't been able to consistently do that.

You couldn't replace him with a 5th round talent in any draft I've ever seen. He was drafted to be exactly what he is as a pro, and this is what he was in college. I think we will see an expanded role in the weeks ahead when he has a chance to get more in tune. McVay knows what to do with guys like Austin.

 

[Boston Ram]

Is this thread really needed?!

We are 3-1, Tavon is getting paid whether we like it or not. I am not a Tavon fan, but lets see what happens this year. Lets see if Tavon can create a role in this offense. McVay has shown he can draw up plays to get many people involved. Tavon has to be next IMO for McVay.

Lets see how this season plays out with Austin. Lets worry about the salary vs production when the season is over. Lets enjoy the progress we have seen.

 

[Rmfnlt]

His presence on the field opens up space for Gurley and the WRs, without some of his fake sweeps etc, we wouldn't have had certain 1st downs or TDs

So, even if Austin doesn't have the ball, he is contributing... novel thought

Look closer than the stats. He penetrated the backfield and disrupted Dallas' offense play after play after play last week.

Donald "opens up" just as much for the defense as Tavon does for the offense.

So, even if Donald doesn't get the sack or tackle, he's contributing? Novel thought

Is this thread really needed?

We are 3-1, Tavon is getting paid whether we like it or not. I am not a Tavon fan, but lets see what happens this year. Lets see if Tavon can create a role in this offense. McVay has shown he can draw up plays to get many people involved. Tavon has to be next IMO for McVay.

Lets see how this season plays out with Austin. Lets worry about the salary vs production when the season is over. Lets enjoy the progress we have seen.

Great post!

I'm not an Austin fan either... in fact, I'm not a fan of any one particular player because? It's a team sport and my team is the Rams!

I think it's obvious that any player on the team can contrinute and make a play work, even if they are not the central figure in that play.

Austin is overpaid for what he is contributing (either directly, or indirectly). That's not his fault... what was he gonna do... refuse the money?

But, IMO, he needs to contribute more to be commensurate with that salary... you are right Boston... let's see what the rest of the season has in store for Austin before making any real assessments...

In the mean time... couldn't agree more: "Is this thread really needed?" NO.

 

[Soul Surfer]

What are TD's worth, what is their value? What is Gurley being this productive worth?

My point is Tavon Austin isn't the only player in the NFL that could take on that role.

If Tavon Austin wasn't here to play that role, they would have another player in that position at probably half the cost of Tavon.
We need to start scraping money together on players that ARE irreplaceable - like Donald.

 

[majrleaged]

My point is Tavon Austin isn't the only player in the NFL that could take on that role.

If Tavon Austin wasn't here to play that role, they would have another player in that position at probably half the cost of Tavon.
We need to start scraping money together on players that ARE irreplaceable - like Donald.

Have you ever heard kicking a dead horse? Everyone knows he is over paid. That will not change this year. Rams are locked in. So guys, can we stop kicking this horse, it's dead.

 

[Dxmissile]

I'll admit Tavon is electric is space, but if his main job is this offense is "the speedy guy who can take (or fake) jets sweeps sometimes" then he can be replaced by any number of kids in the 5th round of any draft. He was drafted to be a game-changing WR in the NFL, and he just hasn't been able to consistently do that.

Not true those rookies don’t have tavons touchdown performance record, those rookies are going to have to earn the type of respect that defenses have for Austin. Patterson is very dangerous but only now has he shown to be a factor on offense instead of kick returns and he still doesn’t have Austin production. It’s easy to think you can plug and play a guy into that Tavons role I’m just glad the coaches know different

 

[LesBaker]

My point is Tavon Austin isn't the only player in the NFL that could take on that role.

If Tavon Austin wasn't here to play that role, they would have another player in that position at probably half the cost of Tavon.
We need to start scraping money together on players that ARE irreplaceable - like Donald.

I think there are only a handful of guys who can do what he does in space and on sweeps and other plays. He's dangerous because he g3ets first downs and is a threat to go all the way when he touches the ball.

How many of those guys are there? I don't know. I don't know what the value is, or what fair market value is but I know he is very much helping make Gurley's year which is a big part of the reason the Rams are 3-1. Gurley even says so himself.

If he is overpaid it's not such a big deal that Donald can't be signed. And IMO Donald wants to test the market he knows he's going to break the bank somewhere.

Next year there is plenty of cap space to get players signed so we can pick this up at that time. I expect the Rams to try and get Donald to sign, I expect he won't and I see them using one tag but not the second. Wanting that out clause means he wants to be a FA and cash in.

 

[BonifayRam]

I have been seriously negative on TA....I have eased off now.

I am glad @ this time we have both AD & TA both are helping us win games! I am fine with the way McVay is working TA into his offense. Truth is TA is not needed in a wide receiver role. TA only has 2 catches for 5 yds but 14 carries for 81 yds @ a near 6 yds an attempt. We saw when Gurley was in need of a rest TA & Malcolm Brown worked together in the offense same as Gurley/TA did. Looks like a triple headed RB monster to me.

TA's cap hit next season comes down from 15 mil to 8 million & if the Gurley/TA work production keeps growing then TA might stand a slight chance of sticking for one more season. Not sure anyone has said this but Gurley is being used to the max @ the moment.....TA has a vast room to grow here into a big threat as this season wears on. I want to see both Gurley & TA with the pedal to the medal in this offense. I want to enjoy this ride.

Bottom line here TA has a great opportunity to expand his role in this offense way beyond what has been imagined this season. I can see it happening with McVay under the controls. The only thing keeping TA from exploding is TA himself...... & his limitations of fully understanding what McVay wants.

Gurley is a complete 3 down back now most likely the one of the best in the NFL at the moment but he will wear down some as the season moves on so getting Brown, TA & Austin Davis involved makes Gurley that much better when the season draws to an end. I want to see this blending & mixing in the running offense along with the growing of the passing offense with our outstanding wide outs.

 

[lockdnram21]

I'll admit Tavon is electric is space, but if his main job is this offense is "the speedy guy who can take (or fake) jets sweeps sometimes" then he can be replaced by any number of kids in the 5th round of any draft. He was drafted to be a game-changing WR in the NFL, and he just hasn't been able to consistently do that.

Blame fish because I don't think he was ever going to be a traditional wr