Fisher won't change Rams' unique approach to offseason/Wagoner

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RamBill

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Fisher won't change Rams' unique approach to offseason program
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...nge-rams-unique-approach-to-offseason-program

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- As the only team without mandatory minicamps and the last team to start organized team activities and sign its draft class, the St. Louis Rams make no bones about their unique approach to the offseason program.

And while doing things differently from the rest of the league hasn't yielded much in the way of results on the field, Rams coach Jeff Fisher has no plans to change how his team goes about its business.

For example, don't expect to see the word "minicamp" come off the team's blacklist anytime soon. While most teams around the league welcomed their newly drafted rookies with a weekend minicamp soon after the draft, the Rams had what Fisher referred to only as an orientation. There, the rookies are asked only to get acclimated to what the team is doing before throwing them in the mix with the veterans.

Fisher's belief is that rookies aren't in physical condition to step on the field and get right back to football without some time in the team's strength and conditioning program. As devastating injuries to valuable draft picks struck in places like Jacksonville and Denver, Fisher made it a point to bring along his new additions slowly.

"Our philosophy since the rookie orientation is to assess the rookies while the vets are conditioning and then get the rookies back into a position and get them caught up with the veteran group so that they (can) compete," Fisher said. "So we did that. We had a couple really good weeks."

After taking that time, plus an extra week in which the veterans got some time off while the rookies kept working, the team reconvened in St. Louis last week for the start of OTAs. Even then, though, Fisher wanted to take some time before pushing everybody into extensive work. The Rams had their first OTA last Tuesday and followed with a 90-minute "phase two" exercise on the field and OTAs on Thursday and Friday.

The Rams resume their second week of OTAs on Tuesday as many of the other teams around the league finish up with mandatory minicamps. With their final OTA set for June 18, the Rams will be one of the last teams to finish and the only team in the league to finish with no minicamp.

Even with a new offensive coordinator and quarterback, Fisher said he never gave much consideration to changing up the plan.

“No, I didn’t think it was necessary," Fisher said. "I think when you look actually at the veteran minicamp, it’s really no different than an OTA. You’re allowed to go on the field once. You get to have a walkthrough. You get to keep them in the building for 12 hours rather than six. I personally think that’s too much and too long during the offseason.

"There’s a distinct difference between what we can do with the rookies and what we can do with the veterans. There’s a six-hour time limit window on OTA day and two hours on the field. There’s no restrictions with the rookies. We’re getting a lot of extra time with the rookies in the afternoon. We’re getting caught up.

"I’ve just always been one of those that has been opposed to the mandatory minicamp, especially back in the days when you’ve got to go on the field twice a day. It just made no sense to me that you’re taking professional athletes and making them practice twice a day in the middle of the offseason. It didn’t make sense, probably because I hated it.”
 

Rmfnlt

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I dunno... if there were at least a few coaches that followed this path... especially if those coaches were successful, I wouldn't blink an eye.

I'll give Fisher one thing: The man has uber-confidence is his ways. Some might use the word stubborn.

And that is fine... provided he delivers this year.
 

Afro Ram

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I kinda like the fact he gives the rookies extra time to get conditioned. However I don't think it's the best strategy to go too easy during the otas. I can't remember exactly when the team is allowed to fully tackle but it's clear the players need time to get re-use to the contact which leads to missed tackles and slow starts. If the team gets off to another slow start this year Fisher could and should find himself unemployed
 

Robocop

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I kinda like the fact he gives the rookies extra time to get conditioned. However I don't think it's the best strategy to go too easy during the otas. I can't remember exactly when the team is allowed to fully tackle but it's clear the players need time to get re-use to the contact which leads to missed tackles and slow starts. If the team gets off to another slow start this year Fisher could and should find himself unemployed
ok I can understand ppl looking for reasons to the slow starts but no mini camp in May and easing into OTAs has nothing to do with slow starts or poor tackling. they get plenty of contact during training camp AND 4 preseason games. it's about avoiding pointless injuries. going full speed right out of the gate causes injuries from doing explosive movements and pushing your body and muscles too hard when they haven't been acclimated to it for months. besides Wagoner said the D is already playing at full speed and looks like they're in mid season form. and wagoner's not one to throw out easy compliments.
 

Rmfnlt

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ok I can understand ppl looking for reasons to the slow starts but no mini camp in May and easing into OTAs has nothing to do with slow starts or poor tackling. they get plenty of contact during training camp AND 4 preseason games. it's about avoiding pointless injuries. going full speed right out of the gate causes injuries from doing explosive movements and pushing your body and muscles too hard when they haven't been acclimated to it for months. besides Wagoner said the D is already playing at full speed and looks like they're in mid season form. and wagoner's not one to throw out easy compliments.
Just playing devil's advocate here... but, if it's such a good idea, why haven't at least some other coaches adopted it?

Fisher is just smarter than the rest? We get injuries anyway... and no wining records.

Like I've said... were it me? I'd switch things up a little... can't hurt (more than it could hurt any of the other teams that are no doing it this way).
 

Akrasian

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Is there any reason that the team can't have a mini-camp, AND keep things easy? Just use it as additional time for rookies and vets to get used to the system?

No contact, but have them learn the offense and defense better, extra time for the coaches to work with the players? I see no reason that the team would have to risk injury if Fisher doesn't want to - but with the latest CBA there just isn't enough time for coaches to work with players. Fisher's innovative - why doesn't he alter what is normally done in minicamp, but still hold one?
 

Rams43

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I can wrap my mind around Fisher's reasoning on mandatories. I just don't agree with it.

Here's my logic...

We're the only team that skips them.

Our regular season starts have been dismal under Fisher. And they're getting worse each year.

Perhaps it's not the skipping of the mandatories, but SOMETHING is causing us to stumble while coming out of the gate.

Fisher needs to find it and correct it. That's part of his damned job!

The End.
 

VegasRam

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I can wrap my mind around Fisher's reasoning on mandatories. I just don't agree with it.

Here's my logic...

We're the only team that skips them.

Our regular season starts have been dismal under Fisher. And they're getting worse each year.

Perhaps it's not the skipping of the mandatories, but SOMETHING is causing us to stumble while coming out of the gate.

Fisher needs to find it and correct it. That's part of his damned job!

The End.


Could be we were a developing (read - not too good) team with no QB.
 

blackbart

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Just playing devil's advocate here... but, if it's such a good idea, why haven't at least some other coaches adopted it?

Fisher is just smarter than the rest? We get injuries anyway... and no wining records.

Like I've said... were it me? I'd switch things up a little... can't hurt (more than it could hurt any of the other teams that are no doing it this way).
How many of the other coaches in the league actually played in the league? Fisher's methods come from his personal experience and saying they have not worked is just not true. If Bradford had been healthy the last two years the win loss records would have been much different. Thinking the team has not produced with the scrubs they've had at QB, really? Fisher isn't going anywhere after this season
 

Afro Ram

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ok I can understand ppl looking for reasons to the slow starts but no mini camp in May and easing into OTAs has nothing to do with slow starts or poor tackling. they get plenty of contact during training camp AND 4 preseason games. it's about avoiding pointless injuries. going full speed right out of the gate causes injuries from doing explosive movements and pushing your body and muscles too hard when they haven't been acclimated to it for months. besides Wagoner said the D is already playing at full speed and looks like they're in mid season form. and wagoner's not one to throw out easy compliments.

I never said have them go to war during ota's. And as someone who played football I can assure you it does take a little time for just about every player to get used to contact. If you see the defensive players going for arm tackles rather than lining up and wrapping the offensive player up that's normally a good indicator of a player reluctant to be physical.

I'm not even criticizing Fishers strategy so much as I'm personally used to a different approach. Most trainers regiments do basically go all out from the beginning, because the body responds better and sees greater results then easing your way into a workout. That's something I learned a long time ago from my own workout regiments.

As for injuries go there is no set formula for how or when they will occur. People have their theories, there are professionals who studied and researched it, but yet players still get injured even with little to no contact. The body is a machine that responds to being pushed you act like these aren't twenty year old kids barely out of college in the best shape of their lives.

Once again this all my theories and personal perspective. I'm not a NFL head coach or a former NFL player, but I know a slow start and sloppy play when I see it. It's been three years of these slow starts and I think it's perfectly reasonable to site Fishers off season strategy as the probable cause.
 

blackbart

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Once again this all my theories and personal perspective. I'm not a NFL head coach or a former NFL player, but I know a slow start and sloppy play when I see it. It's been three years of these slow starts and I think it's perfectly reasonable to site Fishers off season strategy as the probable cause.

Fair enough but what would you attribute it to for others teams that follow the more traditional approach?
 

Robocop

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I never said have them go to war during ota's. And as someone who played football I can assure you it does take a little time for just about every player to get used to contact. If you see the defensive players going for arm tackles rather than lining up and wrapping the offensive player up that's normally a good indicator of a player reluctant to be physical.

I'm not even criticizing Fishers strategy so much as I'm personally used to a different approach. Most trainers regiments do basically go all out from the beginning, because the body responds better and sees greater results then easing your way into a workout. That's something I learned a long time ago from my own workout regiments.

As for injuries go there is no set formula for how or when they will occur. People have their theories, there are professionals who studied and researched it, but yet players still get injured even with little to no contact. The body is a machine that responds to being pushed you act like these aren't twenty year old kids barely out of college in the best shape of their lives.

Once again this all my theories and personal perspective. I'm not a NFL head coach or a former NFL player, but I know a slow start and sloppy play when I see it. It's been three years of these slow starts and I think it's perfectly reasonable to site Fishers off season strategy as the probable cause.
im actually a personal trainer and also played some ball and can tell you jumping into workouts and training programs cold can be a bad idea cus it does raise the risk of injuries although others prefer a fast start and so do I sometimes. but we aren't talking about a little gym injury to sideline a guy for a week or two. this is much more intense and the types of explosive movements used on the practice field aren't your typical gym injuries and they can end a season or even a career. it's about ligament strength and tendon strength and other soft tissue damage. yes freak injuries can always occur but again in my opinion which I stand firmly on, skipping a bullshit week of mini camps throwing unconditioned rookies into high speed drills is the reason these injuries are happening around the league. these rookies are NOT conditioned like Fisher said. they've been out of it for months and you can lose endurance and muscle and reflex strength in a matter of only 3-4 weeks. and now they gotta play at a pro level speed even faster. I'm not sure how you can connect skipping rookie mini camp and easing into June OTAs has any impact after a full month of full speed training camp and once again 4 preseason games where starters normally play against other starters for at least a quarter each game for a month. half the players the Rams have been starting the last 3 years have been rookies. it doesn't matter how prepared they get during camp cus it won't compare to the real deal. there's a learning curve for them that unfortunately they'll have to adapt to at the begining of the season. and last year the D started out rough cus of very complex schemes and lots of young players and only real game experience can help sharpen that. and once again not to mention not having a quarterback and a fucking dumbass for an OC and then previously a dumbass in Walton. very long story short there is no way fishers to blame for a slow start cuz he skipped a few walk through 'practices' 2-3 months before the season. Fisher is an upstanding coach faults aside he is all about his men and doing what's best for them from injuries to financial counseling to making sure they are set up for success. sorry I might sound like a dick but it's driving me nuts that many here believe skipping a few bullshit practices for player safety months before the season starts is why we've come out the gate slow. only a million other variables you could blame it on starting with the above examples from lack of competent play calling and youth. you should look up OTA and training camp injury stats around the league compared to the Rams, I haven't looked but I better it's been low compared to others. just my two cents. Wagoner seems pleased with OTA's and you should ask our very own @RamzFanz who's been watching OTA's how he thinks the players and their speed and aggressiveness has been the past week.
 
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12intheBox

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Don't mess with success. If this team ever gets off to a slow start, then we can complain. But they are always ready to roll week 1.

Or whatever.
 

Afro Ram

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Fair enough but what would you attribute it to for others teams that follow the more traditional approach?

That's the mystery question of the day. Like I said there seems to be no formula for avoiding injuries. I don't know statistically how the Rams injuries compare to other teams, but it seems to have been a little high.

Either way Fisher isn't changing his formula. Hopefully things improve. I'm a strong believer that this young team needs to find a way to stay healthy and get off to a fast start to have a successful season.
 

Rabid Ram

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I can wrap my mind around Fisher's reasoning on mandatories. I just don't agree with it.

Here's my logic...

We're the only team that skips them.

Our regular season starts have been dismal under Fisher. And they're getting worse each year.

Perhaps it's not the skipping of the mandatories, but SOMETHING is causing us to stumble while coming out of the gate.

Fisher needs to find it and correct it. That's part of his damned job!

The End.
Maybe the lack of a starting qb has a lil bit to do with it?
 

DaveFan'51

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I hate reading Wagoner these days, so I don't!!
OK, I read the 1st paragraph, period!
I Like Fishers approach, I don't think he should change it. He has his players interest in mind!!
 

drasconis

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If Bradford had been healthy the last two years the win loss records would have been much different. Thinking the team has not produced with the scrubs they've had at QB, really? Fisher isn't going anywhere after this season
While I agree that a healthy Bradford helps this team to a better record overall it doesn't excuse the slow starts. I admit it, probably becasue it is the most recent season, but the game against MIN last year is a good example. The D gave up plenty of points (yes 7 pts were an interception return) and the QB situation wasn't a surprise at that point yet we scored 6. The team should have had plenty of time to prepare to having a weaker QB (it isn't like SB went down in that game), heck it was the fewest points given up by MN last year. Scoring 6 points in the first game screams you are not prepared (anyone else hear Illidan when I typed that?) , failing to sack Matt Cassel (who got sacked 6 times in the next 2 games) screams the team wasn't prepared.
 

blackbart

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While I agree that a healthy Bradford helps this team to a better record overall it doesn't excuse the slow starts. I admit it, probably becasue it is the most recent season, but the game against MIN last year is a good example. The D gave up plenty of points (yes 7 pts were an interception return) and the QB situation wasn't a surprise at that point yet we scored 6. The team should have had plenty of time to prepare to having a weaker QB (it isn't like SB went down in that game), heck it was the fewest points given up by MN last year. Scoring 6 points in the first game screams you are not prepared (anyone else hear Illidan when I typed that?) , failing to sack Matt Cassel (who got sacked 6 times in the next 2 games) screams the team wasn't prepared.
Bradford went out in the last preseason game and they had a scrub journeyman and a guy who was out of football for a backup plan and Hill did not last the full game against Minnesota. 2 major screw ups having Bradford play behind Long and not having a better back up. They needed a better start but mostly they needed a better QB