Coaching Success: A moving scale?

[PARAM]

I heard some discussion on the radio today about Andy Reid and the Chiefs losing on Sunday. The host of the program (NFL Network, I forget who it was) said "Reid always has a good team, is in the postseason more often than not but has been to just 1 Superbowl. And you really can't hold that against him"......I'm assuming as far as his legacy/history goes. I disagreed out loud (yeah talking to the radio is rarely a good thing). His record is as follows:

18 years as a head coach
12 postseason berths
1 Superbowl appearance
1-4 in Conference Championships

If it wasn't for his one Superbowl appearance, he's Marty Shottenheimer all over again. Marty was a head coach for 20 years with 13 postseason appearances. 0 Superbowls and 0-3 in Conference Championship Games. Sooner or later it's gotta get old. If you were an owner when Marty was an active coach, the smart thing to do would be hire him, let him build you a winner and then find somebody to get them over the hump before Marty worked them into the ground. If I were Hunt, I'd be looking for a guy to get the Chiefs over the hump. Speaking of the Chiefs, they must feel like the snake bit kings. Marty and Andy and DV!!! 0 Superbowls. That's 19 years with one of those 3 at the helm, 15 winning seasons, 11 double digit winning seasons, 11 postseason berths and 0 Superbowl appearances.

I don't know what's worse, going through what the Rams have or being a Chief fan? I'm kinda glad we're on our 4th coach since Martz left. At least we're not finding a guy who wins in the regular season but can't deliver the team to the pinnacle of the sport.

There are very few Chuck Nolls, Tom Landry's and Don Shula's. I guess we'd have to agree the modern model is Belichick. 22 years, 15 postseason appearances, 6 Superbowl appearances with 4 wins. There have been guys like Vermeil, Holmgren and Reeves who took 2 teams to a Superbowl but even they are just 2-7 in the big game. Shannahan was good but couldn't get a 2nd team back. Coughlin didn't get the Jags there (2 Conference Championship Losses) but did win 2 with the Giants despite just 5 postseason berth in 12 years there. Gruden looked like the next Big Winner but alas, even he petered out and took on a broadcasting job, which he refuses to abandon despite yearly offers. Even his record, though good wasn't like the great ones (11 years; 5 postseason appearances; 2 CC games @ 1-1 and 1 Superbowl win). Mike McCarthy has a wonderful record; 11 years 9 postseason berths but just one Superbowl (1-2 in Conference Championship Games). He has a chance to better that significantly this year.

So what do we expect with our young genius? Great things right? But how great? And how long do we give him? In today's NFL he had better make the playoffs very soon and once there, he better make it to a Superbowl and once there he better win one. And having done all that if he needs to do it again or he could be JUST LIKE Jon Gruden. If he doesn't get there, he'll just be another Marvin Lewis. Genius on one side of the ball.

Thoughts?

 

[Dxmissile]

No I rather had what the chiefs had because a couple breaks her Or thereakes or break a team in the playoffs at that point it's about the desire and will of the players it's not too often the chiefs have gotten blown out in the playoffs they just haven't got the breaks the other team had.

 

[dieterbrock]

 

[Mojo Ram]

Idk about Reid but the Chiefs have one playoff win since 1993(a victory over the 9-7 Texans a year ago). They're fools gold in the postseason.

 

[Selassie I]

There's only 1 winner every year... just 1.

I have 2 die-hard cowgirl fans who work for me. I didn't even want to make eye contact with them yesterday... much less bring up the game. They are both so miserable about being bounced out that I realized that they are even more miserable than I have been. They have a great o-line, new badass QB and RB, in the playoffs, very bright future, etc... but those poor bastards are literally more miserable and frustrated with their team than I am with ours. I told em both today that they were both nuts.

There are going to be 31 miserable as fuck fan bases every single year. That's the truth in all of this.

 

[Rambitious1]

I heard some discussion on the radio today about Andy Reid and the Chiefs losing on Sunday. The host of the program (NFL Network, I forget who it was) said "Reid always has a good team, is in the postseason more often than not but has been to just 1 Superbowl. And you really can't hold that against him"......I'm assuming as far as his legacy/history goes. I disagreed out loud (yeah talking to the radio is rarely a good thing). His record is as follows:

18 years as a head coach
12 postseason berths
1 Superbowl appearance
1-4 in Conference Championships

If it wasn't for his one Superbowl appearance, he's Marty Shottenheimer all over again. Marty was a head coach for 20 years with 13 postseason appearances. 0 Superbowls and 0-3 in Conference Championship Games. Sooner or later it's gotta get old. If you were an owner when Marty was an active coach, the smart thing to do would be hire him, let him build you a winner and then find somebody to get them over the hump before Marty worked them into the ground. If I were Hunt, I'd be looking for a guy to get the Chiefs over the hump. Speaking of the Chiefs, they must feel like the snake bit kings. Marty and Andy and DV!!! 0 Superbowls. That's 19 years with one of those 3 at the helm, 15 winning seasons, 11 double digit winning seasons, 11 postseason berths and 0 Superbowl appearances.

I don't know what's worse, going through what the Rams have or being a Chief fan? I'm kinda glad we're on our 4th coach since Martz left. At least we're not finding a guy who wins in the regular season but can't deliver the team to the pinnacle of the sport.

There are very few Chuck Nolls, Tom Landry's and Don Shula's. I guess we'd have to agree the modern model is Belichick. 22 years, 15 postseason appearances, 6 Superbowl appearances with 4 wins. There have been guys like Vermeil, Holmgren and Reeves who took 2 teams to a Superbowl but even they are just 2-7 in the big game. Shannahan was good but couldn't get a 2nd team back. Coughlin didn't get the Jags there (2 Conference Championship Losses) but did win 2 with the Giants despite just 5 postseason berth in 12 years there. Gruden looked like the next Big Winner but alas, even he petered out and took on a broadcasting job, which he refuses to abandon despite yearly offers. Even his record, though good wasn't like the great ones (11 years; 5 postseason appearances; 2 CC games @ 1-1 and 1 Superbowl win). Mike McCarthy has a wonderful record; 11 years 9 postseason berths but just one Superbowl (1-2 in Conference Championship Games). He has a chance to better that significantly this year.

So what do we expect with our young genius? Great things right? But how great? And how long do we give him? In today's NFL he had better make the playoffs very soon and once there, he better make it to a Superbowl and once there he better win one. And having done all that if he needs to do it again or he could be JUST LIKE Jon Gruden. If he doesn't get there, he'll just be another Marvin Lewis. Genius on one side of the ball.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's on a sliding scale so much as it is subjective.

 

[FRO]

Give me Andy Reid any day of the week.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I guess it depends on your perspective.

I live in Cowgirl country... to be honest, they took it better than I thought they would.

Why?

I think because they believe they'll be back there again next year. Makes sense, given their youth at the skill positions. But nothing's a given.. how many QBs go through that sophomore slump. But I digress...

They took it pretty well because there is hope... and there is a basis for hope... a real basis.

Probably similar to the Chiefs... their fans have a basis for hope... they are consistently good.

And the Packers... and the Steelers... and, of course, the Patsies.

Rams fans? We've been beaten down for decades now... the only hope has really been baseless, if you're gonna be honest with yourself.

Now we have a new HC and he's building out a staff. Is he a basis for real hope? I'm gonna reserve judgement and see how things turn out.

If this team starts to get into the playoffs consistently, the basis returns.

I hope that day comes soon because, quite frankly, that kind of hope beats the shyte out of the hope that's been floating around Rams Park for far too many years!

 

[Merlin]

I have a lot of respect for Reid. Chiefs fans need to STFU and enjoy what they have. Appreciate it when you have a team that is in the mix instead of taking it for granted. There aren't too many coaches out there better than Andy, it's a very short list IMO.

 

[Mikey Ram]

Personally I can readily see for me which would be more difficult: going through what I've gone through with the Rams or being a Chefs fan...I would bemoan the lack of finishing power but at the same time would really enjoy the post season trips much more than 7- 9, 4- 12, et cetera

 

[Bruce2980]

I was never one to really believe that winning a Super Bowl is everything. I don't see Marino as less of a QB. I think having a respectable team is much more important than a losing one for sure. Look at the LA Rams in the 70's, oh how I long for those days. A great defense, competent offense, perennial division winner, Super Bowl appearance, much better than most of the 90s and much better than the last ten years. Sure the agony of a playoff loss is horrendous, but they have therapy and alcohol, and now even herbs in some states. But feeling pain for a little while is much better than the feeling of disgust and embarrassment at the level of incompetence for 3/4 or 1/2 of a season. Give me a playoff loss over that any day.

 

[TexasRam]

How many Super Bowls has Billicheck had without Tom Brady?

In Reid's defense, he can only do so much with Alex Smith.

It's hard to go deep without a top QB. Not impossible but hard. Green Bay loses last week if not for Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Ram65]

How about our own Rams. Lot's of winning seasons in the late 60's through 80's but only one lost SB appearance.

Bam 1999 SB Champions!

Another lost SB appearance and then nothing but failure after a championship game lost to Carolina.

I'll take the Super Bowl win and then the misery we have suffered though lately. I'm not sure how much more losing I can take though. I feel for Andy Reid though.

 

[1maGoh]

Belichick is an aberration, not the new standard. Everyone can't have 6 super bowl appearances. The upper third of teams can't have 6 super bowl appearances in that time frame. The NFL has been trying to level the playing field (supposedly, but doing a very good job of not doing it) so that fans of all teams can see their team in the playoffs and super bowl. Andy Reid is a successful coach because his team's always have a chance. Saying belichick is the new standard for success means there's 31 unsuccessful head coaches in the NFL. I just can't buy that.

And I'd much rather be in the playoffs than pissed off asking about who our 4th coach since our last playoff appearance is going to hire to fix the o live. If the team is exciting to watch and is in the playoffs more often than not, I'd call that a success. Give me something to talk trash to other fans about. That's all I want.

 

[Warner4Prez]

How many Super Bowls has Billicheck had without Tom Brady?

In Reid's defense, he can only do so much with Alex Smith.

It's hard to go deep without a top QB. Not impossible but hard. Green Bay loses last week if not for Aaron Rodgers.

They also lost a few in the playoffs with A-Rod and a healthy Jordy Nelson. When the playoffs start, all bets are pretty much off, regardless of the QB. Flacco caught fire one year, decrepit Peyton pulled it out over MVP Cam, the Giants limped in and beat the juggernaut Pats.

 

[Rmfnlt]

When the playoffs start, all bets are pretty much off, regardless of the QB.

That's why I'd prefer to at least get into the playoffs on a somewhat consistent basis.

If you never get in, you never have a chance.

But, once in, anything is possible.

Let's get in soon!!!

 

[dieterbrock]

I'd love Reid.

Look at it this way, The Rams have had only 7 winning seasons.....




In Sean McVay's entire life....

 

[DaveFan'51]

There's only 1 winner every year... just 1.

I have 2 die-hard cowgirl fans who work for me. I didn't even want to make eye contact with them yesterday... much less bring up the game. They are both so miserable about being bounced out that I realized that they are even more miserable than I have been. They have a great o-line, new badass QB and RB, in the playoffs, very bright future, etc... but those poor bastards are literally more miserable and frustrated with their team than I am with ours. I told em both today that they were both nuts.

There are going to be 31 miserable as freak fan bases every single year. That's the truth in all of this.

As an Owner, having Coaches like Shottenheimer, and Reid work real well, they Win each Season, and The Fans always have High hopes for the next Season!! The $$$$$$ Roll in!!

As a Fan you love the Winning, But you want the BIG ONE!! Shotty went what, 14-2 in San Diego and got canned! Crazy!! But! That's Football!

I'd settle for a few Conference Championships at this point in time!

 

[PARAM]

I get it. But it is subjective. It is a moving target. For a fanbase who hasn't seen the postseason since 2004, we'd take losing there every year, year in and year out. Because it's better than what we have now. Sure we'd take Andy Reid or even Marty Shottenheimer type performances. Because it's better than what we have now. But given a coach who gets to the postseason 2 out of every 3 years and losing there will get old. It will get frustrating. "Getting Andy over the hump" isn't the answer. Andy, like Marty will never get over the hump. Or to be fair, may eventually get over the hump. Maybe. Who wants that every year? I'm not saying take what the Rams have given us the last 12 years but what the Patriots, Steelers or Packers have given their fans the last dozen years or so.

Which brought me to McVay. I expect him to be that genius. I expect him to get us competetive. I expect him to get us into the post season 2 out of every 3 years. And that will be a wonderful change over what we've had lately. But given that, given his genius, innovation and talents he's still going to have to win in the postseason and get to a Superbowl. Having done that, he'll have to win a Superbowl. I went through the Knox I experience. It was great! We had a dominant defense. A terrific team. But we got beat by the Cowboys or Vikings every year. It got old....quickly. Given what we eventually morphed into of course I'd take Knox I over and over and over again. Until it got old all over again.

Maybe this time we got the right guy. Maybe we got the young, upcoming soon-to-be-dominant genius. Maybe we got the head coach who will hit the ground running and never look back. And won't that be a fun experience?

 

[tomas]

Hopelessness.
Hope for the hopeless!