Saints bounty evidence released to players

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[nfl]09000d5d829df39e[/nfl]
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... to-players

 

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By BARRY WILNER | The Associated Press – 7 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP) Saints player Jonathan Vilma has left an NFL hearing to appeal his season-long suspension for participating in the Saints' bounty program, with the linebacker saying the process is not fair.

Vilma's attorney, Peter Ginsberg, says the NFL requested an adjournment to Monday afternoon, but he and Vilma refused. Ginsberg says Commissioner Roger Goodell failed to present the evidence on which he based his decision to impose the player's suspension.

Vilma says he doesn't know how he can get a fair hearing when Goodell is ''judge, jury and executioner.''

Three other players are scheduled to have their appeals heard later Monday - Will Smith, Anthony Hargrove and Scott Fujita.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/goodell-he ... --nfl.html

 

[Stranger]

Vilma says he doesn't know how he can get a fair hearing when Goodell is ''judge, jury and executioner.''

I've said this before here, I just can't understand why the NFLPA would have agreed to giving Goodell that much power in the latest CBA. They certainly didn't need to do this in order to get the deal done.

Also, it creates a system ripe for abuse, which I think what has happened in this matter. Player's only possible fair option now are the courts, which we might just see more often under this new CBA. If players like Vilma continue to go the distance and take their issues to trial, we just might get a real glimse into how the NFL is run.

 

[Stranger]

NFL Video interview of Vilma & lawyer outside hearing room immediately after shortened hearing.

[nfl]09000d5d829ed191[/nfl]

Lawyer called hearing "a sham" and "an abuse of process".

 

[Thordaddy]

Vilma says he doesn't know how he can get a fair hearing when Goodell is ''judge, jury and executioner.''

I've said this before here, I just can't understand why the NFLPA would have agreed to giving Goodell that much power in the latest CBA. They certainly didn't need to do this in order to get the deal done.

Also, it creates a system ripe for abuse, which I think what has happened in this matter. Player's only possible fair option now are the courts, which we might just see more often under this new CBA. If players like Vilma continue to go the distance and take their issues to trial, we just might get a real glimse into how the NFL is run.

I think the witnesses were tortured :grr:

 

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NFLPA Statement. Here's a question though. If Vilma (and the rest of the Saints) are exonerated, does that mean by extension, Gregg Williams is not guilty as well? I mean, if there's no evidence, then what could Williams have done wrong? Something to chew on.

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For Immediate Release
June 18, 2012
https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Pre ... stigation/

NFLPA’S OUTSIDE COUNSEL’S FINDINGS ON 'BOUNTY INVESTIGATION'

The Commissioner in this proceeding—and in any disciplinary proceeding—has the obligation to act impartially in the disciplining of players. As the representative of the game of football, this duty of the Commissioner is as compelling as his obligation to protect the game of football. His interest should not be in rubber-stamping any pronouncement of punishment, but rather ensuring that justice is done.

As a servant of the game, the Commissioner’s threefold aim should be to protect the men who play the game, administer discipline in a fair and even manner and protect the image of the game. While he may strike hard blows, he is not at liberty to strike foul ones. The unfair discipline of players for their alleged involvement in a pay-to-injure/bounty program violated the Commissioner’s duty to refrain from resorting to improper methods to defend an unsubstantiated pronouncement.

After four months, the following facts have now been established. The Commissioner, NFL personnel and their outside counsel:

Ran a sloppy investigation that inexplicably included a decision to not question any of the coaches about the documentary evidence used as a basis for punishment.

Punished players before they had the ability to confront, challenge or explain a single piece of evidence used against them.

Launched a public campaign in the media to support the discipline and tarnish the reputations of players before any hearing, effectively destroying any claim that the Commissioner could act as an impartial arbitrator.

Withheld any and all evidence from the players for nearly four months despite repeated requests for full information and full transparency.

Falsely characterized witness interviews to draw false conclusions about players’ involvement in a pay-to-injure scheme.

Retained a former U.S. Attorney to whitewash the investigation by employing her to conduct a media conference call affirming an investigation she was not part of.

Employed the same former U.S. Attorney to today’s hearing to read the report of an investigation she did not conduct, but prohibited her from answering any questions from the players.

Refused to make any coaches involved in preparing the supposed documentary evidence available for interviews by the players or at today’s hearing.

Provided only 200 pages out of their claimed 18,000 pages of materials and refused to provide any materials that might be exculpatory.

Without explanation, produced at today’s hearing a declaration from a team advisor who said that no bounty program existed.

Inexplicably relied upon an article and a blog post written after the investigation had concluded and punishment had been issued as ‘evidence’ even though they had supposedly collected thousands of documents proving players participated in a pay-to-injure scheme.

Refused a three-day adjournment and delay of the appeals hearing so that the players could perform a more comprehensive review of the documents.

In this matter, the conduct of the Commissioner and his representatives has undermined the fundamental process contemplated by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Through this abuse, these players have been denied any semblance of due process and fairness.

At a time when some question the safety and integrity of the game, the failure by those charged to act responsibly and fairly have challenged our collective faith and confidence in the league.

-- Richard Smith, NFLPA Outside Counsel

 

[Stranger]

NFLPA Statement. Here's a question though. If Vilma (and the rest of the Saints) are exonerated, does that mean by extension, Gregg Williams is not guilty as well? I mean, if there's no evidence, then what could Williams have done wrong? Something to chew on.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For Immediate Release
June 18, 2012
https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Pre ... stigation/

NFLPA’S OUTSIDE COUNSEL’S FINDINGS ON 'BOUNTY INVESTIGATION'

The Commissioner in this proceeding—and in any disciplinary proceeding—has the obligation to act impartially in the disciplining of players. As the representative of the game of football, this duty of the Commissioner is as compelling as his obligation to protect the game of football. His interest should not be in rubber-stamping any pronouncement of punishment, but rather ensuring that justice is done.

As a servant of the game, the Commissioner’s threefold aim should be to protect the men who play the game, administer discipline in a fair and even manner and protect the image of the game. While he may strike hard blows, he is not at liberty to strike foul ones. The unfair discipline of players for their alleged involvement in a pay-to-injure/bounty program violated the Commissioner’s duty to refrain from resorting to improper methods to defend an unsubstantiated pronouncement.

After four months, the following facts have now been established. The Commissioner, NFL personnel and their outside counsel:

Ran a sloppy investigation that inexplicably included a decision to not question any of the coaches about the documentary evidence used as a basis for punishment.

Punished players before they had the ability to confront, challenge or explain a single piece of evidence used against them.

Launched a public campaign in the media to support the discipline and tarnish the reputations of players before any hearing, effectively destroying any claim that the Commissioner could act as an impartial arbitrator.

Withheld any and all evidence from the players for nearly four months despite repeated requests for full information and full transparency.

Falsely characterized witness interviews to draw false conclusions about players’ involvement in a pay-to-injure scheme.

Retained a former U.S. Attorney to whitewash the investigation by employing her to conduct a media conference call affirming an investigation she was not part of.

Employed the same former U.S. Attorney to today’s hearing to read the report of an investigation she did not conduct, but prohibited her from answering any questions from the players.

Refused to make any coaches involved in preparing the supposed documentary evidence available for interviews by the players or at today’s hearing.

Provided only 200 pages out of their claimed 18,000 pages of materials and refused to provide any materials that might be exculpatory.

Without explanation, produced at today’s hearing a declaration from a team advisor who said that no bounty program existed.

Inexplicably relied upon an article and a blog post written after the investigation had concluded and punishment had been issued as ‘evidence’ even though they had supposedly collected thousands of documents proving players participated in a pay-to-injure scheme.

Refused a three-day adjournment and delay of the appeals hearing so that the players could perform a more comprehensive review of the documents.

In this matter, the conduct of the Commissioner and his representatives has undermined the fundamental process contemplated by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Through this abuse, these players have been denied any semblance of due process and fairness.

At a time when some question the safety and integrity of the game, the failure by those charged to act responsibly and fairly have challenged our collective faith and confidence in the league.

-- Richard Smith, NFLPA Outside Counsel

Sorry folks, but the business side of the NFL is a piece of shit. And now, the public might just get some real insights, after losing our opportunity with the Spygate Superbowl tapes. It's about time.

PS. Exculpatory evidence is the evidence favorable to the defendant in a criminal trial, which clears or tends to clear the defendant of guilt

PPS. By the way, what could motivate Goodell AND a former US Attorney to corrupt due process so blatantly and eggregiously? That's the next question to ask.

 

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Sorry folks, but the business side of the NFL is a piece of shit.

Not to invalidate your feelings or anything, but I just don't care. I'm posting this stuff as a service for those who do (care), but in the end, I really don't care what's going on with this case. If Goodell wants to run roughshod over the league and the players, and he goes basically unchecked, I still don't care. Big business is going to be the villain in every walk of life, so it's unrealistic to expect the NFL to be held to a higher standard. For what? Because they're the NFL? Meh. This is a bridge club full of billionaires. They're higher than big business.

Are the Rams playing?

Yeah?

That's all I care about.

I'll stay out of this now. :sly:

 

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PETER KING
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1yCDmQITN


NEW YORK -- As Mary Jo White, the former federal prosecutor who examined the evidence for the National Football League in its pay-for-performance/bounty case against the New Orleans Saints, went through reams of evidence Monday afternoon for 12 reporters in league offices, I had one overriding thought: All of this cannot be invented.

• The testimony from disgraced defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to the league, in which he said he knew the program "was rolling the dice with player safety and someone could have been maimed."

• The charge, from what the league said was a handwritten note from a Saints defensive coach, that the defense pledged $35,000 for a defender to knock Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game -- including a $5,000 pledge to the kitty from current Saints interim coach Joe Vitt.

• The three sources the NFL claims to have who told league investigators linebacker Jonathan Vilma spurred the bounty on Favre by offering $10,000 himself during a night-before-the-game motivational speech by, as one of the sources said, "raising his hands, each of which held stacks of bills, that he had two 'five-stacks,''' to give to the player who knocked Favre from the game.

• The NFL Films-recorded quote from defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, as first reported by SI in March, with Hargrove saying to defensive teammate Bobby McCray, "Give me my money,'' after Vitt told the team that Favre was out of the game with a leg injury. (Favre did return to the game without missing a play, but that wasn't apparent when Hargrove made his declaration to McCray.)

• The PowerPoint slide collected from a sweep of the Saints' computer system, from the night before the Saints' playoff loss at Seattle in January 2011, complete with a picture of TV bounty hunter Duane "Dog'' Chapman, that said, "Now is the time to do our job ... collect bounty $$$! No apologies! Let's go hunting!''

• The unending stream of evidence from Saints computers, which is going to create some very strange bedfellows inside the Saints' football facility ... seeing that the two-year sweep of the all Saints' e-mails and computer-generated PowerPoints was OK'd by owner Tom Benson, who helped seal the case against the four suspended players and three coaches and general manager Mickey Loomis by allowing forensics experts to search for incriminating electronic evidence against his employees.

• The ledger sheet from an October 2009 game that showed safety Roman Harper due $1,000 for a "cart-off'' of Giants running back Brandon Jacobs in the second quarter, forcing Jacobs to leave the field for several plays.

"Overwhelming evidence,'' White called what the league showed reporters in a 75-minute presentation.

Specious evidence, the attorney for Vilma said in the morning, when lawyer Peter Ginsberg and Vilma walked out of the proceedings. "There is no evidence, because there was no bounty system,'' he said.

Vilma, in a statement to reporters outside the league's midtown Manhattan offices on Park Avenue, said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in three months had destroyed the reputation he'd worked for eight years in the NFL to build. And Vilma criticized the process, in which the man who handed down the Saints' suspensions, Goodell, was also the one hearing the appeals. "I don't know how you have a fair process when you're a judge, jury and executioner,'' he said.

Summing up the day: The four players -- Vilma, linebacker Scott Fujita (now with Cleveland), defensive end Will Smith and Hargrove (now with Green Bay) -- due to have their appeals heard at NFL headquarters left in the morning because of a procedural issue. They felt they hadn't had the 72 hours the Collective Bargaining Agreement mandated to examine the evidence in the case, and the NFL offered to adjourn the case till the afternoon, by which time the 72-hour window would be valid. Vilma and Ginsberg chose to leave and not return, protesting the forum. Fujita, Smith and Hargrove returned for the afternoon session, just long enough to hear White's case against them. Then they left, apparently because they considered the probe unfair.

To be fair to the players, there was far, far more evidence of the pay-for-performance claims than the bounty claims. In fact, the Harper claim was the only one the league showed that resulted in a payout to a player for knocking a player out of a game.

However, the NFL has maintained all along that all it needs is evidence that a bounty program was in place and that money was offered to try to take opponents out of the game -- not that players were actually taken out of the game.

(The NFL said what the reporters heard from security chief Jeff Miller, legal counsel Jeff Pash and White was the same as the three players, not including Vilma, heard from the three NFL representatives earlier in the afternoon.)

Pash said the league wouldn't rule on the appeals immediately -- a full year suspension for Vilma, eight games for Hargrove, four for Smith and three for Fujita. He said Goodell will keep the case open for the remainder of the week in the hope that the players will make statements in their defense before he renders his decision.

Fujita was emotional as he spoke on a public plaza outside league offices. "I have yet to see anything that implicates me in some pay-to-injure scheme, not in the last three months, not in the last three days, not today,'' Fujita said, a couple of times pausing to compose himself. "And perhaps that's because there is nothing that can implicate me in some pay-to-injure scheme.''

In fact, there was no evidence presented to reporters that showed Fujita directly contributed money to a pool for distribution to players who hurt someone. Fujita told SI in March that he did contribute to the pay-for-performance system (for plays like interceptions and forced fumbles) but never to a pool for injurious hits. Apparently, when Goodell ruled, he took into account that Fujita was not the ringleader but, in the commissioner's mind, a major contributor to the program.

"Throughout this process,'' Fujita said, "it has become increasingly clear to me that just because someone disagrees with the NFL's interpretation of an incredibly flawed investigation it's assumed that he's lying and to me and that's a shame. I've played 10 years in this league and throughout my career I've done nothing but conduct myself in a positive manner. This has impacted my reputation, this has impacted my ability to provide for my family now and in the future and I have a hard time with that. The NFL has been careless and irresponsible and they have made mistakes. At some point they have to answer questions."

The league answered quite a few from reporters late in the afternoon in a conference room on the sixth floor of NFL headquarters. This was the first time since the story exploded on March 2 that the league opened up the investigation to reporters.

Miller said Benson "gave us his permission'' to examine the Saints' computer system to try to find evidence in the bounty case. White said there was a witness statement saying Vitt instructed Hargrove to lie about the existence of a pay-for-performance/bounty system if he was interviewed by NFL investigators after the game in which Favre was knocked around. Williams confirmed the story of Vitt asking Hargrove to lie. Vitt denied it. And league officials confirmed that players sometimes gave the money they'd earned from the program back, to increase the money in the kitty.

One of these times, the league claimed, Vilma gave the money back. In a 2009 game against Miami, Vilma, the league charged, earned $400 for two "whacks" -- explosive hits on an offensive players -- but had $200 subtracted for an "ME" (mental error). The league said Williams kept the money in a lock box in his office, and he'd distribute it the following week to players in envelopes. In this case, the envelope with the $200 profit to Vilma for the week was returned. "Gave back to kitty pool,'' the envelope containing the $200 read, according to the league.

There's little doubt the aggrieved players will find a way to take action against the league for the sanctions. But now that the league has shared its case with the press -- and, as a result, the public -- it's not quite the slam-dunk case of negligence the players have charged. Either way, this is a black eye that won't soon go away, and league officials seemed to take little joy in smearing such a charismatic franchise in a Manhattan boardroom at the start of a long, hot Monday.

"Does anyone think this is how we wanted to spend the offseason?'' Pash said, "taking one of the great stories of the NFL, the New Orleans Saints, where we're playing the Super Bowl this year, and having it dominate the headlines?''

No. But it is.

 

[Stranger]

PETER KING
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1yCDmQITN

"Does anyone think this is how we wanted to spend the offseason?'' Pash said, "taking one of the great stories of the NFL, the New Orleans Saints, where we're playing the Super Bowl this year, and having it dominate the headlines?''

No. But it is.

Well, it was Goodell who rammed this case down the fans' throats via the sport media, much of which the NFL controls or has enormous influence over. You reap what you sow.

Again, it would be nice to see this end up in court, so that the public can access the evidence submited in a fair and organized process, because right now we just have media spin.

Sorry folks, but the business side of the NFL is a piece of shit.

Not to invalidate your feelings or anything, but I just don't care. I'm posting this stuff as a service for those who do (care), but in the end, I really don't care what's going on with this case. If Goodell wants to run roughshod over the league and the players, and he goes basically unchecked, I still don't care. Big business is going to be the villain in every walk of life, so it's unrealistic to expect the NFL to be held to a higher standard. For what? Because they're the NFL? Meh. This is a bridge club full of billionaires. They're higher than big business.

Are the Rams playing?

Yeah?

That's all I care about.

I'll stay out of this now. :sly:

I appreciate you posting this stuff.

And I get that most don't care. I guess I care because I think BountyGate is part of a larger agenda that will destroy the game. Of course, I can't prove my case, but I smell a strong stench that concerns me.

And yes, I'll be much more content when the season starts.

 

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NFLPA Makes Exhibits Available for Review

https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Pub ... or-Review/

For months, the NFL Players Association requested access to the information gathered during the NFL's supposedly extensive investigation into the alleged Saints' bounty program. Though league officials repeatedly refused to provide the supposed evidence, per the CBA, the NFL was forced to provide documents three days before the hearing.

On Friday, the NFL provided 16 exhibits to the NFLPA that would be used against the players in today's hearing. While the exhibits can hardly be characterized as hard evidence, the NFLPA worked with various sources to help define what the items in the exhibits meant.

Click here to review the NFLPA's annotated version of select items in the exhibits:

Annotated Version of Exhibits

Click here to download the full exhibits:

League Exhibits 1-12

League Exhibits 13-16

 

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No evidence?

 

[Thordaddy]

Sorry but I just can't let the bigotry being manifest in the "since they are wealthy team owners they are automatically scum" slide.

The NFL is one of the most generous organizations in the world and have managed their finances in such a way as to present the chance to become quite wealthy to vast numbers of young men who but for those opportunities would be working at Jack in the Box.

Are they selfish,greedy ? well since everyone I know is , yeah I guess so, but they are no more possessed of common human failing than "average" people they are only possessed of greater drive.

Like X sez in that prelude to that article, or at least I think he's saying, I don't think the Saints were sitting in the locker room scratching their collective heads sayin' "WTF Greg be talkin ' bout ? I ain't heard of no bounties".

Vilma wants the whistle blowers names so the union thugs can "deal with him".

THAT is what IMO is the objective, someone inside "the brotherhood" broke the "omerta" and this proceeding is to "chill " future whistle blowing.

If "Big Labor" isn't AS dirty as big business it's only because it's dirtier. Ask "Bugsy" oh wait he's dead, scuse me IMA go look for Jimmy Hoffa,I heard he was having breakfast at that diner with Joe Biden :lmao:

 

[Stranger]

First, it's about due-process via a fair transparent system, and none of that happened here. It's not about any of the things that you refer.

Second, you need serious reorientation about the biz side of the NFL. Please start by reading ...

Interference: How Organized Crime Influences Professional Football
http://http://www.amazon.com/Interference-Organized-Influences-Professional-Football/dp/068808303X

The Dark Side Of The Game - My Life In The NFL
http://http://www.amazon.com/The-Dark-Side-Of-Game/dp/B000IW4VSM

I love the sport just as much as everyone here, but I am also under no illusions regarding the forces behind this corporate beast.

Edit: Video of Scott Fujita's response to NFL evidence. He's not very happy about the quality of the investigation either, and says he's seen nothing that implicates him in BountyGate

[nfl]09000d5d829eef60[/nfl]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d829eef60/Scott-Fujita-unsatisfied-with-bounty-evidence

 

[Anonymous]

These players are all whiners.

Shut up already.

 

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Doug Farrar
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html

Drew Brees should have stayed away from the Twitter this time. (Getty Images)

Remember yesterday, when we told you that the NFL took 12 reporters inside the ice cream factory and showed them a bunch of "explosive" evidence against the New Orleans Saints? Well, Saints quarterback Drew Brees evidently took that description to heart.

@drewbrees

Um ... yeah. Probably not a good idea to compare a process that got a few people suspended from professional football to a process (however flawed it may have been) that started a war that goes on in some iterations a decade later. That said, the point Brees is trying to make is that, just as with the WMD story, a governing body is dropping the hammer with what some would consider to be less then compelling evidence. In retrospect, former President George W. Bush called the "intelligence failure" his biggest regret during his eight years in office.

When the NFL gave 12 reporters access to the evidence used to discipline the Saints players during a meeting after Monday morning's appeal hearings, it became very clear that there was something very fishy going on in New Orleans. But to a man, those who saw the evidence were far more certain that the Saints should be sanctioned for their "pay-for-performance" system ... and far less certain that four players -- Jonathan Vilma, Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove, and Will Smith -- should be suspended for certain amounts of time.

To be fair to the players, there was far, far more evidence of the pay-for-performance claims than the bounty claims," SI.com's Peter King wrote. "In fact, the [Saints safety Roma] Harper claim was the only one the league showed that resulted in a payout to a player for knocking a player out of a game. However, the NFL has maintained all along that all it needs is evidence that a bounty program was in place and that money was offered to try to take opponents out of the game -- not that players were actually taken out of the game."

And that's where Fujita had a real leg to stand on when he responded to the process once Monday's hearings were over.

"I have yet to see anything that implicates me in some pay-to-injure scheme, not in the last three months, not in the last three days, not today,'' Fujita said. "And perhaps that's because there is nothing that can implicate me in some pay-to-injure scheme.'

"Throughout this process," he continued, "it has become increasingly clear to me that just because someone disagrees with the NFL's interpretation of an incredibly flawed investigation it's assumed that he's lying and to me and that's a shame. I've played 10 years in this league and throughout my career I've done nothing but conduct myself in a positive manner. This has impacted my reputation, this has impacted my ability to provide for my family now and in the future and I have a hard time with that. The NFL has been careless and irresponsible and they have made mistakes. At some point they have to answer questions."

NFLPA Lead Outside Counsel Richard Smith, who spoke to Shutdown Corner in early May, continues to insist that the NFL is running a "sloppy investigation." And while the NFL maintains that there is no agenda here, that's not really the point. It's clear, based on the evidence seen, that there's enough to hammer the Saints very hard, and deservingly so. And it's wrong of any Saints player who was involved to insist that there was nothing going on. But there is still no smoking gun, at least not one that has been made public -- nothing seen or heard that would drive any reasonable person to say, "Yeah, Jonathan Vilma needs to be out of the league for a full season."

And that's the problem to date. The NFL's case, as regards the specificity of the players' involvement, it still far spottier than anyone would like.

George W. Bush called the WMD fiasco "a do-over I can't do." The stakes are far smaller in this case (and Brees should know better than to compare the two), but there are still enough questions about how the NFL has handled this case to make a lot of people wonder if a do-over won't be required.

 

[Thordaddy]

Re:

First, it's about due-process via a fair transparent system, and none of that happened here. It's not about any of the things that you refer.

Second, you need serious reorientation about the biz side of the NFL. Please start by reading Interference, the dark side of the NFL.

I love the sport just as much as everyone here, but I am also under no illusions regarding the forces behind this corporate beast.

Well my "orientation" is my province ,as is yours, and in the end balance is needed in ALL.
I posted what I did in the interest OF BALANCE ,I don't doubt there are enough bungholes to go around in this, but since neither side is your dog nor mine as X alludes the transparency "needed " is their biz and nothing for either of me to twist my BVD's about.

 

[Thordaddy]

Re:

First, it's about due-process via a fair transparent system, and none of that happened here. It's not about any of the things that you refer.

Second, you need serious reorientation about the biz side of the NFL. Please start by reading ...

Interference: How Organized Crime Influences Professional Football
http://http://www.amazon.com/Interference-Organized-Influences-Professional-Football/dp/068808303X

The Dark Side Of The Game - My Life In The NFL
http://http://www.amazon.com/The-Dark-Side-Of-Game/dp/B000IW4VSM

I love the sport just as much as everyone here, but I am also under no illusions regarding the forces behind this corporate beast.

Edit: Video of Scott Fujita's response to NFL evidence. He's not very happy about the quality of the investigation either, and says he's seen nothing that implicates him in BountyGate

[nfl]09000d5d829eef60[/nfl]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d829eef60/Scott-Fujita-unsatisfied-with-bounty-evidence

No Oliver Stone movie?

 

[Stranger]

It's a full-on media war now. One can really start to see who the NFL media lapdogs are, as sportswriter take sides that are clear for all to see.

Told John Madden today to tell Roger to just release all the damn evidence so fans can make-up their own minds. I think they're starting to get concerned about the negative media and credibility gap.

First, it's about due-process via a fair transparent system, and none of that happened here. It's not about any of the things that you refer.

Second, you need serious reorientation about the biz side of the NFL. Please start by reading Interference, the dark side of the NFL.

I love the sport just as much as everyone here, but I am also under no illusions regarding the forces behind this corporate beast.

Well my "orientation" is my province ,as is yours, and in the end balance is needed in ALL.
I posted what I did in the interest OF BALANCE ,I don't doubt there are enough bungholes to go around in this, but since neither side is your dog nor mine as X alludes the transparency "needed " is their biz and nothing for either of me to twist my BVD's about.

Right, we have differing orientations. I'm just suggesting that you add some behind-the-scenes reporting to your orientation.

By the way, what is a BVD?

And to add to the Twitter war, here is what Vilma had to say today... ouch
https://twitter.com/JonVilma51/status/2 ... 3375226880

Brian Zanca ‏@Bzanca

@JonVilma51 why would they lie just to suspend you. They wouldn't want to lose you your a big name player.

Jonathan Vilma ‏@JonVilma51

@Bzanca they though they had something that turned out to be nothing. I'm a scapegoat for the concussion lawsuit they're dealing with