Firing People

[Mister Sin]

sure we have several members here who are in charge of hiring/firing employees. So maybe you can relate.

I've had one of the worst employees of my life working for me for a few months now. He is a great guy to talk to, but is just a pathetic worker. Has zero initiative or pride in his work. I've given him chance after chance to get it right. Saturday, I finally had enough. He made yet another mistake so today I let him go. It was bitter sweet. I'm excited to replace him with someone who will be more eager to work, but I will miss his personality.

The damndest part, when I fired him, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said "okay, sounds good" and that was it. lol dude gave zero fucks. lol I damn near respected him for the utter lack of fucks he chose to give.

But too a more serious note, I hire several levels of employee, he was at the bottom...bottom tier employees are important and my God are they hard to find. Everyone thinks they should be the boss in 6 months.

 

[Angry Ram]

IDK, each situation is different. I'm personally on notice at my place, and it's not that I don't care but I have ZERO fucks if they fire me. So I think it plays from both sides, did you give him all the resources to be successful, or is it all on the EE?

 

[fearsomefour]

Ive had to fire several people and it always sucks. I hate it. But, sometimes cant be avoided. One thing I have noticed is the first it occurs to one that a person needs to go....well, it usually turns out to be an accurate hunch.

 

[Mister Sin]

I gave that guy every chance in the world to succeed. I don't take firing people lightly. I realize that it is, at least momentarily, a life changing event that is almost always avoidable so long as both employee and employee do their parts.

 

[Angry Ram]

I gave that guy every chance in the world to succeed. I don't take firing people lightly. I realize that it is, at least momentarily, a life changing event that is almost always avoidable so long as both employee and employee do their parts.

Then it's probably justified. I'll give you my example, I show up at 6 or 7 in the morning, leave at 3 or 4 pm. I work my tail off. Plus now, I'm taking heat for shit that should've been done months before I was hired. I'm barely 5 months in, and have not had the simple luxury of being told what my responsibilities are, let alone how to approach and do my daily tasks. As a result, things get done late and I have to take the fall. Despite all that, I'm chugging along.

But again, if I walk in tomorrow and get the can, zero fucks. Zero.

 

[Mister Sin]

For me, I would like to hear this from an employee. Is there someone you can express your concerns with?

 

[Angry Ram]

For me, I would like to hear this from an employee. Is there someone you can express your concerns with?

Yeah, to our director herself. She said there's always a billion things to do, and that it's always going to be like this. Well I'm calling bs on that b/c one of my co-workers has been there for 25+ years. He said the previous director was not like this. Relaxed, organized, knew his shit and was willing to teach it to his team. He left b/c this current director got the job over him. Commence chaos, confusion, anger, and lack of caring (from my end).

But, I've heard at this company it's like that at all departments. I've spoken to HR about this and they told me I have to escalate things if I'm not getting responses. Problem is in my department the director NEVER responds even when I pester them, until it's deadline time. Like literally on the day of a legal requirement deadline. THen she'll make us stay late to frantically finish it on time, getting pissed at me in the process. Well had I known the method to do it in the first place, we wouldn't be in this situation.

I get looks from her when I go eat lunch (which I scarf down in 20-30 minutes) and when I leave for the day. She mocks me, shakes her head at me, rude to me, etc. She isn't like that to anyone else.

It's frustrating, in just 5 short months I've gone from excitement to not caring anymore than I have to.

 

[jrry32]

Yeah, to our director herself. She said there's always a billion things to do, and that it's always going to be like this. Well I'm calling bs on that b/c one of my co-workers has been there for 25+ years. He said the previous director was not like this. Relaxed, organized, knew his crap and was willing to teach it to his team. He left b/c this current director got the job over him. Commence chaos, confusion, anger, and lack of caring (from my end).

But, I've heard at this company it's like that at all departments. I've spoken to HR about this and they told me I have to escalate things if I'm not getting responses. Problem is in my department the director NEVER responds even when I pester them, until it's deadline time. Like literally on the day of a legal requirement deadline. THen she'll make us stay late to frantically finish it on time, getting ticked at me in the process. Well had I known the method to do it in the first place, we wouldn't be in this situation.

I get looks from her when I go eat lunch (which I scarf down in 20-30 minutes) and when I leave for the day. She mocks me, shakes her head at me, rude to me, etc. She isn't like that to anyone else.

It's frustrating, in just 5 short months I've gone from excitement to not caring anymore than I have to.

It's too bad you can't go further up the chain and explain what's going on. You'd think that any functional business would care about making itself more efficient and effective.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Yeah, to our director herself. She said there's always a billion things to do, and that it's always going to be like this. Well I'm calling bs on that b/c one of my co-workers has been there for 25+ years. He said the previous director was not like this. Relaxed, organized, knew his crap and was willing to teach it to his team. He left b/c this current director got the job over him. Commence chaos, confusion, anger, and lack of caring (from my end).

But, I've heard at this company it's like that at all departments. I've spoken to HR about this and they told me I have to escalate things if I'm not getting responses. Problem is in my department the director NEVER responds even when I pester them, until it's deadline time. Like literally on the day of a legal requirement deadline. THen she'll make us stay late to frantically finish it on time, getting ticked at me in the process. Well had I known the method to do it in the first place, we wouldn't be in this situation.

I get looks from her when I go eat lunch (which I scarf down in 20-30 minutes) and when I leave for the day. She mocks me, shakes her head at me, rude to me, etc. She isn't like that to anyone else.

It's frustrating, in just 5 short months I've gone from excitement to not caring anymore than I have to.

That's a total failure in leadership, I fucking hate failures in leadership.

I've had to fire a few people, two of them I had no choice (they ND'd with a pistol, they were great guys but you can't do that) and one of them I loved it (he was lying about his military history) because I got to call him on his shit.

Otherwise I've been the guy closer to the bottom, which is where I'm at now.

I give F's in class, which is kind of like firing someone when they complain... I've had girls offer sex for higher grades, people offer bribes, I've been threatened by parents. Most of the time I just shrug it off.

I've given a few F's that were extremely satisfying. One of them refused to "believe" what we were teaching and tried to fight me every step of the way, one of them was just a huge bitch who had an attitude about everything, one of them was a spoiled brat of some powerful people, and one of them was a football player who didn't want to work and tried to cheat to get ahead. Got to have a chat with Jim Mora for that one.

 

[bnw]

Yeah, to our director herself. She said there's always a billion things to do, and that it's always going to be like this. Well I'm calling bs on that b/c one of my co-workers has been there for 25+ years. He said the previous director was not like this. Relaxed, organized, knew his crap and was willing to teach it to his team. He left b/c this current director got the job over him. Commence chaos, confusion, anger, and lack of caring (from my end).

But, I've heard at this company it's like that at all departments. I've spoken to HR about this and they told me I have to escalate things if I'm not getting responses. Problem is in my department the director NEVER responds even when I pester them, until it's deadline time. Like literally on the day of a legal requirement deadline. THen she'll make us stay late to frantically finish it on time, getting ticked at me in the process. Well had I known the method to do it in the first place, we wouldn't be in this situation.

I get looks from her when I go eat lunch (which I scarf down in 20-30 minutes) and when I leave for the day. She mocks me, shakes her head at me, rude to me, etc. She isn't like that to anyone else.

It's frustrating, in just 5 short months I've gone from excitement to not caring anymore than I have to.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to start your job search now. Make sure you leave a letter to HR detailing your reasons for leaving and assume if not insist it being placed in your file. Your boss may well be stupid enough to give you a shitty reference and if so that letter and friendly contacts at that place can overcome a crappy reference.

I've worked for people who could only function under crisis of deadlines and it was almost always self imposed. It is the worst. Good luck.

 

[RamFan503]

I've been on both ends of this many times - well - many times on the firing front.

To Juggs - my input is that this guy knew he wasn't getting it done and had already mentally checked out. He likely needed a change as much as you needed him out. When an employee is at that point, he/she can become a cancer to the rest of the team. It's always been the worst part of my job to let someone go but in virtually all cases, it simply needed to be done. I've been met with anger, apathy, sadness, etc. In my experience, the apathetic give me the least amount of pause in letting them go. They were not going to be a helpful part of the team.

To Angry - It is always easier to find a job when you have a job. Employers far prefer hiring someone away from another company than they do pulling someone off unemployment. That may seem harsh but all else being equal, it is a simple fact. It is also easier for a potential employer to buy into that you are looking to improve your situation by coming to their company. Any employer worth a damn wants his employees to be improving their situation either within their company or by being added to it. It is a good idea to make your job search more about improving your situation more so than getting out of a shitty one. Go positive in your interviews.

Company politics is a sketchy beast. If she is screwing the pooch yet still has a leadership role, it is unlikely that you will outlast her. Best to improve your situation by finding a company you can grow within.

 

[dieterbrock]

I've unfortunately had to fire several employees, and blamed myself for their failure.
That said, I've been in sales for the last 10 years and no longer responsible for anyone but myself. I do see a difference in employee mentality where there are some who have entitlement issues. I honestly don't know how I would have managed that.
As for being in a bad situation, no doubt the best time to look for a job is when you already have one.

 

[Angry Ram]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to start your job search now. Make sure you leave a letter to HR detailing your reasons for leaving and assume if not insist it being placed in your file. Your boss may well be stupid enough to give you a crappy reference and if so that letter and friendly contacts at that place can overcome a crappy reference.

I've worked for people who could only function under crisis of deadlines and it was almost always self imposed. It is the worst. Good luck.

And therein lies the problem with me leaving. .The people on my level and below are great folks. We all help each other out. I honestly believe it's top management. I see at the satellite facilities and sister sites the type of environment they work in. And they are short-staffed yet make it work. My "team" is a clusterfuck.

It sucks. It's my first real gig and it was so hard to land something and I spent so much time, money, and effort to move to Houston and don't want to waste it. I'll just do my best and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[bluecoconuts]

It sucks. It's my first real gig and it was so hard to land something and I spent so much time, money, and effort to move to Houston and don't want to waste it. I'll just do my best and see what happens.

Weren't you looking at a potential gig in Torrance? Follow up with that one, it's another move but it may help.

 

[Angry Ram]

Weren't you looking at a potential gig in Torrance? Follow up with that one, it's another move but it may help.

I was looking everywhere, and yes Torrance was one of them. Problem with California positions, was that it required years of experience. Ended up in Houston, which is fine. Still kinda "beachy".

 

[yrba1]

I've seen a significant number of employees at my workplace give their 2 weeks even with the white-collar positions. This is just my opinion but a lot of it has to do with management burning out a lot of their employees. I've seen them work hard but often times, they still get hounded when even the most minor mistakes occur and from what they've told me, they rarely get positive feedback when things are going well.

When it comes to high turnover at a workplace, I normally see it as an issue with a supervisor or manager. In my department in customer service and sales, my coworkers and I work at least well enough to keep the phone queues, chats, and help desk in check but only our supervisor gives us praise when things are going well and if we take initiative for the department's benefit; however, the manager will counsel everyone about "abuses" in the workplaces while giving positive feedback once in a blue moon.

Not gonna judge on anyone's work situation here since I have zero clue where how your work situations go but overall, it'd be nice if the administration staff at least listens to what their employees have to say and what adjustments can be done to make the workflow more manageable rather than telling them it's an excuse if they can't multitask and then burnout. Employees are capable of multitasking, just don't expect it to be sustainable throughout the day, especially when working full-time or overtime hours.

Overall, I enjoy my time working where I'm at and I genuinely wanted to climb up the latter but management continues to make it harder to convince me to stay there in the long run. I do the best I can to give the impression that I'm not leaving anytime soon, especially with a supervisor who actually tries to address the workflow issues at the very core but I hope that staying at my current workplace will at least help me coordinate with the supervisor to change some of the workflow policies to put future prospects in a position to succeed.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Not much for me to say Tim, @jugs ( hope all is well brother ) As a union member and boss I don't really fire people I lay them off and do not give them a call for the next day or any day in the future, @RamFan503 summed up my feelings pretty darn well. Often times it is a relief to both parties moments after it is done. I almost always go with my gut, give plenty of rope and then act on behalf of those I represent which is also the let go employee's peers. A bad employee affects them as well as you and the situation can become cancerous and cancer needs to be treated.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I was looking everywhere, and yes Torrance was one of them. Problem with California positions, was that it required years of experience. Ended up in Houston, which is fine. Still kinda "beachy".

Are you getting any valuable training and work experiance?

 

[Riverumbbq]

When it came to my firing people, the issues were usually so clear that it wasn't much of a problem. It was rare for me to find employees that weren't motivated, as most of them were receiving tips, and if you aren't performing at a decent level, your income takes a quick hit. I've owned restaurants, bars and a location motion picture catering company, and other than the catering, these can be fairly high employee turnover businesses. From my experience, firings are usually associated with 1 of 3 issues, ... stealing, not showing up for work or being under the influence. The stealing was usually bartenders or back of the house guys like prep workers & dishwashers, most of my 'under the influence' dealings were cooks with alcohol/drug related problems. I've never really had a waitress that needed to be fired unless she was missing too many days, many of the conflicts are often between each other with personality issues or fighting over specific patrons which are known to be better tippers, as well as fighting with hostesses to either get them more 'tables' or 'better' customers. I've had cooks exchange food with bartenders for drinks even though all employees received deep discounts for their own food, I've caught employees heading out the back door with huge roasts & bottles of liquor. There was one point where I had to keep the walk-ins locked. The catering crews were my most professional employees and never really caused concern, but the restaurant side will have you wanting for eyes in the back of your head. jmo.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I've seen a significant number of employees at my workplace give their 2 weeks even with the white-collar positions. This is just my opinion but a lot of it has to do with management burning out a lot of their employees. I've seen them work hard but often times, they still get hounded when even the most minor mistakes occur and from what they've told me, they rarely get positive feedback when things are going well.

When it comes to high turnover at a workplace, I normally see it as an issue with a supervisor or manager. In my department in customer service and sales, my coworkers and I work at least well enough to keep the phone queues, chats, and help desk in check but only our supervisor gives us praise when things are going well and if we take initiative for the department's benefit; however, the manager will counsel everyone about "abuses" in the workplaces while giving positive feedback once in a blue moon.

Not gonna judge on anyone's work situation here since I have zero clue where how your work situations go but overall, it'd be nice if the administration staff at least listens to what their employees have to say and what adjustments can be done to make the workflow more manageable rather than telling them it's an excuse if they can't multitask and then burnout. Employees are capable of multitasking, just don't expect it to be sustainable throughout the day, especially when working full-time or overtime hours.

Overall, I enjoy my time working where I'm at and I genuinely wanted to climb up the latter but management continues to make it harder to convince me to stay there in the long run. I do the best I can to give the impression that I'm not leaving anytime soon, especially with a supervisor who actually tries to address the workflow issues at the very core but I hope that staying at my current workplace will at least help me coordinate with the supervisor to change some of the workflow policies to put future prospects in a position to succeed.

High turnover is absolutely a fail by upper management.
It's management that needs to filter the people that have to be there and spend more effort on people that want to be there.
Employees that have to be there are generally there for payday. They go through the motions and do just enough to get by.
Employees that want to be there are there everyday, putting in quality time.

I don't have to hire people very often, but when I do it may take quite a few candidates before I find the right employee. Personality is just as important as experiance, sometimes even more important.
If I hire someone that causes problems and is more concerned about what everyone else is doing, they won't last long with me.
I have a large group of people that have worked for me for many years. It takes time, but is well worth the effort. I want my employees to enjoy their coworkers.

Firing is rarely an easy thing to do.