OL - looking forward to 2016

[junkman]

I'm not throwing in the towel for 2015, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out where 2015 went off the rails. And it's not like everyone and their grandmother didn't see it coming. Offensive line. Offensive line. Offensive line. If the Rams are going to be a ball control pound the rock team, they need to have guys up front that can block. Simple as that. One could reasonably argue that the season was lost in the pre-season when the Rams refused to pony up for more of a plan B. Two rookies starting on the OL, injury riddled RG, un-accomplished LT and C... with only Garrett Reynolds as a veteran backup? What could go wrong?

Using PFF team grades, the Rams are the worst team in the league on offense. No surprise. Leading the Rams in the negative grades are the blocking grades, where the Rams combined run blocking / pass blocking stat of -79.7 is 4th worst in the league behind the Chargers, Lions and Seahawks.

It stands to reason that if the Rams are to improve, the OL would be a good first place to look. The question is, what can be salvaged on the existing OL?

According to PFF stats, the Rams two best offensive players at all positions are... Garrett Reynolds (+5.6) and Rob Havenstein (+4.3), the only two Rams on this dumpster fire of an OL to have positive grades. Pathetic, but let's take it for what it's worth.

It drops off a cliff from there.

Greg Robinson is the worst, sad to say. -27.6 is not only the Rams worst offensive player, but the 2nd worst T grade in the league (74 out of 75).

Tim Barnes isn't much better. His -19.9 is 2nd worst on the Rams. It's also 5th worst in the league (33 of 37) for Cs.

However, Barnes and Robinson are the only two who were day 1 starters in 2015 and played every (most?) snaps. So they at least have that, right?

Jamon Brown, who showed a lot of promise before getting injured is at -15.9, 77th out of 83. That promise lost it's luster pretty quickly.

Rodger Saffold who showed such promise in 2013, -13.7 on only 239 snaps. If you normalize that to a per-snap basis grade, yeah, 2nd worst in the league.

The backups have not fared well (other than Garrett Reynolds).

Andrew Donnal has a -8.1 in only 91 snaps.
Rhaney is -5.6 in only 49 snaps.
Wichmann is -2.9 in only 72 snaps (which is not bad).

OK, so given all that, what's the plan for 2016? We really need at least 8 solid players and a solid LT to make this work.

Reynolds is a Ram through 2016 and has been durable enough though the years. Havenstein was just a rookie and we can hope his injuries were outliers. He was durable in college.

Robinson? Well, he's not going anywhere for a while. But maybe we have to pull the plug on the Robinson LT experiment. Maybe he can put together a string of good games to end 2015 to give us faith that he'll do well in 2016? Is that too much to ask? If not, maybe it's time to face facts, and we slide him back inside. Robinson actually had a positive grade at LG as a rookie, +2.3 in roughly 180 snaps.

Saffold? Geez. Poor performance, injured, and a big cap number. Hate to see him go, but maybe it's time for him to go.

Barnes? We pretty much knew that we were seeing his full upside. He's a warm body holding down the spot and not getting injured. His upside is "career backup forced into starting lineup".

Brown, Donnal, Rhaney, Wichmann, Battle? Geez, what do we have there? Lots of developmental rookies. At least they'll all have some experience heading into their 2nd years. But none of them are exactly clamoring for playing time based on performance so far. But with all the injuries, a lot of folks will have a chance to get back on the field and show they belong.

But if the Rams don't have a LT because Robinson just can't get it together, what then? Free agency? Donald Penn? Cordy Glenn? Gotta do something, right?

Last but not least, we have coach Boudreau. I hate asking the question 'cuz he's been one of the best, but has he lost his touch? He actually ran Robinson's draft day workout so he should have seen something. This year has been an OL failure, and someone should be held accountable.

Thoughts?

 

[DCH]

Our O-line is a dumpster fire, and injuries have removed major parts of the dumpster itself, so the fire has spread.

I can't see giving up on Robinson after two years... hopefully he can get his shit together, and he claims he's started caring about preparation (about fucking time, Greg), so I do think we've got him as our LT in 2016 and 2017, barring injury.

Reynolds will and should be a starting guard for us in 2016, and if the Rams have brain one in their FO, they'll extend him for a couple extra years.

Despite my sig (I lost a bet), Barnes has no business starting on an NFL offensive line. You have to find someone to fill that spot who is more than just an afterthought. If you can tempt Wisniewski, you have to. Otherwise, stop ignoring the position in the draft. Grasu. Richburg. Holmes. Guys taken in the top 4 rounds (but not 1st - sorry Frederick) who stepped in and played well as rookies and who helped stabilize their lines.

Havenstein has been a great find, and I was really, really skeptical of his drafting. But he should be good as our RT for at least 3 more years.

I do think the other guard position will be fine, between Brown, Wichmann, Donnal and Rhaney. One of those guys will play and play well, after a full year in the League and the chance to heal up.

 

[den-the-coach]

 

[blackbart]

My first thought is if Coach Bou is such a great coach these guys must have no talent otherwise, Coach Bou just isn't all that great. Maybe the first move that could have wide ranging positive affects is to bring in another highly touted OLine coach. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the Oline is the root cause of our offensive problems and Bou has had plenty of time and players to work with and has not produced.

 

[TexasRam]

Nice write up and analysis on the oline.

PFF numbers match what I see out there

The only exception is I see Barnes playing better than their numbers suggest, and a lot of team play involving guards has to be considered.

Our only hope is to get havenstein back at RT, kick Reynolds out to LT and move Grob inside.

It's not ideal but may yield better results.

We could be easily 6-4 right now with even slight better pass protection. How much worse could Reynolds do at LT?

What is Saffold's cap hit when we cut him next year?

 

[DR RAM]

Knowing for a fact, that one injury to the OL, can turn a spark into a dumpster fire...please consider the circumstances. Add to the fact that G. Robinson has a highlight reel of bad calls against him, and his grade would change quite a bit, maybe still in the negative, not that I give PFF much credit anyway. Not worried about him, and comparison to the other guy is blasphemy. He'll improve, and will be a Pro Bowl Guard, at least, in his career.

For the rest of the line, factor in age, experience, and absolutely no chance for chemistry, since game 1. Think about that. It's naive to say that this doesn't matter. If anyone thinks this doesn't matter, they have no knowledge of how important, experience, talent, commitment, coaching, and continuity REALLY matter. We have the talent part, but not our number 9 - 12 guys. We can work on most of the other things with this group.

I don't think we will make many changes on the OL next year, in terms of personnel. Maybe, one or two guys will be gone, and maybe a couple change position, but that is all that I think will happen. What I'd like to see happen, is that we change our OL coach. I'd like to see a younger guy, who would be able to connect better to these young kids. I have a lot of respect for Boudreau, but besides the age thing, he has had health problems the last couple of years.

Lastly, I want a full-time, bonafide OC, just like we ended up with G. Williams, and our DC position. Obviously, we need better play at the QB position. We all saw that mobility is needed, at this point.

 

[12intheBox]

We have lost 6 Olineman to injury now.

6!

That's tough to deal with. Even if you plan to have depth - you can't plan that much depth.

Still, it's not like all systems were go before these guys started dropping.

On the bright side, the injuries mean these kids are at least getting some game experience.

 

[LACHAMP46]

With all the injuries...we'll have better depth...I still like the O-Line play...Except for...Barnes...Need a major upgrade, and it's not Rhaney...Draft one....

And, I'd keep drafting Tackles or Guards...just one or 2...every year...

 

[DR RAM]

With all the injuries...we'll have better depth...I still like the O-Line play...Except for...Barnes...Need a major upgrade, and it's not Rhaney...Draft one....

And, I'd keep drafting Tackles or Guards...just one or 2...every year...

And I'm wondering if one of the guys we have, can be converted to Center. But agree, I'd probably draft a Center, and I'm not saying this to denigrate what Barnes has done. I just don't think he's a top notch guy, or can be a top notch guy. Rhaney, will probably be out.

Wichmann, or Brown at Center????

 

[maximus]

Using PFF team grades, the Rams are the worst team in the league on offense. No surprise. Leading the Rams in the negative grades are the blocking grades, where the Rams combined run blocking / pass blocking stat of -79.7 is 4th worst in the league behind the Chargers, Lions and Seahawks.


Greg Robinson is the worst, sad to say. -27.6 is not only the Rams worst offensive player, but the 2nd worst T grade in the league (74 out of 75).

Tim Barnes isn't much better. His -19.9 is 2nd worst on the Rams. It's also 5th worst in the league (33 of 37) for Cs.

However, Barnes and Robinson are the only two who were day 1 starters in 2015 and played every (most?) snaps. So they at least have that, right?

Jamon Brown, who showed a lot of promise before getting injured is at -15.9, 77th out of 83. That promise lost it's luster pretty quickly.

Rodger Saffold who showed such promise in 2013, -13.7 on only 239 snaps. If you normalize that to a per-snap basis grade, yeah, 2nd worst in the league.

Thoughts?

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[DR RAM]

Absolutely disgusting.

Yeah, I hate the PFF grading system too....

 

[maximus]

Yeah, I hate the PFF grading system too....

You can hate them all you want, the numbers look very accurate. This OL sucks. Worst LT in the NFL, one of the worst C's, 2 of the worst guards. They are a big part of the problem. No wonder the offense struggles so much.

 

[junkman]

What is Saffold's cap hit when we cut him next year?

• Chris Long has a cap hit of $14.25M in 2016. We can save all but $2.5M by cutting him.
• Jared Cook has a cap hit of $8.3M. We can save all but $2.6M by cutting him.
• James Laurinaitis has a cap hit of $6.4M. We can save all but $900k by cutting him.
• Saffold has a cap hit of $6M. We can save all but $3M by cutting him.
• Kenny Britt has a cap hit of $4.8M, all of which can be saved by cutting him.

If we could use some of this space to sign a top LT (wasn't Joe Thomas available prior to trade deadline?) in free agency or trade, push Robinson inside to LG (where he's played well), get Havenstein back, Reynolds or Brown at RG... then if Barnes was our worst problem, it would not be so bad.

We have lost 6 Olineman to injury now.

6!

That's tough to deal with. Even if you plan to have depth - you can't plan that much depth.

6?

1. Saffold - shoudla seen that coming but gone for the year in week 5
2. Jamon Brown, rookie starter lost in week 10
3. Donnal, rookie starting in week 11, haven't heard a verdict on him yet
4. Havenstein, rookie starter lost in week 10 for a few games is likely coming back
5. Darrell Williams throwing an undrafted rookie into the fire in week 7, injured in 3 games. This hardly counts. Was he even on the opening day roster?

So I'm only up to 5? Who is the 6th?

So far, we have the one injury prone vet and 4 rookies. And it's not like they were all lost in a few week span. There was time to react, find a vet free agent at the trading deadline or grab some promising 2nd year guy off someone's practice squad, a semi-retired street free agent... SOMEONE

 

[12intheBox]

Ok it's 5. Math was never my thing.

 

[bwdenverram]

Knowing for a fact, that one injury to the OL, can turn a spark into a dumpster fire...please consider the circumstances. Add to the fact that G. Robinson has a highlight reel of bad calls against him, and his grade would change quite a bit, maybe still in the negative, not that I give PFF much credit anyway. Not worried about him, and comparison to the other guy is blasphemy. He'll improve, and will be a Pro Bowl Guard, at least, in his career.

For the rest of the line, factor in age, experience, and absolutely no chance for chemistry, since game 1. Think about that. It's naive to say that this doesn't matter. If anyone thinks this doesn't matter, they have no knowledge of how important, experience, talent, commitment, coaching, and continuity REALLY matter. We have the talent part, but not our number 9 - 12 guys. We can work on most of the other things with this group.

I don't think we will make many changes on the OL next year, in terms of personnel. Maybe, one or two guys will be gone, and maybe a couple change position, but that is all that I think will happen. What I'd like to see happen, is that we change our OL coach. I'd like to see a younger guy, who would be able to connect better to these young kids. I have a lot of respect for Boudreau, but besides the age thing, he has had health problems the last couple of years.

Lastly, I want a full-time, bonafide OC, just like we ended up with G. Williams, and our DC position. Obviously, we need better play at the QB position. We all saw that mobility is needed, at this point.

I agree with you DR. My only concern with GR is watching yesterday and all season he tends to get beat to easily with speed rushers. Twice yesterday his man just blew by him which just killed any chance for that play to have success.. Now is that just coaching, experience or what?
He seems to be just fine when he uses his pure strength and I think stats would prove when we run left we've had good success in general.

I personally would not have drafted all of the guys we did this year on the OL. I think there were better options.
That being said they clearly need time to grow, gel and hopefully stay healthy together.
Saffold is the real head scratcher. All the talent but just can't seem to stay healthy.
I think most of us would of liked to see a little more veteran depth or one more proven veteran starter. Perhaps that will be a focus next off season.
But to your point, with all the injuries and changes it's almost impossible to expect all these young guys not to have growing pains.
It's just unfortunate-that plus poor QB play most likely has ruined our playoff chances.

 

[HitStick]

I want to see Battle at LT and GROB at Guard.

 

[DR RAM]

I want to see Battle at LT and GROB at Guard.

And Battle's first chance to play, and help the team, he missed meetings, and the team bus. OK.

I wouldn't, at all, mind seeing GRob at Guard, but not until we have a better option at LT. I sincerely think that Grob will be fine, by next season.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Twice yesterday his man just blew by him which just killed any chance for that play to have success.

On the sack, the strip sack, the QB has a very basic option...MOVE UP IN THE POCKET...why am I shouting?

But a dazed and confused Keenum didn't....Not sure if this is all on G-Rob, when I see all the other QB's do the same thing..The good ones....even rookies...

The hit that concussed Keenum, appeared to come from the Center guard gap...

Not sure where anyone(OP & PFF) gets G-Rob is the worst this or that, but that dude in San Diego is terrible...G-Rob is TWICE the player as him... but 2 x 0 =_____

 

[HitStick]

And Battle's first chance to play, and help the team, he missed meetings, and the team bus. OK.

I wouldn't, at all, mind seeing GRob at Guard, but not until we have a better option at LT. I sincerely think that Grob will be fine, by next season.

In the meantime any QB will get ruined and Gurley will have to break a tackle just to get positive yards. GROB has been absolutely terrible this season.

 

[DR RAM]

In the meantime any QB will get ruined and Gurley will have to break a tackle just to get positive yards. GROB has been absolutely terrible this season.

Difference in opinion, and I respect this forum, and the players and coaches. Robinson is not a horrible player. He's had some sub par plays. He's had some good plays. He's better now, than he was last year, and he's better than he was from game one. He's learning, even if some don't see it. His hand placement alone, was improved from the previous game. He has to get good positive reps, and really work on his first step on passing downs.