Phillips' defensive approach vs Gregg Williams

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
49,232
Name
Burger man
I think we all loved the bravado of Gregg Williams. Yet... while our defenses were "good"... we never performed "great" for extended periods. And... while respected around the league... not exactly feared.

Williams "bend but don't break" approach failed to hold any momentum we gained on offense (insert giggle here). If we scored, you could bank the other team would at least put a couple of first downs together on their next possession. It was frustrating to watch us "give cushion" to hope for a dropped pass or mistake to slow down the high percentage plays we were happy to allow.

In addition, how much "thinking" was required to play in the Williams scheme?

So...

While I've always felt we had a good defense... I was wondering if it was possible we'd step back under Wade... or will we perform better?

I found this article from 2016 describing the Phillips approach on defense. It's a good read.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/20/broncos-defense-upended-nfl-simple/

It is the Broncos’ “Bear” call. Sylvester Williams, a hulking, 313-pound nose tackle, the largest player on Denver’s defensive line, a guy who gets paid to get in the way, drops into pass coverage.

“That ain’t normal,” Williams said. “But that’s one of my favorite plays.”

His job on this play is to keep a running back from catching the ball. No defense ever asks a nose tackle to play like a cornerback. The Broncos are not like everyone else.

“We’re different — a lot different,” he said.

When the Denver defense lines up next month to open the season in a rematch against Carolina quarterback Cam Newton and the Panthers, it will be trying to duplicate one of the most impressive playoff showings of all time, capped by a brilliant Super Bowl. In that game, Denver sacked Newton six times, intercepted one of his passes, scored a touchdown and nearly scored another. It put that defense in a discussion among the great defenses of the past 30 years.

But the league does not quite know what it sees in the Denver D. The Broncos are an outlier in the staid NFL. They confuse fans and hardcore insiders. With defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, a football lifer who learned from his dad, Bum, the Broncos are conservative radicals, a stick-to-basics defense that bucks the trend of complicated schemes in favor of beautiful simplicity.

The best defense in the NFL plays in plain sight. And nobody can pin it down.

“They say they know what we’re going to do,” Phillips said, “but can they stop us?”

JUST GO PLAY

To borrow a board game tagline, the Broncos’ defense takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. Bum Phillips upset the defensive order in the 1950s when he was coaching small town high school football in East Texas. He developed a way to number defensive lineman to make it easy for kids to know their roles. And he introduced a 3-4 defense — three linemen up front, four linebackers in the middle. His ideas trickled up the ladder.

Paul “Bear” Bryant borrowed Bum’s ideas at Texas A&M in the late ’50s. The NFL, with many teams still using five-man fronts built to stop the run and ignore the pass, soon followed. And the 3-4 defense began to take hold.

Wade Phillips, who also came up through the Texas high school ranks, spun the 3-4 even further. He recognized that the 3-4 can be the most adaptable defense in football. It’s built to let players do what they can do best. If a linebacker is good at coverage, let him cover. If a cornerback can rush the passer, cut him loose. And if a 313-pound nose tackle is quick enough to chase a running back, go for it.

“That’s our philosophy. Just do what the guy can do,” Phillips said. “I can think of a lot of different defenses. But it’s about what the players can do. I’ve always thought that way. When I coached in high school, some guys can’t play very well at all and you have to get by with what they can do. Maybe I got that from my dad. But when I started coaching, it just made sense to me that way.”

But the Broncos can play very well. They can do just about everything. So the simple structure of the 3-4 allows them to be unpredictable. Positions and roles are only words for roster sheets. In theory, the Xs and Os are starting points. In practice, players play everywhere.

“It is simple. That’s Wade’s goal. It allows you to just play,” Broncos cornerback Bradley Roby said. “The best defenses that I’ve seen, and the research that I’ve done, the common thing I get is they’re simple. Everybody knows their job, everybody knows their adjustments and everybody plays together. Wade’s defense, being simple, it allows our athletes to just go play.”

PLAYING TAG TEAM

This moldability allowed the Denver defense to baffle offenses last season. After the Broncos held Cincinnati to 200 yards passing in an overtime victory in late December, the Bengals’ receivers could not agree on what defeated them. The Broncos played a zone defense. No, it was man-to-man. No, they switched at halftime. No one seemed sure.

The truth is between the lines. Bill Green, a legend in Indiana high school basketball, developed a hybrid defense in the late 1960s and ’70s, that starts as a zone and morphs into man-to-man. Instead of defending one-on-one everywhere, a player defends face-to-face in his area, then withdraws if that player crosses a boundary.

Phillips loves this idea. If Broncos cornerback Chris Harris starts on the right side covering A.J. Green, for example, he can follow him around like a jacket until Green wanders too far, then Aqib Talib takes over.

“We play a matchup zone,” Phillips said, not afraid to reveal his playbook. “It looks like man until you pass him off to somebody else. We started it from basketball, way, way back. Everybody was playing 2-1-2 zone and if the ball went to one side, they stayed in place. But then later on they started moving over. We thought, “Well, we can do that. We’ve got five receivers going out, that’s the same concept as basketball.’ ”

The Broncos’ defense is a tag-team. It plays one-on-one until it decides to play two-on-one. This helped them hold opponents to the fewest yards and the fourth fewest points in the NFL last season.

“It’s simple, but it’s not easy,” Roby said. “There’s a lot of pressure. The heat is on. But that pressure is what makes us work at our best. We’re used to being in man coverage when the game is on the line. When I was younger, in college, any time I’d get a man call, I’d be nervous. But not now.

“In the end, it’s a one-on-one league. As a defense, we win those battles the majority of the time. If it’s a left tackle one-on-one with Von Miller, he’s winning that in two seconds. Teams have to catch us slipping, really.”

Even longtime veterans of the game get confused by Denver’s defense. During the Broncos’ first preseason game, at Chicago, former safety and now broadcaster John Lynch commented about how aggressive Denver was blitzing the quarterback. This set off a battle of semantics after the game.

Phillips retorted on Twitter, saying the Broncos never blitzed. They rushed four defenders, sometimes five, but they never blitzed. A rush is not a blitz. When a defense blitzes the quarterback, they are sacrificing numbers in the secondary in order to add an advantage at the line of scrimmage. It’s a gamble.

“The true meaning of a blitz in football is six guys are rushing and five guys are covering five receivers,” Phillips said. “If a backer or a safety gets a sack, they usually say it’s a blitz. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But a dog (rush) is five people. And a four-man rush or a three-man rush is different.”

Under Phillips, the Broncos rarely blitz. They don’t need to. They can send a four-man rush with Williams and defensive end Derek Wolfe and two linebackers, maybe Miller and Brandon Marshall, or two linebackers and two corners, or a corner and a safety with a lineman and a backer. The combinations are endless. It’s all a rush. And the Broncos can just as easily get to the quarterback without gambling on a blitz.

That way, they can keep their numbers advantage in coverage and still pressure the quarterback. Between options A and B, the Broncos choose all of the above.

“It’s simple — get to the ball,” Williams said. “That’s Wade’s No. 1 rule. Get to the ball. At the end of the day, if you get to the ball, you make plays, you do your job.”

Defenses are necessarily reactive. The offense possess the ball. It dictates the terms. It moves first. The Broncos’ defense, though, is impatient. It doesn’t want to wait for the other team to act first. So Denver often makes the first move.

“We’re a play-making defense,” Williams said. “We’re designed to get up the field. We’re not holding up blocks. We’re not two-gap. We’re making plays. I love this defense.”

SIMPLY CRAZY

Phillips, who was out of football and semi-retired in 2014 before he returned to the Broncos, waited a lifetime for a defense to match his philosophy. He was Denver’s defensive coordinator from 1989-92, then head coach in ’93-94. The Broncos reached the Super Bowl once in that span, in 1990, a blowout loss to the 49ers. His defenses were good. But they weren’t great.

This defense is great. The difference now is personnel. The Broncos have one of the best defenders in the league, in Von Miller, and the best cornerbacks, in Roby, Harris and Talib, and they have defensive linemen who can play in pass coverage and linebackers, such as Brandon Marshall, who can cover ground like a sprinter.

And unlike many other teams, the Broncos’ defensive playbook is thin. The scheme is straightforward. Players play. Chase the ball. Get it done. Phillips figured this out over decades. His idea is to turn over the defense to the guys on the field.

“He’s got a lot of swag,” Williams said. “We have very few calls. He says to the defense, ‘Just make plays!’ That’s his mindset. He’ll call the call, then let us play football. It’s a player’s defense.

“Coach Wade is a genius, man. We trust him because he trusts us.”
 

Dxmissile

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,526
I still think Fisher had a lot to do with them playing with that cushion. To be real the defense could have been a lot better but when their t.o.p is more then the offense that hurt their rankings. When you spend over 40 mins on the field playing defense that takes a toll. The offense definitely have to help the defense out by keeping the ball they never did that.
 

RamBall

Legend
Camp Reporter
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
5,734
Name
Dave
IMO we will see an improved D, with WP calling the shots. We all heard, read, saw how complicated GWs D could be, WPs D takes the thinking out of the equation and lets players attack and force the O into mistakes. GWs D playbook looked like a Mad Mike O playbook and required players to think as well as remember a ton of plays. I think it was AO that said they would run the same play from 2 different packages and it would have a different name for each package, although it was the same play. No more over complicating things, just get to the ball and make plays.
 

snackdaddy

Who's your snackdaddy?
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
12,169
Name
Charlie
Sounds simple. I'm optimistic because of Phillips history of creating good defenses in his first year with the team. The Rams defenders might be more familiar with the 4-3 but those guys are talented football players. They will adapt because they're that talented.
 

DaveFan'51

Old-Timer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
18,666
Name
Dave
Sounds simple. I'm optimistic because of Phillips history of creating good defenses in his first year with the team. The Rams defenders might be more familiar with the 4-3 but those guys are talented football players. They will adapt because they're that talented.
A good start will be IF Phillip's gets the Rams back to 50+ sacks a Year, Starting this year!!(y):snicker::shades:
 

Bruce2980

Starter
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
567
A good start will be IF Phillip's gets the Rams back to 50+ sacks a Year, Starting this year!!(y):snicker::shades:
Doesn't sound too difficult when they will be playing press man to man and not giving 10 yard cushions on short yardage downs. Never understood that.
 

majrleaged

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
4,239
I still think Fisher had a lot to do with them playing with that cushion. To be real the defense could have been a lot better but when their t.o.p is more then the offense that hurt their rankings. When you spend over 40 mins on the field playing defense that takes a toll. The offense definitely have to help the defense out by keeping the ball they never did that.
Except when we scored points, like against Tampa or Detroit our defense let us down and allowed way to many points.
 

den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,002
Name
Dennis
Both are well respected Defensive Coordinators, but Wade is considered the best in the game so that in itself will be an upgrade. I do feel Williams will take a bad defense in Cleveland and make it better, but Wade will take a good defense in Los Angeles and make it the best!
 

Zero

Pro Bowler
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,523
I have respect for both DC's.But scheme wise,I prefer the 34 over a 43,
for the same reason Wade does.In a 34 your intentions are hidden more so than a 43
As a offense you know the forth man is coming,most of the time.But what you don't
know is,which player will be the forth man.
When coaching defense I run the 3-5-3(Old Georgia Military defense) for the same reasons.
It gives you a pre-snap advantage over the oline.It forces the offense to adjust after the snap.

I think it gives you an advantage personnel wise as well.There are not as many teams running
the 34,so you're looking at players that a 43 team can't use.Less competition for certain types of
players.

Whatever defense we run,will never reach it's potential,unless we get more sustained drives
out of our offense.A great point @Dxmissile brought up earlier.

Great post CGI
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,559
Well, it's what the plan is (going to a 3-4), but I am still not sure of it.

The best Ram's defenses in the past have been 4-3's, and it's where our strong defensive history is based. We had the Fearsome Foursome, and those that replaced them in the 70's (Fred Dryer, Jack Youngblood, etc..). To say that Williams 4-3 under-performed is like basing your argument on statistics..which you can get to back up almost any argument that you want to make. Yes, we gave up a lot of yards with that freakin' 10 yard cushion, and yes we were prone to big runs when guys got confused or tired, with Williams complex system..AND, like another said, how good will your defensive stats be when the offense suck' s so bad, the defense is on the field for 40 of 60 minutes?

If I was to assign any blame to the 4-3's defense, was William's gambler instinct, in how he interpreted the scheme. I feel a little sad for Jack Youngblood now, because at first his team deserted LA, and then came back 20+ years later, only to have the Rams 4-3 be deserted now. The 4-3 is his linkage to the Rams. So now we have the Fearsome Threesome? Doesn't sound right somehow.
 
Last edited:

Merlin

Damn the torpedoes
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
39,715
Greg Williams' defense is complicated, that's really the difference. He's a great teacher IMO, but for his defense to execute its best it needs smart players and he never had the back end he needed for a top 5 unit. When guys blow assignments in that type of defense it's gonna be a big play.

Wade's an elite DC, a top 3 guy, because while he's also a great teacher he simplifies things for his players. The Rams' current roster is going to play faster under this scheme because they're used to thinking more, particularly on the back end. I don't think the CB position will be good enough to be a top 5 unit, but I do think it is going to be a very good unit.

Nice thing for us this year is everyone is writing the Rams off. It is a rebuild, but depending on how quickly they get Goff rolling it could be a quick one. IMO we're in for a great run and reading that OP just gets me pumped to see these guys finally get a taste for success. Can't wait to attend camp this year man, it's gonna be great.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
Wow...man to man....match-up zones....simple concepts....get to the ball...Son of bum is gonna like a bunch of these players. And some of our guys are gonna prove to be too slow...

Back in the day....teams ALWAYS ran a 5-2....which is basically a 3-4....or, they ran a 4-4....which is also like a 6-2....it's all about the fronts...applying pressure.

, how good will your defensive stats be when the offense suck' s so bad, the defense is on the field for 40 of 60 minutes?
Simply not true. Several of the all time great defenses, had terrible offenses....Get off the field defense. Baltimore. Tampa. Denver in 2015-2016....No excuses. Williams defense was AVERAGE. Stats lie....but they tell the entire story...in numbers...3rd down defense...%%%%....conversions...turnovers...
 

Adi

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
1,808
Name
Adi
Plain and simple , Greg Williams is too predictable and that's why they got torches by good offenses like Atlanta and new Orleans . Every third down Asshole Face knew blitz was coming and he would pick it apart. I know this year they will step up and finally become the elite defense it should be . There will be alot more zones being coveted due to being in a 3-4 also
 

LARAMSinFeb.

Hall of Fame
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
4,685
I liked Williams and I think we were lucky to have him--the only coach that would make me feel okay about losing him is Wade--LA attracted a great coaching staff overall compared to other teams.

But yeah I agree the offense was 23rd in TOP and last in the NFL in 3rd down conversions, which does take a toll on any D, especially if you're losing. Any D can get worn down. I think our number 1 priority should be developing a dominant OL--that would put our D ( I think we have terrific personnel) in the top 3 or 4 imo.
 

tomas

Pro Bowler
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
1,896
Name
tomas
Williams "bend but don't break" approach failed to hold any momentum we gained on offense (insert giggle here)

Fisher-01_e2xet4.gif
 

tempests

Hall of Fame
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
2,900
The best Ram's defenses in the past have been 4-3's, and it's where our strong defensive history is based. We had the Fearsome Foursome, and those that replaced them in the 70's (Fred Dryer, Jack Youngblood, etc..). I feel a little sad for Jack Youngblood now, because at first his team deserted LA, and then came back 20+ years later, only to have the Rams 4-3 be deserted now. The 4-3 is his linkage to the Rams. So now we have the Fearsome Threesome? Doesn't sound right somehow.

I don't know about that. At least Jack put in a couple years in the 3-4. A strong defensive history is a strong defensive history, IMO.

The Steelers have been running a 3-4 defense for 35 years. It's all some Steeler fans know. Yet the Steel Curtain defense of the 70s was a 4-3.

Mean Joe Greene or LC Greenwood never played in a 3-4, but I'd say their linkage is just fine.
 

sjm1582002

Wanted everywhere but welcome nowhere
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
964
Gotta be able to get after the qb and that means attacking the opposing teams weakest pass blockers and forcing them into one on one matchups.

All too often our pass rush faded away towards the end of games last year and with it so did our chances to win (see Miami game).

I'm hoping the move to a 3/4 will allow our best pass rushers (Donald, Easley & Quinn) to constantly tee off against the opposing teams weakest pass blockers.

That will be most enjoyable and entertaining to watch.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,787
Williams defense lost Quinn his best pass rusher. Chris Long started getting hurt and was gone too. Robert Hayes wasn't as effective playing full time as he was part time. The Rams had a remarkable lack of discipline on 2nd and long and even 3rd and long. They let teams get big yardage in both situations that resulted in 1st downs and a big let downs. His blitz mentality and big cushions added to the average at times defense. Teams started to know what was coming

Being a Rams fan the 4-3 seemed like a given priority. I have been wondering for a few years if a 3-4 would make it easier to find personnel. The Rams adding Barwin will make the transition easier. I expect the transition to go very well. The coverage defense may take a little time to jell but will be helped by the front seven. It will be fun to see how it develops.