Greg Robinson Should Play Guard in Kromer's Scheme

[StealYoGurley]

I know some people on the board want to give Greg Robinson another shot at LT because they think Kroemer will help him play at a higher level. IMO Robinson's many problems and bad habits cannot be fixed in one year with the CBA practice restraints. Kroemer isn't guaranteed more than this season to correct those issues because the Rams probably wont pick up Robinson's 5th year option. Robinson spent the offseason working with LeCharles Bentley a renowned offseason OL tutor to and he couldn't correct G-Rob's issues.

So how do you get the most out of G-Rob in the last year he is guaranteed to be a ram? IMO play to his strengths and move him to guard. One strength of G Rob's game that has translated from Auburn's offense to the NFL is his ability to pull and get to the second level. In addition you put him next to most knowledgeable guy on the OL the center, which will help him stay assignment sound like Garrett Reynolds. Furthermore, he won't be on an island where refs can zone in on his terrible hand use.

Kroemer has always had solid OT play, but the stars on his offensive line groups have always been the guards. In New Orleans he had pro bowlers Jahri Evans and Ben Grubs, he turned a raw prospect Kyle Long into an all pro, and in Buffalo revitalized the career of former Ram Richie Incognito turning him into one of the better guards in the league. What do all Kroemer's pro bowl guards have in common? They are bigger guys who can pull.

I love the run scheme Kroemer ran last year with the Bills. It was a power run game, but the QB was often in shotgun instead of under center. It allowed Tyrod Tayor to play where is most comfortable in the gun and acquiesced with the power scheme that fit LeSean McCoy. IMO this also fits Goff and Gurley perfectly. Goff is clearly more comfortable and more experienced playing in the gun. Gurley IMO is too impatient of a runner to play as much in a zone running scheme like we did last year. Gurley is at his best seeing the hole hitting hard and having a clear idea where the play should go. In a power scheme there is a more defined direction of the run play with the RB following the pulling guard with a fullback or TE leading through the hole. Let the OL and TEs attack the DL and LBs and then good luck to opposing DBs facing Gurley with a head of steam hitting the second level.

You can find some examples of Kroemer's run scheme below. Focus on Richie Incognito the LG because this is the role I imagine Robinson playing in this scheme. Sorry, NFL makes you click an extra link and wont let you start the clip at my time stamp, so I just put the time when the specific play starts underneath the video.


Play 1 (.05 mark): Traditional I formation: Pretty straightforward. LT kicks out the end, Cogs Immediately gets to the second level and walls off Ogletree and Full back blows up Mark Barron springing McCoy free into the secondary where TJ has to make a 1 on 1 tackle

Play 2: Great formation here attacked the Rams smaller LBs. Power run with a FB, but in the pistol formation. Unbalanced line with the RT shifting over to the left side. SLB Forrest is technically in the right spot opposite the TE, but the unbalanced formation means all the beef is attacking smaller WLB Mark Barron. On top of that you have the right guard pulling to the unbalanced side of the formation kicking out the end and the FB leading through the hole. Way too much power for the Rams smaller LBs to handle and the result is a huge run.


Play 3 (1:17 mark): Pistol Power formation once again. Cogs pulls out and seals the edge off of RT allowing McCoy to bust a big outside the tackle run


Play 4 (0:13 mark): Power play out of the shotgun with the full back to left of Tyrod and Lesean to his right. This time the RG pulls to the left and leads through a huge hole along with the FB.


Play 5 (1:05 mark): Another pistol power play. McCoy breaks off a huge run despite facing an 8 man box. RTs blocks down washing the end out of the play, Cogs pulled around and kicked out the 3-4 OLB and the full back leads the play and takes out the LB trying to fill the hole letting McCoy hit the hole at full speed with the secondary chasing


Play 6 (2:57 mark): Great run when the Jags know the Bills are going to run it to run down the clock to end the game on 3rd and long.Single back with another heavy formation with an extra tackle on the right side of the formation. WR comes in orbit motion towards the strong side of the formation. Bills run a quick toss to the opposite side of the heavy formation. LT pulls out in front both guards instantly get out to second level and take out the LBs who are trying to chase. First down game over.


Play 7 (1:52 mark): Shotgun formation with 3 WRs and a wing TE (Probably fits McVay's offense the most). LT and LG block down. Slot WR comes in orbit motion to the opposite side of the run play. Center gets the kick out block on the quick pull. TE comes from the right wing to lead through the hole and get enough of the LB so, McCoy is untouched through the hole and allowed to hit the second level untouched with a full head of steam

I don't see the Rams using a FB as much as the Bills did, but they have a guy like Corey Harkey who can do that in certain situations and will likely use TEs in traditional FB situations instead. This just shows you how the rams can be successful in Kroemer's run scheme by playing to the strengths of Goff, Gurley, and Robinson in a shotgun formation, while still incorporating the run motions integral to Tavon's game.

 

[OldSchool]

Great idea in theory but one major question goes unanswered. Who replaces him at LT? On the roster we don't have anybody who can stay healthy and replace him. The two best free agents are likely to resign in Cincy and Jax. The rest will cost more than GRob and are as bad and injury prone. The only viable draft picks will be gone before our first pick at 37. I'm all for replacing him but we need a viable option to replace him.

 

[FRO]

I agree with the post above, if there were guys in the draft or free agency that would be capable LT candidates, then by all means. The problem is there aren't quality LT options. Try him again at LT.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think he issues of balance and lunging would be more exposed inside than at T. Protecting him from the refs somewhat, I could see that. What OldSchool said about having to have a replacement for him at LT is true too.
I don't see him as a G (although I did when he was drafted) with his current issues.

 

[bubbaramfan]

I understand peoples frustrations with GRob, especially his regression last year. However GRob did play six games in a row at the end of '15 at a higher than average level with no penalties, no sacks allowed and picked up his blitzlng defender. That's two games short of half a season. He was getting it. I attended several practices at Irvine and paid special attention to the OL. GRob did well, smoth and fluid in his pass blocking, opened holes and got to the second level. He pancaked Donald, Hayes and Simms. When GRob is good, he's REAL good.
I'm as frustrated as any Rams fan, but I give GRob this season as his last chance at LT, only because we have to see what Kromer can get out of him. Oldschool is right, there is not another good option at LT. By the time the Rams draft, there won't be strating LT on the board and there isn't much there in FA.

Six straight games without a holding or false start and no sacks given up. How many OL can claim that? Its commendable to GRob that he finished '15 that way. Too bad he didn't keep it up in '16. He DID prove he can play LT in the NFL at a decent level. There's still a good chance Kromer can get hi right.



GRob's tombstone will read "When I do good, no one remembers, when I do bad, no one forgets".

 

[BonifayRam]

I don't really care where Kromer decides to use GRob as long as he is not starting @ left OT. There are many options for Kromer to look over as where GRob can be best used. IMO if you believe its a good ideal to keep GRob @ starting LT post your are certainly into self abuse as a Ram fan & must really dislike our thin framed QB.

In addition for all those members who fall into the group that believes Aaron Kromer can work his magic on GRob to make him a effective NFL starting LT then that same logic & magic would surely apply to the other Ram Ol'ers & would be great news to Tim Barnes, Rodger Saffold, Jamon Brown & Rob Havenstein all four must be thinking they all will be in the pro bowl this next season. Using that same above type logic can be utilized in other ways too since Kromer stands to fix GRob then he can certainly fix the other former starters too so there is really no reason to draft or sign any UFA OL'ers.

If I was permitted to make only one suggestion to Kromer on this GRob issue ....Get on the phone to OLG Garrett Reynolds & sign him yesterday!

If it were up to me I would just hope that GRob will win the Reserve Swing OT position but he is going to have some competition in that. GRob has never faced a situation like this before no telling how he will go about handling it. He was benched twice last season & that real story has yet to come out. But I tend to agree & fall in with @fearsomefour that GRob would not make a good starting OG in the NFL either. So I will set the bar high for GRob & in the end GRob in 2017 will take up the same position similar to what OT Pace Murphy filled in 2016 as our 10th OLer in our 2017 line cadrealm:.

 

[jrry32]

I'll leave that decisions up to Kromer, McVay, and the rest of the guys in charge. They are in a better position to make that evaluation.

 

[Ram65]

Sometimes GRob looks slow off the ball.
Sometimes GRob does not know who to block and doesn't block anyone.

Get Saffold next to him and make things simpler. Get his positioning correct. Use drill snaps over and over and over to get him off the ball faster and in better position. He doesn't have to be all pro. He needs to be more consistent and stop the stupid penalties.

 

[StealYoGurley]

Great idea in theory but one major question goes unanswered. Who replaces him at LT? On the roster we don't have anybody who can stay healthy and replace him. The two best free agents are likely to resign in Cincy and Jax. The rest will cost more than GRob and are as bad and injury prone. The only viable draft picks will be gone before our first pick at 37. I'm all for replacing him but we need a viable option to replace him.

This is a sensible argument. We disagree on Saffold being a better option, and that has been thoroughly debated in other places and not really the point of this particular thread. My point is this is the last year G Rob is guaranteed to be here and the Rams may as well put him in the best position to succeed. IMO nothing in his body of work says tackle is where he will have the most success. IMO Greg Robinson himself is not a viable option at LT. IMO the Rams will make just as much of a gamble putting GROB out there with the risk of getting your QB killed as you are risking Saffold's health at tackle.

However GRob did play six games in a row at the end of '15 at a higher than average level with no penalties, no sacks allowed and picked up his blitzlng defender. That's two games short of half a season. He was getting it.

You have been pushing this narrative in other threads for some time, and I didn't say anything because I didn't know if it is true or not, but unfortunately it is not true. According to pro football reference G Rob was penalized 4 times in those last 6 games. He had 2 holds a false start and a chop block, really par for the course for Grob, and not the consistent good performance you say he had at the end of 2015.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobiGr01/penalties/

 

[So Ram]

I'll leave that decisions up to Kromer, McVay, and the rest of the guys in charge. They are in a better position to make that evaluation.

Agreed -- My only take on change of position would be that Kromer said he really likes the way he pulls. I just watch the tape on The Rams site on GRob's combine workout.
He looks like a beast doing reps while pulling . Add his speed & strength to it all
& all he has to think about is opening up a hole & finding a defender to knock on his butt !!!
I think GRob has a lot of talent & upside . Will see , butt yes Kromer & McVay will find out soon enough.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I would like to see Robinson move to guard at some point, sooner rather than later, unless he suddenly becomes a kickass LT.

However I think when they're making the line, they should put the best LT they have in that position. Meaning guys that can play and stay healthy. If that's Robinson, even though he would be a better guard, I'd rather him stay at tackle. If they have a better option at tackle, then kick him inside.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think this staff will be less stubborn on this topic and will try to get the best out of GRob... if that's at guard, then that's one less hole on this team... as opposed to jettisoning him.

 

[OldSchool]

This is a sensible argument. We disagree on Saffold being a better option, and that has been thoroughly debated in other places and not really the point of this particular thread. My point is this is the last year G Rob is guaranteed to be here and the Rams may as well put him in the best position to succeed. IMO nothing in his body of work says tackle is where he will have the most success. IMO Greg Robinson himself is not a viable option at LT. IMO the Rams will make just as much of a gamble putting GROB out there with the risk of getting your QB killed as you are risking Saffold's health at tackle.

You make the argument about GRob being replaced twice last year at LT. Which is as many times as we've replaced Saffold at LT. Once with Jake Long and again with GRob himself. Also what happened each time we put Saffold out there to replace GRob? He got hurt forcing us to play the 3rd option on the team twice at LT which isn't good for Goffs future.

I disagree with the nothing in GRob's body of work says he can succeed. He played a near perfect final 5 games of the 2015 season. Which is more games in a row than Saffold has played that well and stayed healthy at LT. The problem IMO with our OLine lies less in the people and more in with the coaching we've had for the last 5 years. Protection schemes made no sense. We have an expert like LaCharles Bentley telling us that GRob has the physical tools to be an NFL LT. Now it's time to see what a viable offensive coaching staff can do with him and the others on the team. No matter how bad GRob is though I will never buy into the thought that Saffold is a viable LT option. He will not be able to stay healthy enough to try to prove me wrong. Starting him at LT and moving GRob to guard leaves us with a potentially good guard and an opening at LT because Saffold will be in street clothes on the sideline.

 

[StealYoGurley]

You make the argument about GRob being replaced twice last year at LT. Which is as many times as we've replaced Saffold at LT. Once with Jake Long and again with GRob himself. Also what happened each time we put Saffold out there to replace GRob? He got hurt forcing us to play the 3rd option on the team twice at LT which isn't good for Goffs future.

??? G Rob being replaced twice last year was never part of my argument. My only argument about G Rob is based on his body of work he is not a viable LT and with no guarantees past next year the rams might as well get the most out of him playing to his strengths at guard. He has been one of the worst tackles in the league for the last three years.

We have an expert like LaCharles Bentley telling us that GRob has the physical tools to be an NFL LT.

And that expert got to work with him all offseason and he regressed from "the great 6 in in '15"

I disagree with the nothing in GRob's body of work says he can succeed. He played a near perfect final 5 games of the 2015 season. Which is more games in a row than Saffold has played that well and stayed healthy at LT. The problem IMO with our OLine lies less in the people and more in with the coaching we've had for the last 5 years. Protection schemes made no sense.

This perfect last 6 games of 2015 is a false narrative mentioned in other posts and now people keep running with it. It is simply not true read my full post earlier. I wish I could get sack and pressure stats those last couple games so I could potentially further debunk that myth, but I do know he gave up a league high 19 QB hits in 2015. In the penalty department those last 6 games he was just as bad getting penalized 4 times.

Not only are the facts backing up "the great 6 in '15" argument wrong the premises of the whole argument is faulty. I don't get praising G Rob for being "good" in 6 out of 42 starts. In what world is a 14% success rate good? Cant knock Saffold for being unavailable then praise G Rob for being "good" 14% of the time.

Based on body of work of both players at LT Saffold is way better than GRob that isn't even up for debate. Saffold gave the rams 16 solid starts at LT his rookie year 3x times Grob's supposed 2015 streak. Saffold missed 6 and 7 games at LT the next two years, but still performed better than G Rob ever has. I dont think Saffold is the ideal solution, but I think he may be best available. Saffold's issues this year weren't his usual shoulder problems, its seems like he may have finally corrected those issues through offseason surgery. Saffold only missed one start and only Tim Barnes played more snaps on the O line, so his recent durability issues are being overstated.

G Rob has not been good at tackle his awful feet, hands, balance, and technique have nothing to do with the scheme. The lack of progression even when you have an outside expert coaching him all offseason has nothing to do with the scheme. At some point you have to hold the player accountable for at least a few aspects of his own improvement. Guys like Donald go into the offseason with a body fat percentage goal and constantly hit it. If the best in the game can be self critical and find aspects to focus on and improve in the offseason G Rob who has laundry list of areas where he can improve can sure as hell do the same. G Rob by his own admission came in to training camp overweight. These are things he is in total control of, if he can't handle that why should the rams continue to give him more opportunities?

 

[StealYoGurley]

Only O line stats I could find on G rob in the "great 6 in '15" were on PFF. Not a huge fan of PFF, but have to work with what we have.

Bengals - Gave up 6 pressures and a holding penalty for a terrible -3.3 grade
Detroit- Chop block and hold penalty. No PFF stats available
Buccaneers- Good game according to PFF didn't allow a hit or sack. To that point second career positively graded game as a run blocker and pass blocker. In G Rob fashion also had a false start.
Seahawks- Terrible -4.6 grade
49ers- Good Game (+3.2) grade buoyed by a great +2.5 run blocking and gave up only 1 pressure.

Can we bust the myth of the "great 6 in '15"? Certainly wasn't consistent and penalty free like some claim.

 

[ScotsRam]

Greg Robinson can play whatever he likes as long as it's not football for the Rams. Good teams don't have loyalty to busts picked under old regimes.

 

[OldSchool]

Not only are the facts backing up "the great 6 in '15" argument wrong the premises of the whole argument is faulty. I don't get praising G Rob for being "good" in 6 out of 42 starts. In what world is a 14% success rate good? Cant knock Saffold for being unavailable then praise G Rob for being "good" 14% of the time.

The whole damned line has been bad for the last 32 games.

And you still haven't answered my question I posed in the first response. Who replaces him. It's all well and good to have a desire to bench or move somebody. But you kind of need to replace the man.

 

[den-the-coach]

And you still haven't answered my question I posed in the first response. Who replaces him. .

I concur here, IMHO, we will know after the 9th of March....It is very possible that Kromer feels he can fix GROB and might see a huge difference in Robinson's play. As we debated Saffold is fools gold at LT as to he can only last about four plays when he's on an island. They could kick the tires on a Matt Kalil thinking bringing him back to Southern, CA might rejuvenate him, but quite frankly unless they are able to land Whitworth or overpay for Ty Nsekhe I believe Robinson will be given every opportunity at LT and the draft does really offer much either so let's hope Kromer can work his magic.

 

[StealYoGurley]

And you still haven't answered my question I posed in the first response. Who replaces him. It's all well and good to have a desire to bench or move somebody. But you kind of need to replace the man.

Sorry I am long winded at times, but I already said who.

I dont think Saffold is the ideal solution, but I think he may be best available. Saffold's issues this year weren't his usual shoulder problems, its seems like he may have finally corrected those issues through offseason surgery. Saffold only missed one start and only Tim Barnes played more snaps on the O line, so his recent durability issues are being overstated.

 

[StealYoGurley]

The whole damned line has been bad for the last 32 games.

Saffold played well last year, Reynolds played well in 2015, Havenstein also played well in 2015