More Goff talk

[Ramhusker]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...playing/ar-AAjU9JZ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

[FaulkSF]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...playing/ar-AAjU9JZ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Good post, but not very reassuring. It seems that Weinke is hiding something.

 

[Relwolf91]

Good post, but not very reassuring. It seems that Weinke is hiding something.

Maybe the notion that he's inept at developing a QB?

 

[blackbart]

Exactly what they have been saying all along. He wasn't ready coming out, we are training him and when he is ready he will be the guy.

 

[-X-]

Weinke added:"I think we’re being smart right now in not rushing him into a position — not that he’s going to fail, we’re not saying that — but we want to put him in a position to be successful."

Well, shit. They've only been saying that since day one.
But let's have 400 more articles questioning why he isn't playing anyway.

 

[…..]

I'd rather talk about the other quarterback.

Cam Newton and Monday's concussion protocol

 

[Mackeyser]

Weinke's trying to develop a QB.

But what's he working him into? He's working him into a Coryell/WCO hybrid that's more WCO than Coryell now... WITH some Boras passing concepts bolted on/stirred in. We don't know if those are spread concepts, EP concepts or what.

Funny... I dunno if it was last game or the game before... a stat came up on the screen. The Rams were THIRD in the league in pass plays over 20 yards. That caught me by surprise. Especially because defenses, as the one defender stated after they beat us stated outright that they stacked the box and "they just never went deep". Except...we do.

Maybe it's just not enough to pull the defenses away. Thus, even if they're not technically stacking the box, the first step for LBs is TOWARD the LOS.

Which gets us back to system. System coherency is very important. We talk about processing speed for a QB. our brains recognize patterns. All animals do. It's why gazelle flick their tails when evading lions. It disrupts the patterns and forces them to refocus their attack vector. It's not just visual...we do the same with scent other senses as well. Point being that when a QB has the ball, if an offensive system has coherency, where the ball SHOULD go will "feel natural" because of the extension of the philosophy of the system. If it doesn't, the system will "feel mechanical" and require processed reactions that require more time to execute.

Thus, when you have a Montana or Young in the Walsh WCO or Brady in the Belichick EP or Manning in the Tom Moore EP or Roethlisberger in the Pitt EP, those offensive systems... EVEN AS THEY ADAPTED TO PERSONNEL CHANGES... were coherent insofar as what they were trying to accomplish in each play and with each player.

Thus, when Brady and Belichick went from the two TE set to incorporating some spread elements because Aaron Hernandez got arrested, the offensive philosophy didn't change at all, they just altered the emphasis and didn't skip a beat. Same with Pitt. Same with Manning in Indy and then Denver while running that offense. It was only when switching to Kubiak's offense that Manning's output tanked...in large part because it wasn't just a hybrid of the two systems...but because there was no coherency between the Tom Moore EP and Kubiak's system (I forget what he runs atm).

So... Weinke is in a tough spot. You all know my position. This system is broken, schematically. It doesn't have answers for every down and distance...as we've seen over and over and over...uke::deadhorse:But, Weinke can't very well come out and say that. Thus... Goff may be "as ready as I can get him"... and still...that may not be near ready enough... NOT because of any fault of Goffs, but because so much of the unintuitive, rote memorization that has to happen in game can't be prepped prior to learning on the job.

Yes, Aaron Rodgers struggled a bit prior to blowing up. (So did Brett Favre, btw) But he had Mike McCarthy and a coherent system to learn in. Steve Young had plenty of time to UNLEARN his silliness from Tampa Bay and the USFL in SF within Walsh's very coherent WCO.

Some have questioned Sit or Play. I dunno that THAT is the question. Honestly, if we had a coherent offensive system, then the debate would have more merit, imho. At this point, Goff at best is going to learn a cobbled together offense that...what? Kinda does play action, doesn't know where the first down marker is and doesn't have a blocking identity?

The key going forward (and the biggest thing to look for in a new HC and his new offense) will be coherency. When offensive systems are coherent, players are able to process both on the intuitive level and on the thinking level and the game REALLY slows down. THAT's when teams begin to dominate...and not just for a year, but for an extended time.

 

[-X-]

But what's he working him into? He's working him into a Coryell/WCO hybrid that's more WCO than Coryell now... WITH some Boras passing concepts bolted on/stirred in. We don't know if those are spread concepts, EP concepts or what.

He's working on his mechanics, fundamentals, focusing on drops, footwork, release etc. It's not Wienke's job to teach him the X's and O's of the scheme. Boras and Groh are teaching that in the classroom and during film study. He's also getting a heavy dose of learning by watching Keenum execute the offense. And their offense is clearly Coryell in base principle. Timing patterns, vertical spread, power running, and a bigger/stronger line. None of that is WCO, and they don't have any elements of Earhardt-Perkins either. They do throw some other plays into the mix like wildcat and reverses, but every team that employs a Coryell system has tweaked it with different foreign plays.

 

[Mackeyser]

He's working on his mechanics, fundamentals, focusing on drops, footwork, release etc. It's not Wienke's job to teach him the X's and O's of the scheme. Boras and Groh are teaching that in the classroom and during film study. He's also getting a heavy dose of learning by watching Keenum execute the offense. And their offense is clearly Coryell in base principle. Timing patterns, vertical spread, power running, and a bigger/stronger line. None of that is WCO, and they don't have any elements of Earhardt-Perkins either. They do throw some other plays into the mix like wildcat and reverses, but every team that employs a Coryell system has tweaked it with different foreign plays.

You know that whole thing is a "yeah, but"...

Weinke needs to synergize his work with the OC and the system. Otherwise, with any breakdown, there's this Microsoft type "who's responsible for fixing it?" type stuff which is problematic even if no one is passing the buck.

As for this offense being clearly a Coryell base... /sigh.

You know that's not true. They've been moving TOWARD more WCO which likely explains the lack of success in the running game this year as much as anything (including the blocking scheme, btw). It's STILL a hybrid, so we still see Coryell stuff. I've said since the off-season that this was a Coryell/WCO hybrid, a relic of Schotty. After Schotty, Fisher wanted to go MORE WCO, hence his choice of OCs since then.

So, while everything you said is technically correct, it's like saying a slice of pie is the pie. No. A slice of pie is a slice of pie. It's not the whole pie. There's the rest of the pie.

At this point, I'm just resigned to it like I was resigned to some of the crappy cars I had when I was young and broke. I knew what it was and what it could and couldn't do and on good days, I was surprised and on bad days...well, we all know what a bad car day looks like.

The only thing that frustrates me at this point is that with a new mechanic to retool/reassemble these existing parts, I think this hoopdee could become a bombass ride. All the pieces are there.

But...until "dad" springs for a new mechanic...we're all stuck with this crappy car. It's never gonna get us that promotion (the Super Bowl) and or that date (playoffs), but when we get to work on time without incident, we celebrate (wins). Unfortunately, that happens less often then we should expect.

By the way, I don't mean to shout, I dunno how else to do emphasis. Bold? Asterisks? Italics? So much is lost with text and I don't have Samuel L Jackson to narrate my posts for me...

 

[RamFan503]

But let's have 400 more articles questioning why he isn't playing anyway.

We're not there yet?

 

[dieterbrock]

He's ready to step in and take over at any time, but he's not ready to start.
My 5 year old can come up with more realistic excuses

 

[CGI_Ram]

He's ready to step in and take over at any time, but he's not ready to start.

Yeah; that's a little hard to reconcile.

 

[jrry32]

He's ready to step in and take over at any time, but he's not ready to start.
My 5 year old can come up with more realistic excuses

"Jared's dog ate his playbook." "Jared left his helmet at home." "Jared's mom grounded him for not cleaning his room."

 

[-X-]

As for this offense being clearly a Coryell base... /sigh.

You know that's not true. They've been moving TOWARD more WCO which likely explains the lack of success in the running game this year as much as anything (including the blocking scheme, btw).

I absolutely know that to be true. I can tell from the plays that Keenum's wife was calling out to Case, and I can tell from the way the team is built.

 

[Ballhawk]

Maybe Goff is confused from trying to make sense of our offense? I could see that holding him back.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Weinke added:"I think we’re being smart right now in not rushing him into a position — not that he’s going to fail, we’re not saying that — but we want to put him in a position to be successful."

Well, crap. They've only been saying that since day one.
But let's have 400 more articles questioning why he isn't playing anyway.

Agreed! The first 400 articles have been kind of BORING!:deadhorse: Maybe someone can come up with a knew 'Twist' in the next 400!!