Jrry32 No Tavon Austin Mock - 4/5/2013

[jrry32]

In this mock, I am assuming that Tavon Austin is drafted before Pick #16. So I wanted to throw out a different scenario. I did not try to project trades. Here's what I would do:
NFL Draft
Round 1 Pick #16 - Chance Warmack LG Alabama

Explanation: With no Tavon Austin, this was an easy pick for me. Warmack is an extraordinarily powerful run blocker with polished techique and the ability to do it all. Ideal fit for the PBS we run. Think Alan Faneca.

Round 1 Pick #22 - Jonathan Cyprien FS FIU

Explanation: Cyprien is a very physical safety who plays to the whistle and has a bit of a nasty streak in him. However, what drew me to him is that he seems to be at his best and very comfortable in deep zone coverage. He has excellent range, good ball-skills and gets a great jump on the ball. The best part is that he reads and reacts to the run game extremely quickly from that spot and gets downhill in a hurry. Ready for the shocker here? After doing some more film study on him in the last few days, he's my #1 ranked safety prospect.

Round 2 Pick #16 - Terrance Williams WR Baylor

Explanation: I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm assuming Markus Wheaton is off the board. If he's here, I'd have a hard time not picking him. In this case, I took Williams because he's an explosive vertical threat that works the sideline as well as anyone in this class. He is your ideal Split End. His game would mesh well with Quick and Givens if Quick does develop.

Round 3 Pick #16 - Stedman Bailey WR/RS West Virginia

Explanation: They say when it rains, it pours. Well, it's pouring weapons for Sam Bradford. Bailey is a versatile WR who will take over the slot position but has the skill-set to line-up and be effective on the outside. Also can return kicks and punts. Had one of the best years in NCAA history with 25 TDs receptions in 2012. Savvy route runner that's extraordinarily physical for his size and understands how to go up and get the ball.

Round 4 Pick #16 - Gerald Hodges OLB Penn State

Explanation: Gotta take a LB from LB U. Hodges is an OLB with good athleticism and instincts. Doesn't stand out in any one category but is good at just about everything. Was very productive for PSU. Good size for a LB as well. Think he can be a very solid NFL OLB.

Round 5 Pick #16 - Brennan Williams RT North Carolina

Explanation: Williams stock took a major hit when he suffered a torn labrum near the end of the year. Prior to that, he was being talked about as high as the 2nd. With Saffold's future unsure, Williams give us a talented OT to develop in the mean time.

Round 6 Pick #16 - Zac Stacy HB Vanderbilt

Explanation: Stacy is a small, compact HB who was a very productive HB for Vanderbilt. He was the man that carried their offense. He ran for 1100+ yards and 10+ TDs each of the past 2 years. I'm honestly not sure why he's so underrated at this point as he had one of the strongest combines for a HB and looks good on film. He reminds me of Ahmad Bradshaw.

Round 7 Pick #16 - Branden Smith CB/RS Georgia

Explanation: The knock on Smith has always been that he's more of an athlete than a CB and isn't physical. Georgia has used him at HB and WR in the past to try and get the ball in his hands because he's such an explosive player with great COD skills. We play an off man scheme which is definitely a positive for a guy like Smith. I figured with Tim Walton, Jeff Fisher and Chuck Cecil, why not take a chance on a CB with elite athleticism and see if they can mold him into a great CB? It's a 7th round pick. Might as well aim high.

 

[nighttrain]

like this draft a lot jrry, fllls all our wants
tran

 

[Memento]

This might actually be my favorite mock of yours, man. I love every single one of those players, especially Cyprien and Bailey.

That's a fantastic job you did right there.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

I'd be hoping hunter falls to the rams in the 2nd.

If the rams began the draft with warmack, cyprien and hunter that would be a dream start.

.

 

[Faceplant]

 

[Rabid Ram]

THIS is the kind of draft im looking for love it get wepons but also shores up trenches and builds depth

 

[BatteringRambo]

I see most are adapting to MY want of Cyprien at #22 because he won't be there in the 2nd round. :mrgreen:

I made a thread about him a month ago.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[bluecoconuts]

Solid draft, I would be happy with these players.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Good draft Jrry,love the Stead Bailey pick.
I feel like i'm more concerned over our non-existent return game than others. I get that the rule changes have made a RS less of an importance,but you've got to have SOMEBODY back there that can make a play. Fisher tried a few things last season and the results were piss-poor.

Fisher is a special teams concious guy,so i'd like to believe that he wants to address this.

 

[DR RAM]

I'll just comment on a few things:

I am not in on Warmack @ #16. I don't think he will end up being in the top 3 guards in this draft when all is said and done.

Bailey and Williams are almost the same guys, and they are not very explosive, IMO, but they would both be on the end of being practically game ready. Williams is bigger, Bailey has better body control. I think I like Woods more than both these guys, and a couple others too that may be available. I don't see us doubling up in back to back rounds, but it could happen. I think we will pick a receiver in the first through third, and then one in the sixth or seventh. Too many other needs.

Not sure we would pick another smallish back, doesn't make sense to me.

Your picks are pretty solid, nice job.

 

[jrry32]

I'll just comment on a few things:

I am not in on Warmack @ #16. I don't think he will end up being in the top 3 guards in this draft when all is said and done.

Bailey and Williams are almost the same guys, and they are not very explosive, IMO, but they would both be on the end of being practically game ready. Williams is bigger, Bailey has better body control. I think I like Woods more than both these guys, and a couple others too that may be available. I don't see us doubling up in back to back rounds, but it could happen. I think we will pick a receiver in the first through third, and then one in the sixth or seventh. Too many other needs.

Not sure we would pick another smallish back, doesn't make sense to me.

Your picks are pretty solid, nice job.

Eh, not really. Bailey is a high football IQ WR and savvy route runner that can play in the slot or on the outside. Has the speed to get open deep but makes a lot of his big plays because of his physicality, understanding of how to use his body and ability to track the football.

Williams is an explosive deep threat that spent the entire year taking the top off defenses. Route running is raw but like former teammate Josh Gordon, he can get open deep and he can go up and catch the football. Williams also has elite field awareness and works the sidelines as well as anyone in this class. He's a outside the numbers WR who does his best work on deep routes and sideline routes.

So in the two, you have Bailey who does his best work on shorter routes that allow him to pick-up YAC, in the red-zone, double moves and on post routes. Williams is a WR who excels running 9 routes, comebacks and out routes.

They're pretty different in what they offer. And I like both significantly more than I like Woods.

As for not very explosive, also have to disagree. A guy like Williams doesn't have 15 40+ yard catches in 2012 without being explosive.

This might actually be my favorite mock of yours, man. I love every single one of those players, especially Cyprien and Bailey.

That's a fantastic job you did right there.

Thank you. :yeh:

 

[-X-]

I'll sign off on that draft fo sho.

Too bad it's not going to go down even remotely like that. :boohoo:

 

[DR RAM]

I'll just comment on a few things:

I am not in on Warmack @ #16. I don't think he will end up being in the top 3 guards in this draft when all is said and done.

Bailey and Williams are almost the same guys, and they are not very explosive, IMO, but they would both be on the end of being practically game ready. Williams is bigger, Bailey has better body control. I think I like Woods more than both these guys, and a couple others too that may be available. I don't see us doubling up in back to back rounds, but it could happen. I think we will pick a receiver in the first through third, and then one in the sixth or seventh. Too many other needs.

Not sure we would pick another smallish back, doesn't make sense to me.

Your picks are pretty solid, nice job.

Eh, not really. Bailey is a high football IQ WR and savvy route runner that can play in the slot or on the outside. Has the speed to get open deep but makes a lot of his big plays because of his physicality, understanding of how to use his body and ability to track the football.

Williams is an explosive deep threat that spent the entire year taking the top off defenses. Route running is raw but like former teammate Josh Gordon, he can get open deep and he can go up and catch the football. Williams also has elite field awareness and works the sidelines as well as anyone in this class. He's a outside the numbers WR who does his best work on deep routes and sideline routes.

So in the two, you have Bailey who does his best work on shorter routes that allow him to pick-up YAC, in the red-zone, double moves and on post routes. Williams is a WR who excels running 9 routes, comebacks and out routes.

They're pretty different in what they offer. And I like both significantly more than I like Woods.

As for not very explosive, also have to disagree. A guy like Williams doesn't have 15 40+ yard catches in 2012 without being explosive.

This might actually be my favorite mock of yours, man. I love every single one of those players, especially Cyprien and Bailey.

That's a fantastic job you did right there.

Thank you. :yeh:

I should have been more precise in what I said, my bad. What I meant when I said same guy, I should have said same ceiling. I don't think there is anything special about either player, and they both remind me of average players at best in the NFL. I don't want average. They are not the same receiver though, I agree.

We define explosive differently. Explosive, to me, is not getting open deep, clearly, Williams can do that, but it's not explosion to me, it's long speed. My definition of explosion in a receiver is being able to leap and attack the ball, which is one of Williams weaknesses (32" vert = below average); burst in and out of cuts, another thing Williams isn't good at; quick off the line and 0 - 60 in a beat, Williams is a build up speed guy; power. Williams is also known to bitch when he doesn't get the ball, a quality that I don't like. That being said, I think he's a pretty good receiver, but not the ideal guy for us.

Bailey = I like his toughness and body control, has decent speed. Appears to be a good route runner, but doesn't have great size. I like him in the red zone, for a smaller guy he uses his body well. Is he a bit of a product of the system? Only time will tell that, but of the two guys, I'd take Bailey in the third, who is a much better value, and a better fit, IMO, on our team. I could see him in the slot, or at the Z.

I have more of a problem using our highest 1st on a guard, and then using our 2nd and 3rd on average, IMO, receivers. I don't see the value there. If we like Bailey for instance, get him in the third, and then use a later pick on, like a Conner Vernon. Seems to me that we have wasted so many picks trying to find a receiver in the upper middle rounds, and historically, we don't have much to show for it. Go big or go home. Pick the best guy in the 1st and let her rip.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Who knows... but your first 2 picks could happen. Warmack at 16 - I'm in this guy's camp.

Like BatteringRambo; I love Cyprien.

Its going to be interesting to see the run on WR's. I don't think they start falling until Keenan Allen goes #3 of the group. After that... it's going to be something to watch.

 

[jrry32]

I should have been more precise in what I said, my bad. What I meant when I said same guy, I should have said same ceiling. I don't think there is anything special about either player, and they both remind me of average players at best in the NFL. I don't want average. They are not the same receiver though, I agree.

That's where I disagree. I think both are much more than average WRs.

We define explosive differently. Explosive, to me, is not getting open deep, clearly, Williams can do that, but it's not explosion to me, it's long speed. My definition of explosion in a receiver is being able to leap and attack the ball, which is one of Williams weaknesses (32" vert = below average); burst in and out of cuts, another thing Williams isn't good at; quick off the line and 0 - 60 in a beat, Williams is a build up speed guy; power. Williams is also known to bitch when he doesn't get the ball, a quality that I don't like. That being said, I think he's a pretty good receiver, but not the ideal guy for us.

Dwayne Bowe had a 33 inch vertical. Steve Johnson of the Bills had a 32.5 inch vertical. AJ Green had a 34.5 inch vertical. Jordy Nelson had a 31 inch vertical. Anquan Boldin had a 33.5 inch vertical. Chad Johnson had a 33 inch vertical. Plaxico Burress had a 33 inch vertical. Terrance Williams had a 32.5 inch vertical.

I don't think the vertical is a great method for measuring the ability to go up and get the ball. So much of that is anticipation and the ability to track the ball.

Can Williams do it? Rather than saying yes, I'll just let some video speak for itself:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s</a>

Not a jump ball but look at the catch and toe tap:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s</a>

Bailey = I like his toughness and body control, has decent speed. Appears to be a good route runner, but doesn't have great size. I like him in the red zone, for a smaller guy he uses his body well. Is he a bit of a product of the system? Only time will tell that, but of the two guys, I'd take Bailey in the third, who is a much better value, and a better fit, IMO, on our team. I could see him in the slot, or at the Z.

He's an excellent route runner for a college guy. Sells his routes well with his body and actually understands how to change speeds. Many NFL players don't do that properly.

I have more of a problem using our highest 1st on a guard, and then using our 2nd and 3rd on average, IMO, receivers. I don't see the value there. If we like Bailey for instance, get him in the third, and then use a later pick on, like a Conner Vernon. Seems to me that we have wasted so many picks trying to find a receiver in the upper middle rounds, and historically, we don't have much to show for it. Go big or go home. Pick the best guy in the 1st and let her rip.

Well, in this case, the only WRs who were worth #16 were gone. And I'm not reaching for a pick especially in a WR draft this deep. Warmack is easily the best value with Austin and Patterson gone.

I think, on draft day, it's likely that Austin is there. But I wanted to work a scenario if he's not.

 

[DR RAM]

I should have been more precise in what I said, my bad. What I meant when I said same guy, I should have said same ceiling. I don't think there is anything special about either player, and they both remind me of average players at best in the NFL. I don't want average. They are not the same receiver though, I agree.

That's where I disagree. I think both are much more than average WRs.

We define explosive differently. Explosive, to me, is not getting open deep, clearly, Williams can do that, but it's not explosion to me, it's long speed. My definition of explosion in a receiver is being able to leap and attack the ball, which is one of Williams weaknesses (32" vert = below average); burst in and out of cuts, another thing Williams isn't good at; quick off the line and 0 - 60 in a beat, Williams is a build up speed guy; power. Williams is also known to bitch when he doesn't get the ball, a quality that I don't like. That being said, I think he's a pretty good receiver, but not the ideal guy for us.

Dwayne Bowe had a 33 inch vertical. Steve Johnson of the Bills had a 32.5 inch vertical. AJ Green had a 34.5 inch vertical. Jordy Nelson had a 31 inch vertical. Anquan Boldin had a 33.5 inch vertical. Chad Johnson had a 33 inch vertical. Plaxico Burress had a 33 inch vertical. Terrance Williams had a 32.5 inch vertical.

I don't think the vertical is a great method for measuring the ability to go up and get the ball. So much of that is anticipation and the ability to track the ball.

Can Williams do it? Rather than saying yes, I'll just let some video speak for itself:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s</a>

Not a jump ball but look at the catch and toe tap:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s</a>

Bailey = I like his toughness and body control, has decent speed. Appears to be a good route runner, but doesn't have great size. I like him in the red zone, for a smaller guy he uses his body well. Is he a bit of a product of the system? Only time will tell that, but of the two guys, I'd take Bailey in the third, who is a much better value, and a better fit, IMO, on our team. I could see him in the slot, or at the Z.

He's an excellent route runner for a college guy. Sells his routes well with his body and actually understands how to change speeds. Many NFL players don't do that properly.

I have more of a problem using our highest 1st on a guard, and then using our 2nd and 3rd on average, IMO, receivers. I don't see the value there. If we like Bailey for instance, get him in the third, and then use a later pick on, like a Conner Vernon. Seems to me that we have wasted so many picks trying to find a receiver in the upper middle rounds, and historically, we don't have much to show for it. Go big or go home. Pick the best guy in the 1st and let her rip.

Well, in this case, the only WRs who were worth #16 were gone. And I'm not reaching for a pick especially in a WR draft this deep. Warmack is easily the best value with Austin and Patterson gone.

I think, on draft day, it's likely that Austin is there. But I wanted to work a scenario if he's not.

Clearly you didn't just get that the vertical was the only thing I was saying. If that's all you got out of it, fine. I'll leave it, but that is not all of what I listed, and explosion is seen on tape. He doesn't pop off the screen for me, not like some other prospects.

I've watched all the available tape on these players. I watched these again, out of respect. They have highlight plays, I already admitted that I thought they were good players, so I'd rather not argue against myself or you here. The question to me is value and getting better as a team. I don't think Williams beats out Givens. I think Bailey fits, and I like him, I stated that already. I agree on that he has outstanding awareness and body control, maybe even elite.

I wouldn't reach for a WR in the first either, but I think a good one will be available at #16 or #22. If one isn't then I'd look to the 2nd round, but Williams wouldn't even be close to being the top guy available in the 2nd in my book. If I HAD to settle for Williams, I'd much rather have Bailey in the third, or maybe a guy like Stills, or King maybe even in the 4th. I like Wheaton better than both, as you do.

I think we will have to just agree to disagree on your strategy, and what we both think of explosive. I tried to define it, but really, it is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. I think that Brian Quick is explosive in the way that T.O., and Boldin are explosive.

I will completely, but respectfully disagree that Warmack will be the best value on the board at #16. He's not my #1 guard, and honestly, I would pick Fluker over him, and add some flexibility, size, and motor, plus he could be had at #22. Do you see the logic and value to that reasoning?

What I am craving that this team has been missing for as long as I can remember is a true #1 receiver. I'm with you, I don't want to reach for one, but how much of a reach is Hunter at #22, or can he even be had somewhere in the 2nd?

If you'd rather that I don't comment on your mocks, or just give you props for the players that I do like for the team, that's cool, I can do that, just let me know. No hard feelings for my part, nor did I take offense for anything that you stated, but I'd rather you take my points as a whole, and not pluck a small part of my point, or definition out of context.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I should have been more precise in what I said, my bad. What I meant when I said same guy, I should have said same ceiling. I don't think there is anything special about either player, and they both remind me of average players at best in the NFL. I don't want average. They are not the same receiver though, I agree.

That's where I disagree. I think both are much more than average WRs.

We define explosive differently. Explosive, to me, is not getting open deep, clearly, Williams can do that, but it's not explosion to me, it's long speed. My definition of explosion in a receiver is being able to leap and attack the ball, which is one of Williams weaknesses (32" vert = below average); burst in and out of cuts, another thing Williams isn't good at; quick off the line and 0 - 60 in a beat, Williams is a build up speed guy; power. Williams is also known to bitch when he doesn't get the ball, a quality that I don't like. That being said, I think he's a pretty good receiver, but not the ideal guy for us.

Dwayne Bowe had a 33 inch vertical. Steve Johnson of the Bills had a 32.5 inch vertical. AJ Green had a 34.5 inch vertical. Jordy Nelson had a 31 inch vertical. Anquan Boldin had a 33.5 inch vertical. Chad Johnson had a 33 inch vertical. Plaxico Burress had a 33 inch vertical. Terrance Williams had a 32.5 inch vertical.

I don't think the vertical is a great method for measuring the ability to go up and get the ball. So much of that is anticipation and the ability to track the ball.

Can Williams do it? Rather than saying yes, I'll just let some video speak for itself:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqGTNWQ_q8#t=01m48s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=00m02s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=03m41s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YJfv6I7ZfA#t=04m13s</a>
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=02m32s</a>

Not a jump ball but look at the catch and toe tap:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YTpFB0dKtQ#t=03m03s</a>

Bailey = I like his toughness and body control, has decent speed. Appears to be a good route runner, but doesn't have great size. I like him in the red zone, for a smaller guy he uses his body well. Is he a bit of a product of the system? Only time will tell that, but of the two guys, I'd take Bailey in the third, who is a much better value, and a better fit, IMO, on our team. I could see him in the slot, or at the Z.

He's an excellent route runner for a college guy. Sells his routes well with his body and actually understands how to change speeds. Many NFL players don't do that properly.

I have more of a problem using our highest 1st on a guard, and then using our 2nd and 3rd on average, IMO, receivers. I don't see the value there. If we like Bailey for instance, get him in the third, and then use a later pick on, like a Conner Vernon. Seems to me that we have wasted so many picks trying to find a receiver in the upper middle rounds, and historically, we don't have much to show for it. Go big or go home. Pick the best guy in the 1st and let her rip.

Well, in this case, the only WRs who were worth #16 were gone. And I'm not reaching for a pick especially in a WR draft this deep. Warmack is easily the best value with Austin and Patterson gone.

I think, on draft day, it's likely that Austin is there. But I wanted to work a scenario if he's not.

Clearly you didn't just get that the vertical was the only thing I was saying. If that's all you got out of it, fine. I'll leave it, but that is not all of what I listed, and explosion is seen on tape. He doesn't pop off the screen for me, not like some other prospects.

I've watched all the available tape on these players. I watched these again, out of respect. They have highlight plays, I already admitted that I thought they were good players, so I'd rather not argue against myself or you here. The question to me is value and getting better as a team. I don't think Williams beats out Givens. I think Bailey fits, and I like him, I stated that already. I agree on that he has outstanding awareness and body control, maybe even elite.

I wouldn't reach for a WR in the first either, but I think a good one will be available at #16 or #22. If one isn't then I'd look to the 2nd round, but Williams wouldn't even be close to being the top guy available in the 2nd in my book. If I HAD to settle for Williams, I'd much rather have Bailey in the third, or maybe a guy like Stills, or King maybe even in the 4th. I like Wheaton better than both, as you do.

I think we will have to just agree to disagree on your strategy, and what we both think of explosive. I tried to define it, but really, it is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. I think that Brian Quick is explosive in the way that T.O., and Boldin are explosive.

I will completely, but respectfully disagree that Warmack will be the best value on the board at #16. He's not my #1 guard, and honestly, I would pick Fluker over him, and add some flexibility, size, and motor, plus he could be had at #22. Do you see the logic and value to that reasoning?

What I am craving that this team has been missing for as long as I can remember is a true #1 receiver. I'm with you, I don't want to reach for one, but how much of a reach is Hunter at #22, or can he even be had somewhere in the 2nd?

If you'd rather that I don't comment on your mocks, or just give you props for the players that I do like for the team, that's cool, I can do that, just let me know. No hard feelings for my part, nor did I take offense for anything that you stated, but I'd rather you take my points as a whole, and not pluck a small part of my point, or definition out of context.

Good stuff DR.



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[jrry32]

Clearly you didn't just get that the vertical was the only thing I was saying. If that's all you got out of it, fine. I'll leave it, but that is not all of what I listed, and explosion is seen on tape. He doesn't pop off the screen for me, not like some other prospects.

I did. I just didn't think the vertical jump is a perfect measurement and went about making a point that despite his vertical, he can go up and get it...and then showed other WRs who can do the same with underwhelming verticals.

I've watched all the available tape on these players. I watched these again, out of respect. They have highlight plays, I already admitted that I thought they were good players, so I'd rather not argue against myself or you here. The question to me is value and getting better as a team. I don't think Williams beats out Givens. I think Bailey fits, and I like him, I stated that already. I agree on that he has outstanding awareness and body control, maybe even elite.

I don't see any rookie we take beating out Givens. It's Quick's spot that is up for grabs.

I will completely, but respectfully disagree that Warmack will be the best value on the board at #16. He's not my #1 guard, and honestly, I would pick Fluker over him, and add some flexibility, size, and motor, plus he could be had at #22. Do you see the logic and value to that reasoning?

Well, that's where the issue lies. Warmack is far and away my #1 OG. IMO, Fluker is best off moving inside but I would not take him at #16 or #22. Warmack is better OL by a decent margin in my book. His technique and awareness are far ahead of Fluker. And I like him more than Cooper as well.

What I am craving that this team has been missing for as long as I can remember is a true #1 receiver. I'm with you, I don't want to reach for one, but how much of a reach is Hunter at #22, or can he even be had somewhere in the 2nd?

I want a #1 WR as well but I have a philosophy and I stick to it.

If you'd rather that I don't comment on your mocks, or just give you props for the players that I do like for the team, that's cool, I can do that, just let me know. No hard feelings for my part, nor did I take offense for anything that you stated, but I'd rather you take my points as a whole, and not pluck a small part of my point, or definition out of context.

It's up to you. I have no issues with you commenting or with you disagreeing. Just like I hope that you have no issues with me defending the picks I made. I make these mocks for discussion...not for approval.

 

[DR RAM]

Clearly you didn't just get that the vertical was the only thing I was saying. If that's all you got out of it, fine. I'll leave it, but that is not all of what I listed, and explosion is seen on tape. He doesn't pop off the screen for me, not like some other prospects.

I did. I just didn't think the vertical jump is a perfect measurement and went about making a point that despite his vertical, he can go up and get it...and then showed other WRs who can do the same with underwhelming verticals.

I've watched all the available tape on these players. I watched these again, out of respect. They have highlight plays, I already admitted that I thought they were good players, so I'd rather not argue against myself or you here. The question to me is value and getting better as a team. I don't think Williams beats out Givens. I think Bailey fits, and I like him, I stated that already. I agree on that he has outstanding awareness and body control, maybe even elite.

I don't see any rookie we take beating out Givens. It's Quick's spot that is up for grabs.

I will completely, but respectfully disagree that Warmack will be the best value on the board at #16. He's not my #1 guard, and honestly, I would pick Fluker over him, and add some flexibility, size, and motor, plus he could be had at #22. Do you see the logic and value to that reasoning?

Well, that's where the issue lies. Warmack is far and away my #1 OG. IMO, Fluker is best off moving inside but I would not take him at #16 or #22. Warmack is better OL by a decent margin in my book. His technique and awareness are far ahead of Fluker. And I like him more than Cooper as well.

What I am craving that this team has been missing for as long as I can remember is a true #1 receiver. I'm with you, I don't want to reach for one, but how much of a reach is Hunter at #22, or can he even be had somewhere in the 2nd?

I want a #1 WR as well but I have a philosophy and I stick to it.

If you'd rather that I don't comment on your mocks, or just give you props for the players that I do like for the team, that's cool, I can do that, just let me know. No hard feelings for my part, nor did I take offense for anything that you stated, but I'd rather you take my points as a whole, and not pluck a small part of my point, or definition out of context.

It's up to you. I have no issues with you commenting or with you disagreeing. Just like I hope that you have no issues with me defending the picks I made. I make these mocks for discussion...not for approval.

I don't think vertical is the perfect measurement either, nor did I say it was. No argument there, not really sure why we are still discussing it, completely taken out of context, but it will stop here on my part. In fact, it's a win for you. I will retract it completely.

Well, that's where the issue lies. Warmack is far and away my #1 OG. IMO, Fluker is best off moving inside but I would not take him at #16 or #22. Warmack is better OL by a decent margin in my book. His technique and awareness are far ahead of Fluker. And I like him more than Cooper as well.

I respect your opinion on Warmack, just don't share it. Fluker is a bigger ball of clay in my book, but Cooper is my favorite guard in this draft. I really like Warford as well.

I want a #1 WR as well but I have a philosophy and I stick to it.

I don't see any rookie we take beating out Givens. It's Quick's spot that is up for grabs.

I understand your not wanting to reach on a WR, but you're willing take a couple 2nd tier guys with two high draft picks to compete for a position with a guy that a high draft pick was used on just last year? That's 3 high draft picks for one position if my fingers are working correctly. Wouldn't you rather go get your guy, or even trade down and get your guy? Or do you think Williams is THAT guy? If that's the case, I understand your logic completely.

 

[jrry32]

I understand your not wanting to reach on a WR, but you're willing take a couple 2nd tier guys with two high draft picks to compete for a position with a guy that a high draft pick was used on just last year? That's 3 high draft picks for one position if my fingers are working correctly. Wouldn't you rather go get your guy, or even trade down and get your guy? Or do you think Williams is THAT guy? If that's the case, I understand your logic completely.

He can be. I'm not really that stuck on the Williams pick. I like him but it's not make or break. Just thought I'd defend my logic. I'd be just as happy with Da'Rick Rogers there(I'm just afraid of his mental make-up and don't have the ability to ease those fears). Would be more happy with Hunter or Wheaton but I had both as off the board.