Last 4 Years of drafting(L.Snead, T.Thompson, O.Newsome, J.Schneider, M.Brown, J.Elway)

[Mojo Ram]

Snead has been the Rams GM for four years. He has taken alot of crap for missing on that guy or drafting this guy etc...unfairly when you look at the complete body of work, and put it next to some of the other GM's body of work around the league.

It's true that he hasn't been perfect or near perfect, but who has? Grass is always greener syndrome?

It's really easy to call out Pead, Quick and Robinson as a bust, claim the Rams drafts have been poor...and ignore the entire body of work. It's myopic IMO. Good talent has been brought in. A few misses in the top couple rounds. Pead & Quick stand out to me. Robinson possibly but it's too early.
I look at these recent drafts by the "best" GM's out there and i don't see anything consistently far superior to what Snead has done in that same time.That's my opinion.

Below are facts.
Look at it. Make your own determinations. I went with generally successful teams and highly regarded GM's who don't generally rely on free agency a whole lot. I'm not including player trades or trade ups, trade downs. I don't have time for that. This is the talent pool taken on draft day.

Rams- Snead
2012
1 Brockers
2 Quick
2 Jenkins
2 Pead
3 Tru J
4 Givens
5 Rok Watkins
6 Zuerlein
7 Aaron Brown
7 Daryl Richardson

2013
1 T.Austin
1 A.Ogletree
3 TJ McDonald
3 Steadman Bailey
4 Barrett Jones
5 Brandon McGee
5 Zac Stacy

2014
1 G.Robinson
1 Aaron Donald
2 Lamarcus Joyner
3 Tre Mason
4 Mo Alexander
6 EJ Gaines
6 Garrett Gilbert
7 Mitchell Van Dyke
7 Christian Bryant
7 Michael Sam
7 Demetrius Rhaney

2015
1 Gurley
2 Havenstein
3 Jamon Brown
3 Sean Mannion
4 Andrew Donnal
6 Bud Sasser
6 Cody Wichmann
7 Bryce Hager
7 Martin Ifedi

I'll add these...
UDFA
Johnny Hekker
Marcus Roberson
Ethan Westbrooks
Benny Cunningham
Cory Harkey
Daren Bates
Rodney McLeod
------------------------
Packers- Ted Thompson
2012
1 Nick Perry LB
2 Jerel Worthy DE
2 Casey Heyward CB
4 Mike Daniels DE
4 Jerron McMillian SS
5 Terrell Manning LB
7 Andrew Dalko OT
7 BJ Coleman QB

2013
1 Datone Jones DE
2 Eddie Lacy RB
4 David Bakhtiari OT
4 JC Tretter OT
4 Johnathan Franklin RB
5 Micah Hyde CB
5 Josh Boyd DE
6 Nate Palmer OLB
7 Charles Johnson WR
7 Kevin Dorsey WR
7 Sam Barrington LB

2014
1 Ha ha Clinton Dix DB
2 Davante Adams WR
3 Khyri Thornton DT
3 Richard Rodgers TE
4 Carl Bradford OLB
5 Cory Linsley C
5 Jared Abbrederis WR
6 Demetri Goodson DB
7 Jeff Janis

2015
1 Damarious Randall DB
2 Quinten Rollins DB
3 Ty Montgomery WR
4 Jake Ryan LB
5 Brett Hundley QB
6 Aaron Ripkowski FB
6 Christian Ringo DE
6 Kennard Backman TE

--------------------------
Ravens- Ozzie Newsome
2012
2 Courtney Upshaw LB
2 Kelechi Osemele OT
3 Bernard Pierce RB
4 Gino Gradkowski OG
4 Christian Thompson DB
5 Asa Jackson DB
6 Tommy Streeter WR
7 DeAngelo Tyson DE

2013
1 Matt Elam DB
2 Arthur Brown LB
3 Brandon Williams DT
4 John Simon DE
4 Kyle Juszczyk FB
5 Ricky Wagner OT
6 Kapron Lewis-Moore DE
6 Ryan Jensen C
7 Aaron Mellette WR
7 Marc Anthony CB

2014
1 CJ Mosley LB
2 Timmy Jernigan DT
3 Terrence Brooks DB
3 Crockett Gillmore TE
4 Brent Urban DT
4 Lorenzo Taliaferro RB
5 John Urschel OG
6 Keith Wenning QB
7 Michael Camanaro WR

2015
1 Breshad Perriman WR
2 Maxx Williams TE
3 Carl Davis DT
4 Za'Darius Smith DE
4 Javorius Allen RB
4 Tray Walker CB
5 Nick Boyle TE
5 Robert Meyers OG
6 Darren Waller WR

UDFA
Justin Tucker K
Marlon Brown WR
James Hurst OT
------------------------
Seahawks- John Schneider
2012
1 Bruce Irvin DE
2 Bobby Wagner LB
3 Russell Wilson QB
4 Robert Turbin RB
4 Jaye Howard DT
5 Korey Toomer LB
6 Jeremy Lane CB
6 Winston Guy DB
7 JR Sweezy OG
7 Greg Scruggs DE

2013
2 Christian Michael RB
3 Jordan Hill DT
4 Chris Harper WR
5 Jessie Williams DT
5 Tharold Simon CB
5 Luke Wilson TE
6 Spencer Ware RB
7 Ryan Seymour OG
7 Ty Powell LB
7 Jared Smith DT
7 Michael Bowie OT

2014
2 Paul Richardson WR
2 Justin Britt OT
4 Cassius Marsh DE
4 Kevin Norwood WR
4 Kevin-Pierre Louis OLB
5 Jimmy Staten DT
6 Garret Scott OT
6 Eric Pinkins DB
7 Kiero Small FB

2015
2 Frank Clark DE
3 Tyler Lockett WR
4 Terry Poole OL
4 Mark Glowinski OL
5 Tye Smith CB
6 Marcus Burley CB
6 Obum Gwatcham DE
6 Kristjan Sololi OG
7 Ryan Murphy

UDFA
Jermaine Kearse WR
---------------------------
Bengals- Mike Brown
2012
1 Dre Kirkpatrick CB
1 Kevin Zeitler OG
2 Devon Still DT
3 Mohamed Sanu WR
3 Brandon Thompson DT
4 Orson Charles TE
5 Shaun Prater CB
5 Marvin Jones WR
5 George Iioka DB
6 Daniel Herron RB

2013
1 Tyler Eifert TE
2 Giovanni Bernard RB
2 Margus Hunt DE
3 Shawn Williams DB
4 Sean Porter LB
5 Tanner Hawkinson OG
6 Rex Burkhead RB
6 Cobi Hamilton WR
7 Reid Fragel OT
7 TJ Johnson C

2014
1 Darqueze Dennard CB
2 Jeremy Hill RB
3 Will Clarke DE
4 Russel Bodine C
5 AJ McCarron QB
6 Marquise Flowers LB
7 James Wright WR
7 Lavelle Westbrooks CB

2015
1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw CB
4 Marcus Hardison DT
5 TJ Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith DB
7 Mario Alford WR

UDFA
Vontaze Burfict LB
Emmanuel Lamur LB
-------------------------
Broncos- John Elway
2012
2 Derek Wolfe DT
2 Brock Osweiler QB
3 Ronnie Hillman RB
4 Omar Boldin DB
4 Phillip Blake OL
5 Malik Jackson DT
6 Danny Trevathan LB

2013
1 Sylvester Williams DT
2 Montee Ball RB
3 Kayvon Webster DB
5 Quanterus Smith DE
5 Tavarres King WR
6 Vinston Painter OG
7 Zack Dysert QB

2014
1 Bradley Roby DB
2 Cody Latimer WR
3 Michael Shofield OL
5 Lamin Barrow LB
6 Matt Paradis OL
7 Corey Nelson LB

2015
1 Shane Ray LB
2 Ty Sambrailo OT
3 Jeff Heuerman TE
4 Max Garcia C
5 Lorenzo Doss CB
6 Darius Kilgo DT
7 Trevor Siemian QB
7 Taurean Nixon DB
7 Josh Furman DB



Some high end hits, some high end whiffs, some diamonds in the rough too...from everyone, and these are the big name GM's. When i get time i'm going to post some real shitty drafts spanning the last fours years.
I'll take Snead, thank you very much

Your opinions are valid and appreciated.

 

[Rainram]

I have no problem with Snead at all. I like not only the picks brought in, but I like the other moves he's made (i.e. the Mark Barron trade), the maneuvering he does on draft day, etc.

Solid GM in my book!

 

[FrankenRam]

Does not Fisher have final say on all personnel moves....draft, trade, whatever.(?) Granted, LS has done a very good job of finding the talent, I'm just not sure he deserves all the credit.

 

[RaminExile]

I love Sneads drafting. He identifies the guys he wants and manipulates the draft board by trading up or down to the position he thinks he can, or has to go to get them, often bagging us more ammunition to get a guy like Barron. He also doesn't overrate some low round draft picks. He understands the likelihood of a guy not being on your roster in 3 years with a 5th, 6th or 7th is enough to make it worth giving up occasionally if there is a guy higher you want more. And at the same time he finds value with late round picks.

Sure there have been a few misses but that's on everyone, scouts, coaching, injuries, the guy himself and it's just the nature of the beast. Every gm in history has had a few misses. He's built us a hard-core of young talent that is being misused by the coaching staff in my opinion.

Also way too early to call Robinson a bust. Quick? We'll see if he can recover but that injury might well have finished him just as he was getting started.

 

[Athos]

D isn't the problem.

But it's either Fisher handicapping Snead or neither one knows how to identify offensive talent outside of generational talent like Gurely or a gadget guy like Tavon.

 

[theramsruleUK]

Everyone has this concept of Snead being a great GM but don't forget he's part of the reason our offence is so bad at the moment.

 

[Ramrasta]

Snead and Fisher have done a good a job as any GM these past few years. Don't fault the food bowl for an empty water bowl. Don't fault the drafting for a lack of excecution.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Schneider slam dunked it in 2012. Look at the junk he's collected in the last 3 years.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think generally they have done a good job rebuilding a roster that was hamstrung by the cap and seriously lacked talent. The focus was to rebuild the D first and they've done that. The other side of the ball has not worked out. The have missed badly with their approach on the O line and QB. That doesn't mean efforts were not made.
I have no major problem with where the roster is over all. Some good moves outside of the draft (Barron, Reynolds) and some not so great ones (Cook, Foles).
The draft ultimately where a team is built and depth is developed.

 

[Psycho_X]

Like others have said, I generally like Snead and he's obviously done a great job on defense. But you can't watch our offense every Sunday and not fault him at least partially on it. We have no idea what say Fisher has in picks and free agents. For instance, it just got released the Fisher pushed hard for the Foles trade and when it didn't transpire quick enough he pushed "his people" to go get him harder. So its hard to judge Snead on either side of the fence. Has he done a good job putting together defensive talent? Has he been one of the reasons we've been awful on offense? Is he just the man giving suggestions while Fisher makes all the final decisions? If I had to guess I'd say it's that last one. So who knows exactly how good Snead is.

I will give the man credit, he definitely knows how to negotiate a trade deal.

 

[Yamahopper]

It can also be graded on the positions not drafted as much as the positions drafted. There's more than one way to approach a draft and get just as much total talent but possible have a better team.
Sneed's is a mixed bag, but so are every others team.

But it's impossible to judge a GM if the HC has final say.The're just stooges to the HC's whims.
Sneed had final say Rams might have a totally different team..

 

[Athos]

Snead and Fisher have done a good a job as any GM these past few years. Don't fault the food bowl for an empty water bowl. Don't fault the drafting for a lack of excecution.

Um... what?

This makes no sense. For defense yes.

But literally everyone of their offensive draft picks has been worthless outside of Gurley and Tavon.

Givens: Gone
Quick: 58 career receptions. Secret, uber "mystery" "got me a hard-on" trip to the Alps...... while passing on the true stud Jeffery.
Pead: Gone
Watkins: Gone
GZ: Getting shaky
DRich: Gone
Austin: Finally emerging in year 3
Bailey: Suspended again. Looks like a worthless pick. And I was a Studman fan.
Jones: Gone
Stacy: Gone
GRob: Still not looking like a LT
Mason: Disappeared, missing meetings, missing team buses.
Gilbert: Gone
Van Dyk: Gone
Rhaney: Eh
Gurley: Stud
Havenstein: Looks like he'll be a solid, if anything, RT.
Brown: Injured. No idea what he could have been at season's end.
Mannion: Eh
Donnal: Was an NFL lightweight.
Sasser: Heart problem. Not their fault.... or was it.
Wichman:

These are their picks on offense.

22 Picks:
9 of them aren't on the team anymore. That's 40% right there.
5 of them are under-performing (I put GZ in here b/c he still misses gimmies and then lets it get to him where he misses again) 22%
2 guys who like like solid players moving forward. 9%
2 Studs. 9%
4 guys I'm not sold on and are probably just JAGs. 18%

So you have 62% of the draft picks as off the team or under-achieving.
18% or 4 guys who like like they'll stick.
and 18% worth of unknowns.

Tell me they've even sniffed being good at drafting offensive guys outside of easy picks like Gurley. Never mind the offensive talent they've passed up. There's a reason our offense sucks shit outside of the QB. They totally ignored the O or make bone-headed picks (Quick and Pead) until they started to get it right, somewhat, in year 4.

I'm thankful for all the D.

And I'm down right pissed and angry at the incompetence of them assembling anything remotely looking like an NFL offense.

 

[tragic891]

IMO Les Snead has done a great/good job overall in drafting.... He has a philosophy and sticks to it... I like that
Also I like how he is not scared to trade or make moves in the offseason..
But I also noticed his flaws in drafting offensive talent ... (ie. Quick,Pead,Robinson(kind of))
Honestly if it isn't a RB im not to confident in the pick

 

[Boston Ram]

Snead has been good. But lets not forget the ammo he has had and the fact they have been drafting at the top of the draft every year. The comps are teams that have drafted at the back end of the draft and the results are similar. If you did a value chart based on where they were drafted that would make for an interesting read.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Um... what?

This makes no sense. For defense yes.

But literally everyone of their offensive draft picks has been worthless outside of Gurley and Tavon.

Givens: Gone
Quick: 58 career receptions. Secret, uber "mystery" "got me a hard-on" trip to the Alps...... while passing on the true stud Jeffery.
Pead: Gone
Watkins: Gone
GZ: Getting shaky
DRich: Gone
Austin: Finally emerging in year 3
Bailey: Suspended again. Looks like a worthless pick. And I was a Studman fan.
Jones: Gone
Stacy: Gone
GRob: Still not looking like a LT
Mason: Disappeared, missing meetings, missing team buses.
Gilbert: Gone
Van Dyk: Gone
Rhaney: Eh
Gurley: Stud
Havenstein: Looks like he'll be a solid, if anything, RT.
Brown: Injured. No idea what he could have been at season's end.
Mannion: Eh
Donnal: Was an NFL lightweight.
Sasser: Heart problem. Not their fault.... or was it.
Wichman:

These are their picks on offense.

22 Picks:
9 of them aren't on the team anymore. That's 40% right there.
5 of them are under-performing (I put GZ in here b/c he still misses gimmies and then lets it get to him where he misses again) 22%
2 guys who like like solid players moving forward. 9%
2 Studs. 9%
4 guys I'm not sold on and are probably just JAGs. 18%

So you have 62% of the draft picks as off the team or under-achieving.
18% or 4 guys who like like they'll stick.
and 18% worth of unknowns.

Tell me they've even sniffed being good at drafting offensive guys outside of easy picks like Gurley. Never mind the offensive talent they've passed up. There's a reason our offense sucks crap outside of the QB. They totally ignored the O or make bone-headed picks (Quick and Pead) until they started to get it right, somewhat, in year 4.

I'm thankful for all the D.

And I'm down right pissed and angry at the incompetence of them assembling anything remotely looking like an NFL offense.

Are you even looking at the other drafts? I think you're missing the point.

 

[tragic891]

Um... what?

This makes no sense. For defense yes.

But literally everyone of their offensive draft picks has been worthless outside of Gurley and Tavon.

Givens: Gone (4th round pick; traded to Baltimore)
Quick: 58 career receptions. Secret, uber "mystery" "got me a hard-on" trip to the Alps...... while passing on the true stud Jeffery.(Terrible Pick)
Pead: Gone (Terrible Pick)
Watkins: Gone (5th Round) (lets be real here, its a 5th round pick)
GZ: Getting shaky (i wouldnt count him as offense, he is clearly a K, but since u are ok/below average at times)
DRich: Gone (7th Round) (lets be real here, its a 7th round pick most don't even make NFL rosters)
Austin: Finally emerging in year 3 (Good Pick)
Bailey: Suspended again. Looks like a worthless pick. And I was a Studman fan. (3rd round) (ok at times.GREAT ST,bad off field decisions)
Jones: Gone (4th Round) (injuried throughout NFL career)
Stacy: Gone (5th Round) (traded to Jets)
GRob: Still not looking like a LT (1st Round/#2 overall) (Underperforming)
Mason: Disappeared, missing meetings, missing team buses. (3rd Round)(Not a Zone Runner,needs to be in MBS)(Notice how last year in MBS he did ok)(JMO)
Gilbert: Gone (6th Round)(lets be real here, its a 6th round pick most don't even make NFL rosters)
Van Dyk: Gone (7th Round)(lets be real here, its a 7th round pick most don't even make NFL rosters)
Rhaney: Eh (7th Round)(lets be real here, its a 7th round pick most don't even make NFL rosters)
Gurley: Stud (GREAT PICK)
Havenstein: Looks like he'll be a solid, if anything, RT. (2nd Round)(Good Pick)
Brown: Injured. No idea what he could have been at season's end.(3rd Round)(Ok/Good Pick)
Mannion: Eh (3rd Round)(Question Mark)
Donnal: Was an NFL lightweight.(4th Round)(underperforming)
Sasser: Heart problem. Not their fault.... or was it. (6th Round)(Retired)
Wichman: (6th Round)(Question Mark)(lets be real here, its a 6th round pick most don't even make NFL rosters)

These are their picks on offense.

22 Picks:
9 of them aren't on the team anymore. That's 40% right there.
5 of them are under-performing (I put GZ in here b/c he still misses gimmies and then lets it get to him where he misses again) 22%
2 guys who like like solid players moving forward. 9%
2 Studs. 9%
4 guys I'm not sold on and are probably just JAGs. 18%

So you have 62% of the draft picks as off the team or under-achieving.
18% or 4 guys who like like they'll stick.
and 18% worth of unknowns.

Tell me they've even sniffed being good at drafting offensive guys outside of easy picks like Gurley. Never mind the offensive talent they've passed up. There's a reason our offense sucks crap outside of the QB. They totally ignored the O or make bone-headed picks (Quick and Pead) until they started to get it right, somewhat, in year 4.

I'm thankful for all the D.

And I'm down right pissed and angry at the incompetence of them assembling anything remotely looking like an NFL offense.

Most of these player are 4th-7th round draft picks....
I agree that Snead needs to draft better on offense...
But your not looking at the full picture...
If u look at all the other GMs compared in this thread. you will also see MANY of them missing on later round offensive players as well..
So when u put it into perspective compared to the other GMs , he is at the same hit rate as other GMs.

 

[Athos]

Are you even looking at the other drafts? I think you're missing the point.

No I'm not because you can't compare when we've had a plethora of premium picks from trades the likes that other teams during that same time period have not. So, like was mentioned, teams are doing about the same with less draft capital. That's kind of sad. Snead sure as FUCK better be AT LEAST at the same hit rate as other teams. Never mind the fact that the Ravens and Packers pick toward the end of the 1st, the Ravens have 3 1sts to our 6, or the SheHags 1st rounder to our 6. We can play this game all day long man.

Sorry. I made my point. Snisher has been a DELETED in four years on offense. Two real players and a bunch of average, if that, across the board.

And you know what?

I'm not of the opinion that going heavy on one side of the ball is a stupid ass way to address a team. Yes. I'm glad to have a stud defense. What does it fucking matter tho when they've on the field 60% of the time and we've averaging 11.6pts/game during loses.

We aren't even COMPETING on offense in the game we've lost. We're shitting the bed.

Beginning to think a dual strategy of addressing offense and defense competently throughout the 4 years would have yielded a more complete team rather than a one-dimensional team of DELETED.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

I love Snead!

 

[Schmitzer]

But literally everyone of their offensive draft picks has been worthless outside of Gurley and Tavon.

Your right, it has been extremely one-sided, but I disagree on Stacey and Mason. Both produced, even if they weren't stars. UDFA list has been amazing.

 

[LesBaker]

I don't know if anyone here has seen the charts that detail success rate round by round in the NFL but this is a fact. It's a crapshoot after the top 10 picks or so. After round 2 if you get a guy who plays a few years in the league and is average that's considered a hit. Get into the 5,6,7 rounds and the expectation is about zero.

People have massively unrealistic expectations, and usually don't understand how hard it is.

I lived most of my life in Cleveland, and one of the radio hosts there was very tight with Ozzie from back to his playing days and always had him on the show when CLE and BAL were playing. Lots of talk about the old days with Kosar and such, but he asked Ozzie a lot of questions about his draft philosophies and how he decided who he was going to finally pick and so on.

Always a good listen.

256 players get drafted and a few hundred, at least, try out at camps. So nearly 600 players. Not many make it past two years. Otherwise the NFL would be completely turning over every roster within a few years in a non stop churn. The reason they don't is that most guys NEVER make it.

If you think Snead isn't doing a good job name 5 guys who are doing better..........I'll take a "top 5" guy at any position down to waterboy on my team. I don't care if it's a guy who cleans the locker room, the guy who makes travel arrangements, the accountant, the HC, the QB, the GM or anyone else. I'll take a top 5 guy all day every day and IMO you cannot name many more GM's that are as good as Snead right now.