Pitching change

[PARAM]

I have been looking at the great individual seasons on the mound. Koufax, Guidry, Gooden, etc. I find it amazing at the changes in pitching philosophy. How did those guys like Warren Spahn last so long and pitch so many innings? That used to be called having a "rubber arm". Is the present idea to throw it as hard as you can for as long as you can....which is usually 5 to 6 innings? But didn't Bob Feller throw hard? He's #49 all time in IP (3827) with 279 complete games. And he lost 3 years to the military (age 23-25). But that's nothing like Warren Spahn.....363 wins, 382 complete games, #8 all time in IP (5243). Nolan Ryan threw extremely hard and he amassed 5386 IP (#5 all time) but 160 less complete games than Spahn. It's got to be "rubber arm" syndrome with Spahn. He's one of only 4 guys in the "modern era" in the top 25 for complete games who pitched after 1920.

#5 Walter Johnson (1907-1927) 531 CG / 5914.1 IP
#13 Grover Alexander (1911-1930) 436 CG / 5190 IP
#21 Warren Spahn (1942-1965) 382 CG / 5243.2 IP
#24 Ted Lyons (1923-1946) 356 CG / 4161 IP

As far as 10 best performances (modern era), sub 2.00 ERA + 20 wins, I'd have to list them by ERA..... (won World Series that season)

Gibson, St. Louis (1968) 1.12, 22-9, 268 Ks ..... the question has always been, "how in the hell did he lose 9 games?"
Gooden, NY Mets (1985) 1.53, 24-4, 268 K's
Tiant, Cleve (1968) 1.60, 21-9, 264 K's
Chance, LAA (1964) 1.65, 20-9, 207 K's
Koufax, LA (1966) 1.73, 27-9, 317 K's

Guidry, NY Yankees (1978) 1.74, 25-3, 248 K's
Seaver, NY Mets (1971) 1.76, 20-10, 289 K's
Vida Blue, Oakland (1971) 1.82, 24-8, 301 K's
Koufax, LA (1963) 1.88, 25-5, 306 K's
Carlton, Phil (1972) 1.97, 27-10, 310 K's ..... Perhaps top 5 playing on a team that only won 59 games total

There are probably a few I missed......add them if you wish.

 

[snackdaddy]

Nolan Ryan still had a dominant fastball in his last season at 46 years old. He tore a ligament in his elbow in September that year ending his career. His last pitch was reported to be 98 mph. That is unreal.

When I first started following baseball in the early 70's pitchers were typically starting 40 games or more per season. Now its barely over 30. One pitcher had 34 starts. 5 had 33. The rest 32 or less.

Pitchers these days, especially the young ones, are throwing a lot harder. 40 starts would be very risky for those guys. Back in the day starting pitchers threw a lot more complete games than they do now. In 1966 there were 1263 complete games. 60 years later there were 21 complete games. There are so many one inning specialists these days, complete games are becoming rare. 4860 games with the 30 teams and only 21 of them complete.

 

[Memento]

I have been looking at the great individual seasons on the mound. Koufax, Guidry, Gooden, etc. I find it amazing at the changes in pitching philosophy. How did those guys like Warren Spahn last so long and pitch so many innings? That used to be called having a "rubber arm". Is the present idea to throw it as hard as you can for as long as you can....which is usually 5 to 6 innings? But didn't Bob Feller throw hard? He's #49 all time in IP (3827) with 279 complete games. And he lost 3 years to the military (age 23-25). But that's nothing like Warren Spahn.....363 wins, 382 complete games, #8 all time in IP (5243). Nolan Ryan threw extremely hard and he amassed 5386 IP (#5 all time) but 160 less complete games than Spahn. It's got to be "rubber arm" syndrome with Spahn. He's one of only 4 guys in the "modern era" in the top 25 for complete games who pitched after 1920.

#5 Walter Johnson (1907-1927) 531 CG / 5914.1 IP
#13 Grover Alexander (1911-1930) 436 CG / 5190 IP
#21 Warren Spahn (1942-1965) 382 CG / 5243.2 IP
#24 Ted Lyons (1923-1946) 356 CG / 4161 IP

As far as 10 best performances (modern era), sub 2.00 ERA + 20 wins, I'd have to list them by ERA..... (won World Series that season)

Gibson, St. Louis (1968) 1.12, 22-9, 268 Ks ..... the question has always been, "how in the hell did he lose 9 games?"
Gooden, NY Mets (1985) 1.53, 24-4, 268 K's
Tiant, Cleve (1968) 1.60, 21-9, 264 K's
Chance, LAA (1964) 1.65, 20-9, 207 K's
Koufax, LA (1966) 1.73, 27-9, 317 K's

Guidry, NY Yankees (1978) 1.74, 25-3, 248 K's
Seaver, NY Mets (1971) 1.76, 20-10, 289 K's
Vida Blue, Oakland (1971) 1.82, 24-8, 301 K's
Koufax, LA (1963) 1.88, 25-5, 306 K's
Carlton, Phil (1972) 1.97, 27-10, 310 K's ..... Perhaps top 5 playing on a team that only won 59 games total

There are probably a few I missed......add them if you wish.

Dizzy Dean (Cardinals) had a hell of a year in 1934: was the MVP in the N.L. (which is a good sign, considering the Cy Young award didn't exist until more than a decade after he retired): he had thirty wins (to seven losses) to go along with seven saves, a 2.66 ERA, a 1.165 WHIP, and 311.2 innings pitched in fifty games. To go for advanced stats, he had an 8.9 WAR, 3.23 FIP, and an approximate 131 ERA+ (all of which are excellent). Oh, and he won the World Series that year as well.

If there was a Cy back then, he would've won it multiple years. Dizzy Dean is a really fucking underrated pitcher and the best pitcher the Cardinals ever had, second only to Gibby.

(As a note, I can't count Steve Carlton, since he essentially had his best years as a Philly for his career; he'd have been our second-best pitcher if he stayed his entire career, but goddamnit, I'm still pissed at how the Cardinals traded him over money, when he was walking to the office to sign the contract with them, no less - and I wasn't even born at the time!)

But I digress. Dizzy was an outstanding pitcher. His peak from 1932 to 1936 was amazing, and were it not for that line drive that broke his toe in the All-Star game (which forced him to alter his pitching motion, and thus hurt his arm), he would be regarded as one of the all-time greats as a pitcher, period. He pitched in every situation: as a complete game starter, a closer, a fireman, anything the Gashouse Gang needed, he was there. Just an incredible pitcher.

I may be a tad biased; not only am I a Cardinal fan, obviously, but the Cardinals hat I own has a silver clip on it featuring Dizzy.

 

[PARAM]

I may be a tad biased

That's not biased. Here's how your boy stacked up vs some other greats

I was looking over some multi-year runs of pitchers both before and after they lowered the mound. I settled on 5 years with sub 3.00 ERAs and a .600 win percentage. There have been some impressive runs. Here's 20 of them. 1 of them, Koufax, had a sub 2.00 ERA, which is domination.

*Grove, Phil A's (1928 - 1932) 128-33, 2.56 (.795 win %) 119 CG
Pedro, Bos (1998 - 2002) 87-24, 2.27 (.784) 18 CG
*Koufax, LA (1962 - 1966) 111-34, 1.95 ERA (.766) 100 CG
*Kershaw, LA (2011 - 2015) 88-33, 2.11 ERA (.727) 20 CG
*Guidry, NYY (1977 - 1981) 87-33, 2.68 ERA (.725) 45 CG

Gooden, NYM (1984 - 1988) 91-35, 2.62 ERA (.722) 52 CG
*Ford, NYY (1961 - 1965) 99-38, 2.85 ERA (.722) 52 CG
*Ford, NYY (1953 -1957) 83-32, 2.70 (.719) 63 CG
Marichal, SF (1962 - 1966) 111-46, 2.50 ERA (.707) 107 CG
Palmer, BALT (1969 - 1973) 99-42, 2.45 ERA (.702)** 85 CG

*Hubbell, NYG (1933 -1937) 115-50, 2.52 (.697) 114 CG
Hunter, OAK-NYY (1971 - 1975) 111-49, 2.65 (.694) 96 CG
Feller, Clev (1939 - 1946***) 107-51, 2.67 (.677) 126 CG >>>> ***missed 3.5 yrs in the military
Gibson, STL (1966 - 1970) 99-48, 2.30 ERA (.673) 109 CG
Seaver, NYM (1969-1973) 103-51, 2.35 ERA (.669) 89 CG

*Carlton, Phil (1977 - 1981) 94-47, 2.77 (.667) 65 CG
Dizzy D., STL (1933 - 1937) 115-60, 2.94 (.657) 124 CG
Palmer, BALT (1975 - 1979) 96-53, 2.58 ERA (.644)** 96 CG
Roberts, Phil (1951 -1955) 118-67, 2.91 ERA (.638) 140 CG >>>>> Led NL in wins and CG 1952-55
Drydale, LA (1961 - 1965) 98-64, 2.78 ERA (.605) 87 CG

*LH

** Arm issues in 1974 for Palmer (7-12, 3.27), and still a helluva 11 year run. (202-107, 2.57)

## Looking at those numbers, I thought Hubbell vs Dizzy Dean must have been quite the matchup to see. 1933-1937 they both had superior runs. AI tells me they faced each other just 3 times with Hubbell winning all three.....4-1, 2-1 and 2-1.

EDIT: I didn't include Warren Spahn (who pitched until age 44) on that list because I couldn't find a stretch of sub 3.00/ .600+ win pct. I wanted to note, he and Marichal pitched what is considered the greatest pitched game of all time. July 2nd, 1963: 16 innings, both pitched the entire game and Spahn lost on a homer by Willie Mays in the bottom of the 16th. At the time, Marichal was 25 years old and Spahn 42. There is a terrific book about that game. There's a book all about it......The Greatest Game Ever Pitched: Juan Marichal, Warren Spahn, and the Pitching Duel of the Century by Jim Kaplan

Here are the pitching lines:
Spahn 15.1 IP, 9 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 2 K
Marichal 16.0 IP, 8 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 4 BB, 10 K

Must have been great to watch.

Here is Spahn's best 5 years:
1956-60 105-48, 3.00 ERA (.644) 100 CG.