Jrry32 Pre-Combine Mock Draft

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jrry32

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I was bored, so I decided to throw out another take on a direction we could head this off-season. There are plenty of players who you've seen before because I like those players.

Cut
OG Rodger Saffold
HB Tre Mason
TE Lance Kendricks
DE Eugene Sims
C Tim Barnes

Re-sign
K Greg Zuerlein - 3 years $7.5 million
HB Benny Cunningham - 3 years $4.5 million
DT Dominique Easley - RFA Tender
DT Louis Trinca-Pasat - ERFA Tender
DE/OLB Matt Longacre - ERFA Tender

Free Agency - Big Money Acquisitions
Ronald Leary LG - 5 years $40 million

We need OL help. There were rumors that Dallas was trying to trade Leary before the season. With the injury to La'El Collins, Leary stepped back into his starting spot. He was also a starter on the dominant 2014 Cowboys OL. Leary is a mauling run blocker who has the versatility to play in either a ZBS or a PBS. He's also a quality pass protector. Either ways, he's a huge upgrade on what we have. Plus, he came up under Aaron Kromer's mentor, Bill Callahan.

Logan Ryan CB - 5 years $40 million

Coming off a strong 2015 season, Ryan got off to a rocky start in 2016 but finished with a bang. Ryan had a dominant second half of the season as the Patriots shifted him between the slot and the boundary. Ryan looked especially good when allowed to play press man coverage in the slot. Ryan is a physical CB who tackles well and has quality ball-skills. He's a versatile player who can play in the slot or outside at CB. He'll offer us a poorer man's version of Chris Harris.

DeSean Jackson WR - 3 years $24 million

Initially, I had some concerns about Jackson coming to LA because of his reported ties to gang members. However, it genuinely seems like McVay and Jackson have a very close relationship. With Jackson being from LA, I think he'd be willing to come here if we match his best offer. He definitely offers us a nice skill-set. He put up 1000+ yards in McVay's offense this year.

Brandon Carr CB - 3 years $22.5 million

Carr said he was pondering retirement after the Cowboys' playoff loss, but I don't believe it for a second. He loves football too much. He was just a guy venting after a tough loss. There are some here who don't like signing him, but I disagree with them. He's a perfect fit for the Aqib Talib role in Wade's scheme. Carr has always been at his best when allowed to get physical at the LOS and battle with bigger WRs. That's exactly how Wade will use him in his scheme.

Free Agency - Cheaper Signings
Ryan Groy C/OG - 4 years $16 million
Markus Wheaton WR - 2 years $8 million
Vance Walker DE/NT - 2 years $4 million
Jordan Mills OT/OG - 2 years $3 million
Sean Lissemore DE/NT - 2 years $2 million
Dwight Freeney OLB - 1 year $1 million

NFL Draft
Round 2 Pick #5 - T.J. Watt OLB Wisconsin

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uEp6aW5bH4

Summary: Watt is probably my favorite prospect in this class. @A.J. Hicks posted a great breakdown of Watt's game in this forum. Watt has only played defense for two years at the college level but is already a very mentally polished prospect. He has great instincts on the field that allow him to find the ball and undermine the blocking scheme. As a pass rusher, Watt uses his length, powerful hands, balance, and elite flexibility to consistently put pressure on the OL across from him. At 6'5" 245, Watt is still growing into his frame and doesn't have a consistent power game yet. However, he has the growth potential to play around 260 and flashes the ability to develop a legitimate power game as he physically matures. This is a kid whose best football is ahead of him.

Round 3 Pick #5 - Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v84iZchLGzo

Summary: Ahkello is one of my favorite under the radar prospects in this draft. He was one of the national leaders in passes defensed in 2016, and his coverage metrics when targeted were off the charts good. Ahkello is 6'2" 195 with outstanding ball-skills, tremendous quickness and hip flexion for his size, and the long speed needed to play outside the numbers in the NFL. Ahkello is one of the most physically talented players in this class. He's a tad raw in terms of technique, but he has gobs of upside at CB. Plus, he's a highly intelligent kid who has aspirations of becoming a doctor. We need more intelligent players. This kid has the potential to be one of the best CBs in the game. My one big complaint with him is that he doesn't like to come up and hit.

Round 4 Pick #5 - Ishmael Zamora WR Baylor

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBmVYWcvEDo

Summary: Ishmael wasn't invited to the Combine because of the video of him beating his dog. He's a crummy person for doing that, but football isn't about putting together a team of choir boys. Declaring after his sophomore year, Zamora's production as a sophomore is nearly identical to Josh Gordon's production as a sophomore at Baylor. A former state champion hurdler, Zamora has the same sort of freakish attributes that made Josh Gordon such an effective NFL WR. Simply put, he's a 6'3" to 6'4" 220+ pound WR who can go up and get the ball, can run away from CBs, will run through tackles, and will come down with the ball in traffic. He's raw coming out of Baylor's system, but he has first round caliber physical talent.

Round 4 Comp Pick - Jonnu Smith TE Florida International

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2bCEmQ5TE

Summary: Jonnu has the potential to be a Jordan Reed-like player in McVay's scheme. At 6'3" 245, Jonnu is undersized for an inline TE. However, he's a willing blocker with the strength to handle himself in the NFL. He won't be Gronkowski, but he won't be a total liability either. Where Jonnu truly shines is as a pass-catcher. Like Jordan Reed, he'll sometimes let passes into his body. However, Jonnu's hip flexibility and quickness make him potentially special. He moves and cuts like a WR. He can break tackles and create yardage after the catch too. He has a very high ceiling as a move TE.

Round 5 Pick #5 - Ejuan Price OLB Pittsburgh

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIqN25AT8Pg

Summary: Price had injury issues early in his career. He's rebounded to post 42.5 TFLs and 24.5 sacks over the past two years. He's a really small guy at 5'11" 255, but he has serious explosiveness and quickness as a pass rusher. He's a really good fit as a 3-4 OLB. He has the athleticism to not be a liability in coverage while possessing the speed to be a dangerous pass rush specialist. He uses his natural leverage and explosive power well while rushing the power. If he can learn how to convert his speed to power, he could be a very dangerous NFL pass rusher. Dwight Freeney is a great mentor for this kid to have.

Round 6 Pick #5 - Jerry Ugokwe OT William & Mary

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZw1IYJK0Z8

Summary: I have not had a chance to evaluate Ugokwe myself, but I like what I've read from Lance Zierlein on him and seen in his interviews. Ugokwe is a 6'7" 315 pound OT with long arms who walked on at William & Mary and ended up starting 42 games. He's reportedly an intelligent, competitive, and coachable player with a mean streak. Zierlein's scouting report makes clear that Ugokwe is very raw but has the tools to develop into a starting OT. From everything I've seen, there are no questions that he has the right attitude to reward a team that is patient with him.

Round 6 Comp Pick - Joshua Holsey CB Auburn

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-MJCkkQ1Bs

Summary: Holsey is another guy on my list of underrated CBs. This is such a deep and talented class that a guy like Holsey can go unnoticed. Holsey had two torn ACLs in his career, so that is a concern with him. However, he has exceptionally quick feet, the speed to run with WRs deep, loose hips, and good ball-skills. He can get a little grabby at times, but as we all know, some CBs use that to their advantage (*cough* Richard Sherman). Holsey is a CB who hides it well and uses it to his advantage. Holsey handled a number of top college WRs, including Mike Williams, during his senior season at Auburn.

Round 7 Pick #5 - Joey Ivie DE Florida

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w496Aftsryg

Summary: Ivie is an underrated player in this class. He's a solid athlete with a relentless motor who has the ability to be a productive rotational interior DL at the NFL level. Ivie uses his hands well and does a nice job of stacking and shedding blocks in the run game. He's athletic enough to disrupt plays in the back-field and pressure QBs in the passing game. Ivie should be able to carve out a career as a rotational DL on an aggressive front like Wade's. He can provide depth at any spot along the 3-4 DL in Wade's scheme.

Projected Starters
QB: Jared Goff
HB: Todd Gurley
FB: Cory Harkey
XWR: Markus Wheaton vs. Ishmael Zamora vs. Mike Thomas
ZWR: DeSean Jackson
SLWR: Tavon Austin
TE: Tyler Higbee
LT: Greg Robinson
LG: Ronald Leary
C: Ryan Groy
RG: Jamon Brown vs. Jordan Mills
RT: Rob Havenstein

LDE: Michael Brockers
NT: Vance Walker
RDE: Aaron Donald
LOLB: T.J. Watt
LILB: Mark Barron
RILB: Alec Ogletree
ROLB: Robert Quinn
LCB: Brandon Carr
RCB: Ahkello Witherspoon
SLCB: Logan Ryan
FS: LaMarcus Joyner
SS: Maurice Alexander

K: Greg Zuerlein
P: Johnny Hekker
LS: Jake McQuaide
KR: Benny Cunningham
PR: Tavon Austin
 
Last edited:

TheDYVKX

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Pretty much a mashup of all your other mock drafts but I like it and would be pretty pleased if it went down like this. Ryan Groy seems like a new one though. Looks like he's a Kromer guy, first I've really heard his name as option.
 

OldSchool

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Very similar to one I'm working on but I will not ever touch Zamora mocked to the Rams. Just won't do it the man is scum. I believe in the 4th I'm going with Travis Rudolph. Also had us signing the Wiz to play Center. Like the mock a lot and this is the type of off season we really need.
 

Memento

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I'd take Darboh any day over Zamora. While he may not have Zamora's upside, Darboh is more likely to reach his as a great number two receiver and isn't total scum like Zamora.

I love the rest of your mock, but as I've stated before, I can't get behind someone like Zamora.
 

LACHAMP46

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Really good work here as well....

I still wanna see what Kromer is going to do with our tackles....Just on paper, it looks like trouble.
 

jrry32

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Very similar to one I'm working on but I will not ever touch Zamora mocked to the Rams. Just won't do it the man is scum. I believe in the 4th I'm going with Travis Rudolph. Also had us signing the Wiz to play Center. Like the mock a lot and this is the type of off season we really need.

Scum or not, we gotta put the best football team on the field. That often means having a few crappy people on the team.

You can't teach what Zamora has. He's as talented as any WR in this draft.
 

Legatron4

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Where's T. Johnson? You really think we're going to have two new outside CBs?
 

Ram65

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Scum or not, we gotta put the best football team on the field. That often means having a few crappy people on the team.

You can't teach what Zamora has. He's as talented as any WR in this draft.

He looks too good for a 4th rounder. Love those 110-meter hurdle guys. He seems to have really quick twitch muscle that allow him to gain YAC. That with size and even had some shifty route moves. I love dogs and hope he changes his ways. Rams need a guy like this. He could contribute right away and become a #1 guy.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/ishmael-zamora?id=2558162
OVERVIEW
Before the 2016 season, a video was released that showed Zamora beating his dog with a belt. A former Baylor student took the video to the Baylor Police Department, and Waco police charged him with misdemeanor animal abuse. He was suspended for three games by the team, cited by police with a fine, completed 40 hours of community service and lost his dog to an animal-friendly home. Zamora is an incredible athlete that excelled late in his high school career on the gridiron and on the track, winning a state championship in the 110-meter hurdles as a junior. He redshirted with the Bears in 2014 and played on occasion during his freshman year (9-132, two TDs receiving; 5-142 on kick returns). Zamora finished second on the team with 63 receptions for 809 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016. He then decided to head to the NFL with Baylor's top receiver, junior KD Cannon.
 

den-the-coach

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but I will not ever touch Zamora mocked to the Rams. Just won't do it the man is scum. I believe in the 4th I'm going with Travis Rudolph. .

I concur about Zamora, I would take him off the board completely. However, I like Ryan Groy at Center and the rest of the draft & free agents. Going with Logan Ryan & Carr and drafting Witherspoon will end up being much cheaper overall than Johnson and the secondary should be better.
 

Boston Ram

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You are all in on Ryan/Carr lol. Not crazy about this but you have a plan and you have thought about it.

Love the draft, would be awesome if it fell this way! In an attempt to nit pick though, I would rather take another stab at the oline with the 4th round comp pick instead of going TE, but again...just nit picking.
 

HitStick

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If Mike Vick could be forgiven for torturing and murdering dogs, Zamora could change his ways and earn respect. If that means not having a dog for the rest of his life, so be it. Put him in horns.
 

PressureD41

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I was bored, so I decided to throw out another take on a direction we could head this off-season. There are plenty of players who you've seen before because I like those players.

Cut
OG Rodger Saffold
HB Tre Mason
TE Lance Kendricks
DE Eugene Sims
C Tim Barnes

Re-sign
K Greg Zuerlein - 3 years $7.5 million
HB Benny Cunningham - 3 years $4.5 million
DT Dominique Easley - RFA Tender
DT Louis Trinca-Pasat - ERFA Tender
DE/OLB Matt Longacre - ERFA Tender

Free Agency - Big Money Acquisitions
Ronald Leary LG - 5 years $40 million

We need OL help. There were rumors that Dallas was trying to trade Leary before the season. With the injury to La'El Collins, Leary stepped back into his starting spot. He was also a starter on the dominant 2014 Cowboys OL. Leary is a mauling run blocker who has the versatility to play in either a ZBS or a PBS. He's also a quality pass protector. Either ways, he's a huge upgrade on what we have. Plus, he came up under Aaron Kromer's mentor, Bill Callahan.

Logan Ryan CB - 5 years $40 million

Coming off a strong 2015 season, Ryan got off to a rocky start in 2016 but finished with a bang. Ryan had a dominant second half of the season as the Patriots shifted him between the slot and the boundary. Ryan looked especially good when allowed to play press man coverage in the slot. Ryan is a physical CB who tackles well and has quality ball-skills. He's a versatile player who can play in the slot or outside at CB. He'll offer us a poorer man's version of Chris Harris.

DeSean Jackson WR - 3 years $24 million

Initially, I had some concerns about Jackson coming to LA because of his reported ties to gang members. However, it genuinely seems like McVay and Jackson have a very close relationship. With Jackson being from LA, I think he'd be willing to come here if we match his best offer. He definitely offers us a nice skill-set. He put up 1000+ yards in McVay's offense this year.

Brandon Carr CB - 3 years $22.5 million

Carr said he was pondering retirement after the Cowboys' playoff loss, but I don't believe it for a second. He loves football too much. He was just a guy venting after a tough loss. There are some here who don't like signing him, but I disagree with them. He's a perfect fit for the Aqib Talib role in Wade's scheme. Carr has always been at his best when allowed to get physical at the LOS and battle with bigger WRs. That's exactly how Wade will use him in his scheme.

Free Agency - Cheaper Signings
Ryan Groy C/OG - 4 years $16 million
Markus Wheaton WR - 2 years $8 million
Vance Walker DE/NT - 2 years $4 million
Jordan Mills OT/OG - 2 years $3 million
Sean Lissemore DE/NT - 2 years $2 million
Dwight Freeney OLB - 1 year $1 million

NFL Draft
Round 2 Pick #5 - T.J. Watt OLB Wisconsin

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uEp6aW5bH4

Summary: Watt is probably my favorite prospect in this class. @A.J. Hicks posted a great breakdown of Watt's game in this forum. Watt has only played defense for two years at the college level but is already a very mentally polished prospect. He has great instincts on the field that allow him to find the ball and undermine the blocking scheme. As a pass rusher, Watt uses his length, powerful hands, balance, and elite flexibility to consistently put pressure on the OL across from him. At 6'5" 245, Watt is still growing into his frame and doesn't have a consistent power game yet. However, he has the growth potential to play around 260 and flashes the ability to develop a legitimate power game as he physically matures. This is a kid whose best football is ahead of him.

Round 3 Pick #5 - Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v84iZchLGzo

Summary: Ahkello is one of my favorite under the radar prospects in this draft. He was one of the national leaders in passes defensed in 2016, and his coverage metrics when targeted were off the charts good. Ahkello is 6'2" 195 with outstanding ball-skills, tremendous quickness and hip flexion for his size, and the long speed needed to play outside the numbers in the NFL. Ahkello is one of the most physically talented players in this class. He's a tad raw in terms of technique, but he has gobs of upside at CB. Plus, he's a highly intelligent kid who has aspirations of becoming a doctor. We need more intelligent players. This kid has the potential to be one of the best CBs in the game. My one big complaint with him is that he doesn't like to come up and hit.

Round 4 Pick #5 - Ishmael Zamora WR Baylor

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBmVYWcvEDo

Summary: Ishmael wasn't invited to the Combine because of the video of him beating his dog. He's a crummy person for doing that, but football isn't about putting together a team of choir boys. Declaring after his sophomore year, Zamora's production as a sophomore is nearly identical to Josh Gordon's production as a sophomore at Baylor. A former state champion hurdler, Zamora has the same sort of freakish attributes that made Josh Gordon such an effective NFL WR. Simply put, he's a 6'3" to 6'4" 220+ pound WR who can go up and get the ball, can run away from CBs, will run through tackles, and will come down with the ball in traffic. He's raw coming out of Baylor's system, but he has first round caliber physical talent.

Round 4 Comp Pick - Jonnu Smith TE Florida International

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2bCEmQ5TE

Summary: Jonnu has the potential to be a Jordan Reed-like player in McVay's scheme. At 6'3" 245, Jonnu is undersized for an inline TE. However, he's a willing blocker with the strength to handle himself in the NFL. He won't be Gronkowski, but he won't be a total liability either. Where Jonnu truly shines is as a pass-catcher. Like Jordan Reed, he'll sometimes let passes into his body. However, Jonnu's hip flexibility and quickness make him potentially special. He moves and cuts like a WR. He can break tackles and create yardage after the catch too. He has a very high ceiling as a move TE.

Round 5 Pick #5 - Ejuan Price OLB Pittsburgh

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIqN25AT8Pg

Summary: Price had injury issues early in his career. He's rebounded to post 42.5 TFLs and 24.5 sacks over the past two years. He's a really small guy at 5'11" 255, but he has serious explosiveness and quickness as a pass rusher. He's a really good fit as a 3-4 OLB. He has the athleticism to not be a liability in coverage while possessing the speed to be a dangerous pass rush specialist. He uses his natural leverage and explosive power well while rushing the power. If he can learn how to convert his speed to power, he could be a very dangerous NFL pass rusher. Dwight Freeney is a great mentor for this kid to have.

Round 6 Pick #5 - Jerry Ugokwe OT William & Mary

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZw1IYJK0Z8

Summary: I have not had a chance to evaluate Ugokwe myself, but I like what I've read from Lance Zierlein on him and seen in his interviews. Ugokwe is a 6'7" 315 pound OT with long arms who walked on at William & Mary and ended up starting 42 games. He's reportedly an intelligent, competitive, and coachable player with a mean streak. Zierlein's scouting report makes clear that Ugokwe is very raw but has the tools to develop into a starting OT. From everything I've seen, there are no questions that he has the right attitude to reward a team that is patient with him.

Round 6 Comp Pick - Joshua Holsey CB Auburn

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-MJCkkQ1Bs

Summary: Holsey is another guy on my list of underrated CBs. This is such a deep and talented class that a guy like Holsey can go unnoticed. Holsey had two torn ACLs in his career, so that is a concern with him. However, he has exceptionally quick feet, the speed to run with WRs deep, loose hips, and good ball-skills. He can get a little grabby at times, but as we all know, some CBs use that to their advantage (*cough* Richard Sherman). Holsey is a CB who hides it well and uses it to his advantage. Holsey handled a number of top college WRs, including Mike Williams, during his senior season at Auburn.

Round 7 Pick #5 - Joey Ivie DE Florida

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w496Aftsryg

Summary: Ivie is an underrated player in this class. He's a solid athlete with a relentless motor who has the ability to be a productive rotational interior DL at the NFL level. Ivie uses his hands well and does a nice job of stacking and shedding blocks in the run game. He's athletic enough to disrupt plays in the back-field and pressure QBs in the passing game. Ivie should be able to carve out a career as a rotational DL on an aggressive front like Wade's. He can provide depth at any spot along the 3-4 DL in Wade's scheme.

Projected Starters
QB: Jared Goff
HB: Todd Gurley
FB: Cory Harkey
XWR: Markus Wheaton vs. Ishmael Zamora vs. Mike Thomas
ZWR: DeSean Jackson
SLWR: Tavon Austin
TE: Tyler Higbee
LT: Greg Robinson
LG: Ronald Leary
C: Ryan Groy
RG: Jamon Brown vs. Jordan Mills
RT: Rob Havenstein

LDE: Michael Brockers
NT: Vance Walker
RDE: Aaron Donald
LOLB: T.J. Watt
LILB: Mark Barron
RILB: Alec Ogletree
ROLB: Robert Quinn
LCB: Brandon Carr
RCB: Ahkello Witherspoon
SLCB: Logan Ryan
FS: LaMarcus Joyner
SS: Maurice Alexander

K: Greg Zuerlein
P: Johnny Hekker
LS: Jake McQuaide
KR: Benny Cunningham
PR: Tavon Austin


Really liked how you addressed the LOG & OC. That's Well spent, truly support how you attacked and fixed our CB & Def in general through FA & the draft. Smart money management imho!
If I had one concern is Austin and D-Jax "to similar of wr skill sets? Prefer Garćon to be honest and I liked the WRs in the draft you targeted.. I think M. Wheaton will end up a FA steal. The Steelers "know" how to draft WRs & I will be hoping in two weeks time we land him. He starts for us from day one. I hope we can get him at a longer contract to be honest.

As much as I been a Tru fan I honestly think we need to manage our cap space to help the overall team this off season and let him walk or meet a fair price in a win-win situation.
Well you really love you some Watt's in Rd 2 lol.
 
Last edited:

dieterbrock

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If Mike Vick could be forgiven for torturing and murdering dogs, Zamora could change his ways and earn respect. If that means not having a dog for the rest of his life, so be it. Put him in horns.
I haven't seen the actual video, nor do I want to. If the Rams do their due diligence and think it was an outlier, than so be it.
I mean, we did recently hire a grown man who physically assaulted a teen aged boy and threatened to kill his whole family.
 

jrry32

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I haven't seen the actual video, nor do I want to. If the Rams do their due diligence and think it was an outlier, than so be it.
I mean, we did recently hire a grown man who physically assaulted a teen aged boy and threatened to kill his whole family.

ALLEGEDLY. ;)
 

DR RAM

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I like your mock, and can't argue with most of the moves.
 

codeman

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I like the mock draft but have some thoughts. I don't love Watt personally, but understand why people like him and I wouldn't complain if they took him. He's still talented and very athletic.
I totally don't understand drafting Zamora, especially so early in the 4th round. From a football perspective he is one of the the most raw WR in the draft. You were complaining about Carlos Henderson being raw, but cmon man Ish is still on the cow. He is physically gifted but hasn't shown really anything besides being able to high point the ball and be strong at the catch point. He has less than 1000 yards in his entire college career.
This leads to his off the field stuff which makes him undraftable. I haven't read a positive thing about him at all. All I've seen is Baylor fans celebrating that they no longer have to cheer for him. There are also rumours that he was going to be kicked off the team/asked to transfer and other schools didn't want him (all be it they are still rumours). It makes no sense with his year on and off the field that he wouldn't try to rehabilitate his image in college.
Its just ridiculous to ask a first time 30 year old head coach to take on someone with such a trouble, especially considering the lack of veteran presence on the team. The offensive leadership is Goff (1 yr) Gurley (2 yrs) and Tavon. The wr room only has Tavon with more than 1 yr of experience. If Saffold and Barnes are released then its even more pronounced. This isn't an Andy Reid locker room. At the 4th round the Rams are pretty much stuck with him. How to do cut a 4th rounder if he does something stupid, which is likely considering his history. I would hesitate to pick him up as a free agent, a 4th round pick is way to large of an investment. We don't have the roster, depth, and locker room to do stuff like this. If you want a raw talented receiver with little college production just take Noah Brown.
 

jrry32

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I totally don't understand drafting Zamora, especially so early in the 4th round. From a football perspective he is one of the the most raw WR in the draft. You were complaining about Carlos Henderson being raw, but cmon man Ish is still on the cow. He is physically gifted but hasn't shown really anything besides being able to high point the ball and be strong at the catch point. He has less than 1000 yards in his entire college career.

First off, let's set things straight. You had Henderson going in Round 2. I didn't complain about Henderson. I asked you if you were willing to spend our top pick on a guy who might not contribute for a few years. If we were talking about a 4th round pick, it would have been a different story. Further, Henderson is a sub-6'0" WR who has reported work ethic concerns and issues with running the right routes in college. When you look at his game in its entirety, he's a massive risk in the 2nd round.

Moving to Zamora, rawness is much less of a problem for Zamora. He's a 6'3"/6'4" 220+ pound WR who is supremely physically gifted and is strong at the catch point (as you stated). It's much easier for that type of player to contribute early in his career than a sub-6'0" WR who isn't supremely physically gifted. Zamora's college production isn't any different from Gordon's. Zamora, physically, resembles Gordon. Gordon transitioned quickly to the NFL because he was a better athlete than everybody else on the field. Zamora has the same sort of potential.

Henderson and Zamora are comparatively raw. The difference is that Zamora has the type of gifts that often allow a WR to transition fairly quickly. Regardless, it's a 4th round pick. I'm not drafting Zamora with the expectation that he starts from Day 1. It would be nice if he can, but I don't expect it. I'm drafting Zamora with the expectation that our coaches develop him into the top 5 WR he has the potential to be.

Is it a risk? Sure. But you aren't getting 1st round talents in Round 4 if they aren't a risk. What's the downside? He ends up being too much of a pain in the ass? If that happens, we cut him.
 

codeman

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First off, let's set things straight. You had Henderson going in Round 2. I didn't complain about Henderson. I asked you if you were willing to spend our top pick on a guy who might not contribute for a few years. If we were talking about a 4th round pick, it would have been a different story. Further, Henderson is a sub-6'0" WR who has reported work ethic concerns and issues with running the right routes in college. When you look at his game in its entirety, he's a massive risk in the 2nd round.

Moving to Zamora, rawness is much less of a problem for Zamora. He's a 6'3"/6'4" 220+ pound WR who is supremely physically gifted and is strong at the catch point (as you stated). It's much easier for that type of player to contribute early in his career than a sub-6'0" WR who isn't supremely physically gifted. Zamora's college production isn't any different from Gordon's. Zamora, physically, resembles Gordon. Gordon transitioned quickly to the NFL because he was a better athlete than everybody else on the field. Zamora has the same sort of potential.

Henderson and Zamora are comparatively raw. The difference is that Zamora has the type of gifts that often allow a WR to transition fairly quickly. Regardless, it's a 4th round pick. I'm not drafting Zamora with the expectation that he starts from Day 1. It would be nice if he can, but I don't expect it. I'm drafting Zamora with the expectation that our coaches develop him into the top 5 WR he has the potential to be.

Is it a risk? Sure. But you aren't getting 1st round talents in Round 4 if they aren't a risk. What's the downside? He ends up being too much of a pain in the ass? If that happens, we cut him.

I think you're underestimating the stress and adjustment of a first time head coach, especially someone who is calling plays. I might feel differently if we had veteran presence like Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh (or if he had a year coaching under his belt) but we don't. The risk isn't necessarily kept only to the draft pick. The locker room seemed pretty weak when Fisher was fired. It would be pretty brave of Mcvay to put that on himself.
You also have to understand the bias people have against him. Its not exactly a hot take. Being in bright lights of LA he's going to have to go even further to repair his image and the team is going to have to spend extra resources protecting him because you know there's going to be thousands of PETA people protesting him at every game. I question if he has the maturity to keep it together here and become a professional athlete. His interviews will be pretty interesting I guess. If a team picked him at all it would be because of any emotional maturity he showed, or else there's no way I can see him being drafted.

If you had to value (in terms of a draft pick) Gordon's career arc what would would it be to you. For me 1-2 years of production and then being kicked out of the league isn't enough to spend picks on someone. Its not the same of getting 2 years of production at the end of a contract and being able to resign them (or get a comp pick, or trade them)
 

jrry32

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I think you're underestimating the stress and adjustment of a first time head coach, especially someone who is calling plays. I might feel differently if we had veteran presence like Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh (or if he had a year coaching under his belt) but we don't. The risk isn't necessarily kept only to the draft pick. The locker room seemed pretty weak when Fisher was fired. It would be pretty brave of Mcvay to put that on himself.
You also have to understand the bias people have against him. Its not exactly a hot take. Being in bright lights of LA he's going to have to go even further to repair his image and the team is going to have to spend extra resources protecting him because you know there's going to be thousands of PETA people protesting him at every game. I question if he has the maturity to keep it together here and become a professional athlete. His interviews will be pretty interesting I guess. If a team picked him at all it would be because of any emotional maturity he showed, or else there's no way I can see him being drafted.

If you had to value (in terms of a draft pick) Gordon's career arc what would would it be to you. For me 1-2 years of production and then being kicked out of the league isn't enough to spend picks on someone. Its not the same of getting 2 years of production at the end of a contract and being able to resign them (or get a comp pick, or trade them)

Gordon was kicked off two college teams for his drug problems. Zamora's issues aren't drugs. Mike Vick came back from much worse. If Zamora can play, people will forget about what he did (as long as he doesn't do it again).

Let PETA protest. If McVay can't handle a potential knucklehead in the locker room, he's not the right guy to lead this team.

My mind isn't changing barring worse things coming out on Zamora's character/work habits. I'll take the risk on a player like Zamora in the 4th when I think it's worth it. It's worth it here.