Can the Defence pick themselves up and help the Offence?

[shaunpinney]

I never thought I'd use a title like that, but our D isn't as good as last year and that sucks. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be done?

I think it starts and finishes in the trenches, if our D-line can be as dominant as it was last year, then I think our secondary doesn't look so vulnerable, we're not get the pressure on the QB this year like last, we sure needed it in these last two games. We could have easily rattled Taylor and Stafford had we gone after them early on. I know we've been injury hit in that unit, and I hope that everything is now going to sort it self out and we get everyone back fighting it.

Is it that:

1. opposing lines have worked us out;
2. are they physically more imposing this year;
3. are we throwing in too many tricks and stunts and not executing the basics;
4. are we choosing the wrong formations / not changing at the line of scrimmage;
5. it's just the injuries and our squad being paper thin?
6. are we just in a defensive slump, we usually have them early in the seasons!

I'm sure if we pressure the QB to have 0.5 / 1s less processing time, it would aid the CBs etc.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

 

[AllGasNoBrakes]

This is what happens when you have your #1 DE out, Franchise CB out, and 2 starting D linemen coming back from injury. The QB will absolutely have more time.

Really I think the bigger issue is the injuries to our Defense. Lots of injuries to starters means one thing -- your players are being overworked. Our defense has been overworked.

I blame the incompetent offense for leaving our defense out to dry so often early this season. Now that our offense is figuring out, it might be too late by the time our D is 100% again.

 

[shaunpinney]

This is what happens when you have your #1 DE out, Franchise CB out, and 2 starting D linemen coming back from injury. The QB will absolutely have more time.

Really I think the bigger issue is the injuries to our Defense. Lots of injuries to starters means one thing -- your players are being overworked. Our defense has been overworked.

Should we be rotating the line more then to avoid injuries? Are they training TOO HARD?

I blame the incompetent offense for leaving our defense out to dry so often early this season. Now that our offense is figuring out, it might be too late by the time our D is 100% again.

Isn't that fault with the coaching though by not getting both O & D firing at the same time? Or are we just talking about execution?

 

[lockdnram21]

BiGgest problem is cb and I don't think it will be fixed this season unless we make a trade

 

[Fatbot]

our D isn't as good as last year

Seems about the same to me. Inconsistent flashes of sieve against the run interspersed with momentary peeks at how dominant it can be. Without Quinn it's a struggle to get any sort of pass pressure. More stressful when its 3rd-and-20 than 3rd-and-1. Playing up or down to its competition. All seems pretty familiar.

Biggest difference is probably the red zone defense allowing more TDs, but since red zone performance is based a lot on luck and small sample size it's not a big surprise that the Rams have regressed. But it shouldn't be to this extent, I expect the Rams will tighten up in the red zone over the rest of the season and final defense rankings will look a lot like last year. So the same good but not crossing into elite as we hope could happen year after year.

 

[Legatron4]

BiGgest problem is cb and I don't think it will be fixed this season unless we make a trade

Anyone out there we could trade for? That was my thinking too.

 

[thirteen28]

I think there are things they can do to adjust better to the things they can't control. But you can't discount injuries that are hitting us on that side of the ball.

There is a reason that Quinn and TruJo get paid better than most of their peers at their respective positions. It's because others can't do what they do and it's hard to find guys that can do it at that level. Expecting the next man up to come in without a drop off is nice motivational speak, but it's not reality. There is always going to be a drop off when you lose significant talent like that.

 

[RamsJunkie]

I would be all for a trade. Tavon Austin for Vonte Davis maybe?? With Quick and Britt Balling out and with cooper and spruce waiting in the wings I would be OK with trading Austin for a stud CB

 

[LACHAMP46]

We could have easily rattled Taylor and Stafford had we gone after them early on.

I think Taylor was rattled....and except for a few plays, didn't play really well against us....
Stafford on the other hand was gliding in the pocket throwing dimes...He WAS pressured...But found guys for short completions, who then proceeded to run a long way...The only deep pass I remember was that blown coverage by Troy Hill on Taint....every other pass that ended up being long was a short pass with a bunch of yards after the catch...maybe poor tackling was to blame....

Expecting the next man up to come in without a drop off is nice motivational speak, but it's not reality.

This is exactly what good teams do...I'm still of the opinion that most pros have talent...It's the extra work, film room, and motivation that separate them...Put similar players in the Pats system, and watch them resemble what they have now...consequently, put similar players in our system, watch them perform accordingly....

I would be all for a trade. Tavon Austin for Vonte Davis maybe?? With Quick and Britt Balling out and with cooper and spruce waiting in the wings I would be OK with trading Austin for a stud CB

LOLOL! Man after my own heart...We made this Tavon bed, we're gonna have to lie in it...Sorry...LOLOLOLOL!

I see a consensus...however, I am seriously thinking we are either out-maned talent wise at the corner position or the scheme is killing us...I haven't seen the right angles to see how much separation the opponents receivers are getting, but the number of quick passes that are completed is giving me clues. The number of contested passes is telling also...We don't make plays on the ball, and the guys (guy?) that does, Tru Johnson, is hailed as a shutdown corner...The 4th down play, that resulted in a TD, were EJ was right there, but failed to rip the ball out of the receivers hands was telling...and huge....It was like he gave up B4 the guy secured the ball...On 4th down...in the back of the endzone... Really, un-explainable...our corners play scared....and, it's time to stop.

I don't expect to keep Tru...too much money for too many injuries...so, I'm hoping we draft a serious corner...and Gratz/EJ really improve....

 

[lockdnram21]

Anyone out there we could trade for? That was my thinking too.

Not realy

 

[lockdnram21]

I think there are things they can do to adjust better to the things they can't control. But you can't discount injuries that are hitting us on that side of the ball.

There is a reason that Quinn and TruJo get paid better than most of their peers at their respective positions. It's because others can't do what they do and it's hard to find guys that can do it at that level. Expecting the next man up to come in without a drop off is nice motivational speak, but it's not reality. There is always going to be a drop off when you lose significant talent like that.

I'm sorry but Tru just isn't that good... We need somebody that can cover legit #1. Tru isn't the answer even when healthy.

 

[Ellard80]

I'm sorry but Tru just isn't that good... We need somebody that can cover legit #1. Tru isn't the answer even when healthy.

I read some things the pas two years that Tru grades out as a top 10 cornerback in the league. He definitely is good.

Here is a nice stat from profootballfocus...

For the duration of his career, Jenkins’ passer rating allowed is only just shy of 100 (99.5); in the same timeframe, Johnson’s passer rating allowed is 67.1. That mark is better than Josh Norman’s (72.1), Stephon Gilmore’s (84.1), and even Casey Hayward’s (70.2), the stars of the 2012 cornerback class."

Johnson has a career better quarterback rating against better than Josh Norman.

 

[shovelpass]

Overall I think it's on all aspects of the D not performing. But I think our secondary is bad right now, behind Tru we have issues. EJ has looked bad 2 games in a row, Joyner is up and down, and the rest are worse. The scheme sometimes hurts us, but that may be because a lack of talent. We play off coverage because we get beat deep, then they kill us with short passes. But I don't get why we play 5+ yards off on 3rd and short.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I think Taylor was rattled....

I think the 1st Clue to this^^, Was one his 1st play when he lined up behind the Guard for the Snap! But of course I'm sure ONLY 10,000,000 Fans noticed it!! (If I where Williams I would have sent every one after him at that point and after!

 

[lockdnram21]

I read some things the pas two years that Tru grades out as a top 10 cornerback in the league. He definitely is good.

Here is a nice stat from profootballfocus...

For the duration of his career, Jenkins’ passer rating allowed is only just shy of 100 (99.5); in the same timeframe, Johnson’s passer rating allowed is 67.1. That mark is better than Josh Norman’s (72.1), Stephon Gilmore’s (84.1), and even Casey Hayward’s (70.2), the stars of the 2012 cornerback class."

Johnson has a career better quarterback rating against better than Josh Norman.

Yea that's True but he wasn't covering #1s constantly. When he goes against the better receivers he doesn't so as well especially against speed receivers. He had a good game vs Megatron but was mostly because Stafford missed a lot of passes

 

[Zaphod]

Is it that:

1. opposing lines have worked us out;
2. are they physically more imposing this year;
3. are we throwing in too many tricks and stunts and not executing the basics;
4. are we choosing the wrong formations / not changing at the line of scrimmage;
5. it's just the injuries and our squad being paper thin?
6. are we just in a defensive slump, we usually have them early in the seasons!

1. No, Greg Williams has been around a long time, OCs adjusting to him and he adjusting to their adjustments. And he's just the opposite of stubborn, really he's quite creative.
2. Are the offensive lines more physically imposing? I don't think so. If they've committed to any one thing on defense it's the lighter, faster linebackers, one of whom I guess is adjusting to his first season starting as an OLB, and the other starting his first season as a MLB. So when you see one of those guys blocked by a tight end or worse, it's on our secondary to make that tackle now. Hello extra yards.
3. No, well I'm not so sure how many times I'd have Brockers drop into coverage But if anything I think they're bleeding worse than ever without his creativity.
4. Same response as 3. I love the creativity.
5. Yes, this is it. They were paper thin to begin with, and the injuries to the line, plus the franchise cornerback? Of course they're hurting.
6. No, I don't really believe in slumps. Rather, I think different teams have different strengths and weaknesses, and that's just the regular ups and downs of football.​

Cool list of questions though. I think you should have made that a poll as I'd be interested in seeing what everyone thinks on the surface if they were forced to choose one reason.

 

[Zaphod]

I think the 1st Clue to this^^, Was one his 1st play when he lined up behind the Guard for the Snap! But of course I'm sure ONLY 10,000,000 Fans noticed it!! (If I where Williams I would have sent every one after him at that point and after!

That was the first time I'd seen that. I figured he was so busy trying to figure out the defense that he forgot where he was.

 

[thirteen28]

This is exactly what good teams do...I'm still of the opinion that most pros have talent...It's the extra work, film room, and motivation that separate them...Put similar players in the Pats system, and watch them resemble what they have now...consequently, put similar players in our system, watch them perform accordingly....

You can expect people to play their best, but for most DE's, their best isn't Robert Quinn's best, system notwithstanding. He's a special player and one of the best DE's int he league for a reason. Another DE that can do what he does won't be a backup, he will be starting somewhere. And I say, if you put Quinn in the Pats D, they would suddenly get much, much better than they are now.

I'm sorry but Tru just isn't that good... We need somebody that can cover legit #1. Tru isn't the answer even when healthy.

We'll just agree to disagree. We saw what happened Sunday without him and Quinn.

 

[Loyal]

We are not the same team without Brockers and Quinn...As for Quinn, I don't know if we ever get that guy back who can stay healthy long enough to get 19 sacks again....Quinn's body can't be trusted anymore, imo. Another CB would be good, but the ingredients are in the cake, and that sucker is baked in.....

 

[LACHAMP46]

for most DE's, their best isn't Robert Quinn's best............................We saw what happened Sunday without him and Quinn.

Not sure the old Robert is here, or will ever return....Without Quinn...hmmm, that's what we had...Last few games last year too...They still worked the quick passing game that has befuddled us...yep, I used befuddled... extra points CGI/Flv.... who's the mod in here anyway?? Quick passes...if you're not gonna bump the receivers, then you gotta make sure, quick tackles...and we didn't do that...esp at the corners, lb's, and safeties....not sure Quinn could help there...bat a few passes...chase a couple plays down....
Nope, we need an upgrade in talent...at the corners....and definitely a DE to replace the guys we have now...a backup...with some speed & power...

I'm still not pleased we allow 110 yards per game on the ground...We let Fenner look like a HOF'er....and Taint....dancing with pom-poms...okay...

The draft is where it's at...you don't throw picks away...and you can't miss on a top 100 pick...as far as this season....the 3-4 players that can help...one DE to step up...Looking for Longacre to get more time...one corner...the highest rated slacker is Joyner....one safety...need a bunch more from Mo Alexander...and I think this guy can play...we need to always create turnovers....otherwise...3-3 leads to____. Can Josh Forrest bring some more? He played OK, but can he become an impact player? Game changer? If not, who? Because injuries happen...and typically, after an injury, the player is never quite the same.

Oh yeah...all these guys in the pros can play...a little...the difference is the extras...