Gurley, Stafford and trusting the team

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AvengerRam

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When trust is broken, its hard to get back. In the context of a romantic relationship, some subscribe to the mantra, “once a cheater, always a cheater.”

Perhaps this informs the comments of many fans regarding Matthew Stafford’s elbow.

Apparently, it all goes back to Todd Gurley.

In as we all recall, in late 2018, Gurley’s knee started to have issues. He missed games late in the season and, after a solid performance in the Wild Card game against Dallas, largely disappeared (in favor of retread C.J. Anderson) through the Super Bowl run. The next season, he was ineffective. By 2020, he was a Falcon. Last year, he was no longer playing.

During this ordeal, the team was, to say the least, something less than a fount of information. Indeed, the public statements were generally vague, and seemed calculated to convey a lack of concern and/or optimism, notwithstanding what we saw on the field (or, in New Orleans, on the sideline).

Many felt lied to or, to follow the analogy, “cheated on.”

So now, with Matthew Stafford experiencing elbow soreness/pain and the team again making statements that are a bit vague, is there cause for concern?

Has the “cheating” returned?

I, for one, really don’t see an analogy here. In Gurley’s case, there was a clear injury (ACL tear) that was repaired leaving a knee that, as is often the case, particularly with “bell cow” running backs, wore down. Sure, it happened prematurely, particularly in light of the contract Gurley received, but this is not an unfamiliar story (ask the Giants about Sequan Barkley or the Panthers about Christian McCaffrey, for example).

Stafford, on the other hand, has been exceedingly durable over the years, and has a reputation for playing – and playing very well – in the face of wear, tear, bumps, bruises and pain.

We’ve seen him throw this week. We’ve heard the explanation of his situation. I’m not overly concerned.

But some, including people on at least 3 Rams boards I have seen, have implied that this is another Gurley situation. That we should be worried that we are being “cheated” on again.

Only time will tell, but I’m just not feeling that way. If anything, I wish Sean McVay would say less, as he’s now being quoted out of context by bloggers and other casual commentators. I don’t feel like this is “another Gurley” situation, though, and I don’t think I’m being lied to.

I’m sure everyone hopes I’m right.
 

LARAMSinFeb.

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I like to think McVay and the Rams were "vague" about Gurley because not much could really be known about the situation, until it played out, even past his year in Atlanta. Maybe Todd didn't even know for sure how bad it was, until the proof was in the pudding. In that case the Rams were just being straightforward the entire time. It might not have been something glaringly clear or definitively evaluatable to anyone, and that's how the Rams handled it--just as a gradual realization.
 
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tempests

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I would hope Sean has learned from the Gurley situation.

I'm just taking it in, wanting to see if the Rams management plan makes the difference and helps him get through the season.
 

Merlin

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Well with a guy like Stafford even if it's bad he's gonna play through it and the team will get their 2-3 years from him. But at some point, again if it's bad, it will retire him. Pain can wear anyone down.
 

AvengerRam

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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A6875922-FFAF-4343-9E68-E0BB0095A5ED.png
 

majrleaged

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For me, what really cracks me up, is anybody, fan or media that thinks it is their right to know every last detail about a player's condition. The most important thing to the team is the team's well being. If a lie needs to be said so that other teams don't have something they can use against you, then so be it. McVay is very good about be as candid as he can be, but he isn't going to spill the beans on anything he doesn't think anybody outside the team should know.

The Rams keep things close to the vest. Don't get but hurt about it. To get indignant about being lied to by a coach a team or player, well where the hell have you been all your football life?
 

Loyal

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Before week one, people have to talk about something. Feed the beast, as it were.

The elbow condition is reportedly no worse than it was last year, but they are trying to manage it better this year. Stafford' elbow was magnificent down the stretch, and those 50 yard passes in camp didn't make him seem less able than last year.

Gurley couldn't cut anymore and was obviously not the same guy from Super Bowl 53, onward. You can't say that about Stafford and be believable. The day Stafford retires will be when the current organization is in for a serious rebuild.
 

Kupped

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Yeah, I just try to collect all the information I can and be objective.

And… situations change. Meaning an injury condition can get better… or it can get worse.

I think expecting teams to be 100% transparent is just silly, to be honest.

My Gurley comp has nothing to do with trust of the team or my feelings, just what I consider to be an objective read of the situation.

As I’ve said, when it comes to Stafford’s elbow, I’m not overly concerned, but it ain’t nothing.
 

XXXIVwin

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In my opinion, the Rams have been extremely secretive about injuries in recent years. Not saying it's good or bad-- just an observation.

In my opinion the increased secretiveness started occurring shortly after Belichick and McVay hung out together a lot during one of the off-seasons several years ago, maybe in 2016 or 2017 I think. My theory is that McVay was picking Belichick's brain a bit, and Belichick impressed upon McVay the advantage of being secretive about injuries to the greatest extent possible.

Rams haven't been vague about just Gurley, there have been many others. Off the top of my head:

Akers: we didn't hear until very very late which leg was injured. And extremely late to confirm the type of surgery, even though most of us assumed it was a reconstruction. And of course they were secretive about the "escape clause" leaving open the remote possibility of Akers return.
DWill: initially the Rams said it was a mild injury, then 4 days later they reversed course and put him on IR. Rams never confirmed precisely what kind of injury it was beyond the word "ankle."
Ramsey: I guess this is par for the course, but who here knew about his shoulder problems, the decision to delay surgery, and then the decision to go through with it in June?
Van Jeff: He just had a knee procedure, yet we don't know anything about except it's a "tweak" and a "minor procedure that's different from the last one he had."

Again-- just to be clear-- I'm not "passing judgment" about the Rams' decisions to be vague and circumspect about player injuries. Obviously fans would prefer to know more rather than less. But McVay and the coaching staff clearly think there is a competitive advantage--even if it's a small one-- to release the minimum info allowed by the rules.
 

Faceplant

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For me, what really cracks me up, is anybody, fan or media that thinks it is their right to know every last detail about a player's condition. The most important thing to the team is the team's well being. If a lie needs to be said so that other teams don't have something they can use against you, then so be it. McVay is very good about be as candid as he can be, but he isn't going to spill the beans on anything he doesn't think anybody outside the team should know.

The Rams keep things close to the vest. Don't get but hurt about it. To get indignant about being lied to by a coach a team or player, well where the hell have you been all your football life?
giphy (7).gif
 

snackdaddy

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Gurley's problem was not something structural that could be spotted on a MRI or X-ray. He had a surgically repaired knee that wore down. The team could not pinpoint a specific injury that caused the regression.

Athletically speaking, compared to the average guy he's still an elite athlete. But in the NFL world the knee suffered some sort of degeneration and affected his ability to compete at that level. I don't recall him having any sort of surgery to correct it after he left the Rams. It just wore down on him. For his sake I hope he invested well. I doubt he'll be making any more money as a player.
 
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So Ram

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Gurley's problem was not something structural that could be spotted on a MRI or X-ray. He had a surgically repaired knee that wore down. Athletically speaking, compared to the average guy he's still an elite athlete. But in the NFL world the knee suffered some sort of degeneration and affected his ability to compete at that level. I don't recall him having any sort of surgery to correct it after he left the Rams. It just wore down on him. For his sake I hope he invested well. I doubt he'll be making any more money as a player.

Being the Face in the LA market paid him as well.He was a Free-Thinker.

I just wished that John Sullivan fake holding call never took his 10 yard gain in the SuperBowl. For all the yards he gained as a Ram. Those 10 yards should be in the history books.I’m sure he would have added more yards,a TD, & had won a SuperBowl. Imo

Imo I always thought he shouldn’t have been drafted that early.Snead wasn’t in control? 10 over all with his knee injury? -I was wrong & he was a smart player inside the lines.

Why Rhe Rams paid him when they did was crazy. AD99 holds out twice & was (has)always been the hardest working Ram. They pay Gurley at the end of year 4. Maybe he was The Rams last 1st.rd choice & they still don’t know if you sign a 1st rd pick the player has an option year.
 

TXRams86

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There are two possible scenarios I see playing out here: the Rams are being forthcoming and the elbow is as it was last season, they're just doing their best to manage it better. Or, worst case scenario, the elbow is not doing well and at some point Stafford needs to have surgery. The optimist in me feels like even if surgery is necessary, he'll come back at least close to full strength with significantly less pain.

We don't know what it is, tendonitis or otherwise. We do know that it's causing him some discomfort. To what degree? Only Stafford and the Rams know and that's all we're gonna get.
 

oldnotdead

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I for one am not overly concerned. The driving force is not Stafford. He's a major piece but not irreplaceable. Remember this team went to a Super Bowl with an inferior roster and a tier two QB. The driving force is Snead and McVay. As long as that pair is on top of this team it will always be in the mix for Super Bowls. If Matt flames out in 3 years there will be another QB out there dying to replace him because they know what I'm saying here. Snead will always provide a talented roster. McVay will provide an elite HC. That will always be hugely attractive to the next QB Snead signs.
 

Flint

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This thing has taken off like a wildfire, and it just so happens not much else is going on. Speculation is running rampant and since there doesn’t seem to be a clear diagnosis it’s basically a free for all.
I saw kellerman was saying how the rams have botched the situation and I’m sure he doesn’t know any more than the rest of us. This (story ?) has been on sportscenter seemingly on the hour, which makes it seem even more like there’s something there. I knew his thing had jumped the shark when I read that the Rams should bring in Garapalo just in case.
Seems like either Stafford needs a Tylenol or his arm’s about to fall off, not sure which.
 

Kupped

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Just working for some common ground, @AvengerRam …. Lazy media reacting to this.. amplifying it… suggesting Stafford will miss season opener… suggesting they get Jimmy G as a backup… is all a bunch of bullshit.

I think the fans on this board are discussing the situation in a level-headed manner, and the Rams beat reporters are being responsible.
 

RamFan503

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For me, what really cracks me up, is anybody, fan or media that thinks it is their right to know every last detail about a player's condition. The most important thing to the team is the team's well being. If a lie needs to be said so that other teams don't have something they can use against you, then so be it. McVay is very good about be as candid as he can be, but he isn't going to spill the beans on anything he doesn't think anybody outside the team should know.

The Rams keep things close to the vest. Don't get but hurt about it. To get indignant about being lied to by a coach a team or player, well where the hell have you been all your football life?
This^^^

The idea that the regime owes it to the fans to be completely forthcoming and honest about player health, moves, etc... is mind numbingly naive to me personally. I mean, they should let everyone know everything - right?

Of course we all hope that Stafford is healthy for the coming season. We all hoped that Gurley was fine too. But would knowing one way or the other do any of us any good? Does bitching about some perceived dishonesty make yawl happier?

I just don't get it. It's as if trusting coach speak is more important than what this regime has accomplished on the field.

I get the hand wringing over a possible injury to potentially our most important player. It's natural for us as fans. But the idea that they OWE us the truth or we can't trust them? SMH