My advice about future defense

[leoram]

We all know Jeff Fisher rarely fields good offenses so the obvious is out of the way, but my greatest criticism of his Ram legacy will surprisingly be his choice of defensive coordinators. He intended and ended with Gregg Williams and in the meantime installed Tim Walton to hold serve.

The Rams have very good defensive talent and sometimes look dominant on that side of the ball but I believe the coaching philosophy held them back. Coaches like Rob Ryan (Fisher tried to get him), Williams, and Jim Haslett are the types who gamble and win but frequently gamble and lose. This year, this "smart gambler" coach has been exposed as I predicted many times on this forum.

I support my argument by mentioning Rod Marinelli in Dallas. Snead has drafted studs like Donald and Ogletree but Marinelli has very average talent (Sean Lee and Brandon Carr are their best) and coordinates a better defense because he gambles less and teaches more. Let's consider how the 2000 Ravens played defense. They didn't need exotic blitzes. The scheme was simple but disciplined and violent. Fisher and Williams coach teams who take chances and lead the league in penalties.

I say this because the few times the Rams have shown competence offensively this year, the defense laid down. Consider the performances against the Niners, Bucs, Lions, Saints, Pats, Falcons, and Bills. Williams was thoroughly out coached (win or lose) in each game. If the Dline can't dominate the game (Hawks, Cards, Giants, Panthers, Jets, Dolphins) Haslett, oops...Williams has NO idea what to do to stop the bleeding.

I feel compelled now to further comment. As boring and unimaginative as John Robinson and Chuck Knox were, the Fisher Era was far more painful. If your philosophy is to run the football and play great defense...I can get behind it. But if that's the case (and the current personnel was built for it), here is what needs to happen going forward. Stan, I hope you're reading:

1. OLine OLine OLine!!!! Havenstein and maybe Brown are the only men I want to see starting in the future. IF Robinson can effectively be moved to guard...well, maybe. (Saffold is a temporary stopgap who can't stay healthy). Goff, Gurley, Austin, and Britt are all capable enough skill players but without blocking, their talents are completely wasted. It's almost like watching a painful pee wee football game where the QB and RB get hit every play before they ever get to do anything athletically other than hold on to the football and escape 3 of the four players who have clear shots at them.

2. Get receivers who can actually CATCH the F'ing football.

3. I want creative thinkers like Martz and Gase coordinating the offense and teachers like Dungy and Lovie leading the talent laden D.

4. Keep Bones!!!! This IS the BEST special teams the Rams EVER fielded...bar none.

5. Keep Snead... his process and staff are sound. I feel like Snead tried to pull Fisher into this century and was limited by Fisher's outdated mindset.

6. If you're going blue and white for horns, go all the way with the uniforms too. Hermaphrodites rarely make good football players.

 

[TexasRam]

I totally agree with you on all points.

Rams must get real serious about building a dominating oline. That is priority 1, 2 and 3.

For me you cut your loss with Grob. He just cannot play at this level. Busts happen oh well. The sooner you move on the sooner the healing starts.

Get Wr's that can catch a dam ball.

And get an O coordinator that knows how to play a step ahead of the rest.

 

[FRO]

We all know Jeff Fisher rarely fields good offenses so the obvious is out of the way, but my greatest criticism of his Ram legacy will surprisingly be his choice of defensive coordinators. He intended and ended with Gregg Williams and in the meantime installed Tim Walton to hold serve.

The Rams have very good defensive talent and sometimes look dominant on that side of the ball but I believe the coaching philosophy held them back. Coaches like Rob Ryan (Fisher tried to get him), Williams, and Jim Haslett are the types who gamble and win but frequently gamble and lose. This year, this "smart gambler" coach has been exposed as I predicted many times on this forum.

I support my argument by mentioning Rod Marinelli in Dallas. Snead has drafted studs like Donald and Ogletree but Marinelli has very average talent (Sean Lee and Brandon Carr are their best) and coordinates a better defense because he gambles less and teaches more. Let's consider how the 2000 Ravens played defense. They didn't need exotic blitzes. The scheme was simple but disciplined and violent. Fisher and Williams coach teams who take chances and lead the league in penalties.

I say this because the few times the Rams have shown competence offensively this year, the defense laid down. Consider the performances against the Niners, Bucs, Lions, Saints, Pats, Falcons, and Bills. Williams was thoroughly out coached (win or lose) in each game. If the Dline can't dominate the game (Hawks, Cards, Giants, Panthers, Jets, Dolphins) Haslett, oops...Williams has NO idea what to do to stop the bleeding.

I feel compelled now to further comment. As boring and unimaginative as John Robinson and Chuck Knox were, the Fisher Era was far more painful. If your philosophy is to run the football and play great defense...I can get behind it. But if that's the case (and the current personnel was built for it), here is what needs to happen going forward. Stan, I hope you're reading:

1. OLine OLine OLine!!!! Havenstein and maybe Brown are the only men I want to see starting in the future. IF Robinson can effectively be moved to guard...well, maybe. (Saffold is a temporary stopgap who can't stay healthy). Goff, Gurley, Austin, and Britt are all capable enough skill players but without blocking, their talents are completely wasted. It's almost like watching a painful pee wee football game where the QB and RB get hit every play before they ever get to do anything athletically other than hold on to the football and escape 3 of the four players who have clear shots at them.

2. Get receivers who can actually CATCH the F'ing football.

3. I want creative thinkers like Martz and Gase coordinating the offense and teachers like Dungy and Lovie leading the talent laden D.

4. Keep Bones!!!! This IS the BEST special teams the Rams EVER fielded...bar none.

5. Keep Snead... his process and staff are sound. I feel like Snead tried to pull Fisher into this century and was limited by Fisher's outdated mindset.

6. If you're going blue and white for horns, go all the way with the uniforms too. Hermaphrodites rarely make good football players.

Really enjoyed reading this. I agree with simplifying the defense and allow the great talent on that side of the ball go out and play instead of getting too cute.

 

[Mikey Ram]

We all know Jeff Fisher rarely fields good offenses so the obvious is out of the way, but my greatest criticism of his Ram legacy will surprisingly be his choice of defensive coordinators. He intended and ended with Gregg Williams and in the meantime installed Tim Walton to hold serve.

The Rams have very good defensive talent and sometimes look dominant on that side of the ball but I believe the coaching philosophy held them back. Coaches like Rob Ryan (Fisher tried to get him), Williams, and Jim Haslett are the types who gamble and win but frequently gamble and lose. This year, this "smart gambler" coach has been exposed as I predicted many times on this forum.

I support my argument by mentioning Rod Marinelli in Dallas. Snead has drafted studs like Donald and Ogletree but Marinelli has very average talent (Sean Lee and Brandon Carr are their best) and coordinates a better defense because he gambles less and teaches more. Let's consider how the 2000 Ravens played defense. They didn't need exotic blitzes. The scheme was simple but disciplined and violent. Fisher and Williams coach teams who take chances and lead the league in penalties.

I say this because the few times the Rams have shown competence offensively this year, the defense laid down. Consider the performances against the Niners, Bucs, Lions, Saints, Pats, Falcons, and Bills. Williams was thoroughly out coached (win or lose) in each game. If the Dline can't dominate the game (Hawks, Cards, Giants, Panthers, Jets, Dolphins) Haslett, oops...Williams has NO idea what to do to stop the bleeding.

I feel compelled now to further comment. As boring and unimaginative as John Robinson and Chuck Knox were, the Fisher Era was far more painful. If your philosophy is to run the football and play great defense...I can get behind it. But if that's the case (and the current personnel was built for it), here is what needs to happen going forward. Stan, I hope you're reading:

1. OLine OLine OLine!!!! Havenstein and maybe Brown are the only men I want to see starting in the future. IF Robinson can effectively be moved to guard...well, maybe. (Saffold is a temporary stopgap who can't stay healthy). Goff, Gurley, Austin, and Britt are all capable enough skill players but without blocking, their talents are completely wasted. It's almost like watching a painful pee wee football game where the QB and RB get hit every play before they ever get to do anything athletically other than hold on to the football and escape 3 of the four players who have clear shots at them.

2. Get receivers who can actually CATCH the F'ing football.

3. I want creative thinkers like Martz and Gase coordinating the offense and teachers like Dungy and Lovie leading the talent laden D.

4. Keep Bones!!!! This IS the BEST special teams the Rams EVER fielded...bar none.

5. Keep Snead... his process and staff are sound. I feel like Snead tried to pull Fisher into this century and was limited by Fisher's outdated mindset.

6. If you're going blue and white for horns, go all the way with the uniforms too. Hermaphrodites rarely make good football players.

I agree without virtually everything you said...It's as close as any comments I've ever read here that could be a mirror of mine...I really enjoyed that piece...Well done...

 

[LACHAMP46]

Havenstein and maybe Brown are the only men I want to see starting in the future.

i HAVE SERIOUS DOUBTS....oops caps lock....serious doubts about Havenstein being starting caliber....Brown too....In fact, I think the only lineman that is a good player is Saffold...and Greg is the only guy with the talent to become significantly better. I'd bet he's the ONLY LINEMAN on this team in 2018....and I'd play him at RT....Havensteins spot. Brown took an incredible step backwards as far as performance.

 

[UKram]

i HAVE SERIOUS DOUBTS....oops caps lock....serious doubts about Havenstein being starting caliber....Brown too....In fact, I think the only lineman that is a good player is Saffold...and Greg is the only guy with the talent to become significantly better. I'd bet he's the ONLY LINEMAN on this team in 2018....and I'd play him at RT....Havensteins spot. Brown took an incredible step backwards as far as performance.

but wasnt it a stat that havenstien last year did not give up a sack ? (i know he has regressed0 but the whole dam o line have

 

[LACHAMP46]

but wasnt it a stat that havenstien last year did not give up a sack ? (i know he has regressed0 but the whole dam o line have

Unless he's playing injured, Havenstein has performed worse than Greg Robinson EVER has played here....And I think the primary problems on the line remain scheme...but even when looking at several players, the guards allow too much penetration...and never get a push...that's a physical limitation...and Havenstein shows this repeatedly.

 

[Snaz]

Havenstein has played injured. The injury that kept him out of preseason has lingered. You can see he favors his foot/ankle.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I agree with all of it. The trouble is that with so many college teams running spread offenses it is much more difficult to find good Olinemen. The Rams need a few key free agent signings on the line of proven talent. I wanted Hudson, then I wanted Mack. Osemele and Hudson have transformed the Raiders. Mack has had an enormous impact on the Falcons. The Rams need to find a stud or two on the line to teach players how to be pros and also work together.

I never like the risky defensive philosophy. It is telling that JJ has suddenly become the player that everyone thought he could be, now that he is with a different Defensive coordinator. Seattle has flourished with a simple Cover 3 base defense. Dallas has taken what was thought to be a washed up DC in Marinelli and has a solid unit, as you said. I hope they can find a coach that is very observant of what actually works in the NFL in the current decade, and not two decades before.

A good defensive backfield is a must. The Giants D is putting them in the playoffs and most of it is due to their shutdown corners. Denver has a great DB and so does Seattle. Arizona did for years too. It works when there is so much passing going on........it is a must.

 

[DaveFan'51]

While I agree with everything said, about what needs to be done to fix the Offense, I can't help but think that part of the problem for the "D" was that it was on the Field for 75% of the game due to poor offense and the "D" schemes got exposed after a while, and opponents game planned against our "D" and didn't worry about our Offense except to STOP Gurrrley! I hope I'm making sense with this point!?!

 

[UKram]

Unless he's playing injured, Havenstein has performed worse than Greg Robinson EVER has played here....And I think the primary problems on the line remain scheme...but even when looking at several players, the guards allow too much penetration...and never get a push...that's a physical limitation...and Havenstein shows this repeatedly.

Havenstien wasn't a 2nd overall pick though .... I think the guy can play and he showed that his rookie year .....no doubt he has been bad this year ... but like a lot of our problems is it done to scheme ? coaching ? Square peg round hole ? Injury

 

[UKram]

I agree with all of it. The trouble is that with so many college teams running spread offenses it is much more difficult to find good Olinemen. The Rams need a few key free agent signings on the line of proven talent. I wanted Hudson, then I wanted Mack. Osemele and Hudson have transformed the Raiders. Mack has had an enormous impact on the Falcons. The Rams need to find a stud or two on the line to teach players how to be pros and also work together.

I never like the risky defensive philosophy. It is telling that JJ has suddenly become the player that everyone thought he could be, now that he is with a different Defensive coordinator. Seattle has flourished with a simple Cover 3 base defense. Dallas has taken what was thought to be a washed up DC in Marinelli and has a solid unit, as you said. I hope they can find a coach that is very observant of what actually works in the NFL in the current decade, and not two decades before.

A good defensive backfield is a must. The Giants D is putting them in the playoffs and most of it is due to their shutdown corners. Denver has a great DB and so does Seattle. Arizona did for years too. It works when there is so much passing going on........it is a must.

Our secondary has lived off our pass rush in the past ... and I think the coaching staff realised we didn't need a "shutdown" corner because you could an average /above average corner back there and with the pressure out front 4/blitzes created they would be adequate

 

[Hawaii Ram]

I agree with all points. I will also add that I want a defense that isn't afraid to play some press coverage on 3 and long. I'm tired of our corners playing 10 yards off the ball and backpedaling when the ball is snapped only to give up a simple pitch and catch for the first down. It's so demoralizing to play great defense on the first 2 downs and then follow it up with being ultra conservative. I'm not saying all out blitz but just play some press and allow our pass rush the opportunity to get there.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Havenstien wasn't a 2nd overall pick though

@nd pick overall or 2nd round...Doesn't matter now...Who can play? Who can perform? Just looking at Havenstein, he was overdrafted like G-Rob too...and doesn't appear able to play RT. While I think, and many others too believe G-Rob could possibly move positions, RT or either guard position.
The things I've seen on Havenstein, guys blasting by him, and also blasting over him, lead me to the conclusion that Havenstein, even with a scheme change is never going to be a good tackle. Esp. against speed rushers.

 

[UKram]

@nd pick overall or 2nd round...Doesn't matter now...Who can play? Who can perform? Just looking at Havenstein, he was overdrafted like G-Rob too...and doesn't appear able to play RT. While I think, and many others too believe G-Rob could possibly move positions, RT or either guard position.
The things I've seen on Havenstein, guys blasting by him, and also blasting over him, lead me to the conclusion that Havenstein, even with a scheme change is never going to be a good tackle. Esp. against speed rushers.

So we are Just discounting his first year ? ... where he looked pretty solid and gave up no sacks ? .... because there's another player who hasn't looked so shit hot in his second year . Doesn't look like half the player he was last year do we discount him too

 

[LACHAMP46]

So we are Just discounting his first year ? ... where he looked pretty solid and gave up no sacks ?

You say solid...I say he's a below average OT....And pretty much everyone on this offense appears like this...

The only reason I give "the other player" a pass is he was generally regarded as a top prospect b4 he became a pro...he made the probowl...and I'd look at the guys blocking for him...Havenstein included. Never liked the pick, was pleasantly surprised he could perform, but his overall body of work, showed a lack of foot speed and physicality that cannot be tolerated on the line going forward. He's not part of the solution...he's part of the problem.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Our secondary has lived off our pass rush in the past ... and I think the coaching staff realised we didn't need a "shutdown" corner because you could an average /above average corner back there and with the pressure out front 4/blitzes created they would be adequate

Look at the best defenses in the league. They have great DBs. It makes a huge difference in a passing league. A great pass rush can be beat with average players on the back end. I do understand the concept of having a dominating pass rush to reduce the time DBs have to cover but I don't think it works as well as having some shut down players in the Defensive backfield. Seattles, Denvers, and Giants DBs all make their pass rush that much better by giving them more time to get the sack. The Rams sacks are not all that impressive because we don't have great cover guys in the backfield.

 

[StealYoGurley]

6. If you're going blue and white for horns, go all the way with the uniforms too.

Honestly what the hell was that it looked even more ridiculous than Seattle's kermit the frog uniforms and that is saying something. What the hell was color rush about it? It was the same uniforms they always were, but just changed the uniform. They get a chance to connect to the old LA fans and totally half ass it on national TV. Looked like an underfunded pop warner team.

 

[UKram]

Look at the best defenses in the league. They have great DBs. It makes a huge difference in a passing league. A great pass rush can be beat with average players on the back end. I do understand the concept of having a dominating pass rush to reduce the time DBs have to cover but I don't think it works as well as having some shut down players in the Defensive backfield. Seattles, Denvers, and Giants DBs all make their pass rush that much better by giving them more time to get the sack. The Rams sacks are not all that impressive because we don't have great cover guys in the backfield.

No I agree with what you were saying .... I'm saying that was fish and company's thinking ...great d line and average corners probably part of the reason they let JJ go (although I'm not sure he would have stayed he wanted to go to anwinner )

 

[UKram]

You say solid...I say he's a below average OT....And pretty much everyone on this offense appears like this...

The only reason I give "the other player" a pass is he was generally regarded as a top prospect b4 he became a pro...he made the probowl...and I'd look at the guys blocking for him...Havenstein included. Never liked the pick, was pleasantly surprised he could perform, but his overall body of work, showed a lack of foot speed and physicality that cannot be tolerated on the line going forward. He's not part of the solution...he's part of the problem.

So his online last year helped him get to the pro bowl (pretty much the same five players minus Reynolds ) and the guy that gave up exactly zero sacks last year is suddenly sucky ... can we upgrade over Hav ? Yeah ... but I'd look at other posistions before I'd go after him ... like our "franchise" LT