Greg Cosell Breaks Down the O-Lineman for the Draft

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RamsJunkie

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Good listen. I respect Cosells evaluations. Hes really high on Peat and Humphries. Thinks Peat is the most pro ready tackle in the draft with Humpries having the most upside.

Thinks Flowers is nothing more than a guard at the next level

Clemmings scares the crap out of him... very athletic but too robotic and has a lot of learning to do before he can be a productive NFL Olineman.

Cam Erving is Phenomenal can play all 5 positions and play them well.(sounds like exactly what the rams need and like out of there Olineman)

La'el Colins is gonna be a beast at Guard or maybe RT

Thinks Highly of Boston College center Galik, and Oregans Grassu
 

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Good listen. I respect Cosells evaluations. Hes really high on Peat and Humphries. Thinks Peat is the most pro ready tackle in the draft with Humpries having the most upside.

Thinks Flowers is nothing more than a guard at the next level

Clemmings scares the crap out of him... very athletic but too robotic and has a lot of learning to do before he can be a productive NFL Olineman.

Cam Erving is Phenomenal can play all 5 positions and play them well.(sounds like exactly what the rams need and like out of there Olineman)

La'el Colins is gonna be a beast at Guard or maybe RT

Thinks Highly of Boston College center Galik, and Oregans Grassu
I disagree with you on Flowers, and disagree on Cam being able to play OT in the NFL, but everything else is right about where I am.

Cosell, hmm, Flowers killed Gregory, IMO, excpet on one play where he tripped over his own lineman.
 

RamsJunkie

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I disagree with you on Flowers, and disagree on Cam being able to play OT in the NFL, but everything else is right about where I am.

Cosell, hmm, Flowers killed Gregory, IMO, excpet on one play where he tripped over his own lineman.

Those wern't my opinions I was just giving a basic summary of what Cosell thought about them.
 

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I disagree with you on Flowers, and disagree on Cam being able to play OT in the NFL, but everything else is right about where I am.

Cosell, hmm, Flowers killed Gregory, IMO, excpet on one play where he tripped over his own lineman.

Gregory is even more overrated than Flowers is. I'd expect a fucking quarterback to be able to block that lazy weedhead. As for Humphries, he can't keep weight on. He proved that at Florida. I'd rather not see the next post-Titans Jacob Bell on our team. Erving can't play OT in the NFL. Could probably carve out a career as a decent center, but he's certainly not anywhere near the class of others.

Disagree on Clemmings; I think that he does have a lot of learning to do to be a left tackle, and he may never reach that plateau, but he could certainly be a great left guard/tackle. Collins could be an impressive guard or right tackle from the start; he just needs to work on conditioning.
 

thehammer

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they basically said Scherff and a bunch of high bust potential 2nd rd guys...Tucker is a former nfl olinemen and his comments were also interesting

Tucker didn't care for Hroniss Grasu...rest of the center guys yawn types...Cosell liked Gallik but IMO also a yawn type of guy
both liked Erving but IMO either Erving or don't waste a pick

both liked Peat 2nd most..they did disagree about Scherff being a top athlete..Tucker and his almost historic 3 cone says he is

they hinted at what I've been saying for some time about Clemming and Collins lack the brains to make it in the nfl....

When it comes to weaknesses, Tucker sees some deal-breakers. "He's just not very smooth. He does not look always comfortable when kick-sliding in pass protection," Tucker said. "I think he gets over-extended at times as well." Overall, Tucker feels that Flowers looks awkward with his technique and his balance and athleticism. He feels that Flowers is behind other highly-touted offensive linemen and is more likely to go in the second round. "I'm not gonna take a guy in the first round that doesn't look comfortable at times," Tucker said. "To me, he's a second round pick."

think there is a reason we are bringing in Peat and Jamon Brown...high sparqs with brains and brawn..Marpet and Donovan Smith should be close behind
 
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they basically said Scherff and a bunch of high bust potential 2nd rd guys...Tucker is a former nfl olinemen and his comments were also interesting

Tucker didn't care for Hroniss Grasu...rest of the center guys yawn types...Cosell liked Gallik but IMO also a yawn type of guy
both liked Erving but IMO either Erving or don't waste a pick

both liked Peat 2nd most..they did disagree about Scherff being a top athlete..Tucker and his almost historic 3 cone says he is

they hinted at what I've been saying for some time about Clemming and Collins lack the brains to make it in the nfl....

When it comes to weaknesses, Tucker sees some deal-breakers. "He's just not very smooth. He does not look always comfortable when kick-sliding in pass protection," Tucker said. "I think he gets over-extended at times as well." Overall, Tucker feels that Flowers looks awkward with his technique and his balance and athleticism. He feels that Flowers is behind other highly-touted offensive linemen and is more likely to go in the second round. "I'm not gonna take a guy in the first round that doesn't look comfortable at times," Tucker said. "To me, he's a second round pick."

think there is a reason we are bringing in Peat and Jamon Brown...high sparqs with brains and brawn..Marpet should be close behind
Peat is the best OT in this class bar none, IMO. Agree on Erving, or nobody at center, but Erving could play Guard too, obviously.
 

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Those wern't my opinions I was just giving a basic summary of what Cosell thought about them.
OK, then I disagree with Cosell, which I often do these the last few years. He's probably forgotten way, way much more than I've ever known, FWIW.
 

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Gregory is even more overrated than Flowers is. I'd expect a freaking quarterback to be able to block that lazy weedhead. As for Humphries, he can't keep weight on. He proved that at Florida. I'd rather not see the next post-Titans Jacob Bell on our team. Erving can't play OT in the NFL. Could probably carve out a career as a decent center, but he's certainly not anywhere near the class of others.

Disagree on Clemmings; I think that he does have a lot of learning to do to be a left tackle, and he may never reach that plateau, but he could certainly be a great left guard/tackle. Collins could be an impressive guard or right tackle from the start; he just needs to work on conditioning.

Agree on Clemmings, not a OLT, with a OLT body. Could be good at Guard, or ORT. Agree on Collins, who I'd take over Scherff, 10 times over. I think Flowers just needs more experience, especially in using his hands.
 

thehammer

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Peat is the best OT in this class bar none, IMO. Agree on Erving, or nobody at center, but Erving could play Guard too, obviously.

problem with Erving is he is moving up the draft board only because everyone else is moving down and now likely gone by our 2nd rd pick
 

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problem with Erving is he is moving up the draft board only because everyone else is moving down and now likely gone by our 2nd rd pick
Exactly, and he's not a top 10 talent, he just isn't. I wanted him in the 2nd, but he won't be there, IMO. I think he should go low 1st to mid 2nd. I think he will go middle 1st to low 1st, at worst. Good player on the interior, but wouldn't like him on the outside at all.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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problem with Erving is he is moving up the draft board only because everyone else is moving down and now likely gone by our 2nd rd pick


I agree, we have been figuring on that for a few weeks now too. Somewhere around 20- 25 looks probable.

If Mariota, White and Cooper are gone I would like a trade back. Just ahead of 20 to assure getting Erving before the likely teams. I liked Collins but did not realize he isn't too smart. I never liked Clemmings. Non of the other Centers appeal to me. I'd go Galick if I had to but he doesn't play strong IMO. I really like Marpet's potential at Guard and he was projected as a 4th and now some are saying round 2. (I took him in the second round of the ROD mock for Arizona)

This OLine class is deep...in mediocre talent.
 

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That was a good listen, really liked Tucker's take as well. But I think one thing we need to remember is the divisional matchups and how important that is to Fish when he selects players. The NFC West you need to run the ball, so he's gonna strongly consider that as they grade these players out.

If a guy has the length but not the nastiness and physical presence, like Peat, it's gonna count against him on the Rams board IMO. This is why I think a lot of the takes from different experts is going to differ from the Rams board. It is also why I think the Rams will highly grade Scherff. Scherff will have a top ten grade from the Rams without any doubt in my mind. They're gonna covet him, and the same goes for Collins who has a lot of similarities although I'm not sure where they see him, i.e. at 10 or after a trade down. Peat not so much. In fact, when you compare him with a guy they criticized in that show--Flowers--here's how I think the Rams see it:

Peat - ideal feet and length, most polish for blindside pass pro. Not mean or physical, not a power run blocker, can be overpowered.

Flowers - inconsistent and sloppy technique particularly early in season, but has the tools for pass pro. Dominant run blocker, plays physical.

They are looking for a RT, not a blindside guy. Someone big, nasty, who can grow into a dominant RT. They could take Peat and move GRob to RT, but they could also trade down, take Flowers and gain another pick in a deep OL draft. The difference between the two is an OL that is dominant on both sides for run blocking.

Oh and if you look at last year's draft you can see the way they think... They passed on Matthews who was more polished and ready, and took the guy who is a dominant run blocker thinking they would coach up his natural skills. I don't think that is going to change particularly since they are looking at a guy for the right side where trouble with speed rushers is more common.
 

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That was a good listen, really liked Tucker's take as well. But I think one thing we need to remember is the divisional matchups and how important that is to Fish when he selects players. The NFC West you need to run the ball, so he's gonna strongly consider that as they grade these players out.

If a guy has the length but not the nastiness and physical presence, like Peat, it's gonna count against him on the Rams board IMO. This is why I think a lot of the takes from different experts is going to differ from the Rams board. It is also why I think the Rams will highly grade Scherff. Scherff will have a top ten grade from the Rams without any doubt in my mind. They're gonna covet him, and the same goes for Collins who has a lot of similarities although I'm not sure where they see him, i.e. at 10 or after a trade down. Peat not so much. In fact, when you compare him with a guy they criticized in that show--Flowers--here's how I think the Rams see it:

Peat - ideal feet and length, most polish for blindside pass pro. Not mean or physical, not a power run blocker, can be overpowered.

Flowers - inconsistent and sloppy technique particularly early in season, but has the tools for pass pro. Dominant run blocker, plays physical.

They are looking for a RT, not a blindside guy. Someone big, nasty, who can grow into a dominant RT. They could take Peat and move GRob to RT, but they could also trade down, take Flowers and gain another pick in a deep OL draft. The difference between the two is an OL that is dominant on both sides for run blocking.

Oh and if you look at last year's draft you can see the way they think... They passed on Matthews who was more polished and ready, and took the guy who is a dominant run blocker thinking they would coach up his natural skills. I don't think that is going to change particularly since they are looking at a guy for the right side where trouble with speed rushers is more common.

I really think that you're understating Peat's physical presence and his high ceiling. He's much more physical and a better run blocker than people give him credit for. I think people see that he's a dancing bear that's great in pass-protection (albeit with a few minor issues) and think that he's just a left tackle. But he's flat out dominated everyone except for Leonard Williams, and Williams is a true generational talent, and the most versatile, talented, and freakish defensive lineman I've seen since Julius Peppers in 2002.

And while Peat may not be as nasty as Scherff or Flowers, he can get to the second level and make blocks there (Scherff can't), and his technique overall is fairly solid and fixable by a guy like Boudreau (Flowers' technique is not).

Overall, Snisher values talent. G-Rob was more talented than Matthews, Donald more talented than Mosley and Martin. If Cooper and White are off the board, I think they take Peat because he's quite simply the most talented player at a position of absolute need.
 

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The 2015 draft class of offensive linemen is very deep from tackle to guard to center, and one of the more interesting and potentially befuddling things about this class is how many players who have excelled at one or more positions in the NCAA could be better off lining up somewhere else when it’s their time in the NFL. In the latest edition of their draft podcast series, Doug Farrar of Sports Illustrated and Greg Cosell of NFL Films and ESPN’s NFL Matchup break down the big names, some underrated surprises, and where these guys should all line up at the next level. (70:00)

Listen to Cosell/Farrar Talk O-Linemen
 

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Deciding where college tackles fit on NFL offensive lines is no simple task
by Doug Farrar

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/03/nfl-draft-podcast-offensive-tackles-brandon-scherff-lael-collins

The two best rookie guards of 2014 were tackles on their college teams. Cowboys right guard Zack Martin was Notre Dame's starting left tackle for three seasons, but his relatively limited athleticism projected him better as a guard. At the Senior Bowl, Martin lined up at guard and impressed the league enough for the Cowboys to take him with the 16th overall pick in the draft, marking the third time in four years that Dallas took an offensive lineman in the first round (Tyron Smith and Travis Frederick in 2011 and 2013, respectively). Martin was plugged in at right guard and immediately became the power pointman of an offensive line that re-defined the Cowboys' running game, paving the way for DeMarco Murray to lead the league with 392 carries, 1,845 yards and 13 touchdowns.

The Browns face discouraging early returns on their two first-round draft picks in 2014—quarterback Johnny Manziel and cornerback Justin Gilbert are works-in-progress, at best—but they got it right in the second round when they selected Nevada tackle Joel Bitonio with the 35th pick. Like Martin, Bitonio had started his career taking snaps at guard but became the Wolf Pack's starting left tackle in 2011 and never relinquished that job. Bitonio had the athleticism to play left tackle in the NFL, but his relatively short arms presented an issue, and the Browns saw him as their left guard of the future, lining up between two Pro Bowl-level players in left tackle Joe Thomas and center Alex Mack. As it turned out, the future was now for Bitonio; he excelled in his new role from the start, and there are some who believe he was even more effective than Martin was.

It's a question personnel people have to ask themselves every draft season: Are the best tackle prospects better staying put or moving inside? It's fairly common to take tackles with shorter arms, thicker midsections and less impressive movement skills and kick them in to the guard position, but the successful transitions are about more than taking a pudgy guy and changing his roster designation.

As Greg Cosell of NFL Films and ESPN's NFL Matchup said in our most recent draft podcast, the evaluation process for NFL tackles is far from a uniform template, which complicates matters in studying the draft's top offensive tackle prospects.

"It's a great question, but it's multi-faceted," Cosell said. "If you think about the NFL—and that's what we're doing, we're projecting these players to the NFL—there are a number of tackles in the NFL, even left tackles, if you were evaluating them now ... you might say, 'They're not really NFL left tackles, but they're playing left tackle in the NFL.' You could argue that Andrew Whitworth, who is a very good NFL left tackle, fits that category. There are others who aren't dancing bears. And I think when people think of left tackles, they like to think of really good athletes with really light, quick feet. But there just aren't that many Walter Joneses and Orlando Paces out there."

Whitworth, who has alternated between guard and tackle throughout his nine seasons with the Bengals, gave up the fewest total pressures of any starting left tackle in 2014, per Pro Football Focus: no sacks, one quarterback hit and eight quarterback hurries. Whitworth was able to do this without excellent speed or an optimal kick-step in pass protection because he's an adept technician and an intense competitor who understands leverage and angles.

Whitworth is proof positive that not every successful NFL left tackle looks like a successful NFL left tackle. Iowa's Brandon Scherff, who stands 6'5" and weighs 319 pounds, could go either way. He may not be agile enough for teams that feature a quick-passing offense with fewer in-line tight end and multiple protections, but a balanced team like the Bengals—who found different kinds of value in Whitworth—might see him as the perfect edge protector. Like those before him, Scherff benefited from instruction at Iowa that is rich in fundamentals. It makes him more pro-ready, but he's also been hit with the low ceiling label.

"You have to think when you watch a guy play ... let's take Brandon Scherff," Cosell said. "He's typical of this Iowa line of left tackles over the years. Bryan Bulaga came out of Iowa, he's playing right tackle for Green Bay. Riley Reiff came out of Iowa, he's playing left tackle for Detroit. When I look at Brandon Scherff, I would not say that he's a dancing bear. If you're looking for that ideal left tackle series of traits, I don't think he's that guy. But that doesn't mean that he can't play left tackle in the NFL, depending on what team takes him, and how that team runs an offense."

Most agree that the top two tackles in the 2015 draft are Scherff and LSU's La'el Collins. Collins is a different player—at 6'4" and 305 pounds, he plays with tremendous in-line power and strength. But he'll lunge at targets in space, he tends to let defenders roll off him because he has difficulty sustaining blocks and he may not be quick enough to adjust to inside counters and certain speed moves.

"I made the point in my notes that he was a badass as a run blocker," Cosell said. "And that's kind of what he is. But I think overall, he does have a desirable combination of natural power and athleticism. He took defensive linemen to the ground. He stayed on them. He was explosive off the ball. Now, you could also make the point that there were times when he fell off blocks. He's clearly comfortable and powerful and explosive as a run-blocker. That's the strength of his game. But he also has natural athleticism where he could work as a left or right tackle. If you're delineating between positions, you'd probably look at him as a right tackle or left guard."

In the end, it's the scheme fit that will make the decisions for Scherff, Collins and every other potential hybrid lineman in this draft class. These are special players, but the teams that draft them will have to do their homework to understand and implement the best strategies for their individual talents.

To listen to the entire Greg Cosell podcast on the 2015 class of offensive linemen, click below.

http://www.rams-news.com/the-nfl-draft-podcast-with-greg-cosell-the-offensive-linemen-audio/
 

LACHAMP46

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I'm curious to see where these assessments really fall after the season. I like Greg as well, and Ross was interesting. He's been spouting off about Flowers on PFT too...
Cosell, hmm, Flowers killed Gregory, IMO, excpet on one play where he tripped over his own lineman.
I watched that game and despite giving ground a few times thought he showed well too. And Gregory can play...Makes Tucker & Cossell sound silly.

I think Flowers just needs more experience, especially in using his hands.
This, all he needs is some pro coaching...He's a worker out there...Coach Boo will love him.

Flowers - inconsistent and sloppy technique particularly early in season, but has the tools for pass pro. Dominant run blocker, plays physical.

They are looking for a RT, not a blindside guy. Someone big, nasty, who can grow into a dominant RT. They could take Peat and move GRob to RT, but they could also trade down, take Flowers and gain another pick in a deep OL draft. The difference between the two is an OL that is dominant on both sides for run blocking.
Agree with all this, Snisher likes the high upside, physical guys. Especially at RT or OG...I see a 20 year old with room to really grow...
Overall, I really don't like many of these picks at the #10 spot, but a trade back we should target Flowers...QB in the 2nd...and OG with the other pick from the trade back...
 

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I'm curious to see where these assessments really fall after the season. I like Greg as well, and Ross was interesting. He's been spouting off about Flowers on PFT too...
I watched that game and despite giving ground a few times thought he showed well too. And Gregory can play...Makes Tucker & Cossell sound silly.

This, all he needs is some pro coaching...He's a worker out there...Coach Boo will love him.

Agree with all this, Snisher likes the high upside, physical guys. Especially at RT or OG...I see a 20 year old with room to really grow...
Overall, I really don't like many of these picks at the #10 spot, but a trade back we should target Flowers...QB in the 2nd...and OG with the other pick from the trade back...

Gregory can play? Hahahahaha! No. Just...no. He's the typical athlete playing football. He doesn't have a position, he doesn't have the work ethic, and he's a complete idiot and weedhead to boot. I'm not surprised that Gregory was beat by Flowers; Gregory isn't even a UDFA in my eyes. If he was at Norfolk State like Trail instead of Nebraska, you wouldn't even know who he was.

Boudreau's going to absolutely hate working with Flowers or Scherff. Neither of them can pass-protect, Scherff is a piss-poor athlete (he has weight-room strength that doesn't translate to on-the-field play), and Flowers' technique is worse than awful, especially in pass-protection. And what QB would you pick in the second? Hundley, who isn't even backup material at this point? Petty, who is a worse prospect than Brandon Weeden?

And there really isn't any upside with Flowers. He might be able to play right guard given two years, but who's going to wait for a first-round pick for two years? You play him or Scherff anywhere but there, and Foles is going to be the first death on a football field.'

In a trading-down scenario, I'm taking Clemmings over Scherff and Flowers every day and especially Sunday.
 

LACHAMP46

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Gregory can play? Hahahahaha! No. Just...no. He's the typical athlete playing football. He doesn't have a position, he doesn't have the work ethic, and he's a complete idiot and weedhead to boot. I'm not surprised that Gregory was beat by Flowers; Gregory isn't even a UDFA in my eyes. If he was at Norfolk State like Trail instead of Nebraska, you wouldn't even know who he was.

Boudreau's going to absolutely hate working with Flowers or Scherff. Neither of them can pass-protect, Scherff is a pee pee-poor athlete (he has weight-room strength that doesn't translate to on-the-field play), and Flowers' technique is worse than awful, especially in pass-protection. And what QB would you pick in the second? Hundley, who isn't even backup material at this point? Petty, who is a worse prospect than Brandon Weeden?

And there really isn't any upside with Flowers. He might be able to play right guard given two years, but who's going to wait for a first-round pick for two years? You play him or Scherff anywhere but there, and Foles is going to be the first death on a football field.'

In a trading-down scenario, I'm taking Clemmings over Scherff and Flowers every day and especially Sunday.
Gregory CAN PLAY....I don't know what you're looking at or what his weed habit has to do with his actual play...The dude has power & speed. To go with an uncanny ability to pursue the QB...You put him on ANY TEAM, on passing downs, he'll cause problems....Scherff is not physical enough in my eyes...he's always trying to hit 2nd level players hard, but DE's & OLB's he has all kinds of trouble, dudes always get into his body...in pass protection...I don't see the whole hype on him...Clemmings has excellent game tape. You have to watch him closely to discover how raw he really is. His hands and feet are the best in college. I only became discouraged in this guy after senior bowl week....the game was a wash, couldn't tell.. But the practices he looked like sh!t....I compared him to Marpet & Donovan Smith who looked liked they belonged...and I wouldn't risk a 1st round pick on a guy that plays like that in practice. Flowers is the most physical guy on the line in this draft at tackle...He has played against the best competition out of the highly rated OT's...He'll be moving to RT....he's 20 years old...He benched 225 lbs 37 times (yeah, that um like, matters)...he weighs 330+...he moves well...all these factors point to a player that can be developed into an all-pro type. And ex-TE's, ex-QB O-Linemen scare me...I don't wanna hear about the success stories, all I remember is Jason Smith...
Hundley is a 2nd round talent...easy...He'll be better than Foles by week 4...He'd be a starter week one with ALL the reps in preseason. With our line we need a QB with mobility..You have strong opinions, and I like that..Passion as Dez Bryant would say...check out some of these O-Linemen in games where they are having trouble...Look at the 1st quarter then shoot to the fourth quarter...you'll see who wants it, and who doesn't....