MY TAKE ON HOW THIS FRANCHISE GOT TO CURRENT STATE

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428

UDFA
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...some recent critical mistakes and a recommendation. Sorry for the length:

As they approached 2007-2008, the Rams were at a cross-roads. An aging, declining team rampant with back loaded contracts and no real depth. Strip it down and take your lumps? Absolutely. Enter Demoff. Absolute coup to land him. Very bright young man with an excellent future.

The problem was that stripping it down meant losing badly in the three most historically expensive draft classes. That upped the ante for those draft classes at least 10 fold. Blow one top 2 pick in that era and you're in trouble. Blow more than one and you're dead meat. Merely ending up with a third (irrespective of how you did with the first two) and you're probably in a dangerzone with a slim chance of immediate recovery.

The unfortunate reality of having those three toxic contracts was that the club was in trouble even if they hit on all three guys. I posted a lot on this at the time of each of those picks. They were the substantial equivalent of paying the three players franchise player money...every season....for the duration of their multi-year contracts....irrespective of how they turn out as players. As I said before, a player busts and you're hurting. Two busts and you're dead for years. Hit a single or a double and then a bust and you're dead. And here's the sad part- hit on all three and you're still in trouble in terms of franchise building. A hit would unlock full value escalators, and when it comes time to extend the player the last thing you can do is ask him to take a pay cut. So a very good player with one of those contracts becomes a top 3 highest paid in league player...and you can't do that with all three guys in a salary cap era. Ariz experienced this exact problem with Fitzgerald and had to let Bouldin, Dansby & co. walk.

So what do you do then? It's 2008. Belichick, Brady and McDaniels just blew the top off the league with a brand new innovative offense, only to lose to Spags and the Giants. You are fortunate enough to be able to land Spags as a enter the draft season with the #2 pick. Jake Long isn't an option and you're wide open in terms of needs. I submit that this was the most critical juncture in recent franchise history and I think they blew it. As much as I like Chris Long, and as well as he played, it was very easy to see that he's be a LDE and didn't have the skill set to ever live up to that contract. You simply cannot take a player with LDE upside #2 overall.

Not a great draft class by any stretch of the imagination, but you had a squeaky clean franchise QB staring right at you in Matt Ryan. At the time, everyone in the building and everyone around the league knew that Bulger was done. They couldn't release him in 2008 but they sure as :!: could have drafted Ryan, let him sit for 6-8 games (or the whole year for that matter) and then take over and release Bulger the following year. IMO franchise malpractice was committed in 2008 when they committed to Bulger instead of turning the page, and in the process passed on a franchise QB, and then kept the pick, and used it on a player with limited upside incapable of ever living up to the contract. One draft pick represents the culmination of several poor, damaging decisions at a critical time for the franchise.

Enter 2009. Offense still trending upwards across the league. Roster still paper thin and of course the team is once again drafting in the top 2. You figure out that Chris Long can't play RDE (duh), so you move him to base end. With the draft coming up you still have needs all over. IMO Count II of franchise malpractice occurred when they drafted J. Smith with the second toxic contract. At this point I can't really comment on what 428 would have done because 428 (on record) would have drafted Matt Ryan , and then history would have been so substantially altered that you can no longer take things year by year. However, with heightened importance on the second toxic contract pick, the franchise swung and missed badly with J. Smith. He had upside, but setting aside the concussion problem, the kid could never really get the lead out of his legs. Again, this decision alone is enough to cause severe damage to the franchise. Coupled with the prior year's debacle, and the "rebuild" was now well on its way to failing.

Enter 2010. Passing offenses still trending upwards rapidly. By now even Spags mentor and diehard ball control disciple Tom Coughlin is watching from the sidelines as his OC and QB sling the ball around nearly 70% of the time. The Rams had another top 2 pick. I find no fault whatsoever with the Bradford decision. In fact, I think the front office did a masterful job in making sure that the player ended up a Ram. At this point, despite the two strikes, the thought is that the franchise may have bottomed out and be ready to start to improve. The roster was still paper thin, but they did add a young tackle short on size and power and athleticism but long on effort and decent feet. A smartly designed, nurturing offense, improved defensive play and a soft schedule leads to a 7-9 season.

Enter 2011. Backed by even more rules to protect QB and receivers, the league continues to witness unparallelled passing numbers. Ownership solidifies under Kroenke. Shurmur leaves and its clearly time to take the band aid off and open up this offense to hopefully join the ranks of the elite franchises that are shredding defenses week in week out and winning superbowls. The Rams complete an absolute coup and land McDaniels, uniting the two rising coordinators from that spectacular Patriots Giants superbowl. Despite the two earlier strikes, the arrow is finally pointing up rapidly for the franchise.

Enter the lockout. I am not going to go through the intricacies of the issues that are created when attempting to install a new offense in a lockout shortnened off season....nor am I going to go through the problems the players had in executing the system, or the effects that the injuries have had on a still paper thin roster (especially to the offensive line, secondary and QB position)...this post is already long enough. Let's just say that this season was a miserable clusterf combination of terrible developments. Add it all up, right or wrong, and I gotta call it strike 3. Time for overhaul.

I gotta say....I like the guy, but its time for Devaney to be replaced. The Rams need new direction, especially heading into this critical draft, they need experience in allocation of franchise assets, they need to avoid busts and bunt singles with expensive picks, they need more success in the mid to late rounds, they need an occasional aggressive, intelligent acquisition, they need to move up and down the draft board to acquire more picks and move into talent clusters, they need skillful acquisition of free agent talent as soon as they've got the room in the pro forma....essentially they need what Devaney cannot deliver. It's time for him to go. The snail like pace of the acquisition of talent and depth cannot continue any longer. Sure everyone's jobs have been made tougher by the cap...but the first two strikes were voluntary, and the pace with with talented has been added even under those parameters is unacceptable. Add it up and you're looking at failure.

Time to hire somebody who can get this team more good players. And by the way....Spags and McDaniels didn't forget how to coach. That superbowl was still one of the best games I've ever watched. The train appears to be a coming strong, and not stopping one way or another, but you hire a czar and you might be able to keep these coaches in some capacity while finding a GM who can get you better players. At this point, that seems highly unlikely.
 

Ram Quixote

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Tim
I must point out a couple of inaccuracies in your timeline.
428 said:
So what do you do then? It's 2008. Belichick, Brady and McDaniels just blew the top off the league with a brand new innovative offense, only to lose to Spags and the Giants. You are fortunate enough to be able to land Spags as a enter the draft season with the #2 pick. Jake Long isn't an option and you're wide open in terms of needs. I submit that this was the most critical juncture in recent franchise history and I think they blew it.
First, Spags wasn't hired until 2009. Devaney was hired to run the Draft of 2008 in January, but the evil triad of Shaw, Zygmunt and Linehan were in charge. Linehan was trying to salvage his tenure, and a rookie QB wouldn't help him. JS & JZ weren't about to add a franchise QB in the Draft after just paying Bulger to be one the year before. Devaney was named GM at the end of that year.
428 said:
As they approached 2007-2008, the Rams were at a cross-roads. An aging, declining team rampant with back loaded contracts and no real depth. Strip it down and take your lumps? Absolutely. Enter Demoff. Absolute coup to land him. Very bright young man with an excellent future.
The stripping you're talking about happened in 2009, when Demoff was hired. The stripping commenced in March. 2007 & 08 were years wasted while the HC and "GM" tried to reclaim the past.

The rest of your opinion is well stated, and I don't have a real problem with it. You seem to be putting a lot of blame on Devaney, especially since he had no control of the 08 Draft. What happened in the 09 Draft is predicated on what happened in 08, I suppose, but it is what it is.
 

428

UDFA
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  • #3
Yeah, some of the timing could be off a bit, as I wrote the post quickly, and from memory. If some of the dates are off slightly, I don't think that any inaccuracies really detract tremendously from the historical aspects of the message, or the post generally. At least I hope they don't.

As for Devaney, here's my follow up:

I like the guy...I really do. He's done some good things, made some minor mistakes and made some major ones. In addition, the early, critical mistakes made by the franchises in this "rebuild" were not even made by him...but fair or not he is going to pay the price for failing to do more with the hands that he was dealt...and for the mistakes that he made with the hands that he was dealt. Through thick and thin, he has always been a stand up guy, which is a big reason why he is respected in league circles. Largely though, and aside from the mistakes that he has made, the franchise desperately needs a GM who can do things that Devaney is not capable of doing. Given the recent history and current state of affairs, it seems to me that the Devaney tenure has run its course and that a change is both needed and imminent.
 

-X-

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That's well articulated, but I have a few of questions.

1. This "snail's pace" acquisition of free agent talent. You know why that is, right? There was very little maneuvering they could do under the 2009 cap restrictions and the 2010 limited availability of free agents. Once 2011 rolled around and they had both the means AND resources to add talent, they did so in bulk. That, coupled with the truncated off-season made it pretty difficult to get so many faces on the same page. Maybe that's self-inflicted, but that's also a double-edged sword. If they DON'T add free agents in bulk, then they're short-handed and heavily scrutinized for NOT adding free agents.

2. Was there a lot of interest in their #2 pick in 2009? I don't recall a lot of offers, rumors of offers or even speculations that they would get an offer. That was just a horrible, horrible draft class - all things considered. And it might have been a swing and a miss, but they needed a tackle in the worst way, and once you get past the first round at that position, you're really hoping upon hope that you pick a winner. There was a pretty high consensus that Smith was going to be the first tackle off the board and there were many reasons why.

3. How does drafting Ryan fit into the 65 million dollar deal offered to Bulger just one year prior? Now you're mixing regimes. I don't see how Devaney could even last a day after signing Matty Ice to a 72M deal with 34M and change in guarantees with Bulger slated to make nearly as much. Yeesh.

And yeah, CL was out of position for the first year while Leonard Little manned the LDE spot. As I recall, though, they rotated quite a bit in Spags' first year. Spagnuolo, as you know, moves his DL all over the line and he's not exactly a proponent of giving starting jobs to young players. And personally, I think his experience at RDE did him some good. Albeit more of an ancillary benefit than a useful life experience.

Anyway, it's good to get another take on things. I just think it's a little more complicated than you're illustrating.
 

Yamahopper

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Thanks for all your effort. nice read.

I don't share all your opinions but thank you for stating them and making me think. But did make some very nice points.
 

Anonymous

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This "snail's pace" acquisition of free agent talent. You know why that is, right? There was very little maneuvering they could do under the 2009 cap restrictions and the 2010 limited availability of free agents. Once 2011 rolled around and they had both the means AND resources to add talent, they did so in bulk. That, coupled with the truncated off-season made it pretty difficult to get so many faces on the same page.

Plus in 2010 they were between owners and were working with a budget. That means there was no one to pay the bonus money upfront.

How does drafting Ryan fit into the 65 million dollar deal offered to Bulger just one year prior? Now you're mixing regimes. I don't see how Devaney could even last a day after signing Matty Ice to a 72M deal with 34M and change in guarantees with Bulger slated to make nearly as much. Yeesh.

As you (X) know full well, Devaney did not have final say on personnel or exclusive say over personnel policy in 2008, so even if he wanted Ryan, no one else did. That much came down from Shaw himself. No they were not looking at Ryan. That's from Shaw. It wasn't Devaney's call. Plus at the time all they knew was that Bulger had one bad year in 2007 after a good one in 2006 (after several good ones before that), and they knew the bad year was due to a complete OL collapse (worse than 2011 even). Why would they then assume they had to go qb. For that matter, look at Ryan now. Is he an elite qb doing better than Bulger did in 2006? Has Ryan yet had any consecutive years as good as anything Bulger did in consecutive years from 2004-2006?

Plus there's this on the whole "snail's pace" thing.

Devaney does not start his regime and running personnel until 2009. He has had 3 years.

I have asked people several times if it is possible to build a team from scratch without inherited veteran talent within 3 years and if it is, to name examples.
No one can or does. Yet if they can't that invalidates the entire premise and shuts down the idea that 3 years building from scratch is a do-able standard.

I want to underscore that. Anyone who wants to judge this regime for not making it in 3 years not only has to account for injuries of the kind the Rams had (and they invariably do not account for that) but they need to be able to name teams (not an expansion team with expansion team advantages) that were"built" within three years of starting over from scratch in the modern cap era.

To be brutally specific, that means:

* the examples cannot have a fund of inherited veteran talent--they really have to be starting over from scratch without the benefit of having a number of good veteran draft picks from the previous 2-6 years.

* they really have to be recognizably "built" in year 3.

Without naming examples the entire premise is invalid.

That's pretty ironclad. It's pretty clear logic. Doesn't seem to be any way around it. If the standard is a legitimate one, someone ought to be able to name examples. If they can't, it's not a legitimate standard.
 

428

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X said:
That's well articulated, but I have a few of questions.

1. This "snail's pace" acquisition of free agent talent. You know why that is, right? There was very little maneuvering they could do under the 2009 cap restrictions and the 2010 limited availability of free agents. Once 2011 rolled around and they had both the means AND resources to add talent, they did so in bulk. That, coupled with the truncated off-season made it pretty difficult to get so many faces on the same page. Maybe that's self-inflicted, but that's also a double-edged sword. If they DON'T add free agents in bulk, then they're short-handed and heavily scrutinized for NOT adding free agents.

2. Was there a lot of interest in their #2 pick in 2009? I don't recall a lot of offers, rumors of offers or even speculations that they would get an offer. That was just a horrible, horrible draft class - all things considered. And it might have been a swing and a miss, but they needed a tackle in the worst way, and once you get past the first round at that position, you're really hoping upon hope that you pick a winner. There was a pretty high consensus that Smith was going to be the first tackle off the board and there were many reasons why.

3. How does drafting Ryan fit into the 65 million dollar deal offered to Bulger just one year prior? Now you're mixing regimes. I don't see how Devaney could even last a day after signing Matty Ice to a 72M deal with 34M and change in guarantees with Bulger slated to make nearly as much. Yeesh.

And yeah, CL was out of position for the first year while Leonard Little manned the LDE spot. As I recall, though, they rotated quite a bit in Spags' first year. Spagnuolo, as you know, moves his DL all over the line and he's not exactly a proponent of giving starting jobs to young players. And personally, I think his experience at RDE did him some good. Albeit more of an ancillary benefit than a useful life experience.

Anyway, it's good to get another take on things. I just think it's a little more complicated than you're illustrating.

I just submitted a long post to your response, but it does not appear to have made it to the board. To make matters worse, when I clicked submit I had to re-log in, so there does not appear to be any way to retrieve it. I spent about 30 minutes writing it! If you have anyway to access to it, please post it (i'm guessing I'm sol). I certainly don't feel like re-writing it right now.

When I re-logged in, I noticed that you've let ZN back on this site. One of the major benefits of your board was that it was a ZN free environment. That appears to no longer be the case, which of course means that your board just got a lot less appealing.
 

-X-

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428 said:
X said:
That's well articulated, but I have a few of questions.

1. This "snail's pace" acquisition of free agent talent. You know why that is, right? There was very little maneuvering they could do under the 2009 cap restrictions and the 2010 limited availability of free agents. Once 2011 rolled around and they had both the means AND resources to add talent, they did so in bulk. That, coupled with the truncated off-season made it pretty difficult to get so many faces on the same page. Maybe that's self-inflicted, but that's also a double-edged sword. If they DON'T add free agents in bulk, then they're short-handed and heavily scrutinized for NOT adding free agents.

2. Was there a lot of interest in their #2 pick in 2009? I don't recall a lot of offers, rumors of offers or even speculations that they would get an offer. That was just a horrible, horrible draft class - all things considered. And it might have been a swing and a miss, but they needed a tackle in the worst way, and once you get past the first round at that position, you're really hoping upon hope that you pick a winner. There was a pretty high consensus that Smith was going to be the first tackle off the board and there were many reasons why.

3. How does drafting Ryan fit into the 65 million dollar deal offered to Bulger just one year prior? Now you're mixing regimes. I don't see how Devaney could even last a day after signing Matty Ice to a 72M deal with 34M and change in guarantees with Bulger slated to make nearly as much. Yeesh.

And yeah, CL was out of position for the first year while Leonard Little manned the LDE spot. As I recall, though, they rotated quite a bit in Spags' first year. Spagnuolo, as you know, moves his DL all over the line and he's not exactly a proponent of giving starting jobs to young players. And personally, I think his experience at RDE did him some good. Albeit more of an ancillary benefit than a useful life experience.

Anyway, it's good to get another take on things. I just think it's a little more complicated than you're illustrating.

I just submitted a long post to your response, but it does not appear to have made it to the board. To make matters worse, when I clicked submit I had to re-log in, so there does not appear to be any way to retrieve it. I spent about 30 minutes writing it! If you have anyway to access to it, please post it (i'm guessing I'm sol). I certainly don't feel like re-writing it right now.

When I re-logged in, I noticed that you've let ZN back on this site. One of the major benefits of your board was that it was a ZN free environment. That appears to no longer be the case, which of course means that your board just got a lot less appealing.
No, I can't retrieve lost posts. Sorry. Your best bet would have been to use your "back" button a few times until it showed up in the message box again. And letting ZN back in was my call. He's a friend of mine, and he understands what this board is about. He also has no problem abiding by the rules. In the interest of fairness, you should also familiarize yourself with same. <a class="postlink-local" href="http://ramsondemand.com/rules.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">rules.html</a>

I'd like to think you two are mature enough to engage in a debate without resorting to personal grudge matches.
 

428

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Yeah, I tried the back button. Believe me I spent some time on the post so I wanted to retrieve it. Once you're logged out the post is lost.

As far as your characterizations of the responses as "debate" or the furtherance of some sort of "grudge match", I guess I'll just say that I'm sorry you see it that way. I personally have zero interest in engaging in the types of exchanges in which the poster attempts to start. Put simply, I visit sites such as this one because I enjoy discussing football. I derive no enjoyment, and find no redeeming benefit whatsoever from any form of exchange with the poster. Having to avoid dealing with the poster's responses on one forum is more than enough for me. Good luck with the website!
 

-X-

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The Dude
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Obviously, if you reconsidered, you'd be afforded the same protection that everyone on this forum enjoys. There's simply zero tolerance for attacking posters here, and everyone is subject to that rule. Everyone. Anyway, we'll be here if you change your mind. You obviously bring a lot to the table and it would be a shame if your reluctance to share your insight was due to the mere presence of another poster (who also enjoys talking about football). I honestly believe you're a bigger man than that.
 

Angry Ram

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I remember that Ryan really wasn't regarded as the top player or QB in that draft class. He was only there by default. Compare that to Bradford in 2010 and Luck/RG3 this year. Obviously he proved all the naysayers wrong and in hindsight would be the top pick in redrafts.

But there are no redrafts and it just goes to show no one knows anything.
 

Faceplant

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Angry Ram said:
I remember that Ryan really wasn't regarded as the top player or QB in that draft class. He was only there by default. Compare that to Bradford in 2010 and Luck/RG3 this year. Obviously he proved all the naysayers wrong and in hindsight would be the top pick in redrafts.

But there are no redrafts and it just goes to show no one knows anything.

Agree. In my opinion, a LOT of why the Rams are in their current state is simply bad luck. I of course blame myself for this, and so I will be reverse jinxing the team from here on out. My prediction for next season is as follows:

We start over with all new coaches. Head coach Chucky will get on the horn to Brad Johnson and coax him out of retirement, then trade Bradford straight up to the Seachickens for Clipboard Jesus. He will then draft a backup power forward from Kentucky in the 1st round as a project TE. The rest of the draft picks will be traded to the 49'ers for Brian Westbrook (who of course is no longer a niner, but Chuckster never got the message). The Rams will finish 0-16 and the team will be moved to the Peruvian Andes where they will play at 13,000ft in Dos Millas de alto Stadium. The team will be renamed the Peruvian Mountain Goats and will be moved to a new NFC division, the NFC South America.