Hunting/Survival/Shooting/Prepping

[Mackeyser]

I been watching a LOT of Youtube with this migraine going on 3 weeks now and I've become super interested in a few things that I'd like to talk about.

NOTE: No politics or policy will be tolerated in this thread. Guns will be discussed, but ONLY with respect to features, capability towards purpose and function in the field. I don't know if this will become a predominantly gun thread or a general thread with some gun stuff in it, but I asked in advance if it was okay to start this thread and preliminarily, it should be okay. PLEASE, no one screw this up, chief culprit would be lamenting CA/NY/MA/Chicago gun laws. Just don't. That's going to quickly detour into politics/policy and I'm not trying to see this thread die because of some rant about gun laws in those jurisdictions.

Anyway... on to the show.

1) Hunting. I've wanted to hunt for a long time as I feel that responsible hunting is a big benefit especially in areas where apex predators don't exist or have been driven out due to habitat encroachment or livestock preservation. I know in the South that every farmer would love for people to responsibly hunt the wild boar that ruin crops at a fantastic rate. Doesn't hurt that for whatever reason, I HATE wild boar. I can't describe it, but you can bet that if I get into this proper, I'll be hunting them as often as possible and donating the meat which for a single male boar can be hundreds of pounds of meat. Plus, we've discussed moving to Minnesota again, although more of a long term plan, that seems to be something that might happen once we've done some more repairs, upgrades to our current home and paid off some debt.

2) Survival. It just FASCINATES me. I learned several ways to make a rocket stove as well as saw ways to survive all night even in -30 degree weather with NO COVER as long as it's not snowing heavily. I love the idea of camping/surviving in the wilderness for an extended period of time and both the wife and I are sick and tired of being sick and tired. We both camped with our kids when they were in scouts and the wife trained Wood Badge as well as was on an Eagle Scout application committee for years. We'll start slow, but you can bet that once we get into it, we'll really get into it. First step is getting some good boots and getting on the trails and then hikes, then backpack camping. Also will need to start learning much more about trauma first aid, gardening and botany so as to recognize wild plants that are either edible and/or can be used for medicine.

3) Shooting. I've always liked the "hitting a target" aspect of shooting, be it target or responsible hunting. I've grown fascinated with the physics, engineering and skill especially regarding long shots and if all this works out for me, I'll have a really nice .338 Lapua Magnum like the Steyr CL II Carbon with a Nightforce ATACR scope that I both hunt larger game with as well as drive the distance to longer shooting ranges (e.g. 1000 yard ranges). I'd settle for a Remington 700 XCR chambered in a .338 Lapua, but apparently Remington quality has fallen off as of late and there is concern about the reliability of the 700 with the .338 as opposed to the 30-06 or the .308 or even the .300 Win Mag. All the other .338 Lapua rifles are just expensive enough that might as well save up for the Steyr. Anyway, I'm a ways from that (gotta get the wife to the range legit beating me with a Ruger 10-22 before I have a shot at what looks like a $8k+ rifle /w the top of the line scope I want with not the cheapest ammo...

4) Prepping. Wife and I have wanted to put a pantry together for a LONG time, for something like 25 years now, but for various reasons, it wasn't feasible. Now it is. I don't exactly expect an EMP or anything like that, but it would be nice to be able to survive without too much stress if there's an extended gov't shutdown or a natural disaster. I like the idea of being prepared with bug out bags and not being so freaking reliant as I am now...on everything. Part of that is making really smart choices... like in putting together a wilderness survival kit, most of the family would carry "grocery" guns like the Ruger 10/22 Takedown, which breaks down so that it can be kept out of the elements pretty easily.

So... talks with the wife have gone good, she has warmed up to getting the Ruger 10/22 and starting with just target shooting as well as clearing out a room to start a pantry (some repairs to the room are needed) and maybe more importantly, getting outside and getting on the trails so that we can get fit enough to go camping and not feel like we've been through an industrial dryer...

Anyone else, hunt, camp, shoot or prep?

 

[Memento]

Sounds awesome, Mack! Wish that I could do some of those things (I fucking hate wild boars and - especially - the sows), but I'm glad that you're getting to possibly do some of those things.

 

[RamFan503]

I don’t prep much but do all the rest including loading my own rounds so I have specific, virtually identical rounds on every shot for every game animal I hunt. There is a great comfort level when you know your loads don’t deviate. To me it’s a great part of responsible hunting when you do all you can to make sure everything is right for a clean, effective, one shot kill.

 

[RamFan503]

BTW, I hunt pigs a fair amount. It is amazing the damage they can do to crops, other animals, and equipment. Tasty critters too. We generally only shoot the “eaters”. It still decreases the herd while giving us the better meat to eat. Big boars can be a bit nasty tasting and I’m not really that much into trophy hunting. Unlike with deer and elk, bigger boars are tougher and have more gamey flavors to the meat. It’s a wives tail that smaller bucks are more tender and less gamey. I’ve found it the opposite.

 

[Mackeyser]

If I get the Steyr, I'll DEFINITELY get into loading my own rounds. I'm very particular and detail oriented when it comes to stuff like this....and I'm frugal which means that I'm not excited about paying for factory loads even at bulk prices.

First I gotta get my fat ass in shape, get some trail boots and that Ruger 10/22 and then get started.

It's a good time because with it being cool, the mosquitos aren't so bad right now.

 

[RamFan503]

What Steyr are you looking at purchasing?

 

[Memento]

BTW, I hunt pigs a fair amount. It is amazing the damage they can do to crops, other animals, and equipment. Tasty critters too. We generally only shoot the “eaters”. It still decreases the herd while giving us the better meat to eat. Big boars can be a bit nasty tasting and I’m not really that much into trophy hunting. Unlike with deer and elk, bigger boars are tougher and have more gamey flavors to the meat. It’s a wives tail that smaller bucks are more tender and less gamey. I’ve found it the opposite.

Mmm...sounds delicious. I love gamey meat more than your average meat. And if they're ribs? No contest, man.

 

[RamFan503]

Keep in mind that semi-auto pistols can be a bit touchy on hand loads. Research what loads work best for your particular gun and then shoot a lot of them to see which performs best. Don’t just take that research as gospel. I will usually load 10 different variations for a new gun, take it to the range and see which ones the gun likes. Then you can try a few variations of those rounds to fine tune.

Rifles tend to be a bit more forgiving but definitely have their sweet spots. If you’re using the weapon for hunting, you would use different rounds for different game. For example, if I’m hunting deer or pigs with my 300 UM, I load 150 grain rounds in Nosler Accubonds. Elk or bear I use 200 grain of the same. But the powder type is different for each. If I’m hunting smaller game, I use a 125 grain Hornaday V-max.

With hand guns you would generally try to come up with a single round that has good accuracy, allows the gun to perform its best, and has optimal punch with the first two being satisfied.

Interesting subject BTW.

 

[RamFan503]

Mmm...sounds delicious. I love gamey meat more than your average meat. And if they're ribs? No contest, man.

I love everything about game meat except generally its fat. Nothing against fat, but fat on most wild animals can taste somewhat rancid. Bear fat can be really good. Wild pig fat is a mixed bag. Deer and elk fat is almost always nasty. Rule of thumb is to fry some up and taste it before leaving it on your cuts or mixing in for burger or sausage.

 

[Memento]

I love everything about game meat except generally its fat. Nothing against fat, but fat on most wild animals can taste somewhat rancid. Bear fat can be really good. Wild pig fat is a mixed bag. Deer and elk fat is almost always nasty. Rule of thumb is to fry some up and taste it before leaving it on your cuts or mixing in for burger or sausage.

True. I usually cut out the fat on my meat (as I don't like the taste, even with non-gamey meat), so I don't consider it much of a problem.

 

[RamFan503]

True. I usually cut out the fat on my meat (as I don't like the taste, even with non-gamey meat), so I don't consider it much of a problem.

I love fat generally but get really anal on removing it from my game meat. If it’s good, I add it back in when I grind. But part of what makes game meat so great is its health factor. No hormones; Almost no cholesterol with many of them; great flavor if you butcher them properly; very tender if cooked right and - again - butchered properly.

 

[LesBaker]

BTW, I hunt pigs a fair amount.

I did too, when I was single.

Wait.................am I misunderstanding here?

I love fat generally

:neener:

 

[RamFan503]

I did too, when I was single.

Wait.................am I misunderstanding here?



:neener:

Kinda surprised you didn't key in on the anal part.

 

[Mackeyser]

What Steyr are you looking at purchasing?

It'd be the Steyr Carbon CL II chambered for the .338 Lapua Magnum.

With the Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 scope, it runs about $8k. With tax and bipod, probably closer to $8500 and that's before the first shot...

I know, I needed an expensive hobby like I need a goiter the size of a beachball on my neck...

Wouldn't "need" it for hunting some of the bigger game (although nothing is too big for wild boar, imho), but I really want to get into sniping/long distance shooting... presuming I can even do it.

I was a really good shot when I was younger, but who knows what that means now.

 

[bluecoconuts]

338 is way too much rifle if you're looking at a max of about a grand, I typically would push those out past 2 pretty regularly. The ballistics make it easier.

If you're looking for accuracy at a grand the 6.5 Creedmoor would be a better bang for your buck. Not that the 338 can't, but that's a lot more expensive of a round for that distance.

The 6.5 has less stopping power if you want go hunt at those distances, which I personally wouldn't.

Otherwise shooting at distance isn't terribly hard, just get a DOPE book and keep really detailed records. The more details the better. Survival and tracking is harder in my opinion. Cheat sheets in your scope cover make for easier snap shots if needed.

 

[Mackeyser]

Keep in mind that semi-auto pistols can be a bit touchy on hand loads. Research what loads work best for your particular gun and then shoot a lot of them to see which performs best. Don’t just take that research as gospel. I will usually load 10 different variations for a new gun, take it to the range and see which ones the gun likes. Then you can try a few variations of those rounds to fine tune.

Rifles tend to be a bit more forgiving but definitely have their sweet spots. If you’re using the weapon for hunting, you would use different rounds for different game. For example, if I’m hunting deer or pigs with my 300 UM, I load 150 grain rounds in Nosler Accubonds. Elk or bear I use 200 grain of the same. But the powder type is different for each. If I’m hunting smaller game, I use a 125 grain Hornaday V-max.

With hand guns you would generally try to come up with a single round that has good accuracy, allows the gun to perform its best, and has optimal punch with the first two being satisfied.

Interesting subject BTW.

As for factory loads, I'd probably go with the Berger Elite Hunter 300gr round. It has a .814 Ballistic Coefficient and expands well enough to do the damage necessary. For extremely long shots, the 250gr is recommended as apparently the 300gr has issues expanding at extreme distances at lower velocities... but if I'm really firing out so far that the bullet is hitting the target subsonic...well, I'm not really sure I'd be hunting at that distance. I'd like to, but it'll take more than a little while to get up the confidence. And afaik, there aren't a lot of 2k shooting ranges here in FL.

But that's sorta like figuring out what tires I want on my Ferrari at this point. That said, the few things in my life I really focused on, I've been able to get including my house... so, who knows?

As for the pistol, I've held the Glock 17 and it fits my hands perfectly (I have bigger hands so something like the CC Glocks don't interest me). Haven't had the chance to fire it. I know better. The minute I fire it , I'll like it and then I'll be filling out paperwork and laying down the CC.

Shooting, like skiing, doesn't HAVE to be expensive, but even without going all mall ninja on a custom built AR or trying to feed a .50BMG, I already know this is not gonna be cheap.

At least it's not as expensive as model trains...

Oh, did I mention that I'm also salivating over the Mossberg 590A1? Cuz, yeah...

As with everything else, I don't want a lot, but the few things I want, I want to be really nice.

 

[bluecoconuts]

As for the pistol, I've held the Glock 17 and it fits my hands perfectly (I have bigger hands so something like the CC Glocks don't interest me). Haven't had the chance to fire it. I know better. The minute I fire it , I'll like it and then I'll be filling out paperwork and laying down the CC.

Check out the M&P sometime, see how that feels. Same with the Springfield XD and the Sig P320, all are similar, get a feel for what feels best and if you can shoot each one. It's important to get a pistol that not only feels well if your hands but shoots well too. For example, I don't care much for the Springfield XD feel compared to the Glock, but I shoot better with it, even though the take down interferes with my grip.

I'm a big fan of the M&P, personally, it is my favorite striker fired pistol, followed by the P320. The modularity of the 320 is so nice, it's like having several pistols in one. I can make mine a target completion gun, a concealed carry gun, a standard compact ant a standard full size and it's all considered one "gun". Very handy.

 

[Mackeyser]

338 is way too much rifle if you're looking at a max of about a grand, I typically would push those out past 2 pretty regularly. The ballistics make it easier.

If you're looking for accuracy at a grand the 6.5 Creedmoor would be a better bang for your buck. Not that the 338 can't, but that's a lot more expensive of a round for that distance.

The 6.5 has less stopping power if you want go hunt at those distances, which I personally wouldn't.

Otherwise shooting at distance isn't terribly hard, just get a DOPE book and keep really detailed records. The more details the better. Survival and tracking is harder in my opinion. Cheat sheets in your scope cover make for easier snap shots if needed.

Well, as for a hobby, I'd certainly like to see if I could get out to 2k and if I could get my grouping at 1.5 MOA at that distance, I'd be thrilled. I've wanted to shoot at really long distances since I was a kid. Just never had the chance.

I know it's a scale up process. Probably graduate from the Ruger 10/22 to a Remington 700 or a Savage chambered for a .308 Win (not the magnum). Very accessible ammo and lots of variety for different grains and bullet designs, so there are lots of easy options.

I know that there's a disdain of guys who bring a big caliber to the range, be it the .338 LM all the way up to a .50BMG.

I definitely wouldn't be "that guy". I want to be very good at whatever I'm using, not some guy who makes bang at the range....ugh. Throwing rounds down range for the sake of just firing a particular gun isn't remotely the goal. Reminds me of those guys at the driving range who'd pull out a $500+ driver and the ball would go 100 yards forward and 200 yards left due to an unaddressed nasty hook.

The reality is that I'll probably stop at the .308 with the Remington or Savage or whatever. Once I'm actually hunting for a bit, I can decide if I want something more, if I can handle more and if I can afford more.

First time I read about a long shot with a Lapua was in a Robert Ludlum novel and I've been fascinated with it every since and that was in the late 80s, iirc.

But yeah, you're right.

Then again, it's really the economics. If I can afford it, I'll probably buy it just because and if I can't, it's a moot point.

Edit: just want to be clear that it's unlikely that I'd ever try to hunt with the .338 LM. Extended distances greatly increase the chance of simply wounding an animal. Now, maybe if I were looking for a big bull moose or a really big wild boar, I'd want something bigger, but I'd still be close enough to make sure I could be pretty sure of a kill.

 

[Mackeyser]

Check out the M&P sometime, see how that feels. Same with the Springfield XD and the Sig P320, all are similar, get a feel for what feels best and if you can shoot each one. It's important to get a pistol that not only feels well if your hands but shoots well too. For example, I don't care much for the Springfield XD feel compared to the Glock, but I shoot better with it, even though the take down interferes with my grip.

I'm a big fan of the M&P, personally, it is my favorite striker fired pistol, followed by the P320. The modularity of the 320 is so nice, it's like having several pistols in one. I can make mine a target completion gun, a concealed carry gun, a standard compact ant a standard full size and it's all considered one "gun". Very handy.

I'll check it out.

Not nearly as much a fan of pistols as rifles, tho.

I dunno why. They just don't do much for me.

Also, what did you mean, "the survival and tracking is harder"?

 

[bluecoconuts]

Well, as for a hobby, I'd certainly like to see if I could get out to 2k and if I could get my grouping at 1.5 MOA at that distance, I'd be thrilled. I've wanted to shoot at really long distances since I was a kid. Just never had the chance.

It's a lot of fun, very satisfying in my opinion. You'll really have a lot of fun with it, and as you get into reloading and stuff, you'll be able to find the ammo perfect for your rifle that'll help you really reach out.

I know it's a scale up process. Probably graduate from the Ruger 10/22 to a Remington 700 or a Savage chambered for a .308 Win (not the magnum). Very accessible ammo and lots of variety for different grains and bullet designs, so there are lots of easy options.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, the 308 is a great rifle to get into distance shooting, it'll really help you nail in that 5-700 range while you're starting out, and you can get it out to a grand as well, it's perfect to get to the basics. If you're only looking for target shooting, I would say check out the 6.5 when you're thinking about a .308. The ammo is a little more expensive, but should be coming down more as the military begins to adopt more platforms with the round, and the ballistics compared to the 308 are vastly superior. It'll cost you a little bit more, but you'll have more consistent results at a more consistent rate. Make sure that you're paying attention to the stock for your rifle as well, you may want to look into getting chassis systems. They can be expensive, but the cost is very much worth it. McMillan stocks are also a personal favorite of mine, if you want to save a little.

Long distance shooting is, unfortunately, an expensive hobby. Fun though.

First time I read about a long shot with a Lapua was in a Robert Ludlum novel and I've been fascinated with it every since and that was in the late 80s, iirc.

338 is my favorite round, I absolutely loved my 338 in Afghanistan. If you have a chance to get one, I highly recommend it.

Then again, it's really the economics. If I can afford it, I'll probably buy it just because and if I can't, it's a moot point.

Best way to be, just make sure you don't go cheap because you're desperate. When it comes to firearms, buy once cry once is a good saying to live by. Make sure you're getting quality equipment, that includes things like scope rings and glass, bipods, etc.

Not nearly as much a fan of pistols as rifles, tho.

Those are all pistols, unless you're saying you like rifles more than pistols. I'm the same way, I'm more of a rifle guy, I just figured if you were looking at a Glock to get, there are a few other pistols that are similar enough you may like more. Maybe not though, it's good to shop around, I would see a lot of people come to my range with a brand new gun that they hated as soon as they shot it. Unfortunately sometimes salesmen will push a specific model because they get a kick back (gun manufacturers have a program where every gun sold, stores participating will be awarded points to the salesman, and after about 6 months the points can be redeemed for swag, including free high end guns), and someone will get a gun that's not the best fit for what they want.

Also, what did you mean, "the survival and tracking is harder"?

Shooting at distances is difficult, don't get me wrong, and some people just don't really have "it" when it comes to shooting, and therefore can't really go to those distances. Not everyone can be a sniper, obviously.

In my experience though, more people failed out of sniper school from things like stalking or making correct adjustments quick enough vs the actual act of shooting distances. Don't get me wrong, we had plenty of guys fail out behind the rifle as well, but even still often it was because they didn't make the correct adjustments, made a math error, or estimated the distances wrong, or even didn't actually chamber a round and forgot to double check, resulting in a dryfire (which sniper school counts as a "miss"). The stuff like their breathing, trigger pull, sigh alignment, etc was solid though. Since most target shooters aren't rushed (outside of competitions), reaching out at distances shouldn't be near impossible. There are tons of civilian shooters who are better shots than even our best snipers, but the difference is that the sniper can survive, it can track.

Surviving, stalking, tracking movement (be animals or people), staying concealed, leaving no trace, understanding what you can and can't eat, skinning animals, that stuff, all was much harder than getting behind a rifle and shooting in my experience. They're very good skills to have though, and it's really satisfying when it works out (successful stalk, concealment, etc). Takes a lot of time and patience though, lots of practice. Again, really good skills to have, especially if you find yourself in a situation where they may be necessary or come in handy.


That's all just my personal experience though, you may find different things easier or harder.

Again, it's a really fun hobby, and you'll really enjoy it. Shooting is incredibly peaceful to me, as funny as that sounds. I feel very relaxed when I shoot, it's quite zen like. Plus it gives you an excuse to hike into remote areas and get some absolutely amazing views.