River's Post Senior Bowl Mock ...

[Riverumbbq]

My final mock until the Combine, I promise.

OK, I decided to flip this mock on its backside with something a bit more unexpected, a free agency which is dominated with defensive pick-ups and another draft leaning heavily towards the offense. Yup, you heard that right. I've also included two trades, something which I hadn't added previously. 1) The Jets are a rebuilding team and will likely draft a QB with their first pick, but they also need OG's for protection and run blocking while getting the poor guy up and going before he gets himself killed. As jrry mentioned earlier, they also have little in the way of an edge rush, so I offer both Quinn & Brown for N.Y.'s 2'nd & 3'rd round draft picks. 2) The Rams are looking for an eventual potential LT that hopefully may someday be able to occupy Whitworth's shoes, so we trade both our new picks from the Jets (#37 & # 72) in order to move up into Buffalo's second 1'st round pick at #22. This trade works out quite fairly with the NFL Trade Value Chart. This mock allows us to strengthen our OL depth and prepare for the eventual departure of Whitworth, it replaces our primary need at #1 CB with what I believe is a better player, and quite possibly puts our defense in the 5 - 10 rank.

CAP cutting Austin, Barron & Quinn adds over $21mil. to our already previously scheduled $45mil. of available CAP, and all three of these positions can be improved upon for far less money. Extending Saffold now also saves CAP in 2018 as well as preserves a top Lineman for our team's future as we look towards 2019 when both Havenstein & Brown could enter free agency. Finally, Tremaine Edmunds looks like the prototypical pass rushing OLB college prospect we all covet with excellent speed and great length. I added Rogers to the 53 for his additional pass catching skills and would love to see strengthened blocking for our RB's & QB. Butler will sign for less than TruJo has been costing us and Norwell will essentially be taking the CAP space of Watkins had I instead chosen to re-sign him. With approximately $66.mil in available CAP space, signing the 4 new free agents and re-signing the players we want to keep shouldn't be all that difficult, so I present you with the team which will take us to next years Super Bowl ...

Traded : Robert Quinn & Jamon Brown to the Jets
CAP Cut : Austin, Barron & Quinn.
Extend : Donald & Saffold.
Re-sign : Joyner, Sullivan, Robey-Coleman, Easley (if healthy), Cody Davis & McQuaide.
Re-sign vet minimum and possible camp cuts Tyrunn Walker, Cornelious Lucas
Tender all RFA's (Longacre, Hill, D.Williams, M. Brown, Lynch)

Let walk - Sammy Watkins, Tru Johnson, Connor Barwin, Lance Dunbar, Derek Carrier

Free agency signings (4) :

CB - Malcolm Butler (N.E.) - 27
RG - Andrew Norwell (Carolina) - 26
ILB - Todd Davis (Denver) - 25
NT - Justin Ellis (Oakland) - 27

2018 Draft :

1-22) OLB - Tremaine Edmonds, VTech
1-23) OT - Orlando Brown, Ok.
2) Received from NYJ - Traded to Buffalo
3a) Received from NYJ - Traded to Buffalo
3b) WR - DJ Chark, LSU (Outstanding Senior Bowl game)
4) RB - Mark Walton, Miami (change of pace outside threat, Austin replacement)
5) C/OG - Austin Corbett, Nv.
6a) QB - Kurt Benkert, Va.
6b) CB - Brandon Facyson, VTech
6c) OT - Alex Cappa, Hum.St. (to the practice squad)


The 53 :

Offense (25) :

QB) Goff, Mannion, Benkert
RB) Gurley, M. Brown, Walton
FB) Rogers
WR) Reynolds, Woods, Kupp, Cooper, Chark, Thomas
TE) Higbee, Everett, Hemingway
LT) Whitworth, O.Brown, Lucas
LG) Saffold, Blythe, Corbett
C) Sullivan, Corbett, Blythe
RG) Norwell, Corbett
RT) Havenstein, Lucas, O.Brown

Defense (25) :

LDE) Brockers, Easley, Fox
NT) Ellis, Walker, Westbrooks
RDE) Donald, Westbrooks, Fox
LOLB) Ebukam, Sickels
ILB) Davis, Hager
ILB) Ogletree, Littleton, Lynch
ROLB) Edmonds, Longacre
FS) Joyner, Davis
SS) John Johnson, Isaiah Johnson
CB) Butler, Webster, Robey-Coleman, Hill, Facyson

Special Teams (3)

K) Zuerlein
P) Hekker
LS) McQuaide


jmo.

 

[Riverumbbq]

My apologies, noticed a mistake where i've mentioned Quinn as a CAP Casualty, ... he was actually traded to the Jets in this mock.

 

[Riverumbbq]

C'mon guys, no reactions one way or the other ?

Don't like the trades ? Don't like the free agents ? Don't like the draft ? Don't like the cuts ? Don't like Reynolds & Chark competing for Watkins' job ? Don't want to add depth to the OL ?

Let me have it, I can take it, but nothing ? ... That is hard to handle.

 

[nighttrain]

like your ideas except i think we need to keep these 3, Sammy Watkins, Tru Johnson, Connor Barwin
train

 

[OldSchool]

Few things for me personally. I'm just not a fan of cutting Quinn. It's another situation where we cut a productive player as fans because we thing it'll be easy to replace him and IMO it creates a hole that's harder to fill than we think.

I love the Ellis and Davis signings. I've been on the Davis signing for a long time now and Ellis is one guy I looked at instead of drafting a NT. Both will go a long ways to helping our run defense.

Not sure I want Butler over TruJo, though if we lose out on him I get the targeting him. Both will cost about the same and I'd rather stick with what we have in that case as long as Wade's ok with him. That said I'm starting to think we send our 5th to Denver for Talib. Just a hunch.

I took Cappa in my mock in the 4th and was told I was insane he wouldn't last that long but I love the pick and also had Corbett so like him as well. You list him at Center but I'm not sure that's where he ends up, more of a Guard to me.

Trades are hard to predict in the off season, I personally think it's much more likely we trade down than anything so I usually don't have many of them and when I do I try to be pessimistic about the returns.

I like a lot of it but those are the thoughts I have.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Few things for me personally. I'm just not a fan of cutting Quinn.

This isn't a cut, it's a trade.

 

[OldSchool]

This isn't a cut, it's a trade.

I should have said getting rid of him. Whether he’s cut or traded my point stands, he won’t be easy to replace in the draft and a free agent who can match his production is as expensive or more.

 

[8to12]

C'mon guys, no reactions one way or the other ?

Don't like the trades ? Don't like the free agents ? Don't like the draft ? Don't like the cuts ? Don't like Reynolds & Chark competing for Watkins' job ? Don't want to add depth to the OL ?

Let me have it, I can take it, but nothing ? ... That is hard to handle.

1) I don't agree with the trade. Mostly due to giving up Quinn and his production on the Edge. I don't think that can be replaced. I can live with breaking up the cohesion of the O-line if you are upgrading one of the spots by a good margin. And, you may be doing that with Norwell.
2) Drafting Edmunds as an Edge player ..... I don't see him playing on the Edge for the Rams. All of the tape I have seen, he plays inside. On some plays he is near the outside, but it is on pass plays where he has dropped into coverage. Voch Lombardi even calls him a MLB on his YouTube tape review. If the Rams were to draft him, I would play him next to Ogletree as Mark Barron's replacement. I do agree with drafting him in the First round but for ILB not OLB.
3) Orlando Brown ; I don't see him as a LT in the NFL and don't think he's worth a first round pick. Brown doesn't bend at the hips or the knees which makes him play too high. He has a nice long reach, but it will be nullified if he can't lower his pad level to stop edge rushers that like to bend the edge. If I use a first round pick on an O-lineman, I would take Wynn from Georgia or Hernandez from UTEP as an instant upgrade at Guard.
4) Regarding the rest of the class, I don't see anyone that is an upgrade over what is already on the roster. Cappa is interesting. He could be the 3rd OT in competition with Lucas while he gets some experience. Maybe he has a higher upside than Lucas?
Last thought .... The Rams lost to 3 of the 4 NFC teams that went to the Divisional round of the playoffs. We couldn't beat the Eagles or the Falcons at home, and they lost to the Vikings on the road. To me, it is obvious there has to be some improvement in the defense to make it to the next level. A couple of the players you list will probably help but many I see as a wash.

 

[Riverumbbq]

1) I don't agree with the trade. Mostly due to giving up Quinn and his production on the Edge. I don't think that can be replaced. I can live with breaking up the cohesion of the O-line if you are upgrading one of the spots by a good margin. And, you may be doing that with Norwell.
2) Drafting Edmunds as an Edge player ..... I don't see him playing on the Edge for the Rams. All of the tape I have seen, he plays inside. On some plays he is near the outside, but it is on pass plays where he has dropped into coverage. Voch Lombardi even calls him a MLB on his YouTube tape review. If the Rams were to draft him, I would play him next to Ogletree as Mark Barron's replacement. I do agree with drafting him in the First round but for ILB not OLB.
3) Orlando Brown ; I don't see him as a LT in the NFL and don't think he's worth a first round pick. Brown doesn't bend at the hips or the knees which makes him play too high. He has a nice long reach, but it will be nullified if he can't lower his pad level to stop edge rushers that like to bend the edge. If I use a first round pick on an O-lineman, I would take Wynn from Georgia or Hernandez from UTEP as an instant upgrade at Guard.
4) Regarding the rest of the class, I don't see anyone that is an upgrade over what is already on the roster. Cappa is interesting. He could be the 3rd OT in competition with Lucas while he gets some experience. Maybe he has a higher upside than Lucas?
Last thought .... The Rams lost to 3 of the 4 NFC teams that went to the Divisional round of the playoffs. We couldn't beat the Eagles or the Falcons at home, and they lost to the Vikings on the road. To me, it is obvious there has to be some improvement in the defense to make it to the next level. A couple of the players you list will probably help but many I see as a wash.

Thanks for your breakdown :

1) Personally, I'd trade Quinn for a 2'nd round pick all day, every day. Yes, he had 8 sacks, but there is more to being an edge rusher than just the sacks. We need him to be consistent in applying pressure and hurries and we need him to play far better against the run. He's not a 3 down LB'er like he was as a 4-3 DE when his previous contract was signed, he's also missed 17 starts under this contract. In coverage he ranked worse than every LB on the team other than Ogletree. For a CAP hit higher than $12.mil, he's not delivering that kind of performance. He'll be 28 years old next year and as he ages he'll also be harder to trade for a good draft pick, another injury at his cost and the Rams will pay a big price. I'd prefer to see him return to a 4-3 base D and try to get some decent compensation while we can. PFF ranked him #87 overall out of all the 106 graded edge rushers in 2017.

2) Just watching Edmunds' production tells me he would succeed quite well on the edge, he has the size, build, length & quick step which is so desirable & essential as an OLB. If you have watched his UTube tape you have already witnessed his ability in coverage, and he doesn't avoid tackles at all. VTech plays a 4-3 D, Edmunds was positioned at SAM, MIKE and sometimes as a DE in their system. Various websites have him listed as an OLB or MLB. Virginia tried to recruit him for their 3-4 D, but he chose to go to VTech with his brother. I'd as soon take him and save millions of dollars for use elsewhere. Edmunds has been rapidly moving up the chart over the last two-three weeks, so he may be gone, although I still see him in mocks ranging in the 10-25 area. Jmho, but i'd venture that Edmunds matches or beats Quinn's 2017 production year one.

3) Orlando Brown has been listed as a 1'st rounder for the most part of this season, for awhile right at the very top. Hard to say how Kromer will evaluate him, but he does like big guys, and Brown would certainly fit that bill. If he really is 6'8" and 350lbs., he could probably stand to lose some weight as his issues have been with speed and his bend. The guy is a road grader and may be more ideal at RT, but as Baker Mayfield's blindside protector for the last couple seasons, he's done very well. Either way, he fixes a serious depth problem for the Rams wherever he plays, and he is probably the best OT available where we would draft him. This also averts a potential crisis should Havenstein leave us in the 2019 free agency period.

4) Well, OK then. We are all welcome to our own opinions, but ...

a) OG - Andrew Norwell (PFF rank #3) > Jamon Brown (PFF rank #38) Also, no more crisis over whether Brown leaves us in 2019 free agency.

b) CB - Malcolm Butler (PFF rank #51) > Tru Johnson (PFF rank-#68) - even if considered a 'wash', if Tru goes we need someone as a quality replacement.

c) NT - Justin Ellis (PFF rank #45) > Ethan Westbrooks (PFF rank #71), Tyrunn Walker (PFF rank #110), Tanzel Smart (PFF rank #121)

d) ILB - Todd Davis (PFF rank #34) = Mark Barron (PFF rank #45) I'll give you a 'wash' on this one because they are both good at different things, but the Rams really need an upgrade in rush defense and that is where Davis shines. As with moving on from Quinn to a draft pick, moving on from Barron to Davis saves millions in CAP.

jmo.

 

[Riverumbbq]

like your ideas except i think we need to keep these 3, Sammy Watkins, Tru Johnson, Connor Barwin
train

I'm curious why Connor Barwin is on your list here ? Is he inexpensive depth or don't you believe Ebukam has proven himself yet ? What would be your maximum offers for Watkins & TruJo before you started seeking an alternative ?

 

[nighttrain]

Connor Barwin Is inexpensive depth, Wakins 3 years at 9 per and Trujo @ 10 for 5
train

 

[BonifayRam]

I had a problem with your big trade up front. I could not digest it. I also had a hiccup on trading off our starting RG.

I guess the real issue is Rob Quinn .....he has some value but not much. Quinn is vastly overrated IMO.


I really liked all your cuts & signs
UFA Todd Davis ILB
UFA Malcolm Butler CB


but the suggested draft left me ... Sorry Riverumbbq:cheers:

 

[Merlin]

The main problem I think is moving Quinn and then thinking that Edmunds is going to be there at 23. He won't be there. You simply do not find guys like him at 23 overall. He is huge, a freak talent, and a fit in every scheme. Only way we'd get him is with a trade up.

Much more appropriate would be Landry, or Key, or a move down and a guy like Carter.

 

[Riverumbbq]

but the suggested draft left me ... Sorry Riverumbbq:cheers:

That's cool, but could you be more specific about your reasons ?

I understand that i'm about the only one here favoring Edmunds, seems Payne is becoming a consensus choice among the masses, but what is it about these picks that have left you 'flat' ?

 

[BonifayRam]

That's cool, but could you be more specific about your reasons ?

I understand that i'm about the only one here favoring Edmunds, seems Payne is becoming a consensus choice among the masses, but what is it about these picks that have left you 'flat' ?

I had to have my septic tank pumped this morning about the same time I was reading your post. I was not deep in clear thinking..... I get back with you once I get caught up with normal life around here.....

 

[Riverumbbq]

The main problem I think is moving Quinn and then thinking that Edmunds is going to be there at 23. He won't be there. You simply do not find guys like him at 23 overall. He is huge, a freak talent, and a fit in every scheme. Only way we'd get him is with a trade up.

Much more appropriate would be Landry, or Key, or a move down and a guy like Carter.

Quinn isn't a free agent, so he wouldn't have to be 'moved' until after the draft, although for the purposes of this mock I traded him to gain access to Buffalo's early pick for an OT. Forgetting any potential future trades, while you and I speak highly of Edmunds, his problem may be more about finding a team in need than BPA. For many, Roquan Smith will be the first LB off the board. Seems also that many are pegging Edmunds basicly as an ILB. I've only caught wind of three mocks that have him going top 10, the rest appear to have him scattered anywhere from the middle of the round to somewhere in the 2'nd round. My real fear is that he will cement a top 10 talent status at the Combine ... and then you'll be getting another mock.
In fact, according to better than 50% of the mocks I see, looks like Payne, Vea, Joshua Jackson, Billy Price, Key & Ward come off the board before Edmunds. It's all in the air until after the Combine anyway, so we'll soon see where the chips fall. jmo.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I had to have my septic tank pumped this morning about the same time I was reading your post.

Man, I know you didn't like my mock, but that first sentence really had me worried ...

 

[Merlin]

For many, Roquan Smith will be the first LB off the board

Any GM who takes Smith over him needs to be fired. IMO.

 

[BonifayRam]

That's cool, but could you be more specific about your reasons ?
I understand that i'm about the only one here favoring Edmunds, seems Payne is becoming a consensus choice among the masses, but what is it about these picks that have left you 'flat' ?

You asked for it :notsure:.Here some of the elements that unsettled me.

1st -NFL.com Draft site has Tremaine Edmunds rated as the top defensive player in this draft. Most all mock drafts have Edmunds going #9 to the 9ers But I understand your thoughts here that he would be a great replacement for the overpriced Quinn. IMO that trade would never be considered. So the first round was deleted in my small mind.

2nd- Rams offense is full of young play toys everywhere & the receiving units (WR/SL/RB/TE/HB) is very young crammed full of talent best overall receiving unit in 15 yrs. With the Rams having serious needs for youth & salary cap easement in so many other units especially on defense ...you utilized our 3rd rd selection to make an already fat receiving units more obese while other units starve:death:.

3rd- then you use our first selection on the third day (4th round) on another offensive player. You picked a RB. Grant you my take on the Rams future RB/FB stable is held higher than most. So let me paint a complete picture as I see it now for our 2018 RB cadre....Besides Gurley High probability that our #2 RB Malcolm Brown will be tendered & signed for another 2 seasons. Brown will be entering his 4th season in the NFL in 2018 with 29 NFL gms under his belt with one start. Our #3 RB Austin Davis was here all season in 2017.....sure looked outstanding in all pre season (with one bad skill poor ball control)& should once again have the opportunity to prove he is ready to take up the work that Austin & Dunbar were paid to do in last season.

I would not forget about the other Rams RB's either ......McVay drafted a multi purpose Jack of all trade backfield operative in our #4 RB Sam Rogers in the 6th round with future demands to be made of this Virginia Tech product. Rogers has experience as ball carrier, pass catcher, pass protector and lead blocker. Said to be able (but in limited cameo ops Rogers did not do well) block from multiple sets and formations from many starts in college..

Then there an unknown gold nugget under contract for long time named #5 RB Lenard Tillery, RB, Southern - 5'10" 200 pounder. He is said to be an explosive back, with fairly good speed, & a good kick returner. At Southern, Tillery became the SWAC's all time leading rusher after walking on. He was named as a standout out at the NFLPA Shrine game.Finally there's #6 RB/FB named Zack Laskey who has been a Rams since 2015. So he will be entering his 4th Training Camp this summer . Once again he appears like a multi purpose player when looking at his production @ Georgia Tech. his main issue has been staying Healthy.

4th- I really have no issues with your use of our 5th round selection on a OL'er but I would not pick an interior OL'er but would stay fixed on OT's instead. Rams do not have any OT's under contract but Withworth & Havenstein. We know that Havenstein is a UFA this time next yr & Whitworth is the oldest starting LT in the NFL.

5th issue...So in your mock at this time at the end of the 5th rd Rams have not drafted any CB's or NT's? I would have heartburn with this. Rams will soon have a very large amount of salary cap funds tied up in 2 DL'ers Donald & Brockers. I would not take the route that you mocked & add even more chunks of salary cap funds by purchasing a high $$$ NT named Justin Ellis. Ellis took off the pounds & had a very solid season he is going in his 5th season & will get paid a little under what Logan will get. I would just would not go in this direction. If I going to pay high priced linemen I going to do that on the offensive line where we have mega departures up & coming. The DL does not. I going to utilize the draft (budget priced NT's) to get some relief in the amount of cap $$ involved in the DL plus gets some talented youth too.

The rest of your mock looks great!:cheers:

 

[Riverumbbq]

You asked for it :notsure:.Here some of the elements that unsettled me.

1st -NFL.com Draft site has Tremaine Edmunds rated as the top defensive player in this draft. Most all mock drafts have Edmunds going #9 to the 9ers But I understand your thoughts here that he would be a great replacement for the overpriced Quinn. IMO that trade would never be considered. So the first round was deleted in my small mind.

2nd- Rams offense is full of young play toys everywhere & the receiving units (WR/SL/RB/TE/HB) is very young crammed full of talent best overall receiving unit in 15 yrs. With the Rams having serious needs for youth & salary cap easement in so many other units especially on defense ...you utilized our 3rd rd selection to make an already fat receiving units more obese while other units starve:death:.

3rd- then you use our first selection on the third day (4th round) on another offensive player. You picked a RB. Grant you my take on the Rams future RB/FB stable is held higher than most. So let me paint a complete picture as I see it now for our 2018 RB cadre....Besides Gurley High probability that our #2 RB Malcolm Brown will be tendered & signed for another 2 seasons. Brown will be entering his 4th season in the NFL in 2018 with 29 NFL gms under his belt with one start. Our #3 RB Austin Davis was here all season in 2017.....sure looked outstanding in all pre season (with one bad skill poor ball control)& should once again have the opportunity to prove he is ready to take up the work that Austin & Dunbar were paid to do in last season.

I would not forget about the other Rams RB's either ......McVay drafted a multi purpose Jack of all trade backfield operative in our #4 RB Sam Rogers in the 6th round with future demands to be made of this Virginia Tech product. Rogers has experience as ball carrier, pass catcher, pass protector and lead blocker. Said to be able (but in limited cameo ops Rogers did not do well) block from multiple sets and formations from many starts in college..

Then there an unknown gold nugget under contract for long time named #5 RB Lenard Tillery, RB, Southern - 5'10" 200 pounder. He is said to be an explosive back, with fairly good speed, & a good kick returner. At Southern, Tillery became the SWAC's all time leading rusher after walking on. He was named as a standout out at the NFLPA Shrine game.Finally there's #6 RB/FB named Zack Laskey who has been a Rams since 2015. So he will be entering his 4th Training Camp this summer . Once again he appears like a multi purpose player when looking at his production @ Georgia Tech. his main issue has been staying Healthy.

4th- I really have no issues with your use of our 5th round selection on a OL'er but I would not pick an interior OL'er but would stay fixed on OT's instead. Rams do not have any OT's under contract but Withworth & Havenstein. We know that Havenstein is a UFA this time next yr & Whitworth is the oldest starting LT in the NFL.

5th issue...So in your mock at this time at the end of the 5th rd Rams have not drafted any CB's or NT's? I would have heartburn with this. Rams will soon have a very large amount of salary cap funds tied up in 2 DL'ers Donald & Brockers. I would not take the route that you mocked & add even more chunks of salary cap funds by purchasing a high $$$ NT named Justin Ellis. Ellis took off the pounds & had a very solid season he is going in his 5th season & will get paid a little under what Logan will get. I would just would not go in this direction. If I going to pay high priced linemen I going to do that on the offensive line where we have mega departures up & coming. The DL does not. I going to utilize the draft (budget priced NT's) to get some relief in the amount of cap $$ involved in the DL plus gets some talented youth too.

The rest of your mock looks great!:cheers:

My rebuttal :

1'st) This wasn't the case when I first named Edmunds as my #23 pick back on Jan. 23. He was a late 1'st and primarily a 2'nd round mock choice until he began flying up the charts beginning a few weeks ago. Edmunds could very well become an early 49'ers pick, but they also have big needs elsewhere at CB, OL & WR.

2'nd) My 3'rd round choice of WR DJ Chark was to add competition for Reynolds as Watkins was allowed to walk since his contract demands may just become too high, and our 'fat' receiving corps isn't quite so rotund without Watkins leading the pack.

3'rd) RB Mark Walton gives the Rams a true change of pace threat. While I have nothing against Tillery or Laskey, neither could make last seasons roster, and the guy I liked as #3 Justin Davis appeared out of favor with McVay as he couldn't get on the field. By the way, I didn't forget about Sam Rogers, look again, he was previously named to the 53. Are you sure you read my mock before commenting ?

4'th) Well, I have 2 OT's in my draft already, the C/OG Corbett pick is for depth and in case Brown leaves us in the 2019 free agency period.

5'th) No, and this is where not having a 2'nd round pick hurts, although I had previously taken the best CB in free agency and will rely on Hill to continue to press his progress in his competition with Webster for 2018. I did draft CB Facyson in the 6'th for added depth, but once Joshua Jackson came off the board earlier in the 1'st round, I changed strategy and will wait until 2019 to draft a higher CB.

jmo.