Davin Joseph and O line reconfiguration possibilities

[SteveBrown]

From another person:

Rams43
May 30, 2014 03:25AM


Here's junkman68...

OK, I've watched three halves of Tampa football now on NFL rewind, and I'm going to reverse myself a bit. I think Davin Joseph has a legit chance to start, and I think he puts Barksdale's spot at risk once Long comes back to take his LT spot.

I know Joseph's whole year PFF grade in 2013 was terrible (ranking him 80/81), BUT he put it together for the last 5 games of the year with a neutral PFF grade. "Neutral" for an NFL guard on PFF would rank him around 35/81 among Gs.

So I watched 3 of those 5 games on NFL rewind (first half only), against San Fran, StL and Carolina, chosen because of their stout DLs. What I saw from DJ was very consistent from game to game. On running plays, he's very physical and a bit nasty. He has a jolting punch which I can't believe is legal because it looks so high. He takes solid shots at the DTs before getting to the 2nd level where he just manhandes LBs (SF Brooks and Bowman, Ogletree and Laurinaitis, Kuechly and Beason). He also turns DTs and stays engaged on them through the play. On passing downs, the only player I saw who made him look bad was Chris Long who shot the B gap on a stunt inside, but the QB took a short pass to escape the sack. From the Rams, he took on Hayes and Langford. Both tried to get an inside shoulder on DJ and he just mirrored them out of the play. San Fran and Carolina didn't really challenge him, a sign of respect? On more than a few occasions, I saw players just stop playing once DJ engaged them. After watching him myself, I'm honestly not sure why he only had a neutral grade on PFF for those games, and I'm starting to understand the pro-bowl thing. Three halves of football against great defenses and I only saw one negative play. On occasion he let blocks go early and occasionally a player could get to a ball carrier by diving at DJs feet... but those are nits.

So I'm intrigued.

~~~

In terms of where DJ plays, he's been a RG his entire career (which also says good things about DJ, RG is typically the most important OL spot for running plays). Sooo... as a few previous posters said, if Long is not ready, I could easily imagine...

Saffold - Robinson - Wells/BJones - Joseph - Barksdale

But it gets interesting when Long comes back if they put him at LT. Barksdale would not be a good RG (not a good run blocker) and Joseph is not a RT. So that begs the question, are the Rams better with:

Long - Robinson - Wells/BJones - Joseph - Saffold or
Long - Robinson - Wells/BJones - Saffold - Barksdale

Hmmm....

SBrown add:

Long-Saffold-Jones-Joseph-Robinson

 

[DR RAM]

Last one, when everyone is healthy, AND Joseph is 100%. Pick the best Center though, who? Don't know yet, but I'll be watching closely.

 

[jjab360]

At this point in time, Joseph is not a better RG than Barksdale is a RT. He was absolutely terrible last year, and honestly wasn't much better than average before the injury. He was overrated, tbh, still a very good backup, but not good enough to keep any of our 5 starters off the bench.

 

[den-the-coach]

Joseph is protection for Jake Long and for the most part until the thrid pre-season IMO the offensive line will look like this...

LT...Saffold
LG...Robinson
C...Wells
RG...Joseph
RT...Barksdale

Come September Morn...

LT...Long
LG...Robinson
C...Wells
RG...Saffold
RT...Barksdale

 

[ZigZagRam]

At this point in time, Joseph is not a better RG than Barksdale is a RT. He was absolutely terrible last year, and honestly wasn't much better than average before the injury. He was overrated, tbh, still a very good backup, but not good enough to keep any of our 5 starters off the bench.

I was formulating my response in my head and my first sentence was almost word-for-word with what you said.

Well said and 100% spot on.

 

[laramsoriginal]

Long
Robinson , Davin
Jones , Barnes
Saffold , Davin
Barks

 

[den-the-coach]

Long
Robinson , Davin
Jones , Barnes
Saffold , Davin
Barks

IMO, Wells will start at center barring injury.

 

[SteveBrown]

IMO, Wells will start at center barring injury.

Barnes not Barret Jones backing up??....It seems like Barret Jones would save an important roster spot....and that way they
could keep an extra safety/corner.

 

[den-the-coach]

Barnes not Barret Jones backing up??....It seems like Barret Jones would save an important roster spot....and that way they
could keep an extra safety/corner.

I'm sure they could keep both with Jones playing Guard, however, I agree, if Rhaney impresses than maybe they can deal Barnes, but with Wells injury history with the Rams you have to be carefu.

 

[ReddingRam]

Don't forget B.Jones' ability to play OT. Jones is the most versatile of all our OL. Although OT isn't his "best" spot, he did play it at a high level at Ala.. While at Alabama, B.Jones started at OT, OG and C and won awards at all three positions. Center is his best because of his intelligence, but I think Coach Boo can get him ready for anywhere along the OL.

 

[BonifayRam]

Don't forget B.Jones' ability to play OT. Jones is the most versatile of all our OL. Although OT isn't his "best" spot, he did play it at a high level at Ala.. While at Alabama, B.Jones started at OT, OG and C and won awards at all three positions. Center is his best because of his intelligence, but I think Coach Boo can get him ready for anywhere along the OL.

Yep this is some of my thoughts on Barrett too. If Boudreau has a great desire not to yank-shift & plug like he has had to do so often the last two years with mostly terrible results ...he could use Barrett as the 6th OL'er. If he assembles his best five Ol'ers in the posts that assist them playing their IMO it should be look like below:
OLT-Long
OLG-Robinson
OC-Barnes
ORG-Saffold
ORT-Barksdale

Barrett at this time is the only real bona fide capable prospect to back up OT we have in reserve. But Boudreau has four OT's starting. IF Boudreau does go with the four OT's as starters ...this indicates two things....#1 they have no issues with yank-shift & pull all over again or #2 they have no concerns with Barrett subbing for either OT spots. One thing we know injuries to our OL come early, come often and then repeat themselves. Barrett Jones (who as of yet as yet to enter play in the NFL) & Joseph(who has very little experience outside the ORG post) should be our 6th & 7th OL'ers.

Next up should be extreme versatile Mike Person as the 8th, he can play all five OL positions in many of his NFL TC & pre season events with 3 other NFL teams the passed three seasons. A sure emergency mostly OT but lacks any NFL size to be anything other than a back up. Rams seem to really like having him around.

The rest of the bunch is a toss up but I believe OC Rhaney will fight it out with Brandon Washington OLG/ORG to fill a roster spot @#9. It should would be helpful if ORT Van Dyk could surprise & make the master roster after a good TC & pre season. Boudreau needs him to come through. I would expect the Rams to carry 10 OL'ers once again.

If course all this would change if for some reason Center Tim Barnes is not what I think he is & Jones end up @ center or veteran Center Scott Wells is retained thus making Barnes able to push the older vet Joseph.

 

[Boffo97]

At this point in time, Joseph is not a better RG than Barksdale is a RT. He was absolutely terrible last year, and honestly wasn't much better than average before the injury. He was overrated, tbh, still a very good backup, but not good enough to keep any of our 5 starters off the bench.

Agreed. Sometimes people get so excited about the new toys, that they forget the old toys were pretty fun too.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The only reasons the Rams would have to cut Wells is if Jones or Barnes beats him for the starting role....he gets a season ending injury in camp....Jones or Barnes look close enough to Wells ability in camp that the trade or release him to get cap room to sign or trade for someone.

Otherwise Wells is the starter. Cutting him for cap space doesn't help the Rams as long as they ate under the cap and done adding players.

 

[fearsomefour]

Yep this is some of my thoughts on Barrett too. If Boudreau has a great desire not to yank-shift & plug like he has had to do so often the last two years with mostly terrible results ...he could use Barrett as the 6th OL'er. If he assembles his best five Ol'ers in the posts that assist them playing their IMO it should be look like below:
OLT-Long
OLG-Robinson
OC-Barnes
ORG-Saffold
ORT-Barksdale

Barrett at this time is the only real bona fide capable prospect to back up OT we have in reserve. But Boudreau has four OT's starting. IF Boudreau does go with the four OT's as starters ...this indicates two things....#1 they have no issues with yank-shift & pull all over again or #2 they have no concerns with Barrett subbing for either OT spots. One thing we know injuries to our OL come early, come often and then repeat themselves. Barrett Jones (who as of yet as yet to enter play in the NFL) & Joseph(who has very little experience outside the ORG post) should be our 6th & 7th OL'ers.

Next up should be extreme versatile Mike Person as the 8th, he can play all five OL positions in many of his NFL TC & pre season events with 3 other NFL teams the passed three seasons. A sure emergency mostly OT but lacks any NFL size to be anything other than a back up. Rams seem to really like having him around.

The rest of the bunch is a toss up but I believe OC Rhaney will fight it out with Brandon Washington OLG/ORG to fill a roster spot @#9. It should would be helpful if ORT Van Dyk could surprise & make the master roster after a good TC & pre season. Boudreau needs him to come through. I would expect the Rams to carry 10 OL'ers once again.

If course all this would change if for some reason Center Tim Barnes is not what I think he is & Jones end up @ center or veteran Center Scott Wells is retained thus making Barnes able to push the older vet Joseph.

It does play out in an interesting way. Jones offers more versatility than Barnes or Washington. There is no reserve depth at T at all as you've stated, but, like you said that depth is on the line starting.
You can only prepare so much for multiple injuries. Being able to put guys in places that make sense is about it, playing as a unit....thats another story.
To me an interesting battle for backup spots inside. Barnes, Jones, Washington, Joseph. Jones and Barnes make the most sense in therm of playing multiple spots.
Joseph may indeed be a hedge against Long being back on time.
I think Wells is the starter. Barnes was no better than him last year and Wells has a ton of experience. The likelihood of the Oline (now with considerable investment) calls being left to someone with 0 NFL game experience in Jones seems like a reach to me.
Long/Robinson/Wells/Saffold/Barksdale/Jones/Barnes/Pearson
If the Rams go with 8 I think that is it. A long way to go however.

 

[Merlin]

The OL is a position where things can get surprising this year in camp. The Rams have quite a few developmental players that may make a move for solid backup or even starting level jobs.

Jones is the best example of that. Rams redshirted him and don't really know what they have yet. I fully expect him to challenge for a starting job because his technique was very good coming out of college and he had played a lot of starting snaps at different positions against strong competition. We haven't heard anything on him yet, but that is because they haven't seen him in pads actually blocking anyone yet. I predict by a couple weeks into camp we are going to start hearing some good things about him and the word will start leaking out where the Rams plan to play him.

Just IMO if Long can't start the first game we are going to see Jones at whichever OG position slides over to LT. Best case scenario in that situation is that Robinson slides out to LT which means he surprises everyone with his feet and ability. Which is possible, btw, given coaching by Boudreaux and him going against the best RDE in the game in Quinn every day in practice.

OL is going to be the position I enjoy watching develop the most this year because of that effect by the depth.

 

[den-the-coach]

If course all this would change if for some reason Center Tim Barnes is not what I think he is & Jones end up @ center or veteran Center Scott Wells is retained thus making Barnes able to push the older vet Joseph.

You and I disagree on Barnes..I felt he really struggled against strong run defense like the 49ers and Seahawks. Big difference with Wells manning center against the Seahawks in St. Louis and Barnes manning center in the last game of the year.

Barnes also came from Missouri where they did not run much and he was more of a shotgun center and pass blocker. IMO Barnes really struggled at the point of attack and IMO I have some concerns and that is why I support the keeping Wells because the Rams offensive line is better with Scott Well than Tim Barnes.

Not seen enough of Barrett Jones as you posted, however, I think the offensive line would struggle with Tim Barnes being number one week in and week out, but maybe he'll make an adjustment and will be better at run blocking this season.

 

[BonifayRam]

You and I disagree on Barnes..I felt he really struggled against strong run defense like the 49ers and Seahawks. Big difference with Wells manning center against the Seahawks in St. Louis and Barnes manning center in the last game of the year.
Barnes also came from Missouri where they did not run much and he was more of a shotgun center and pass blocker. IMO Barnes really struggled at the point of attack and IMO I have some concerns and that is why I support the keeping Wells because the Rams offensive line is better with Scott Well than Tim Barnes.
Not seen enough of Barrett Jones as you posted, however, I think the offensive line would struggle with Tim Barnes being number one week in and week out, but maybe he'll make an adjustment and will be better at run blocking this season.

Yes we do have some differences on Barnes....den you mention two games in which you thought he struggled....The 2nd 9ers game was the game where Wells broke his leg in the 2nd quarter. This 9ers game was Barnes first NFL action @ center in a regular NFL game. When Barnes entered the game the Rams were down 13-0. Kellen Clemens & the Rams lost the game 23-13. I thought that he fared well enough to enter that game in SF under such pressure.

You also brought up the OL disaster in the last 2013 season game in a Hostile Seattle who proved to be the best team in the NFL. When you look who Tim Barnes was playing with when the game ended......

OLT Chris Williams who was the Rams 4th OT it was his first time he had lined up @ OLT for the Rams, for injured Roger Saffold who was starting for injured Jake long.
OLG Brandon Washington who was the Rams 5th OG it was his first time ever lining up in the NFL during regular season action who was starting for Williams.
ORG Shelley Smith Rams 4th OG who replaced Rodger Saffold who replaced Harvey Dahl.

Rams only had one of their original positional starters in the game. In addition the move of OLG Chris Williams to OLT.... reason is the Boudreau has the OLG working close with the Rams center in shot gun snaps & assisting the center with making and seeing line calls....having Brandon Washington playing OLG was the final death blow in that very loud stadium may have been one of the most damaging situation that occurred. So IMO I will not judge Tim Barnes so harshly under those conditions. I think that the passed two years under Boudreau has made Barnes a much better center than what we saw in college.

 

[Boffo97]

So as a visual aid, this is our offensive line this year...

 

[DR RAM]

Yes we do have some differences on Barnes....den you mention two games in which you thought he struggled....The 2nd 9ers game was the game where Wells broke his leg in the 2nd quarter. This 9ers game was Barnes first NFL action @ center in a regular NFL game. When Barnes entered the game the Rams were down 13-0. Kellen Clemens & the Rams lost the game 23-13. I thought that he fared well enough to enter that game in SF under such pressure.

You also brought up the OL disaster in the last 2013 season game in a Hostile Seattle who proved to be the best team in the NFL. When you look who Tim Barnes was playing with when the game ended......

OLT Chris Williams who was the Rams 4th OT it was his first time he had lined up @ OLT for the Rams, for injured Roger Saffold who was starting for injured Jake long.
OLG Brandon Washington who was the Rams 5th OG it was his first time ever lining up in the NFL during regular season action who was starting for Williams.
ORG Shelley Smith Rams 4th OG who replaced Rodger Saffold who replaced Harvey Dahl.

Rams only had one of their original positional starters in the game. In addition the move of OLG Chris Williams to OLT.... reason is the Boudreau has the OLG working close with the Rams center in shot gun snaps & assisting the center with making and seeing line calls....having Brandon Washington playing OLG was the final death blow in that very loud stadium may have been one of the most damaging situation that occurred. So IMO I will not judge Tim Barnes so harshly under those conditions. I think that the passed two years under Boudreau has made Barnes a much better center than what we saw in college.

I really have never saw what the Rams see in Brandon Washington. Too slow footed, and not enough power. I don't think he will make the 53 this year.

 

[BonifayRam]

I really have never saw what the Rams see in Brandon Washington. Too slow footed, and not enough power. I don't think he will make the 53 this year.

Yes I agree with you DR Ram here ....If veteran center Scott Wells is retained which is a very good thing by the way... it would force centers Barnes & Jones to take thier talents to other posts to fill other spots that Brandon Washington would normally compete with. Both Barnes & Jones along with Joseph & Person all bring so much more to the OL than Washington IMO. BW making this years 53 player roster very very hard IMO.

Its still very early here but this OL from 2013 to 2014 looks much stronger. Some of the big new changes this season is where Snead has replaced starters OLG Chris Williams with OT/OG Greg Robinson, ORG Harvey Dahl with OT/ORG Roger Saffold in the OG posts. This is a major upgrade of talent here @ these two posts. Even the center post has been beefed up beside Wells, Barnes now has 5 games under his belt being in the line up as starter. Jones is now healthy and appears much bigger & in shape, New quick fast drafted Rhaney!

I would even claim the OT posts have been beefed too where last yr we had JL/RS/JB & CW as our OT's we now have JL/JB/RS & the first round #2 overall draft pick in Greg Robinson. This season Barksdale enters as a starter with 15 heavy NFL games under his belt. JL's health is a very big cold wet blanket here but even if he is not fully 100% we have more than enough to hold the line until he is.