- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
- Messages
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- Name
- Peter
Most are quite reasonable on these Steelers forums but for the rest: it's NFL football, people. Injuries happen to every team, even at times to the Rams. No one on this team injures someone on purpose.
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http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/t...x-amount-of-dollars-from-greg-williams.12415/
Mark Barron wins x amount of dollars from Greg Williams
Now I'm not saying there is fire but there is smoke(hand clapping) so I just have to ask the question is there a bounty to be paid?
In an attempt to make sure everyone gets it
This is a Joke!!!!!!!!! (Giant Smiley Emoticon)
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There better be a FINE (or suspension) to be paid.
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The clapping was for the sack, not an injury. Players don't applaud injuries. I doubt they realized right away that he was injured. Injuries happen. Baron isn't a dirty player. Remember, we caused the same injury to Palmer. **** happens sometimes, it was nothing more than an accident
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Did it ever cross your mind that maybe he was clapping because he just sacked the qb?
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I didn't like how the Rams players were claiming it was a turnover repeatedly to the refs, while Ben was very clearly lying on the floor in agony. But maybe they weren't looking.
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the dirty player stuff doesn't mean squat. A lot of the guys in NO were stand up guys not looking to hurt anyone but did get caught up in the seemingly fun game with in the game. Get a big hit get some pocket change. I don't think Barron was looking to hurt Ben either but it is a way to laugh about something horrible.
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I agree totally. I don't think it was malicious at all.
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Oh, I don't think he intended to hurt Ben.
But he did something illegal. He knew it was illegal. And Ben got hurt as a result.
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I'm gonna have to watch it again. It looked to me like he tripped and slid in to his knee with this shoulder and wrapped him up. I then just saw Ben laying on the ground holding his leg and didn't see all the ra ra stuff after the play.
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Suspensions aren't handed out for isolated plays such as this one. If they were, Harrison would have been suspended numerous times for hitting guys to the head and causing injuries (two Browns players come to mind). What happened today was just a freak play. Hopefully Ben will miss a few weeks and be back to 100%, but there will be no suspension for this play and we both know that
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I thought the hit looked like the one KVO put on Palmer too. I'll
betcha no one on the MB thought that was intentional and it wasn't. I think that was before it was a penalty and I agree that a penalty should have been called on the hit today, even if it wasn't intentional.
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Of course not. There should be, but there won't. Might not even be a fine. I mean, it's not like it was Pretty Boy Brady or anything...
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The hit was a foul but didn't seem malicious. Ben has always been kind of a matador hanging in the pocket the way he does. Very successful but risky.
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Baron didn't fall into Ben nor was he pushed - he was on the ground and crawled forward a few hand steps and either grabbed BB's knee or BB ran into him - wasn't clear at that point - but the Kimo rule doesn't have to have intent does it? Only contact with a QB below or at the knee.
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I heard them trying to explain the rule on this and it sounded like it was written by some backroom, ambulance chasing, lawyer. It has something to do with the "passing posture" for them to call it. It's ridiculous.
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It just seems like they leave enough wiggle room for the refs to have "discretion" and all that. Someone should go and see if they always make sure Brady and Manning are in "passing posture" every time they get hit low.
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I have never heard of a guy purposely planning it all out that he was going to fall to his knees 20 feet from the QB and then proceed to bear crawl the rest of the way there in order to take out a guy's leg. Your percentage of success would not be too high in most circumstances.
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http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/threads/mark-barron-will-be-fined.12418/
Mark Barron WILL be fined
He will be fined and should have been penalized........ Ben was in the pocket in a passing posture......... Rule says he cannot make contact Period below the knee!!!
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I agree with you, but I'd be shocked if anything actually came of it.
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Should have been a penalty - if it was against Brady , they call it.
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Against Brady he's probably ejected.
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Tomlin said he "didn't have a problem" with the hit. I don't really understand what he means by that. Like did he think it was "legal" but not malicious or what? Did you hear him say that? I just heard them saying he said it on cooler talk.
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Actually they said this week that the league sent out a memo telling everyone to shut up about criticizing the refs and other teams. I still think Tomlin would have said what he thought about it regardless though.
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I think in the terms of a football play it seemed like it wasn't anything big. Barron was trying to make a play and the unfortunate side effect of the hit was Ben possibly having a knee injury. I don't tomlin thought they were trying to injure Ben
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but even as I watch it over, I just see a guy trying to get to Ben and make a play (sack) while on the ground and not giving up on the play. I could be wrong and you could be right.
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And I get that he was trying to make a play.
Except you're NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. You can't drive your shoulder or helmet into a QBs legs at or below the knee. Period. And every defender knows that.
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Mike Pereira
✔@MikePereira
I think the hit that injured #steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger was a foul. Here's why: Via @KFC
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Against the rules and a penalty, yes. Dirty? That depends if he did it on purpose. I don't think so. He started stumbling so early, that would be one hell of a plan and one hell of an acting job.
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The fine is what it is, I'd be happier seeing the Refs getting something more than a bad report card that potentially disqualifies them from post season work myself. I'd also like to see a live war room in NY where they have league officials and refs ready to make calls to every game if they feel something isn't being caught and addressed like this noncall.
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For those saying a penalty or fine makes no difference, I don't think fans are seeking consolation. We're seeking affirmation that the rules in this league are applied equally.
This is the third time that Ben has taken an illegal hit, resulting in injury, that never drew a flag.
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Do you guys know who Barron's DC is? Did you all know he was also the guy took out Carson palmers knee last year in a similar move and it ended his season .... Just saying
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In fairness, Barron barely touched Palmer. And that was after Palmer was already going down. He didn't hit Palmer's leg at all. Palmer just planted awkwardly, and his knee went out.
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Palmer basically killed his knee all by himself. IIRC, Barron basically grabbed his shoulder and Palmer went down clutching his knee.
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I bet the tune would change if this happened in a game with New England or Baltimore. Illegal hit resulting in an injury.....that the rules were meant to prevent.....he should be fined. Just because we are indifferent with St. Louis doesn't mean we should just accept it and let the NFL sweep it under the rug.
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Agreed.
The double standards are very apparent and not every QB is afforded the same protection. Or maybe Ben isn't just old enough yet, I don't know, I'd have to run that by Ed Hochuli first.
I'm 100% certain that if Marsha Brady took that hit there would have been a flag thrown, and likely a fine for Barron.
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http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4534
hows that not illegal hit.??
dude fucking crawled 3 yards to deliver a cutthroat bullshit hit to ben.. seriously..thought the brady rule covered this shit.. yet no flag..nothing...
dude took him out dirty as fuck!
exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it had to be flagged!! why not!!! I watched replay 6 times.. he targeted bens knee!!! whers the brady rule???
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I thought by letter of the rule, it's a penalty.
And I hate it. To me that's just a football play. Expecting guys to control their body while flying thru the air is just dumb.
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it was a football play. Shit happens. As a defender your scraping and clawing to get to the QB anyway you can. You sound like a Ravens fan.
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Not intentional and therefore not illegal. We can't as Steeler fans, have it both ways; complaining about how pussified the league has become and then begging for a flag for a legit hit.
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There was a rule put in place in the past 5 years that said you can't come in low like that. We've been flagged for that exact play.
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Some random Rams fan at the bar today made it a point to tell me he got pushed into Ben. He said, "hey, I don't want you thinking we have a dirty team or anything. I was like, huh?
He just stared at the TV when they showed the replay, I looked over at him and said, you were saying?
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I suppose it could have been flagged, but saying it was dirty as fuck, or a cheap shot makes me ill.
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Sorry that was a penalty. It really doesn't matter. At that point nothing matters- our franchise player is on the ground. But it should have been 15 yards.
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I don't think it was intentional, but it should have been a penalty. It is the Brady rule, simple as that. Whether the guy meant to do it or not, stumbled, whatever.
That said, the rule is stupid to begin with, and only exists because the Great Ball Deflator was hit once.
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horse shit. that's a penaltiy most of time... if precious payton or adorable tom got hit that way its a penalty..every fucking time.. this was a travesty!
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dude crawled and crawled more to ram bens knee!! and he rammed.. horse shit! protect the qb??? right
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he crawled and crawled to try to get Bens leg, sack him, and prevent his opponent from scoring. Ya know, his fucking job!
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He crawled while unblocked, into Ben's knee.
Not saying he tried to hurt Roethlisberger (possible, but tough to determine) but no doubt whatsoever what he did deserved a flag.
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This is my analysis:
Ben is known for extending plays. Because he extends plays, the referees allow him to extend the play. In their minds, he places himself in that situation; as a result the pass rusher is not at fault. They do not categorize him as a "pocket passer" even though he is as good as any in that role. It is a perception the referees have and it is unfortunate.
Ben has been at been at the receiving end of those non-calls for years. Broken noses, injured knees, etc. I don't think the player was intending to hit him that way, he was just trying to get to him in whatever way possible.
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Was Ben scrambling or in the grasp? Is it illegal to hit a QB in the pocket below the knee? I think the answer is yes since KVO did the exact same thing to Carson Palmer in 2005 playoff game.
Matters not at this point but it should have been a 15 yard penalty.
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I agree and that does annoy me. But a shit call is a shit call and I hate them regardless.
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No way was it an intent to injure....was an intent to tackle; that's all.
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so the defender has a chance to get Ben by the leg....he's supposed to just stop and let him go ahead and complete the pass. I'm sure he was thinking "fuck i gotta take this fuckers knee out" get real. sober up.
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You guys may not believe this and I wish I had posted it last week, but here is a crazy story.
I was in PGH for the 49ers game. Next morning, I returned rental car to Hertz at airport. This guy checks me in - crazy SOB, but interesting guy - we start talking Steelers.
He tells me that an NFL scout who he met at the airport Hertz check in - told him that the Rams were going to try and take Ben out of the game with a low hit - no bullshit. I thought he was fucking crazy so I never thought of it again until today.
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It was a low hit. In the course of the game by a guy likely trying to make a play but low nonetheless. By the reading of the rule. Its a penalty. The fact that its a penalty does not mean Ben is no longer hurt. For those remotely surprised we didn't see a flag ... you don't watch many Steelers games. The end.
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It most certainly was a penalty. We are lucky it did not cost us the game.
Vick came out and was in a 3rd and forever situation and we went conservative and conceded that we weren't getting the first down. We just wanted to punt and get it over with, didn't want to have Vick try and pick up a 3rd and 22? situation and turn the ball over.
But....What should have happened is that we get a penalty for the low hit on Ben and automatic first down, Vick takes his first snap under center at the 50 yard line and maybe we get a touchdown out of that drive, or a field goal at the least.
By not calling that penalty, the refs really could have cost us the game. Being dirty has nothing to do with, saying the player has no control over his stumbling feet has nothing to do with it, saying it would not bring Ben back healthy, has nothing to do with it. It was a penalty and should have been called.
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http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/t...x-amount-of-dollars-from-greg-williams.12415/
Mark Barron wins x amount of dollars from Greg Williams
Now I'm not saying there is fire but there is smoke(hand clapping) so I just have to ask the question is there a bounty to be paid?
In an attempt to make sure everyone gets it
This is a Joke!!!!!!!!! (Giant Smiley Emoticon)
----------
There better be a FINE (or suspension) to be paid.
--------
The clapping was for the sack, not an injury. Players don't applaud injuries. I doubt they realized right away that he was injured. Injuries happen. Baron isn't a dirty player. Remember, we caused the same injury to Palmer. **** happens sometimes, it was nothing more than an accident
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Did it ever cross your mind that maybe he was clapping because he just sacked the qb?
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I didn't like how the Rams players were claiming it was a turnover repeatedly to the refs, while Ben was very clearly lying on the floor in agony. But maybe they weren't looking.
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the dirty player stuff doesn't mean squat. A lot of the guys in NO were stand up guys not looking to hurt anyone but did get caught up in the seemingly fun game with in the game. Get a big hit get some pocket change. I don't think Barron was looking to hurt Ben either but it is a way to laugh about something horrible.
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I agree totally. I don't think it was malicious at all.
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Oh, I don't think he intended to hurt Ben.
But he did something illegal. He knew it was illegal. And Ben got hurt as a result.
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I'm gonna have to watch it again. It looked to me like he tripped and slid in to his knee with this shoulder and wrapped him up. I then just saw Ben laying on the ground holding his leg and didn't see all the ra ra stuff after the play.
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Suspensions aren't handed out for isolated plays such as this one. If they were, Harrison would have been suspended numerous times for hitting guys to the head and causing injuries (two Browns players come to mind). What happened today was just a freak play. Hopefully Ben will miss a few weeks and be back to 100%, but there will be no suspension for this play and we both know that
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I thought the hit looked like the one KVO put on Palmer too. I'll
betcha no one on the MB thought that was intentional and it wasn't. I think that was before it was a penalty and I agree that a penalty should have been called on the hit today, even if it wasn't intentional.
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Of course not. There should be, but there won't. Might not even be a fine. I mean, it's not like it was Pretty Boy Brady or anything...
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The hit was a foul but didn't seem malicious. Ben has always been kind of a matador hanging in the pocket the way he does. Very successful but risky.
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Baron didn't fall into Ben nor was he pushed - he was on the ground and crawled forward a few hand steps and either grabbed BB's knee or BB ran into him - wasn't clear at that point - but the Kimo rule doesn't have to have intent does it? Only contact with a QB below or at the knee.
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I heard them trying to explain the rule on this and it sounded like it was written by some backroom, ambulance chasing, lawyer. It has something to do with the "passing posture" for them to call it. It's ridiculous.
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It just seems like they leave enough wiggle room for the refs to have "discretion" and all that. Someone should go and see if they always make sure Brady and Manning are in "passing posture" every time they get hit low.
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I have never heard of a guy purposely planning it all out that he was going to fall to his knees 20 feet from the QB and then proceed to bear crawl the rest of the way there in order to take out a guy's leg. Your percentage of success would not be too high in most circumstances.
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http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/threads/mark-barron-will-be-fined.12418/
Mark Barron WILL be fined
He will be fined and should have been penalized........ Ben was in the pocket in a passing posture......... Rule says he cannot make contact Period below the knee!!!
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I agree with you, but I'd be shocked if anything actually came of it.
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Should have been a penalty - if it was against Brady , they call it.
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Against Brady he's probably ejected.
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Tomlin said he "didn't have a problem" with the hit. I don't really understand what he means by that. Like did he think it was "legal" but not malicious or what? Did you hear him say that? I just heard them saying he said it on cooler talk.
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Actually they said this week that the league sent out a memo telling everyone to shut up about criticizing the refs and other teams. I still think Tomlin would have said what he thought about it regardless though.
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I think in the terms of a football play it seemed like it wasn't anything big. Barron was trying to make a play and the unfortunate side effect of the hit was Ben possibly having a knee injury. I don't tomlin thought they were trying to injure Ben
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but even as I watch it over, I just see a guy trying to get to Ben and make a play (sack) while on the ground and not giving up on the play. I could be wrong and you could be right.
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And I get that he was trying to make a play.
Except you're NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. You can't drive your shoulder or helmet into a QBs legs at or below the knee. Period. And every defender knows that.
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Mike Pereira
✔@MikePereira
I think the hit that injured #steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger was a foul. Here's why: Via @KFC
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Against the rules and a penalty, yes. Dirty? That depends if he did it on purpose. I don't think so. He started stumbling so early, that would be one hell of a plan and one hell of an acting job.
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The fine is what it is, I'd be happier seeing the Refs getting something more than a bad report card that potentially disqualifies them from post season work myself. I'd also like to see a live war room in NY where they have league officials and refs ready to make calls to every game if they feel something isn't being caught and addressed like this noncall.
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For those saying a penalty or fine makes no difference, I don't think fans are seeking consolation. We're seeking affirmation that the rules in this league are applied equally.
This is the third time that Ben has taken an illegal hit, resulting in injury, that never drew a flag.
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Do you guys know who Barron's DC is? Did you all know he was also the guy took out Carson palmers knee last year in a similar move and it ended his season .... Just saying
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In fairness, Barron barely touched Palmer. And that was after Palmer was already going down. He didn't hit Palmer's leg at all. Palmer just planted awkwardly, and his knee went out.
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Palmer basically killed his knee all by himself. IIRC, Barron basically grabbed his shoulder and Palmer went down clutching his knee.
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I bet the tune would change if this happened in a game with New England or Baltimore. Illegal hit resulting in an injury.....that the rules were meant to prevent.....he should be fined. Just because we are indifferent with St. Louis doesn't mean we should just accept it and let the NFL sweep it under the rug.
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Agreed.
The double standards are very apparent and not every QB is afforded the same protection. Or maybe Ben isn't just old enough yet, I don't know, I'd have to run that by Ed Hochuli first.
I'm 100% certain that if Marsha Brady took that hit there would have been a flag thrown, and likely a fine for Barron.
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http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4534
hows that not illegal hit.??
dude fucking crawled 3 yards to deliver a cutthroat bullshit hit to ben.. seriously..thought the brady rule covered this shit.. yet no flag..nothing...
dude took him out dirty as fuck!
exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it had to be flagged!! why not!!! I watched replay 6 times.. he targeted bens knee!!! whers the brady rule???
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I thought by letter of the rule, it's a penalty.
And I hate it. To me that's just a football play. Expecting guys to control their body while flying thru the air is just dumb.
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it was a football play. Shit happens. As a defender your scraping and clawing to get to the QB anyway you can. You sound like a Ravens fan.
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Not intentional and therefore not illegal. We can't as Steeler fans, have it both ways; complaining about how pussified the league has become and then begging for a flag for a legit hit.
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There was a rule put in place in the past 5 years that said you can't come in low like that. We've been flagged for that exact play.
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Some random Rams fan at the bar today made it a point to tell me he got pushed into Ben. He said, "hey, I don't want you thinking we have a dirty team or anything. I was like, huh?
He just stared at the TV when they showed the replay, I looked over at him and said, you were saying?
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I suppose it could have been flagged, but saying it was dirty as fuck, or a cheap shot makes me ill.
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Sorry that was a penalty. It really doesn't matter. At that point nothing matters- our franchise player is on the ground. But it should have been 15 yards.
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I don't think it was intentional, but it should have been a penalty. It is the Brady rule, simple as that. Whether the guy meant to do it or not, stumbled, whatever.
That said, the rule is stupid to begin with, and only exists because the Great Ball Deflator was hit once.
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horse shit. that's a penaltiy most of time... if precious payton or adorable tom got hit that way its a penalty..every fucking time.. this was a travesty!
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dude crawled and crawled more to ram bens knee!! and he rammed.. horse shit! protect the qb??? right
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he crawled and crawled to try to get Bens leg, sack him, and prevent his opponent from scoring. Ya know, his fucking job!
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He crawled while unblocked, into Ben's knee.
Not saying he tried to hurt Roethlisberger (possible, but tough to determine) but no doubt whatsoever what he did deserved a flag.
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This is my analysis:
Ben is known for extending plays. Because he extends plays, the referees allow him to extend the play. In their minds, he places himself in that situation; as a result the pass rusher is not at fault. They do not categorize him as a "pocket passer" even though he is as good as any in that role. It is a perception the referees have and it is unfortunate.
Ben has been at been at the receiving end of those non-calls for years. Broken noses, injured knees, etc. I don't think the player was intending to hit him that way, he was just trying to get to him in whatever way possible.
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Was Ben scrambling or in the grasp? Is it illegal to hit a QB in the pocket below the knee? I think the answer is yes since KVO did the exact same thing to Carson Palmer in 2005 playoff game.
Matters not at this point but it should have been a 15 yard penalty.
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I agree and that does annoy me. But a shit call is a shit call and I hate them regardless.
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No way was it an intent to injure....was an intent to tackle; that's all.
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You guys may not believe this and I wish I had posted it last week, but here is a crazy story.
I was in PGH for the 49ers game. Next morning, I returned rental car to Hertz at airport. This guy checks me in - crazy SOB, but interesting guy - we start talking Steelers.
He tells me that an NFL scout who he met at the airport Hertz check in - told him that the Rams were going to try and take Ben out of the game with a low hit - no bullshit. I thought he was fucking crazy so I never thought of it again until today.
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It was a low hit. In the course of the game by a guy likely trying to make a play but low nonetheless. By the reading of the rule. Its a penalty. The fact that its a penalty does not mean Ben is no longer hurt. For those remotely surprised we didn't see a flag ... you don't watch many Steelers games. The end.
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It most certainly was a penalty. We are lucky it did not cost us the game.
Vick came out and was in a 3rd and forever situation and we went conservative and conceded that we weren't getting the first down. We just wanted to punt and get it over with, didn't want to have Vick try and pick up a 3rd and 22? situation and turn the ball over.
But....What should have happened is that we get a penalty for the low hit on Ben and automatic first down, Vick takes his first snap under center at the 50 yard line and maybe we get a touchdown out of that drive, or a field goal at the least.
By not calling that penalty, the refs really could have cost us the game. Being dirty has nothing to do with, saying the player has no control over his stumbling feet has nothing to do with it, saying it would not bring Ben back healthy, has nothing to do with it. It was a penalty and should have been called.
