Sando & Bernie

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Mike Sando
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/ ... sz-show-20

Bernie Miklasz's take on Gregg Williams and the New Orleans Saints' bounty scandal caught my attention for several reasons.

One, there's a link to a fabulous site chronicling known fines against NFL players and teams. Two, Miklasz makes a welcome distinction between legal and illegal hits, suggesting the term "bounty" is too often misapplied.

We discussed these and related issues during our most recent conversation Tuesday on 101ESPN St. Louis.

If you've grown weary of the bounty topic, be warned. Otherwise, the audio is here.

[mp3]http://icestream.dev-cms.com:8000/stl/2012/03/03062012123121.mp3[/mp3]

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[Stranger]

One, there's a link to a fabulous site chronicling known fines against NFL players and teams..

Wow, Vikings, Steelers & Titans were over the top.

Seems that Vikes & Steelers should at least be part of this conversation that has so far almost exclusively been focused on Gregg Williams. But as far as Steelers, I guess when your owner is also an Ambassador selected by the US President, your team is offlimits for public scrutiny.

 

[Stranger]

OMG, check out 2009 NFL fines...

http://www.justfines.com/listTeamFines. ... 9&sum=team

Saints had 1 for $10K
Titans had 9 for $327,500.

Where was Williams in 2009? Wasn't he with the Saints?

 

[-X-]

OMG, check out 2009 NFL fines...

http://www.justfines.com/listTeamFines. ... 9&sum=team

Saints had 1 for $10K
Titans had 9 for $327,500.

Where was Williams in 2009? Wasn't he with the Saints?

Yep. He was hired in January of 2009.

 

[Stranger]

OMG, check out 2009 NFL fines...

http://www.justfines.com/listTeamFines. ... 9&sum=team

Saints had 1 for $10K
Titans had 9 for $327,500.

Where was Williams in 2009? Wasn't he with the Saints?

Yep. He was hired in January of 2009.

Then something doesn't add up.

If the Saints & Williams supposedly had these horrendous bounties going on in 2009, then why did they only suffer 1 Fine for $10K???? That was like the lowest in the league that year.

Something really smells bad about the way this media frenzie is going down BEFORE any reports are issued, and while the investigation is on going. I don't like at all how all the attention has been on Gregg Williams. It still seems to me that Williams is being escape-goated, and that there is something else going on.

 

[-X-]

OMG, check out 2009 NFL fines...

http://www.justfines.com/listTeamFines. ... 9&sum=team

Saints had 1 for $10K
Titans had 9 for $327,500.

Where was Williams in 2009? Wasn't he with the Saints?

Yep. He was hired in January of 2009.

Then something doesn't add up.

If the Saints & Williams supposedly had these horrendous bounties going on in 2009, then why did they only suffer 1 Fine for $10K???? That was like the lowest in the league that year.

Something really smells bad about the way this media frenzie is going down BEFORE any reports are issued, and while the investigation is on going. I don't like at all how all the attention has been on Gregg Williams. It still seems to me that Williams is being escape-goated, and that there is something else going on.

Well, presumably, because the 'bounty' was for knocking someone's head off -- but LEGALLY. Nothing I've read has the Saints getting rewarded for *illegal* hits. The terminology in the specifics of these reports is what's getting people off-track. Sure, offering up $1K for getting someone carted off sounds malicious in nature, but there's nothing in that report that said, for example, "$1K for taking out someone's knees or a helmet-to-helmet that leads to a cart-off."

Williams is being targeted along with the Saints. It's not just him. It's more the Organization from top to bottom. And they're doing that (again, presumably) because the Saints were told to stop doing that, and they didn't. Someone inside must have been leaking stuff to the league office, or they wouldn't have so much evidence. And, it didn't help that they had someone on the inside sending emails internally (like a dumbass) outlining the whole program.

 

[libertadrocks]

I have been a vocal proponent of firing Williams. However if the "bounties" were limited to what Bernie suggested they were then I would reverse my opinion. I dont have any problem with a few players throwing some cash together in a pool and rewarding each other for game changing plays.

Im skeptical thats what it was limited to tho.

 

[Stranger]

So, if the players had NOT put money into a kitty, but say, had said that whoever hits the QB the hardest (legally) gets taken out to dinner, then does this entire episode go away? If that's the case then, the entire issue boils down to the reward given, is that not right?

 

[Anonymous]

So, if the players had NOT put money into a kitty, but say, had said that whoever hits the QB the hardest (legally) gets taken out to dinner, then does this entire episode go away? If that's the case then, the entire issue boils down to the reward given, is that not right?

Goodell said this:

"The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players," Commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday in a statement."

Plus, we can add, it was administered by a coach and the coach himself put money in the pool.

That's a lot of factors combined.

Speeding. Speeding drunk. Ran a stop light.

 

[Stranger]

This still does not make sense. Or, something just does not add up. Just look at NFL fines in 2009 & 2010. Where are the Saints in these lists???? If this was such a BIG issue, you'd think, just think, that the Saints might be at least at the top half of the NFL Fines lists for these two years. OR, Williams bounty program was totally unsucessful.

 

[Memento]

This still does not make sense. Or, something just does not add up. Just look at NFL fines in 2009 & 2010. Where are the Saints in these lists???? If this was such a BIG issue, you'd think, just think, that the Saints might be at least at the top half of the NFL Fines lists for these two years. OR, Williams bounty program was totally unsucessful.

I think that there's an error in the 2010 sheet. It's missing the Rams entirely.

 

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Maybe they didn't make the cut. Each year has two teams missing. Come to think of it, I can't recall any fines being doled out for the Rams in 2010 either.

 

[max]

Speeding. Speeding drunk. Ran a stop light.

But not actually hitting anybody.

Contrast that with another guy who doesn't speed, isn't drunk, and didn't run a stop light, but actually hits a person and kills them.

 

[Stranger]

This still does not make sense. Or, something just does not add up. Just look at NFL fines in 2009 & 2010. Where are the Saints in these lists???? If this was such a BIG issue, you'd think, just think, that the Saints might be at least at the top half of the NFL Fines lists for these two years. OR, Williams bounty program was totally unsucessful.

I think that there's an error in the 2010 sheet. It's missing the Rams entirely.

Got the data from justfines.com, and they only listed 29 teams for 2010.
http://www.justfines.com/listTeamFines. ... 10&sum=pos

On Edit: Also, Balzer basically confirms the point in his article that I posted this morning.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8097

 

[Faceplant]

there's a link to a fabulous site