Donald is so so good, but does he leave us exposed?

[theramsruleUK]

Now I don't pretend to be a massive X's and O's guy (although I put people to the sword on Madden, ) but I did notice something last Sunday.

Donald is so quick off the snap and so good with his hands, that he's often in the backfield before the running back has even received the ball (nothing we didn't know already). Now this is all well and good if he makes the play and tackles the back, but if he doesn't, it can leave a massive lane open.

I remember something that JL55 said in Donalds top 100 players segment.. "it can leave linebackers out to dry, but he's making those plays".. Well I think we saw on Sunday what happens when Donald is unable to make the plays and I think opposition teams will now gameplan this. Maybe teams will say " lets take the occasional tackle for loss if it means we gain 10-15 yards more regularly, getting guards and centers up to the second level and by using Donalds strength against him and turning it into a weakness.
Thoughts?

 

[fastcat]

I heard the skins allowed him to get in the backfield because he was so fast and relied on the guards to block the backers instead and run away from him. Donald is the least of our worries and arguably the best play on the entire team. This guy is gonna be in the HOF as long as he stays healthy! His tackle for lost and sack stats are amazing for a Dt. Plus Donald plays the 3 technique that means his responsibility isn't to hold up blockers.

 

[LumberTubs]

Its an interesting point and certainly one worth talking about because on at least one of their big runs, Donald 'over pursued.' He was in the backfield so fast but quickly had to slam on the brakes and try to turn back up field after the RB had gone past him.

Teams will always try to nullify another team's strengths including individual players and Donald is so disruptive that opponents will try to come up with a plan to use against him. Washington have showed the rest of the league how to do that and its now up to him and the coaches to counter that. Maybe he needs to be less aggressive when defending the run. I don't know. I'm not an X's and O's guy either.

I don't see how getting into the backfield as quickly as he does can possibly be a bad thing on passing downs especially when the D ends are forcing a QB to step up towards him. But Washington have shown how it can be a negative in the run game. Others on the D line need to help to prevent O lineman getting their hands on LBs too.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Maybe teams will say " lets take the occasional tackle for loss if it means we gain 10-15 yards more regularly, getting guards and centers up to the second level and by using Donalds strength against him and turning it into a weakness.

A couple of the articles after the game touched on this. The Rams coaches guessed wrong a couple of times on the 2nd and longs. They sent Donald on the attack and paid the price.

The skins used the Rams d's greatest strength and weaknesses against them. They let Donald loose then they used the lbers inability to get off blocks to spring their rbs on long runs and tds.

Even the Rams knew they were out coached on the day.

.

 

[Ramrasta]

I don't think it was necessarily a problem in the running game. Most of the successful runs were off tackle where the DEs lost contain on the edge and nobody could get off a block.

It was definitely a problem with the screen passes though. I saw several times where we had the whole defensive line bite on the blitz play and then Cousins deliver a dink pass to the RB with blockers already in the second level. No adjustments were made rafter the first few times this happened.

 

[junkman]

It's a nonsense argument against Donald. It is the responsibility of every single defensive player to get off their block(s) and make a play, and Donald does that better than any other Ram. The Redskins best success wasn't trapping Donald, it was either holding him, tripping him, and in some cases tackling him from behind. But it still forced the action off tackle where we needed other players to do their jobs. Lauranatis really held up poorly against the run imho. Quinn didn't dominate his edge like he has in the past. And McLeod / Jenkins didn't get the stuff that leaked through when we needed them to.

The bottom line on this was that the Rams D just didn't make enough plays at the critical times. But Donald is the last guy we should be looking at and complaining.

Worth noting, PFF has Donald rated as the top rated player in the entire NFL (!!!) with +18.0, an awesome number two weeks in, a trend that would give him a better PFF number than JJ Watt any of his last three DPOY seasons. Current #2 (leading the pack behind Donald) is Geno Atkins at +12.1 followed by Justin Houston at +11.6.

 

[theramsruleUK]

The bottom line on this was that the Rams D just didn't make enough plays at the critical times. But Donald is the last guy we should be looking at and complaining.

Not sure where you saw any complaining? and it's not a nonsense argument because the fact is, if he misses the back, there is a a much bigger lane for the runner to hit and it exposes our linebackers.
This is not a complaint on donald, just pointing out what I saw. If anything it has more to do with scheme and coaching than Donalds traits

 

[junkman]

Not sure where you saw any complaining? and it's not a nonsense argument because the fact is, if he misses the back, there is a a much bigger lane for the runner to hit and it exposes our linebackers.
This is not a complaint on donald, just pointing out what I saw. If anything it has more to do with scheme and coaching than Donalds traits

Any time you shed a block, you're creating a lane and releasing a blocker downfield. But you've cut off more than your share of field and redirected the ball somewhere else. You still want every defensive player to get off their blocks and make a play. Thats the essence of a single gap system like the Rams play.

The alternative, having Donald stay on his blocks and push the blocker into the back is not effective technique, at least not for a 3 tech. Maybe you want a 3-4 NT to do that but not a 3 tech.

As it happens, we have on our team arguably the most dynamic, most productive 3 tech in football. We should revel in his success and disruptiveness.

PS - Donald had zero missed tackes against Washington, and 6 all of last year. Forcing a RB to run away from you e.g. to redirect the play off tackle is still a "win". If nobody is there, its because those guys aren't getting off their blocks, not Donalds fault for dominating his guy.

 

[12intheBox]

It's up to the D Coordinator to account for AD winning so often. If he shoots a gap, it's because he was supposed to shoot that gap and the D should be ready for him to have shot that gap.

It would be different if he was just freelancing out there - but that's not what was happening.

 

[theramsruleUK]

Any time you shed a block, you're creating a lane and releasing a blocker downfield. But you've cut off more than your share of field and redirected the ball somewhere else. You still want every defensive player to get off their blocks and make a play. Thats the essence of a single gap system like the Rams play.

The alternative, having Donald stay on his blocks and push the blocker into the back is not effective technique, at least not for a 3 tech. Maybe you want a 3-4 NT to do that but not a 3 tech.

As it happens, we have on our team arguably the most dynamic, most productive 3 tech in football. We should revel in his success and disruptiveness.

PS - Donald had zero missed tackes against Washington, and 6 all of last year. Forcing a RB to run away from you e.g. to redirect the play off tackle is still a "win". If nobody is there, its because those guys aren't getting off their blocks, not Donalds fault for dominating his guy.

Totally agree with that, reigning him in would be totally pointless and stupid. What I'm trying to say is that because he's so good at what he does, we need to assume that he'll be in the backfield and have the right people in the right places behind him to account for it if he's unable to make the tackle.

 

[-X-]

Now I don't pretend to be a massive X's and O's guy (although I put people to the sword on Madden, ) but I did notice something last Sunday.

Donald is so quick off the snap and so good with his hands, that he's often in the backfield before the running back has even received the ball (nothing we didn't know already). Now this is all well and good if he makes the play and tackles the back, but if he doesn't, it can leave a massive lane open.

I remember something that JL55 said in Donalds top 100 players segment.. "it can leave linebackers out to dry, but he's making those plays".. Well I think we saw on Sunday what happens when Donald is unable to make the plays and I think opposition teams will now gameplan this. Maybe teams will say " lets take the occasional tackle for loss if it means we gain 10-15 yards more regularly, getting guards and centers up to the second level and by using Donalds strength against him and turning it into a weakness.
Thoughts?

Well, you're right in a sense. Teams can counter over-pursuit, and in some cases they can allow it to happen. We see it on screen plays all the time. But after watching the game on rewind, I didn't see that as a strategy by the Washington Chopblockers. If that was something that they were causing to happen, you can easily blitz, stack or stunt to fill the void. The issue was what was happening on plays designed to run away from him.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I remember something that JL55 said in Donalds top 100 players segment.. "it can leave linebackers out to dry, but he's making those plays".

Interesting comment from our MLB......This is a Donald thread topic so let me stop....However, AD is the Least of our concerns. They are running away from him on most plays....

 

[RAGRam]

I think what leaves us most exposed is every player who isn't Aaron Donald.

 

[F. Mulder]

The guy is JUST getting started in his 2nd year. Teams are already gameplanning him. He is a smart and dedicated enough player that he will learn, as top DTs like Sapp et al, learned, on what is going on or how to defeat what is happening. I'll take Donald getting eaten up on a few plays where he penetrates deep into the backfield and actually offers the chance for big negative plays (and still has 10 guys allegedly behind him to have his back) than someone who doesn't have that ability. I don't know if it will be this season, or further down the road, but the stuff they have caught Donald on now will NOT be factors in the future and the results will be hugely disrputive plays.

 

[jrry32]

Well, you're right in a sense. Teams can counter over-pursuit, and in some cases they can allow it to happen. We see it on screen plays all the time. But after watching the game on rewind, I didn't see that as a strategy by the Washington Chopblockers. If that was something that they were causing to happen, you can easily blitz, stack or stunt to fill the void. The issue was what was happening on plays designed to run away from him.

Yea. Some of those chop blocks were too effective. Like I'd see Donald about to beat his man and then the other OL would dive for him and he'd just happen to go down when the guy wasn't in position for a good block. Hard to tell but it seemed like they were dragging him down by the legs rather than actually cutting him.

 

[GabesHorn]

Why can't we move AD around and have it be a surprise as to which Gap he is gonna BLOW UP? I think we have an opportunity to wreak havoc and by NOT being creative with it until we get our other highly talented DL to perform different skills and positions on the line we leave the other team to make hay out of our positives.

I'd have hoped we'd of had Ayers ready to play many roles in concert with the packages G. Williams is suppose to specialize in. I thought the addition of Ayers and his speed to get home on a sack over other's who had trouble getting there. Ben is harder to bring down than most QB's so this week more than most will be a challenge as well as a fresh L. Bell gets his first start this season on our turf. Hope he comes out rusty.

We need to use our weapon that other teams don't have and we have 3 others that are'nt chopped liver. Lets move our guys around to our benefit. Ben calls his own plays so he may read AD and check into or away from where we place him. Plus they do it in hurry -up mode.

One of you defensive BRILLIANT MINDS here explain how we turn this to just OUR benefit. Can't it be done?

 

[Mackeyser]

Yet another reason why Brockers is such an important part of the DL.

 

[LesBaker]

Yet another reason why Brockers is such an important part of the DL.

Yup, he's playing very well and is unheralded right now.

He and AD are a great combo in the middle of that line. What team has a better tandem?

 

[Sleepy1711]

So it's Donalds fault now? Wth?

 

[jrry32]

Why can't we move AD around and have it be a surprise as to which Gap he is gonna BLOW UP? I think we have an opportunity to wreak havoc and by NOT being creative with it until we get our other highly talented DL to perform different skills and positions on the line we leave the other team to make hay out of our positives.

I'd have hoped we'd of had Ayers ready to play many roles in concert with the packages G. Williams is suppose to specialize in. I thought the addition of Ayers and his speed to get home on a sack over other's who had trouble getting there. Ben is harder to bring down than most QB's so this week more than most will be a challenge as well as a fresh L. Bell gets his first start this season on our turf. Hope he comes out rusty.

We need to use our weapon that other teams don't have and we have 3 others that are'nt chopped liver. Lets move our guys around to our benefit. Ben calls his own plays so he may read AD and check into or away from where we place him. Plus they do it in hurry -up mode.

One of you defensive BRILLIANT MINDS here explain how we turn this to just OUR benefit. Can't it be done?

We do move him around.