John Clayton (slam's McDaniels)

[Stranger]

About 8mins into the interview with Bernie, Clayton kinda slams Josh, when comparing him to Schottenheimer, for his inability to tailor the offense to the talent last year with the Rams

John Clayton - Wednesday, January 25, 2012
ESPN Senior NFL Writer John Clayton

[mp3]http://icestream.dev-cms.com:8000/stl/2012/01/01252012104310.mp3[/mp3]

 

[Angry Ram]

Yeah I and others said the same thing. If there was 1 change, it would've been McDaniels. Never adjusted, no designed TE plays (what it seemed like), all it was throw after throw to Lloyd. Then a shotgun or wildcat play on 3rd down. WTF.

 

[Yamahopper]

Now that he's gone is doesn't matter, but when he was in NE before they never featured the TE the way they do now. He didn't use them in Den. or here.
Will he use them now in NE.? or will he be forced to adapt his ways?

 

[DR RAM]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

 

[RamFan503]

Yeah - I was more than disappointed by McDaniels here. So.... Belicheat is still pissed at Spags for his defense kicking their ass in the Superbowl, gets McD to sign and intentionally tank the Rams and simultaneously destroy Spags career as HC in a back room deal that they will hire him as their new OC the following year. Whadya think? Love a good conspiracy theory. Sad thing is that I wouldn't even put it past that jackass in NE.

 

[-X-]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

 

[DR RAM]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

Because of injuries, we had to rely on too many rookies. Big Mike and Kendricks were basically hurt all year. The new coaching staff keeps bringing up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't care who our OC was last year, it would have been impossible to field a decent offense.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

Because of injuries, we had to rely on too many rookies. Big Mike and Kendricks were basically hurt all year. The new coaching staff keeps bringing up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't care who our OC was last year, it would have been impossible to field a decent offense.

He was relying on rookies and 2nd year players from the start--and had them playing like under-confident stuttering kids who didn't know what they were doing.

That's on him.

Shurmur, meanwhile, had almost all of the same guys playing within themselves and doing what they COULD do.

Difference was night and day, though when it comes to just mad genius Xs and Os you would take McD over PS.

When it came to making plays with WHO YOU HAVE and especially with young guys, PS had a feel for his players, McD didn't.

....

 

[DR RAM]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

Because of injuries, we had to rely on too many rookies. Big Mike and Kendricks were basically hurt all year. The new coaching staff keeps bringing up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't care who our OC was last year, it would have been impossible to field a decent offense.

He was relying on rookies and 2nd year players from the start--and had them playing like under-confident stuttering kids who didn't know what they were doing.

That's on him.

Shurmur, meanwhile, had almost all of the same guys playing within themselves and doing what they COULD do.

Difference was night and day, though when it comes to just mad genius Xs and Os you would take McD over PS.

When it came to making plays with WHO YOU HAVE and especially with young guys, PS had a feel for his players, McD didn't.

....

Not true.

 

[-X-]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

Because of injuries, we had to rely on too many rookies. Big Mike and Kendricks were basically hurt all year. The new coaching staff keeps bringing up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't care who our OC was last year, it would have been impossible to field a decent offense.

Injuries did play a big part on the offensive line. I'll give you that. But there was a very discernible difference between what Shurmur did and what McDaniels did. We can point to execution being a problem with some of the RIDICULOUS playcalling McD came up with, but that's only a half-truth. You really just don't dial up plays that rookies and 2nd year players are relied upon to execute. Most of those guys were just getting acclimated with the NFL and the speed of this game. Add onto that the necessary burden of trying to absorb a complex system, and almost no time to put the reps into practice to the point that it became second nature, and the whole thing was doomed to failure. McD was handicapped for sure, but he is absolutely responsible for the lack of offense we experienced early on.

 

[DR RAM]

Sorry to say this, but we didn't have any tight ends.

True. Certainly not to the extent that's needed for his type of offense. And most definitely not rookies. All in all it was a bad hire. Maybe if the Rams had established veteran talent and leadership, McDaniels could have had this offense flying all over the field. We may never know if it was a lack of talent or a lack of flexibility on his part. All we know is, it failed oh so horribly. Just epic bad.

Because of injuries, we had to rely on too many rookies. Big Mike and Kendricks were basically hurt all year. The new coaching staff keeps bringing up trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't care who our OC was last year, it would have been impossible to field a decent offense.

Injuries did play a big part on the offensive line. I'll give you that. But there was a very discernible difference between what Shurmur did and what McDaniels did. We can point to execution being a problem with some of the RIDICULOUS playcalling McD came up with, but that's only a half-truth. You really just don't dial up plays that rookies and 2nd year players are relied upon to execute. Most of those guys were just getting acclimated with the NFL and the speed of this game. Add onto that the necessary burden of trying to absorb a complex system, and almost no time to put the reps into practice to the point that it became second nature, and the whole thing was doomed to failure. McD was handicapped for sure, but he is absolutely responsible for the lack of offense we experienced early on.

Shurmer had an offensive line and Danny Amendola, amongst a lot of other things. Keep on bashing him if you want, the objective truth is that McD had a shit hand to deal with, and that hand changed weekly, but was NEVER a good hand. I just don't think you truly understand how game planning works and what happens when you lose pieces to play with. The Rams must have known this, because he was the only coach that they attempted to keep. I don't even like McDaniel's. Shurmer? who blew it up in Cleveland BTW. Shurmer would not have done better, IMO, although we will never know that as fact.

 

[steferfootball]

If you watch the first month of the season, you'll notice that McD did try to use Kendricks, and had success getting him open....it just happened that he can't catch.

In addition Ben Graham had like a 60 catch with him at one point.

 

[DR RAM]

If you watch the first month of the season, you'll notice that McD did try to use Kendricks, and had success getting him open....it just happened that he can't catch.

In addition Ben Graham had like a 60 catch with him at one point.

Yeah, but it's his fault that Kendricks couldn't catch it, or that he was the only healthy TE on the roster at the time.

 

[-X-]

Shurmer had an offensive line and Danny Amendola, amongst a lot of other things. Keep on bashing him if you want, the objective truth is that McD had a shit hand to deal with, and that hand changed weekly, but was NEVER a good hand. I just don't think you truly understand how game planning works and what happens when you lose pieces to play with. The Rams must have known this, because he was the only coach that they attempted to keep. I don't even like McDaniel's. Shurmer? who blew it up in Cleveland BTW. Shurmer would not have done better, IMO, although we will never know that as fact.

Easy there, Cowboy. Nobody's bashing anyone, and I'm aware of how game-planning works. At least to the extent of personal experience, but certainly not at this level. Nobody on this board is fully aware of that. In order to determine if a coach - any coach - is doing a satisfactory job at this level, you kind of have to lean on analysts who have studied and/or played in the NFL. And there were no shortage of those (people) who were perplexed by some of the things Josh was trying to accomplish or some of the things he was calling in. Injuries can account for a great many things, no doubt. But how does it reconcile a redzone deficiency when the rest of the game they're moving the ball (albeit inconsistently) between the 20's?

And yeah, I know losing Amendola in the first game (and Jackson) hurt a lot. That's why I'm not hanging EVERYTHING on McDaniels. I've already pointed that out countless times, and it covered a multitude of sins. What I think is, is that the rookies were dropping so many damn balls because they were still trying to get a grasp on playing in the NFL while concentrating on memorizing the plays and running correct routes (sight adjustments included). Lloyd said as much in an interview when he was asked about the struggles on offense too. Said it was very complicated. Never said it was scaled way back or was a simplified version of a complicated scheme. He only said it takes a while to get the hang of it, and these guys weren't ready for it.

So I guess what you're saying is he did as good as he could with what he was dealt, and there was nothing he could do to simplify things. I think what a few people have in their minds (fresh in their minds) is him going 5 wide against one of the better defensive fronts in the NFC, while leaving a street free agent in to protect the blind side with no support and the star RB lined up 10 yards off the ball (to the outside). That's an example (IMO) of a coordinator who likes what things look like in theory and in practice, and bears little resemblance of a coordinator who has a handle on what his personnel is truly capable of executing.

Again...... I.M.O.

 

[superfan24]

Yeah - I was more than disappointed by McDaniels here. So.... Belicheat is still pissed at Spags for his defense kicking their ass in the Superbowl, gets McD to sign and intentionally tank the Rams and simultaneously destroy Spags career as HC in a back room deal that they will hire him as their new OC the following year. Whadya think? Love a good conspiracy theory. Sad thing is that I wouldn't even put it past that jackass in NE.

Wouldn't be surprised at all lol. This only fuckin fuels my hate after I was not a fan of bringing McD in because of his O and the fact that I didn't like him before. Now he goes back to NE during the playoffs. Freak him and freak the cheaters.

 

[DR RAM]

Shurmer had an offensive line and Danny Amendola, amongst a lot of other things. Keep on bashing him if you want, the objective truth is that McD had a shit hand to deal with, and that hand changed weekly, but was NEVER a good hand. I just don't think you truly understand how game planning works and what happens when you lose pieces to play with. The Rams must have known this, because he was the only coach that they attempted to keep. I don't even like McDaniel's. Shurmer? who blew it up in Cleveland BTW. Shurmer would not have done better, IMO, although we will never know that as fact.

Easy there, Cowboy. Nobody's bashing anyone, and I'm aware of how game-planning works. At least to the extent of personal experience, but certainly not at this level. Nobody on this board is fully aware of that. In order to determine if a coach - any coach - is doing a satisfactory job at this level, you kind of have to lean on analysts who have studied and/or played in the NFL. And there were no shortage of those (people) who were perplexed by some of the things Josh was trying to accomplish or some of the things he was calling in. Injuries can account for a great many things, no doubt. But how does it reconcile a redzone deficiency when the rest of the game they're moving the ball (albeit inconsistently) between the 20's?

And yeah, I know losing Amendola in the first game (and Jackson) hurt a lot. That's why I'm not hanging EVERYTHING on McDaniels. I've already pointed that out countless times, and it covered a multitude of sins. What I think is, is that the rookies were dropping so many damn balls because they were still trying to get a grasp on playing in the NFL while concentrating on memorizing the plays and running correct routes (sight adjustments included). Lloyd said as much in an interview when he was asked about the struggles on offense too. Said it was very complicated. Never said it was scaled way back or was a simplified version of a complicated scheme. He only said it takes a while to get the hang of it, and these guys weren't ready for it.

So I guess what you're saying is he did as good as he could with what he was dealt, and there was nothing he could do to simplify things. I think what a few people have in their minds (fresh in their minds) is him going 5 wide against one of the better defensive fronts in the NFC, while leaving a street free agent in to protect the blind side with no support and the star RB lined up 10 yards off the ball (to the outside). That's an example (IMO) of a coordinator who likes what things look like in theory and in practice, and bears little resemblance of a coordinator who has a handle on what his personnel is truly capable of executing.

Again...... I.M.O.

I don't think analysts know as much as you and me, and others here who spend a good portion of their lives making the Rams their business. The Rams moved the ball in that formation even though everyone freaked out about it, they moved the ball.

We had at least one idiot jump off sides almost every time that we were in the red zone.

EVERYONE makes mistakes and he made his share.

His job is not to be simple, it is to try to win games, plays were not executed....fuck it.


He's gone now, who cares, let everyone take pot shots at him, I'm out of it.

 

[RamFan503]

Still think my conspiracy theory explains everything in a neat little package.

 

[DR RAM]

Still think my conspiracy theory explains everything in a neat little package.

LOL. I'm a believer now.

 

[Angry Ram]

If you watch the first month of the season, you'll notice that McD did try to use Kendricks, and had success getting him open....it just happened that he can't catch.

In addition Ben Graham had like a 60 catch with him at one point.

Yeah but that doesn't mean he should just throw him from the gameplan.

Case in point, the Green Bay game. Kendricks had that sick stiff arm and galloped for a 45 yard gain. Why wasn't there more of that, or more attempts? He basically had 1 great catch early and some good ones late in games when it was too late.

I get benchings and reduced snaps are supposed to be wake up calls, but they shouldn't be long lasting.

 

[Stranger]

Yeah - I was more than disappointed by McDaniels here. So.... Belicheat is still pissed at Spags for his defense kicking their ass in the Superbowl, gets McD to sign and intentionally tank the Rams and simultaneously destroy Spags career as HC in a back room deal that they will hire him as their new OC the following year. Whadya think? Love a good conspiracy theory. Sad thing is that I wouldn't even put it past that jackass in NE.

OMG, u could knock me over with a feather after reading that. I thought exactly the same, but didn't bother to post it because I thought I might get too much crap for it.

But yeah, that is exactly the type of person Belichick is. It is totally consistent with his personality type - a sociopath.