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These are only selected questions and answers. To read the whole chat click the link below.
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http://sports.live.stltoday.com/Event/NFL_chat_with_Jim_Thomas
NFL chat with Jim Thomas: 1/19/16
When do you think the Dispatch will cease coverage of the Rams?
That's something that's still being mulled over at the Post-Dispatch. I can assure you, however, that at least for the near future we will have these weekly chats. Usually on Tuesdays unless there's a conflict. I have a story posted now on Stltoday.com on Todd Gurley being named rookie of the year by the Pro Football Writers. It almost certainly won't be the same volume of Rams coverage, but there will be ongoing Rams coverage for the near future.
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Did Enos pay the $550M relocation fee?
He will. But it is paid over time.
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Could you give your insight on why you think the NFL mislead St. Louis into planning for a stadium that no NFL team or even the NFL wanted?
1.) I don't think the league ever thought St. Louis would get as far along with the project as it did. 2.) The league had to at least give the appearance that it was trying to find a solution in St. Louis, or risk being subject to legal action or taking a PR hit.
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After being told three times (expansion bid included) that my city is not good enough for the NFL, I'm done with them. So sadly, I guess this is goodbye. Again, thanks for everything!
Thanks for the kind words. And I can understand while you feel this way.
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Two questions: 1. I understand that the Ed Dome doesn’t fall into the “top tier” category, but why does everybody call it obsolete? I was at the Detroit game and it looked well taken care of. I loved the old Arena but understood why it had to go. The Ed looks like it’s still in good shape. Question 2: Why does the sports copy desk, in certain contexts, use parenthesis for “St. Louis” Rams. I saw a couple of L.A. references treated the same way.
It certainly isn't obsolete in terms of physical structure. It's in pretty good shape. As for the parenthesis it's something I've used over the years simply for emphasis _ meaning for the Rams while they were in St. Louis.
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So how have the Rams been towards you since the announcement? 21 years of covering them hopefully has earned you some kind of respect with them. Will they give you one on ones if you ask? (I'm sure you have)
I had a long talk with Kevin Demoff in the hotel lobby in Houston late on the night the vote came down. The PR staff remains helpful. But St. Louis no longer is the primary market for the Rams. The majority of their PR efforts will go towards the needs of the LA market. I get that.
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Now that it's all over...at what point did you start figuring they'd leave? Do you think it was Kroenke's plan, from the time he bought his minority share? Do you think Kevin Demoff lied to people? Is there anything that was previously off the record you can tell us? Did the players and coaches know more than we did all along?
Yes,, I think Kroenke had this in mind when he took over controlling interest in the Rams in 2010. Now, he didn't know for sure that he could make it happen at that time, but I'm sure he viewed it as a long-range goal. There were some inconsistencies in things Kevin Demoff said over the final two, three years of all this. He was put in some bad positions by Kroenke, and didn't always handle things well.
And certainly he said some things that were misleading.
As for the players and coaches, with the possible exception of Jeff Fisher, I don't think they knew anything more than we did. As for me, the absolute tipping point came on the Saturday before the meeting when Goodell's report stated that the Rams had met the relocation guidelines. I knew it was over at that point.
My wife drove me to the airport for the Houston meetings that Monday, and she has developed into quite the Rams fan over the years. Any way, when I got out of the car at Lambert I told her, "You know when I return from this trip, St. Louis won't have an NFL team."
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Do you see STL getting another NFL team? Like the Jaguars, I know Khan said he isn't looking into STL, but hard to trust anything coming from the NFL or owners.
I don't see anything happening in the near future in terms of St. Louis getting another NFL team.
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I thought during the process that Richardson and McNair would be strong advocates for St. Louis. Were you surprised at how little they mattered?
Not just McNair and Richardson but the entire LA Opps committee. It is very rare that the league ends up ignoring the recommendation by one of its committees, so yes, I guess you can say I was surprised how little the 5-1 vote mattered. The league wanted very much for the Rams to be in LA, and I think this is a telling indication of how much power resides in commissioner Roger Goodell.
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I hope you continue your live chat, just change it to NFL football, not Rams oriented. What do Cardinals need to do to beat Carolina?
The chats are continuing, at least in the near future. The Cardinals, quite simply, need to control the Carolina running game _ and that includes Cam Newton running _ as much as possible. That could mean using a linebacker to spy Newton. Make the Panthers beat you with their passing game. Now, Newton is capable of doing just that _ beating you with his arm _ but you'd rather take your chances there than letting Stewart, Tolbert, and Newton run all over you all day.
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Do you think that the Rams #1 on field priority would be to find the Todd Gurley of wide receivers in this years draft?
Quarterback, quarterback, quarterback.
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I tried asking this last week but volume must have been high. I understand why STL if anti-NFL right now, it hurts to see the team go and the way in which they were escorted out of town by the NFL. What I don't understand is the feeling of resentment towards attracting another NFL team.
Are we not playing into the hands of the NFL by not putting up a fight to attract another team? Are we not backing up their point by being hurt? I think we should shout from the rafters that the NFL won't get the better of us and we can succeed with a team here.
I hear what you're saying. if it were me, I'd never say never. Sure, you can criticize the league, criticize Kroenke, criticize the process. But don't shut the door. Just like you wouldn't shut the door on, for example, Chrysler coming back to St. Louis, etc.
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Anyway the FAA throws a major wrench in the stadium plan, I was reading that the AZ Cardinals had to move to their current site because the original was tied up with FAA regs.
Yeah, this particular issue hasn't been covered very much w/regards to Inglewood. I flew over the site in August when the Rams were practicing in Oxnard _ and yes _ those planes fly in right over the site. But I guess it's obviously not considered a deal killer.
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Do you see Rams going veteran competition at QB or another rookie with more upside than Mannion early? Is both Foles & Keenum on team next year?
I don't know which way the team is leaning. But if it were me I'd add a veteran QB _ the best one I could acquire via free agency or trade and pair him with Keenum and Mannion.
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My question is, will you be covering the Rams through the off-season with your knowledge of all things Rams? So awkward in that I value your opinions, but don't want to assume that you will continue within your role that we all appreciate so much!
All of this remains under discussion w/editors, but at this point it looks like we will continue covering the team _ to a degree _ over the offseason. Now it will be a different kind of mix. For example, you're probably not going to see an 800-word story when the running backs coach gets hired. But there will still be Rams coverage.
This part of January normally is a slow time for team news anyway, unless you're in the playoffs or searching for a new head coach. As I mentioned right now I'm putting a lot of effort into this Sunday piece with David Hunn.
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Now that the Rams are gone. Is there a possibility that the post would pick up another team? Such as the Chiefs or Colts
We have talked briefly about doing some regional-style coverage of the league, but again nothing has been officially decided.
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Do you think the Rams need to look a kicker since that Greg Z seems to struggle out side of the dome?
I'm sure the Rams will be exploring their options at kicker. Remember also that Zuerlein's contract is up; he's scheduled for unrestricted free agency in March.
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Some quick hits since the Rams owner prefers LA to StL:
1) It's time to rename the PD Rams links to just NFL.
2) As a Broncos fan dating to the Elway 80s, at least Mr. K. won't be able to mismanage my favorite team.
3) Caveat of no human loss or injuries, here is hoping that when the big one hits California the epicenter is Mr. K's new NFL stadium in 2019 before it opens, but after he has paid his $2 Billion in costs.
1.) We're thinking about that. 2.) No, safe to say that rumor is officially dead. 3.) Funny you should mention that. My brother Stephan, a long-time P-D employee now retired, says he has this vision of a strong, but extremely isolated earthquake hitting the Inglewood stadium site about 8 hours before kickoff on opening day in 2019. Nobody gets hurt, because no one is at the stadium. But the stadium is completely destroyed.
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So with stl without a team, theoretically if Bernie doesn't resign his spot, does he become an at large voter, or does the hof kick him out?
This is a very important point, because it could impact several St. Louis Rams not currently in the Hall of Fame, such as Pace, Warner, Holt, Bruce _ and I'll throw London Fletcher in there as well. I'm trying to get some clarification on this. But I believe Bernie Miklasz remains as an at-large voter.
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I don't believe that I ever heard of a team leaving their city when the city accomplished so much, so quickly to try and get a stadium deal together. Do you feel it falls on the feet of Stan and the NFL or to that city leadership that waited so long to act, especially after the arbitration hearing went in favor of the team?
The league likes money, and the league likes itself. This Inglewood stadium will be a monument to money and a monument to the league. I'd give Kroenke and the NFL most of the blame, but the city/region isn't without some blame. In the grand scheme of things, St. Louis came up with a pretty viable stadium plan very quickly, especially compared to other cities. But Kroenke did take advantage of the gap between the arbitration results and the formation of the StL stadium task force.
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I was surprised by the comments Khan made re: STL when you asked him if he would move here. Were you surprised that he seemed to go along with the narrative that STL can no longer support three professional teams?
To a degree. But Khan did it without the name-calling or vitriol Kroenke and the Rams displayed in the relocation application. Whether fair or not, that's the image the city has w/NFL owners. Kroenke and Demoff _ and Grubman _ apparently did a very good job of helping to paint that picture.
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I understand that many devoted fans will turn their backs on Rams & maybe NFL, rightfully so. But for those who can't kick the football habit, we root for the players in the uniforms, not the owners. Many fans are not found of their ownership yet still stay true to the players that they root for every Sunday.
Question is, does St Louis show Rams games for the local fans that remain fans or do they leave it a open market and broadcast many different teams or focus on Colts & Chiefs?
My guess is the local stations (primarily FOX2) begin the year showing Rams games, and if the ratings are there, will continue to do so.
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Is STL really done with the NFL? Can you envision a time over the next decade, where STL is in play for another team? Is expansion off the table with the NFL?
Expansion is off the table at this time in the NFL, if for no other reason than the league does not want to split the ultra-lucrative TV pie into 2 more slices. The only teams on the horizon that might at some time consider St. Louis are Oakland and Jacksonville, and both owners have made it pretty clear they're not interested in moving to StL. However, that could be subject to change over time.
I think when and if London is off the table as a potential home for an NFL team that Jacksonville might start looking at StL. Also, maybe Oakland comes around once Jerry Jones (Dallas) and Bob McNair (Houston) make it clear they don't want a third team in their state (San Antonio), and if Spanos and the Chargers decide to join Kroenke in Los Angeles.
Under that scenario it's hard to imagine Davis coming up w/the money to build a stadium in San Diego. But both of those scenarios are remote, and could take years to unfold.
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What about at. Louis makes Mark Davis not want to consider it?
interesting question. 1. I think he believes some of the concerns about the St. Louis market as pointed out so aggressively by Kroenke & Demoff. 2.) I think he'd like a market where he'd have a chance to be THE team; I believe he has some concerns about being overshadowed by the baseball Cardinals here. . . . But I should add I'm not really sure because he has never elaborated his feelings on the subject.
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St. Louis, you need to stop whining. Don't you realize I did you all a favor? I love St. Lou and my home state of Missouri. You're number 3 on my love list, in order, 1. Money, 2. Family, 3. Missouri. #3 is pretty good. It didn't keep the Rams there (money is more important), but you know what I did? I sacrificed my own name and reputation in St. Louis out of love for you all.
Do you know how much slack I'll take from caddies at the STL Country Clubs from now on? Here's what I did, I made sure that St. Louis was not flirted with by every NFL team looking for a new stadium in their home market. I've been in those owners meetings, you haven't. STL isn't getting a team, but you would be used to get public dollars from other markets. By treating you all poorly over the past few years, I pulled the NFL hurt off like a band aid, rather than let it fester for the next 20 years. You're Welcome. - ESK
I think Stan's priority list probably reads more like this: 1.) Money. 2.) Money, 3.) Money, 4.) Ego, 5..) Did we say money?
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I hate to say this Jim, but I feel so burnt by NFL leadership (if you can call it that), even more so than Kroenke, that I can barely stomach watching the playoffs. I know I'm clearly on the rebound, but how about this...former STL Rams fans root for *gulp* the Packers. The Packers are the only team owned by the fans and represent what 'could' be good about football. I still can't believe I just typed that.
Yeah, I'm sure for some it will be hard to embrace the NFL for a while, or maybe forever.
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Any word on if the city/stadium task force might take legal action against the league for monies spent by the task force?
Nothing certain. I believe they're considering their options.
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So, we all knew Goodell has been on shaky ground lately or so it seems. $40 million a year for all the controversy. Does this LA move hurt him even more or help him based on the vote? Public opinion? Does it even matter at all.
Please. It helps him in the eyes of the owners. It shows that he has never been more powerful and influential.
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Understandable that you and the people in St. Louis are angry and upset, but hoping for an earthquake, even an isolated one is pretty f'd up. Understand that it was a joke, but you should be more professional.
1.) It was my brother's sentiment not mine. 2.) Nobody gets hurt. 3.) Lighten up.
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Did Dean Spanos piss off some of the owners who were backing him?
Don't think so. I just think he lost some supporters when the ballot went secret. And maybe he overestimated that support to begin with.
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Did you get a chance to speak with Kroenke when you were in Houston?
No, not even at the press conference. Because of the logistics of the hotel setup, we decided that David Hunn would cover the press conference on the hotel's third floor since he was writing the main story. And by the way, what a great job Hunn did covering this story, earning the coveted designation as Martin Kilcoyne's St. Louis Media Breakout Star of 2015! (OK, inside joke there.)
Anyway, I stayed on the first floor, flagging down owners as they checked out of the hotel and headed out of town after the vote.
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There was quite a bit of talk about the value of the Rams franchise increasing three fold when the team moved to LA. Does that still hold true if a second team ,moves to Inglewood? It would seem that there is only so much revenue to go around.
Don't know about 3-fold, but I would think that even with two teams the Rams would at least double in value.
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I plan to remain a Rams fan even though they've left STL. I went to every home game last year, driving from Columbia MO. My logic is that I never rooted for the Rams because of the owner, and I didn't quit rooting when I saw that Kroenke wanted to move them. I cheer for the players, not the owner.
With that being said, I hope local TV will still show all the Rams games. Along those same lines...If Kroenke bought the baseball Cardinals, I wouldn't quit cheering for them. I root for the team, not the owner.
I think that's a sane, reasoned approach. But for many, and I think you can understand, this has been very emotional and distressing, and they're done w/the Rams.
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I'm very curious about why Kroenke would not be honest with St L about his plan to relocate, once it became pretty obvious he was pushing for that, say last year or at least 6 months ago. I'm also curious about his need to be so nasty to St L in his bid to relocate. Was all that just because he wasn't sure he would "win" and get to move? If so, his name was mud here after all that, even if he had to stay. Any ideas about that?
Kroenke is pretty ruthless when it comes to making deals. Just ask some of his former business partners. This was never a slam dunk until the very end. I know that Rams' upper management was pretty nervous in early December as the StL task force continued to make progress on the stadium front and Houston Texans owner Robert McNair stated that St. Louis was getting pretty close to having an attractive offer.
I am surprised that Kroenke went so negative in campaigning _ it struck me as almost juvenile, although his message apparently resonated with the league. As for Kroenke being dishonest, I came across another glaring inconsistency last night in doing some work on the Sunday piece I'm working on w/David Hunn on what went wrong w/the St. Louis bid to keep the Rams.
Kroenke told the LA Times last week that he fell in love w/Inglewood as his stadium site in the summer of 2013. Yet at the end of January 2014, on the same day as Goodell's state of the NFL address at the Super Bowl, the Kroenke Organizations released a statement saying it had not yet decided what to do w/that original 60-acre tract of land at Inglewood.
And Goodell during his address cautioned St. Louis against overreacting to the purchase, saying that Kroenke does real estate deals all the time all over the world, and that he was unaware of any stadium plans for Kroenke at Inglewood.
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Do you get the feeling other owners in other mid market NFL cities are more likely to abandon their town and move elsewhere now that the NFL appears to be pursuing the Global market at the expense of those smaller markets?
It would be a concern of mine, if I owned a team in a mid-market or small-market town. Then again, this was almost the perfect storm for Kroenke and the league. The out clause in the lease (w/respect to the first-tier language), an owner w/Kroenke's kind of money, and the opportunity to build a showcase stadium in the LA market.
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I can't seem to understand the math in all of this. I know the prevailing thought is that the Rams will triple in value, but my question is..based on what? The examples everyone uses are MLB and NBA teams. But, we all know the reason they have such varying value is the TV contracts and merchandising.
The NFL shares all of that equally. What would it take in PSLs, Boxes, and Naming rights to recoup $2.6 million private investment in a stadium + relocation fees. It just doesn't seem to add up to triple the value with so much liability and so little to gain.
See: LA Clippers. (And how much they sold for.)
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Did you catch Stan Kroenke saying he is going to bring Superbowls to LA? HE didn't mean the team he meant his BUILDING is going to get Superbowls right?
Yes.
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Jim, don’t know if you read the recent Washington Post article on Kroenke, but here is my favorite section: “The late Bryan Burwell, of the Post-Dispatch, evoked terms such as ‘diabolical’ and ‘Machiavellian’ in 2010 when describing Kroenke’s machinations. ‘His actions reek of cold-blooded duplicity,’ Burwell wrote. ‘How nervous should that make us if he actually ends up assuming full control of St. Louis’ NFL franchise?’” Bryan was spot-on, wasn’t he?
On a side note, Jim, I’m looking forward to the no-holds-barred book you will write on the Rams relocation, and how Kroenke and Demoff lied to you and the city of St. Louis for years.
I've wondered on more than one occasion what my dear friend Bryan Burwell would have written about this last year of the Rams in St. Louis, and the nature of their departure from St. Louis.
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Jim, who "owns" Rams Park and all the facilities at Earth City? Do the Rams own it or whom? And now that they are no longer St. Louis Rams, if they do not own it, is there a lease or something that allows them to still use the facilities? If I walked across the street to a competitor, the office would change locks so fast it would make your head spin!
That being said, when do you expect moving vans to congregate?
It's owned by the stadium authority. Not owned by the Rams. I think Rams have to be out of the building by April 1.
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How many Missouri and Southern Illinois TIF votes go The Kroenke Group's way over the next decade plus?
Yeah, that is interesting, isn't it?
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How much did the Ferguson riots and perceived increase in crime enter into the NFL's decision? In the end, I think the money would've always won, but these events could not have helped the city's image.
No, and the Rams did very little to prevent that image from festering. I know of one Rams executive who showed up at the league meetings in Chicago in August (at the time of disturbances over the 1-year anniversary of Ferguson) and greeted a national writer w/the following: "Another day, another riot in St. Louis."
I believe Gov. Nixon made the case with Goodell that after the events in Ferguson that also losing an NFL team would be a huge blow to the St. Louis region. But no sympathy vote here _ as was the case w/New Orleans and Katrina (and the planned move by the Saints, I believe, to San Antonio).
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How long is the honeymoon in Los Angeles? LA loves stars. I bet they'l be excited when they hear this at the home opener: "Starting at Quarterback, Case Keeeeeenummmm."
Obviously, the Rams get a double-bump here. For the first couple of years, there will just be the joy of getting football back. Assuming the team continues to have losing seasons, I would think just about the time the newness wears off, the Rams move into their fabulous new stadium. So I'm thinking they're in pretty good shape for 5-plus years.
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Bottom line is the NFL, not just Stan K, wanted to milk every dime they could out of this franchise and that is best done in LA. Stan couldn't have done this alone. If you support another team you are still supporting the league that encouraged this happen. I don't get all the people that hate on Stan K but then want to go root for another team. That team's owner voted for your team to move. Might as well just root for the Rams.
Well, I think a subplot to all this is by entertaining San Diego Oakland, and St. Louis as possible teams moving, the league was able to jack up the relocation price as well. I guess it's an individual choice on whether to continue following a team or not. I would think that merely watching a team's game on television or reading about them in a newspaper or online doesn't really put money into an owner's or the leagues pockets.
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Will having the team in LA be a benefit when it comes to free agency?
I would think it will for the most part. Young players, single players, I think would to a large degree be excited about the possibility of playing there. But I don't think it would universal. For example, former Rams center Andy McCollum said he couldn't see living in LA, said it's just not his type of town.
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If the Rams don't improve the product on the field. do you think there will be empty seats before the new stadium is built? Maybe the NFL would have been smarter to use the Inglewood stadium as a special events center. Have each team play a game there every year, host SuperBowls, the offices ect. With revenue sharing I'm not sure attendance income would be that much different and Stan would still get the income from the perimeter stuff.
Yeah, I think there will be empty seats in the Coliseum at some point before the new stadium opens unless the team is wildly successful.
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http://sports.live.stltoday.com/Event/NFL_chat_with_Jim_Thomas
NFL chat with Jim Thomas: 1/19/16
When do you think the Dispatch will cease coverage of the Rams?
That's something that's still being mulled over at the Post-Dispatch. I can assure you, however, that at least for the near future we will have these weekly chats. Usually on Tuesdays unless there's a conflict. I have a story posted now on Stltoday.com on Todd Gurley being named rookie of the year by the Pro Football Writers. It almost certainly won't be the same volume of Rams coverage, but there will be ongoing Rams coverage for the near future.
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Did Enos pay the $550M relocation fee?
He will. But it is paid over time.
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Could you give your insight on why you think the NFL mislead St. Louis into planning for a stadium that no NFL team or even the NFL wanted?
1.) I don't think the league ever thought St. Louis would get as far along with the project as it did. 2.) The league had to at least give the appearance that it was trying to find a solution in St. Louis, or risk being subject to legal action or taking a PR hit.
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After being told three times (expansion bid included) that my city is not good enough for the NFL, I'm done with them. So sadly, I guess this is goodbye. Again, thanks for everything!
Thanks for the kind words. And I can understand while you feel this way.
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Two questions: 1. I understand that the Ed Dome doesn’t fall into the “top tier” category, but why does everybody call it obsolete? I was at the Detroit game and it looked well taken care of. I loved the old Arena but understood why it had to go. The Ed looks like it’s still in good shape. Question 2: Why does the sports copy desk, in certain contexts, use parenthesis for “St. Louis” Rams. I saw a couple of L.A. references treated the same way.
It certainly isn't obsolete in terms of physical structure. It's in pretty good shape. As for the parenthesis it's something I've used over the years simply for emphasis _ meaning for the Rams while they were in St. Louis.
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So how have the Rams been towards you since the announcement? 21 years of covering them hopefully has earned you some kind of respect with them. Will they give you one on ones if you ask? (I'm sure you have)
I had a long talk with Kevin Demoff in the hotel lobby in Houston late on the night the vote came down. The PR staff remains helpful. But St. Louis no longer is the primary market for the Rams. The majority of their PR efforts will go towards the needs of the LA market. I get that.
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Now that it's all over...at what point did you start figuring they'd leave? Do you think it was Kroenke's plan, from the time he bought his minority share? Do you think Kevin Demoff lied to people? Is there anything that was previously off the record you can tell us? Did the players and coaches know more than we did all along?
Yes,, I think Kroenke had this in mind when he took over controlling interest in the Rams in 2010. Now, he didn't know for sure that he could make it happen at that time, but I'm sure he viewed it as a long-range goal. There were some inconsistencies in things Kevin Demoff said over the final two, three years of all this. He was put in some bad positions by Kroenke, and didn't always handle things well.
And certainly he said some things that were misleading.
As for the players and coaches, with the possible exception of Jeff Fisher, I don't think they knew anything more than we did. As for me, the absolute tipping point came on the Saturday before the meeting when Goodell's report stated that the Rams had met the relocation guidelines. I knew it was over at that point.
My wife drove me to the airport for the Houston meetings that Monday, and she has developed into quite the Rams fan over the years. Any way, when I got out of the car at Lambert I told her, "You know when I return from this trip, St. Louis won't have an NFL team."
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Do you see STL getting another NFL team? Like the Jaguars, I know Khan said he isn't looking into STL, but hard to trust anything coming from the NFL or owners.
I don't see anything happening in the near future in terms of St. Louis getting another NFL team.
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I thought during the process that Richardson and McNair would be strong advocates for St. Louis. Were you surprised at how little they mattered?
Not just McNair and Richardson but the entire LA Opps committee. It is very rare that the league ends up ignoring the recommendation by one of its committees, so yes, I guess you can say I was surprised how little the 5-1 vote mattered. The league wanted very much for the Rams to be in LA, and I think this is a telling indication of how much power resides in commissioner Roger Goodell.
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I hope you continue your live chat, just change it to NFL football, not Rams oriented. What do Cardinals need to do to beat Carolina?
The chats are continuing, at least in the near future. The Cardinals, quite simply, need to control the Carolina running game _ and that includes Cam Newton running _ as much as possible. That could mean using a linebacker to spy Newton. Make the Panthers beat you with their passing game. Now, Newton is capable of doing just that _ beating you with his arm _ but you'd rather take your chances there than letting Stewart, Tolbert, and Newton run all over you all day.
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Do you think that the Rams #1 on field priority would be to find the Todd Gurley of wide receivers in this years draft?
Quarterback, quarterback, quarterback.
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I tried asking this last week but volume must have been high. I understand why STL if anti-NFL right now, it hurts to see the team go and the way in which they were escorted out of town by the NFL. What I don't understand is the feeling of resentment towards attracting another NFL team.
Are we not playing into the hands of the NFL by not putting up a fight to attract another team? Are we not backing up their point by being hurt? I think we should shout from the rafters that the NFL won't get the better of us and we can succeed with a team here.
I hear what you're saying. if it were me, I'd never say never. Sure, you can criticize the league, criticize Kroenke, criticize the process. But don't shut the door. Just like you wouldn't shut the door on, for example, Chrysler coming back to St. Louis, etc.
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Anyway the FAA throws a major wrench in the stadium plan, I was reading that the AZ Cardinals had to move to their current site because the original was tied up with FAA regs.
Yeah, this particular issue hasn't been covered very much w/regards to Inglewood. I flew over the site in August when the Rams were practicing in Oxnard _ and yes _ those planes fly in right over the site. But I guess it's obviously not considered a deal killer.
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Do you see Rams going veteran competition at QB or another rookie with more upside than Mannion early? Is both Foles & Keenum on team next year?
I don't know which way the team is leaning. But if it were me I'd add a veteran QB _ the best one I could acquire via free agency or trade and pair him with Keenum and Mannion.
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My question is, will you be covering the Rams through the off-season with your knowledge of all things Rams? So awkward in that I value your opinions, but don't want to assume that you will continue within your role that we all appreciate so much!
All of this remains under discussion w/editors, but at this point it looks like we will continue covering the team _ to a degree _ over the offseason. Now it will be a different kind of mix. For example, you're probably not going to see an 800-word story when the running backs coach gets hired. But there will still be Rams coverage.
This part of January normally is a slow time for team news anyway, unless you're in the playoffs or searching for a new head coach. As I mentioned right now I'm putting a lot of effort into this Sunday piece with David Hunn.
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Now that the Rams are gone. Is there a possibility that the post would pick up another team? Such as the Chiefs or Colts
We have talked briefly about doing some regional-style coverage of the league, but again nothing has been officially decided.
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Do you think the Rams need to look a kicker since that Greg Z seems to struggle out side of the dome?
I'm sure the Rams will be exploring their options at kicker. Remember also that Zuerlein's contract is up; he's scheduled for unrestricted free agency in March.
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Some quick hits since the Rams owner prefers LA to StL:
1) It's time to rename the PD Rams links to just NFL.
2) As a Broncos fan dating to the Elway 80s, at least Mr. K. won't be able to mismanage my favorite team.
3) Caveat of no human loss or injuries, here is hoping that when the big one hits California the epicenter is Mr. K's new NFL stadium in 2019 before it opens, but after he has paid his $2 Billion in costs.
1.) We're thinking about that. 2.) No, safe to say that rumor is officially dead. 3.) Funny you should mention that. My brother Stephan, a long-time P-D employee now retired, says he has this vision of a strong, but extremely isolated earthquake hitting the Inglewood stadium site about 8 hours before kickoff on opening day in 2019. Nobody gets hurt, because no one is at the stadium. But the stadium is completely destroyed.
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So with stl without a team, theoretically if Bernie doesn't resign his spot, does he become an at large voter, or does the hof kick him out?
This is a very important point, because it could impact several St. Louis Rams not currently in the Hall of Fame, such as Pace, Warner, Holt, Bruce _ and I'll throw London Fletcher in there as well. I'm trying to get some clarification on this. But I believe Bernie Miklasz remains as an at-large voter.
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I don't believe that I ever heard of a team leaving their city when the city accomplished so much, so quickly to try and get a stadium deal together. Do you feel it falls on the feet of Stan and the NFL or to that city leadership that waited so long to act, especially after the arbitration hearing went in favor of the team?
The league likes money, and the league likes itself. This Inglewood stadium will be a monument to money and a monument to the league. I'd give Kroenke and the NFL most of the blame, but the city/region isn't without some blame. In the grand scheme of things, St. Louis came up with a pretty viable stadium plan very quickly, especially compared to other cities. But Kroenke did take advantage of the gap between the arbitration results and the formation of the StL stadium task force.
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I was surprised by the comments Khan made re: STL when you asked him if he would move here. Were you surprised that he seemed to go along with the narrative that STL can no longer support three professional teams?
To a degree. But Khan did it without the name-calling or vitriol Kroenke and the Rams displayed in the relocation application. Whether fair or not, that's the image the city has w/NFL owners. Kroenke and Demoff _ and Grubman _ apparently did a very good job of helping to paint that picture.
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I understand that many devoted fans will turn their backs on Rams & maybe NFL, rightfully so. But for those who can't kick the football habit, we root for the players in the uniforms, not the owners. Many fans are not found of their ownership yet still stay true to the players that they root for every Sunday.
Question is, does St Louis show Rams games for the local fans that remain fans or do they leave it a open market and broadcast many different teams or focus on Colts & Chiefs?
My guess is the local stations (primarily FOX2) begin the year showing Rams games, and if the ratings are there, will continue to do so.
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Is STL really done with the NFL? Can you envision a time over the next decade, where STL is in play for another team? Is expansion off the table with the NFL?
Expansion is off the table at this time in the NFL, if for no other reason than the league does not want to split the ultra-lucrative TV pie into 2 more slices. The only teams on the horizon that might at some time consider St. Louis are Oakland and Jacksonville, and both owners have made it pretty clear they're not interested in moving to StL. However, that could be subject to change over time.
I think when and if London is off the table as a potential home for an NFL team that Jacksonville might start looking at StL. Also, maybe Oakland comes around once Jerry Jones (Dallas) and Bob McNair (Houston) make it clear they don't want a third team in their state (San Antonio), and if Spanos and the Chargers decide to join Kroenke in Los Angeles.
Under that scenario it's hard to imagine Davis coming up w/the money to build a stadium in San Diego. But both of those scenarios are remote, and could take years to unfold.
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What about at. Louis makes Mark Davis not want to consider it?
interesting question. 1. I think he believes some of the concerns about the St. Louis market as pointed out so aggressively by Kroenke & Demoff. 2.) I think he'd like a market where he'd have a chance to be THE team; I believe he has some concerns about being overshadowed by the baseball Cardinals here. . . . But I should add I'm not really sure because he has never elaborated his feelings on the subject.
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St. Louis, you need to stop whining. Don't you realize I did you all a favor? I love St. Lou and my home state of Missouri. You're number 3 on my love list, in order, 1. Money, 2. Family, 3. Missouri. #3 is pretty good. It didn't keep the Rams there (money is more important), but you know what I did? I sacrificed my own name and reputation in St. Louis out of love for you all.
Do you know how much slack I'll take from caddies at the STL Country Clubs from now on? Here's what I did, I made sure that St. Louis was not flirted with by every NFL team looking for a new stadium in their home market. I've been in those owners meetings, you haven't. STL isn't getting a team, but you would be used to get public dollars from other markets. By treating you all poorly over the past few years, I pulled the NFL hurt off like a band aid, rather than let it fester for the next 20 years. You're Welcome. - ESK
I think Stan's priority list probably reads more like this: 1.) Money. 2.) Money, 3.) Money, 4.) Ego, 5..) Did we say money?
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I hate to say this Jim, but I feel so burnt by NFL leadership (if you can call it that), even more so than Kroenke, that I can barely stomach watching the playoffs. I know I'm clearly on the rebound, but how about this...former STL Rams fans root for *gulp* the Packers. The Packers are the only team owned by the fans and represent what 'could' be good about football. I still can't believe I just typed that.
Yeah, I'm sure for some it will be hard to embrace the NFL for a while, or maybe forever.
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Any word on if the city/stadium task force might take legal action against the league for monies spent by the task force?
Nothing certain. I believe they're considering their options.
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So, we all knew Goodell has been on shaky ground lately or so it seems. $40 million a year for all the controversy. Does this LA move hurt him even more or help him based on the vote? Public opinion? Does it even matter at all.
Please. It helps him in the eyes of the owners. It shows that he has never been more powerful and influential.
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Understandable that you and the people in St. Louis are angry and upset, but hoping for an earthquake, even an isolated one is pretty f'd up. Understand that it was a joke, but you should be more professional.
1.) It was my brother's sentiment not mine. 2.) Nobody gets hurt. 3.) Lighten up.
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Did Dean Spanos piss off some of the owners who were backing him?
Don't think so. I just think he lost some supporters when the ballot went secret. And maybe he overestimated that support to begin with.
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Did you get a chance to speak with Kroenke when you were in Houston?
No, not even at the press conference. Because of the logistics of the hotel setup, we decided that David Hunn would cover the press conference on the hotel's third floor since he was writing the main story. And by the way, what a great job Hunn did covering this story, earning the coveted designation as Martin Kilcoyne's St. Louis Media Breakout Star of 2015! (OK, inside joke there.)
Anyway, I stayed on the first floor, flagging down owners as they checked out of the hotel and headed out of town after the vote.
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There was quite a bit of talk about the value of the Rams franchise increasing three fold when the team moved to LA. Does that still hold true if a second team ,moves to Inglewood? It would seem that there is only so much revenue to go around.
Don't know about 3-fold, but I would think that even with two teams the Rams would at least double in value.
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I plan to remain a Rams fan even though they've left STL. I went to every home game last year, driving from Columbia MO. My logic is that I never rooted for the Rams because of the owner, and I didn't quit rooting when I saw that Kroenke wanted to move them. I cheer for the players, not the owner.
With that being said, I hope local TV will still show all the Rams games. Along those same lines...If Kroenke bought the baseball Cardinals, I wouldn't quit cheering for them. I root for the team, not the owner.
I think that's a sane, reasoned approach. But for many, and I think you can understand, this has been very emotional and distressing, and they're done w/the Rams.
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I'm very curious about why Kroenke would not be honest with St L about his plan to relocate, once it became pretty obvious he was pushing for that, say last year or at least 6 months ago. I'm also curious about his need to be so nasty to St L in his bid to relocate. Was all that just because he wasn't sure he would "win" and get to move? If so, his name was mud here after all that, even if he had to stay. Any ideas about that?
Kroenke is pretty ruthless when it comes to making deals. Just ask some of his former business partners. This was never a slam dunk until the very end. I know that Rams' upper management was pretty nervous in early December as the StL task force continued to make progress on the stadium front and Houston Texans owner Robert McNair stated that St. Louis was getting pretty close to having an attractive offer.
I am surprised that Kroenke went so negative in campaigning _ it struck me as almost juvenile, although his message apparently resonated with the league. As for Kroenke being dishonest, I came across another glaring inconsistency last night in doing some work on the Sunday piece I'm working on w/David Hunn on what went wrong w/the St. Louis bid to keep the Rams.
Kroenke told the LA Times last week that he fell in love w/Inglewood as his stadium site in the summer of 2013. Yet at the end of January 2014, on the same day as Goodell's state of the NFL address at the Super Bowl, the Kroenke Organizations released a statement saying it had not yet decided what to do w/that original 60-acre tract of land at Inglewood.
And Goodell during his address cautioned St. Louis against overreacting to the purchase, saying that Kroenke does real estate deals all the time all over the world, and that he was unaware of any stadium plans for Kroenke at Inglewood.
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Do you get the feeling other owners in other mid market NFL cities are more likely to abandon their town and move elsewhere now that the NFL appears to be pursuing the Global market at the expense of those smaller markets?
It would be a concern of mine, if I owned a team in a mid-market or small-market town. Then again, this was almost the perfect storm for Kroenke and the league. The out clause in the lease (w/respect to the first-tier language), an owner w/Kroenke's kind of money, and the opportunity to build a showcase stadium in the LA market.
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I can't seem to understand the math in all of this. I know the prevailing thought is that the Rams will triple in value, but my question is..based on what? The examples everyone uses are MLB and NBA teams. But, we all know the reason they have such varying value is the TV contracts and merchandising.
The NFL shares all of that equally. What would it take in PSLs, Boxes, and Naming rights to recoup $2.6 million private investment in a stadium + relocation fees. It just doesn't seem to add up to triple the value with so much liability and so little to gain.
See: LA Clippers. (And how much they sold for.)
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Did you catch Stan Kroenke saying he is going to bring Superbowls to LA? HE didn't mean the team he meant his BUILDING is going to get Superbowls right?
Yes.
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Jim, don’t know if you read the recent Washington Post article on Kroenke, but here is my favorite section: “The late Bryan Burwell, of the Post-Dispatch, evoked terms such as ‘diabolical’ and ‘Machiavellian’ in 2010 when describing Kroenke’s machinations. ‘His actions reek of cold-blooded duplicity,’ Burwell wrote. ‘How nervous should that make us if he actually ends up assuming full control of St. Louis’ NFL franchise?’” Bryan was spot-on, wasn’t he?
On a side note, Jim, I’m looking forward to the no-holds-barred book you will write on the Rams relocation, and how Kroenke and Demoff lied to you and the city of St. Louis for years.
I've wondered on more than one occasion what my dear friend Bryan Burwell would have written about this last year of the Rams in St. Louis, and the nature of their departure from St. Louis.
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Jim, who "owns" Rams Park and all the facilities at Earth City? Do the Rams own it or whom? And now that they are no longer St. Louis Rams, if they do not own it, is there a lease or something that allows them to still use the facilities? If I walked across the street to a competitor, the office would change locks so fast it would make your head spin!
That being said, when do you expect moving vans to congregate?
It's owned by the stadium authority. Not owned by the Rams. I think Rams have to be out of the building by April 1.
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How many Missouri and Southern Illinois TIF votes go The Kroenke Group's way over the next decade plus?
Yeah, that is interesting, isn't it?
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How much did the Ferguson riots and perceived increase in crime enter into the NFL's decision? In the end, I think the money would've always won, but these events could not have helped the city's image.
No, and the Rams did very little to prevent that image from festering. I know of one Rams executive who showed up at the league meetings in Chicago in August (at the time of disturbances over the 1-year anniversary of Ferguson) and greeted a national writer w/the following: "Another day, another riot in St. Louis."
I believe Gov. Nixon made the case with Goodell that after the events in Ferguson that also losing an NFL team would be a huge blow to the St. Louis region. But no sympathy vote here _ as was the case w/New Orleans and Katrina (and the planned move by the Saints, I believe, to San Antonio).
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How long is the honeymoon in Los Angeles? LA loves stars. I bet they'l be excited when they hear this at the home opener: "Starting at Quarterback, Case Keeeeeenummmm."
Obviously, the Rams get a double-bump here. For the first couple of years, there will just be the joy of getting football back. Assuming the team continues to have losing seasons, I would think just about the time the newness wears off, the Rams move into their fabulous new stadium. So I'm thinking they're in pretty good shape for 5-plus years.
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Bottom line is the NFL, not just Stan K, wanted to milk every dime they could out of this franchise and that is best done in LA. Stan couldn't have done this alone. If you support another team you are still supporting the league that encouraged this happen. I don't get all the people that hate on Stan K but then want to go root for another team. That team's owner voted for your team to move. Might as well just root for the Rams.
Well, I think a subplot to all this is by entertaining San Diego Oakland, and St. Louis as possible teams moving, the league was able to jack up the relocation price as well. I guess it's an individual choice on whether to continue following a team or not. I would think that merely watching a team's game on television or reading about them in a newspaper or online doesn't really put money into an owner's or the leagues pockets.
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Will having the team in LA be a benefit when it comes to free agency?
I would think it will for the most part. Young players, single players, I think would to a large degree be excited about the possibility of playing there. But I don't think it would universal. For example, former Rams center Andy McCollum said he couldn't see living in LA, said it's just not his type of town.
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If the Rams don't improve the product on the field. do you think there will be empty seats before the new stadium is built? Maybe the NFL would have been smarter to use the Inglewood stadium as a special events center. Have each team play a game there every year, host SuperBowls, the offices ect. With revenue sharing I'm not sure attendance income would be that much different and Stan would still get the income from the perimeter stuff.
Yeah, I think there will be empty seats in the Coliseum at some point before the new stadium opens unless the team is wildly successful.
