First yr dual threat QBs

[Dxmissile]

I felt like this deserved its own thread if not merge it with the other one..

We were talking about simplifying things for Goff and @dieterbrock brought up Cam newton and Marcus Mariotta. I stated that it's easier to simplify things when you have a dual threat QB to work with instead of a pure passer like Goff.

Cam newton
Completion rate 60% 4051 passing yards 21 touchdowns 17 int.
Rushing
126 rushing attempts 706 yards 14 touchdowns

Marcus Mariotta
62.2%completuon rate 2818 yards 19 touchdowns 10 interceptions
Rushing
34 rushing attempts 252 yards 2 touchdowns

RG3
65.6% completion rate 3200 yards 20 touchdowns 5 interceptions
Rushing
120 rushing attempts 815 yards 7 touchdowns

Vince Young
2199 yards 12 touchdowns 13 interceptions
Rushing
83 rushing attempts 552 yards 7 touchdowns

When you think about it most of the dual threat qbs had success in their first yr because they represented a different aspect in that same token most of all the pure passers have struggled in their first yr like Manning and others.

 

[dieterbrock]

I felt like this deserved its own thread if not merge it with the other one..

We were talking about simplifying things for Goff and @dieterbrock brought up Cam newton and Marcus Mariotta. I stated that it's easier to simplify things when you have a dual threat QB to work with instead of a pure passer like Goff.

Cam newton
Completion rate 60% 4051 passing yards 21 touchdowns 17 int.
Rushing
126 rushing attempts 706 yards 14 touchdowns

Marcus Mariotta
62.2%completuon rate 2818 yards 19 touchdowns 10 interceptions
Rushing
34 rushing attempts 252 yards 2 touchdowns

RG3
65.6% completion rate 3200 yards 20 touchdowns 5 interceptions
Rushing
120 rushing attempts 815 yards 7 touchdowns

Vince Young
2199 yards 12 touchdowns 13 interceptions
Rushing
83 rushing attempts 552 yards 7 touchdowns

When you think about it most of the dual threat qbs had success in their first yr because they represented a different aspect in that same token most of all the pure passers have struggled in their first yr like Manning and others.

The point you are missing though is that these duel threat QB being allowed to run these plays in the NFL were plays that allowed them to operate in their comfort zone, helped build their confidence. Their coaches allowed them to do what they do, had they pigeon holed them in to an offense not suited to their needs, they could have seen their confidence and production affected as well.

 

[Dxmissile]

The point you are missing though is that these duel threat QB being allowed to run these plays in the NFL were plays that allowed them to operate in their comfort zone, helped build their confidence. Their coaches allowed them to do what they do, had they pigeon holed them in to an offense not suited to their needs, they could have seen their confidence and production affected as well.

lol that's the point I'm making.. tell me what is Goff comfort zone. You want him to run shotgun all day when he can't read blitz it's only so much that they can do to make it simple for Goff without the defense keying on everything

 

[dieterbrock]

lol that's the point I'm making.. tell me what is Goff comfort zone. You want him to run shotgun all day when he can't read blitz it's only so much that they can do to make it simple for Goff without the defense keying on everything

Lol
You think a 5 step drop from center against a blitz is more effective than shotgun? Good grief.
Although it is nice to meet you Mr Boras

Pick a thread if you want to discuss, cant go back and forth in multiple threads....

 

[Dxmissile]

Lol
You think a 5 step drop from center against a blitz is more effective than shotgun? Good grief.
Although it is nice to meet you Mr Boras

Pick a thread if you want to discuss, cant go back and forth in multiple threads....

Lmao stop putting words in my mouth to justify what you saying. Who said anything about a 5 step drop. You the one who wants to run a 2 minute offense the entire game. But when a guy can't read defenses being in shotgun to expose him to zone blitz schemes is a disaster. How many interceptions how many sacks how many fumbles because we know he can't hold onto the ball. Our scheme was simple run the ball playaction don't get much simpler then that.

 

[Merlin]

Dual threat QBs have an easier settling in period in the NFL due to the fact the DEs need to think contain. It changes everything. But if they don't adjust to being a pocket passer, or at the least to using their athleticism for scramble drill to allow receivers to get open vice running into the teeth of the defense, they are also going to have a short shelf life just like running backs.

If you want to draft a guy who you can count on for 10-15 years, it's the guys who can stay in the pocket and sling it. Ideally, though, they'll have some ability to elude the rush and buy time behind the LOS.

 

[Dxmissile]

Dual threat QBs have an easier settling in period in the NFL due to the fact the DEs need to think contain. It changes everything. But if they don't adjust to being a pocket passer, or at the least to using their athleticism for scramble drill to allow receivers to get open vice running into the teeth of the defense, they are also going to have a short shelf life just like running backs.

If you want to draft a guy who you can count on for 10-15 years, it's the guys who can stay in the pocket and sling it. Ideally, though, they'll have some ability to elude the rush and buy time behind the LOS.

That's the point I was trying to make that it's easier to simplify things for a running QB then a pocket passer. now yr 2 is different they have to be able to pass the ball because the defense knows to adjust

 

[Dxmissile]

We might if we in position to get Lamar Jackson next year

 

[Dxmissile]

Lmao

 

[dieterbrock]

Lmao stop putting words in my mouth to justify what you saying. Who said anything about a 5 step drop. You the one who wants to run a 2 minute offense the entire game. But when a guy can't read defenses being in shotgun to expose him to zone blitz schemes is a disaster. How many interceptions how many sacks how many fumbles because we know he can't hold onto the ball. Our scheme was simple run the ball playaction don't get much simpler then that.

The 5 step drop is primarily the offense they stuck Goff in, which is just about the worst thing to do against the sustained pass rush they were facing. As for reading defenses, no 1st year QB can. It takes years for that to develop. That's why the OC game plan makes all the difference for a new QB and why you see a guy play well, then the league catch up to him

 

[dieterbrock]

Dual threat QBs have an easier settling in period in the NFL due to the fact the DEs need to think contain. It changes everything. But if they don't adjust to being a pocket passer, or at the least to using their athleticism for scramble drill to allow receivers to get open vice running into the teeth of the defense, they are also going to have a short shelf life just like running backs.

If you want to draft a guy who you can count on for 10-15 years, it's the guys who can stay in the pocket and sling it. Ideally, though, they'll have some ability to elude the rush and buy time behind the LOS.

I don't agree that it makes the defense easier. I believe it gives the QB more confidence in gaining some yardage with his feet. Likewise a pocket passer can gain some confidence with a well designed screen.

 

[Merlin]

I don't agree that it makes the defense easier.

It absolutely does brother. When you're a DE who has to sweat the contain with a guy who has serious wheels it changes everything. The benefit is vs the rush. Rushing a pocket guy is so much easier, you have the inside moves available and can get upfield with much less risk right off the snap.

These guys come into the NFL with that advantage, but as I mentioned the irony is that same advantage tends to shorten careers. Numbers bear that out too. Newton might be able to last given his size, but it's a tough road for QBs who do not adjust to using pocket protection.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Scrambling helps...Many great QB's could run...Elway had a cannon...Since high school...But when he got to the pros, he used his legs a bunch until he could control his cannon. I don't see why we don't go after guys that can scramble, that can grow into becoming a solid pocket QB.
The best QB in the game, Aaron Rod, is so great because while he can throw, he can buy time with his feet. Russell Wilson is effective because of his feet. Why do we treat the marvelous athletes like they have a virus just because they can run, extend plays, and make things happen? Running QB's help an offense. Scrambling. I don't care for the zone read stuff, but that helps too.

 

[Ram65]

What about roll outs?

I don't remember many this year. Bradford had many his first year to help read the field. It's not like Goff can't run either. He is just about as fast as Wentz.