For now, All-Pro voters are not identified

[Blue and Gold]

http://www.ramsondemand.com/forums/rams-nfl-talk.26/create-thread

For now, All-Pro voters are not identified
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 2, 2015, 4:39 PM EST

AP
The Associated Press All-Pro team was released today, but one question won’t be answered for another four weeks: Who voted for the All-Pros?

The Associated Press put together a 50-member panel of media members to choose the All-Pros, but the organization has not released the names of the voters. We asked the AP for the names of the voters and were told that those names won’t be released until all of the individual awards — MVP, coach of the year, rookie of the year, etc. — are announced on the day before the Super Bowl.

That seems strange. A news organization like the AP, and the individual media members who vote on the AP awards, should be transparent about the voting process and about the identity of the voters themselves.

Members of the media should also be willing to stand by their votes and subject themselves to scrutiny if their votes raise questions. And, frankly, a lot of the votes on the All-Pro team are questionable at best, and just plain wrong at worst. For instance:
Who was the one voter who did not vote Pittsburgh’s Antonio Brown an All-Pro wide receiver?
Who was the one voter who chose not to place a punter on the All-Pro team?
Who was the one voter who chose to vote for Marshawn Lynch as a fullback, instead of a running back?
Who were the two voters who chose Evan Mathis as an All-Pro guard even though he was injured and missed half the season?
Who voted Seattle’s James Carpenter, a mediocre guard, an All-Pro?
Who voted for Clay Matthews as an All-Pro inside linebacker when he mostly plays outside linebacker?
Did the 13 voters who chose Elvis Dumervil as an All-Pro outside linebacker even know that Dumervil is nothing more than a situational pass rusher, or did they just vote for him because he had a lot of sacks?

We’ve asked the AP for more information about which voters cast which votes, but so far we haven’t received the identity of any individual voters. We’d hope that all of the voters would publicly identify themselves, and stand by their votes. Or, in some cases, see the error of their ways and distance themselves from their votes.

 

[Blue and Gold]

From last year


http://www.footballperspective.com/the-aps-all-pro-voting-process-is-a-joke/

The AP’s All-Pro Voting Process Is a Joke
by CHASE STUART on FEBRUARY 11, 2014

In early January, the Associated Press announced its All-Pro team. The voting process is pretty simple: 50 voters select their top players at each position, and a first-team All-Pro squad is announced. The runners-up at each position are placed on the second-team, but that leads to some very odd results. If fans, teams, and Hall of Fame voters are going to put weight on a player being considered a 2nd-team All-Pro, then the voters should actually vote for both a first and second team. Simply naming the second vote getter (or third and fourth vote getters at positions with two starters) as the second-team All-Pro(s) invites significant abuses of the system.

Let’s take a look at the detailed voting breakdown. I’ve bolded the first-team All-Pro(s) at each position, and italicized the second-team “choices.”

Quarterback

Peyton Manning, Denver, 50.

This one’s pretty easy.

Running Back

LeSean McCoy, Philadelphia, 48; Jamaal Charles, Kansas City, 47; Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 1; Eddie Lacy, Green Bay, 1.

Did you hear that Eddie Lacy was a second-team All-Pro choice in 2013? That’s because one voter — presumably one in Wisconsin — decided that Lacy was better than McCoy or Charles in 2013. And that’s it. Is Lacy, or for that matter, Peterson, a more-deserving choice as a 2nd-team All-Pro than Matt Forte, Marshawn Lynch, Alfred Morris, Knowshon Moreno, or DeMarco Murray? Who knows — and that’s the point. The 2nd-team All-Pro honors going to Peterson and Lacy are essentially meaningless pieces of information. All we know is that 1 voter out of 50 decided that those two were top-2 running backs in 2013. Gregg Rosenthal noted that it was a shame that Forte was passed over for 2nd-team honors, and I agree with that sentiment. But Forte wasn’t passed over in the literal sense: had the 50 voters actually selected a second-team pair of running backs, I suspect Forte would have been chosen.

It’s also worth noting that it appears as though 3 voters selected only one running back. Brilliant.

Fullback

Mike Tolbert, Carolina, 31; Marcel Reece, Oakland, 8; Anthony Sherman, Kansas City, 5; Bruce Miller, San Francisco, 4; John Kuhn, Green Bay, 1.

Anyone want to offer me 49:1 odds that the AP voter who selected Kuhn also selected Lacy?

Tight End

Jimmy Graham, New Orleans, 49; Vernon Davis, San Francisco, 1.

Vernon Davis was a 2nd-team All-Pro in 2013 because…. 2% of all voters thought Davis was better than Jimmy Graham. Graham should have been a unanimous pick, but we all know what happened here: some voter decided that he wanted Davis to get some love, and figured he could ensure such accolades by placing Davis on the 2nd team by casting just one vote for him. I love Davis, and think he’s probably an underrated player nationally, but how can anyone give any credibility to this “accomplishment”?


Wide Receivers

Calvin Johnson, Detroit, 42; Josh Gordon, Cleveland, 28; A.J. Green, Cincinnati, 12; Demaryius Thomas, Denver, 6; Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh, 6; Brandon Marshall, Chicago, 5; Alshon Jeffery, Chicago, 1.

It’s safe to say that Jeffery cost Marshall the one vote he needed to be the, uh, 4th wide receiver named 2nd-team All-Pro. And it’s still pretty silly to determine who the 4th best receiver in the NFL is based on the fact that 12% of voters thought the receiver was one of the top two in the league.

Tackles

Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 28; Jason Peters, Philadelphia, 25; Joe Staley, San Francisco, 16; Tyron Smith, Dallas, 14; Zach Strief, New Orleans, 4; Orlando Franklin, Denver, 3; Jordan Gross, Carolina, 2; Gosder Cherilus, Indianapolis, 1; Andrew Whitworth, Cincinnati, 1; Jermaine Bushrod, Chicago, 1; Demar Dotson, Tampa Bay, 1; Trent Williams, Washington, 1; Branden Albert, Kansas City, 1; Jake Long, St. Louis, 1; Phil Loadholt, Minnesota, 1.

Well, at least there were some pretty decent gaps between the first-team and second-team selections, and between the second-team selections and the “others receiving votes.” That’s not the case at the next position.

Guards

Louis Vasquez, Denver, 22; Evan Mathis, Philadelphia, 18; Jahri Evans, New Orleans, 14; Josh Sitton, Green Bay, 13; Mike Iupati, San Francisco, 12; Logan Mankins, New England, 12; Larry Warford, Detroit, 3; Marshal Yanda, Baltimore, 3; Andrew Whitworth, Cincinnati, 1; Andy Levitre, Tennessee, 1.

Evans, Sitton, and Mankins were actually announced as the second-team selections, which means either (1) Mankins actually received 13 votes (the total number of votes only adds up to 99), or (2) Mankins should not have been named a 2nd-team choice. An e-mail to the Associated Press was not returned. In any event, is there any meaningful difference between Iupati and Evans/Sitton/Mankins? Ideally, you would send out the ballot, and after Vasquez and Mathis were picked for the first team, the ballot would be re-sent with the question “pick the two best guards other than Vasquez and Mathis.” At that point, we might be able to trust who the second-team guards actually were.

Center

Ryan Kalil, Carolina, 26; Alex Mack, Cleveland, 9; Jason Kelce, Philadelphia, 4; Max Unger, Seattle, 4; Manny Ramirez, Denver, 2;John Sullivan, Minnesota, 2; Mike Pouncey, Miami, 1; Dominic Raiola, Detroit, 1; Nick Hardwick, San Diego, 1.

No place is it safer to file your homer votes than on the interior line.

Placekicker

Justin Tucker, Baltimore, 38; Matt Prater, Denver, 7; Stephen Gostkowski, New England, 3; Steven Hauschka, Seattle, 1; Phil Dawson, San Francisco, 1.

Tucker was a great selection, but Prater? We can chalk this one up to Mile High bias, though, and not a flaw in the process.

Kick Returner

Cordarrelle Patterson, Minnesota, 36; Dexter McCluster, Kansas City, 8; Dwayne Harris, Dallas, 2; Devin Hester, Chicago, 2;Trindon Holliday, Denver, 1; Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh, 1.

I suppose we are to assume that the category is mislabeled? McCluster and Brown combined for 19 kickoff return yards in 2013. So do their 9 votes represent protest votes or a failure to understand the rules vote? Both were great punt returners this year, but that’s not what the category is labeled. Please, I urge you: take a second and process that Dexter McCluster, who returned one kick for 3 yards in 2013, was chosen as the second-team kick returner by the most revered voters in football.

Defensive Ends

Robert Quinn, St. Louis, 46; J.J. Watt, Houston, 28; Greg Hardy, Carolina, 14; Mario Williams, Buffalo, 5; Muhammad Wilkerson, New York Jets, 1; Cameron Jordan, New Orleans, 1; Carlos Dunlap, Cincinnati, 1; Charles Johnson, Carolina, 1; Kyle Williams, Buffalo, 1; Chandler Jones, New England, 1.

Defensive Tackles

Gerald McCoy, Tampa Bay, 28; Ndamukong Suh, Detroit, 19; Dontari Poe, Kansas City, 13; Justin Smith, San Francisco, 8;Jurrell Casey, Tennessee, 8; Muhammad Wilkerson, New York Jets, 8; Kyle Williams, Buffalo, 6; J.J. Watt, Houston, 3; Jason Hatcher, Dallas, 3; Sheldon Richardson, New York Jets, 2; Brandon Mebane, Seattle, 1; Marcell Dareus, Buffalo, 1.

Let’s take these two groups together. Watt received 28 votes at defensive end and 3 at defensive tackle. Buffalo’s Kyle Williams was two votes shy of being a “second-team” choice at guard. We know at least one person considered him an end — how many others did? Wilkerson was in the same boat. He’s played as a 3-4 defensive end his entire career, so how comes 8 people chose him as an All-Pro at tackle and just 1 at end? I have no problem if voters think 3-4 ends should be treated as interior defensive linemen, but then every voter needs to do that. To not have a uniform categorization of defensive linemen throws the entire results into question.

Had all voters labeled Wilkerson an end, he probably gets the second-team nod over Mario Williams, which might have been enough to vault Buffalo’s other Williams into the second-team position at tackle. How does this make any sense? And yet, somehow, this is even less embarrassing than what happened at linebacker.

Outside Linebackers

Robert Mathis, Indianapolis, 49; Lavonte David, Tampa Bay, 22; Tamba Hali, Kansas City, 10; Ahmad Brooks, San Francisco, 5; Vontaze Burfict, Cincinnati, 4; Justin Houston, Kansas City, 4; Terrell Suggs, Baltimore, 3; John Abraham, Arizona, 2;Thomas Davis, Carolina, 1.

Inside Linebacker

Luke Kuechly, Carolina, 45; NaVorro Bowman, San Francisco, 39; Vontaze Burfict, Cincinnati, 7; Karlos Dansby, Arizona, 4;Patrick Willis, San Francisco, 2; Derrick Johnson, Kansas City, 2; Thomas Davis, Carolina, 1.

In case you can’t tell, the positions are labeled “Outside Linebackers” and “Inside Linebackers”. I repeat, we have one category for “Outside Linebackers” and one category for “Inside Linebackers.” These categories are NOT labeled “Pass Rushers” and “Tacklers.” Vontaze Burfict led the NFL in tackles and was a “second-team All-Pro” at inside linebacker. But Burfict is an outside linebacker. Rey Maualuga plays on the inside in Cincinnati, and Vincent Rey replaced him when Maualuga was injured. According to Pro Football Focus, Burfict spent 306 snaps as an inside linebacker, 18 snaps deep, 22 covering the slot or lined up out wide, and roughly 700 snaps as an outside linebacker. Ahmad Brooks can thank the ignorance of voters for his second-team All-Pro “selection” at outside linebacker.1

We can confirm that 45 people know who plays middle linebacker in Carolina… but we can also confirm that at least one voter does not.Thomas Davis had a great year at outside linebacker but is not a sack artist, which means he gets a vote as an inside linebacker, I guess.

Cornerbacks

Richard Sherman, Seattle, 48; Patrick Peterson, Arizona, 28; Aqib Talib, New England, 8; Alterraun Verner, Tennessee, 6;Joe Haden, Cleveland, 6; Brent Grimes, Miami, 4.

There were 24 votes not cast for either Sherman or Peterson. Those were split pretty evenly among Talib/Verner/Haden/Grimes, but the Dolphin was left out in the cold because of the process. The AP voting field has a decidedly ESPN presence, which may explain how Talib received so many votes. He had a fine year, but I’d say he was the worst of the six.

Safeties

Earl Thomas, Seattle, 47; Eric Berry, Kansas City, 32; Eric Weddle, San Diego, 10; Jairus Byrd, Buffalo, 2; T.J. Ward, Cleveland, 2; Devin McCourty, New England, 2; Antrel Rolle, New York Giants, 2; Kam Chancellor, Seattle, 2; Tyrann Mathieu, Arizona, 1.

Do I even need to say anything? Eight different safeties were selected as second-team All-Pros using this process.

Punter

Johnny Hekker, St. Louis, 23; Brandon Fields, Miami, 20; Shane Lechler, Houston, 3; Jon Ryan, Seattle, 2; Bryan Anger, Jacksonville, 1; Andy Lee, San Francisco, 1.

Hekker led the league in net punting average, and Fields was just a tenth of a yard behind Oakland’s Marquette King (who had 2 punts blocked) for the lead in gross punting average. Presumably, that’s about as much thought went into this process.

 

[RamBill]

Johnny Hekker named second-team All-Pro
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/15168/johnny-hekker-named-second-team-all-pro

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- The Associated Press announced its NFL All-Pro selections Friday with little in the way of surprises with players such as Houston defensive end J.J. Watt and New England tight end Rob Gronkowski earning unanimous honors.

Also of no surprise was the absence of any St. Louis Rams from the first team. The Ram who came closest was punter Johnny Hekker, who once again was one of the best punters in the league. Hekker received 12 votes among the other punters, which was good enough to land him a spot on the second team. Indianapolis punter Pat McAfee landed the first team spot with 25 votes.

Hekker followed his 2013 All Pro campaign with a net average 42.3 yards and also made an impact on fakes by completing key passes on fake punts to keep drives alive and, in the case of the team's win against Seattle, seal a victory. Hekker signed a new contract with the team in late November that makes him the highest paid punter in the league in terms of guaranteed money.

Defensive end Robert Quinn received one vote, and defensive tackle Aaron Donald received four. Quinn and Donald are headed to the Pro Bowl later this month. Here's the complete voting tally.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/02/a-closer-look-at-the-all-pro-vote/

A closer look at the All-Pro vote
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 2, 2015

We noted earlier today that the Associated Press has declined to release the full list of 50 members of the media who vote on the NFL’s All-Pro team. But we have been able to identify some of the voters behind some of the more surprising votes.

The oddest choice on the entire AP All-Pro team may have been listing Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch as a fullback, rather than a running back. The one voter who put Lynch at fullback was Boomer Esiason, the former NFL quarterback who now works as a TV and radio commentator.

Another former NFL quarterback, Troy Aikman, stood out with another odd vote: Aikman was the only one of the 50 voters who didn’t place a punter on his All-Pro team. We’ve been told Aikman “preferred not to vote for a punter.”

And in yet another sign that great former players don’t alway make for great All-Pro voters, we have James Lofton’s vote at guard. Lofton, the Hall of Fame wide receiver who’s now a broadcaster, voted for Seattle’s James Carpenter as an All-Pro guard. Carpenter is just not a good guard and that vote is hard to understand.

Evan Mathis of the Eagles is a good guard, but it was surprising to see that he got two All-Pro votes even though he spent half the season on short-term injured reserve. No matter how good Mathis was on the 50 percent of the Eagles’ offensive snaps that he played, did he really deserve to be chosen ahead of guards like Marshall Yanda of Baltimore and Zack Martin of Dallas, both of whom also played at a very high level while playing 99 percent of their teams’ offensive snaps? Hub Arkush and Nick Pavlatos thought so, because they were the media members who voted for Mathis.

Green Bay’s Clay Matthews got five votes as an All-Pro outside linebacker, which was not surprising. But it was surprising that Matthews also got one vote as an All-Pro inside linebacker. Matthews did get some playing time at inside linebacker, but according to Pro Football Focus, Matthews played more on the outside than on the inside in all 16 games this year, and overall Matthews played 84 percent of his snaps at outside linebacker. It’s hard to see how a player who spends so little time on the inside can get an All-Pro vote over linebackers who play on the inside full-time, but John Czarnecki voted for Matthews at inside linebacker.

Another voter who cast an outside-the-box vote was Dan Pompei, the one voter who kept Antonio Brown from being a unanimous selection at wide receiver. Pompei voted for Dez Bryant and Jordy Nelson, both of whom had very good seasons as well, at wide receiver.

For NFL players, there’s no higher honor at the end of the season than to be named the best player at your position in the league, and for the most part the players on the All-Pro team are the best players at their positions. But it’s disappointing, when going through the vote counts, to get the feeling that some voters don’t take the job of All-Pro voter seriously enough to do the necessary homework to really learn which players are deserving. The AP could stand to overhaul its list of voters, which would give the league a better list of All-Pros.