Borges: Supporters of Terrell Owens need to open their fact books before they open their yaps

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Zero

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Borges: Supporters of Terrell Owens need to open their fact books before they open their yaps
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...ens_need_to_open_their_fact_books_before_they
Ron Borges Friday, February 17, 2017
021617owens1.jpg

Credit: Associated Press
MIXED RECEPTION: Terrell Owens is not in the Hall of Fame, but many other great receivers who played before him still are waiting for the call from Canton.


This is the time of year when people with too little to say and too much time to say it talk the loudest. It is also the time when those with minimal knowledge but access to a microphone or pen make clear that Abe Lincoln was right many years ago when he said: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”

Which brings me to Terrell Owens and the faux “outrage” of some surrounding his failure to gain entry into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in his second year as a candidate.



To them I say: LaVern Dilweg.

To them I say: Billy Wilson.

To them I say: Billy Howton.

To them I say: Sterling Sharpe.

To them I say: Michael Irvin.

To them I say: Cris Carter.

To them I say: Art Monk.

I could go on, but I’ll leave it at that.

What do the first four have to do with T.O. and his “tragic,” “shameful,” “incredible” two-year wait to reach Canton? They are all still waiting.

Dilweg was considered the best end in pro football history until the arrival of Don Hutson. He retired in 1934. He’s still waiting, T.O.

Wilson led the NFL in receiving three times. He made the Pro Bowl six times. No less a passing expert than Bill Walsh repeatedly said he belonged in the Hall of Fame. He retired in 1960. He’s still waiting, T.O.

When Howton retired he was the NFL’s all-time leader in yardage and receptions, breaking Hutson’s long-held records. Not second. Not third like T.O. The leader. He retired in 1963. He’s still waiting, T.O.

Sharpe was on par with Jerry Rice for most of his career, a five-time All Pro and one of only seven receivers to win receiving’s “triple crown” by leading the league in receptions, yards and touchdowns in the same season. He set the single-season record for receptions in 1992 and broke it a year later. He was forced to retire due to a neck injury in 1994. He’s still waiting, T.O.

Owens’ resume and accomplishments are impressive. Not as impressive as Howton’s at the time he retired or Dilweg’s or a lot of other players who had to wait to gain entry into arguably the most exclusive fraternity in professional team sports, but impressive all the same.

Owens’ “problem” is barely 1 percent of all the players who ever played are in the Hall. News bulletin to the Mike Florios of the world: It’s supposed to be hard to get in. That’s what makes it mean so much when it happens.

So how long has Owens waited? Not as long as Michael Irvin. Not as long as Cris Carter. Not as long as Art Monk. Not as long as Andre Reed or Tim Brown or Bob Hayes or all but a handful of the 32 Hall of Fame receivers in NFL history. In fact, only five receivers have been first ballot Hall of Famers — Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Lance Alworth, Paul Warfield and Steve Largent. One can quarrel over the last two perhaps (although not if you ever saw Warfield play, which few of those railing about T.O. did), but not the first three.

New York Daily News writer Manish Mehta couldn’t tell you one thing about Billy Howton and wouldn’t know Warfield if he ran into him in an elevator, yet he’s loudly concluded, as others do every year, that “the system is flawed” and must be changed. The best change, of course, would be putting those folks doing the faux kvetching on the committee. Who are they really trying to get in? T.O. or themselves?

Mehta claimed those who voted against Owens did so because they were either old, out of touch or suffered from “lazy thinking.” He cited Owens’ stats but conveniently left one big one out: Owens not only led the NFL in drops once, he finished in the top four in drops seven other seasons during his 15-year career.

To help those suffering from “lazy thinking,” let me help you. That means for more than half the years he played, Terrell Owens was annually among the top four receivers in drops. Sorry, but that’s not my definition of “first-ballot Hall of Famer.”

It is not a reason to exclude him either, but it is a reason for having happened to Terrell Owens what happened the past two years, which is to say more deserving players who in many cases were waiting longer went in ahead of him. It doesn’t mean the door is closed. It means there are annually more worthy candidates than seats.

I’ve heard some critics say, “How could they put in a kicker ahead of T.O.?” Here’s another way to look at it. How could they not put in one of the handful of players in NFL history named first-team All-Decade in two different decades ahead of someone who was first-team All-Decade in no decades?

Some critical of Owens’ failure to yet be inducted also cited some examples of “supporters” of Owens’ induction. One I found particularly amusing was those citing Bill Parcells, who said in a radio interview, “I think I would. I think I would. . . . He certainly was highly productive and did some very remarkable things on the field.”

But he also said in the same interview, “There are things that go unseen by the public, and people watching the games — there are things that happen on the field that, even when they happen, the fans and the laymen do not recognize what happens, and in his case, he was somewhat unreliable in some of the things he would do. Sometimes we’d have a route that was called at 12 (yards) and he’d run it at 9 (yards). Well, that disrupts your quarterback and things like that. But that being said, he still was highly productive and I do think he warrants very, very strong consideration. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t get in very shortly.”

To that I would add only this: Go look up the definition of lukewarm. After you read it, ask yourself if Parcells’ “endorsement” cries out “injustice.”

Unless you’re a proponent of “lazy thinking,” I’d argue it did not.

Then I’d look up how many times those five receivers who were first-ballot Hall of Famers finished in the top four in drops. After that, you might want to drop your volume a bit on this matter and wait for T.O.’s moment to come, as it rightly will.
**********************************************************************************************************
In my opinion Bruce should be in the hall long before TO.Bruce like Rice was
a true artist of the WR position.Far more dependable in every aspect and did it with
TRUE CLASS.
 

LesBaker

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I loved reading that.

Fuck Owens, he's a jerkoff and the day he gets in the HOF I hope it rains all day just to ruin it.
 

jap

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In my opinion Bruce should be in the hall long before TO.Bruce like Rice was a true artist of the WR position.Far more dependable in every aspect and did it with TRUE CLASS.

Bruce also had to struggle with lesser QB's than Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens enjoyed at first. I cannot remember offhand who QBed the Horns in 1994, Isaac's rookie season when he caught 21 passes. (The stats for the official Horns website only goes back to 1995.) 1995 he snared 119 rocks from Chris Miller and Mark Rypien. Chris had to retire prematurely due to multiple concussions. He possessed a sweet ball when throwing deep. Mark, the ex-Redskin, was past his prime when he played with the Horns. From 1996 through 1998, Isaac collected almost all of his receptions from Tony Banks. It was not until 1999 that he enjoyed his first marque QB in Kurt Warner. in 2000, he caught balls from Kurt and Trent Green. In 2001, it was essentially Kurt again. 2002 and 2003 the QBing was shared by Kurt and Marc Bulger. Kurt was gone to NY by 2004, so it was Marc Bulger and a few backups that fed Isaac through 2007. Isaac last two years (2008 and 2009) was played in 'Frisco, receiving passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, J.T. Sullivan, and Alex Smith.

Bruce did more than Terrell with less talent at QB overall.
 

Ram65

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I found a counter point article that puts the drops into perspective. I think Owens deserves the Hall despite his sometime abrasive personality . It seemed like half his catches he would bobble yet still be running for more yardage and TDs. He had 156 total TDs which puts him one behind Randy Moss in 5th place all time. Very similar all around stats to Ike Bruce except TDs. Bruce only had Warner for a few years throwing to him . Bruce should be in the Hall too. I was never a fan of Owens but, he has the numbers to be in the Hall.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/18/terrell-owens-dropped-passes-as-great-receivers-do/
Terrell Owens dropped passes, as great receivers do
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 18, 2017, 9:10 AM EST
91423138-e1487426918262.jpg
Getty Images
We noted earlier that one Pro Football Hall of Fame voter, Ron Borges, has finally made an on-field case for why Owens should be excluded, that he dropped too many passes. We’ve now taken some time to examine that claim, and we find it to be weak.

Although drops are not an official NFL statistic, Borges appeared to be relying on Stats, LLC, which has tracked drops since the 1990s, for his claim that “Owens not only led the NFL in drops once, he finished in the top four in drops seven other seasons during his 15-year career.” That is true, but missing the important context that league leaders in drops are often among the NFL’s best wide receivers.

After going through all the Stats, LLC, drops data for Owens’ career, I’ve compiled these notes on Owens’ dropped passes in each of his 15 NFL seasons:

1996: Owens dropped just one pass while making 35 catches as a rookie.

1997: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin was second in the NFL with 11 drops, while Hall of Famer Tim Brown was tied for fourth with nine drops.

1998: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops while catching 64.4 percent of the passes thrown to him. His teammate Jerry Rice dropped eight passes and was tied for 12th in drops while catching 54.3 percent of the passes thrown to him.

1999: Owens again dropped five passes, again wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops, and again had better marks than Rice while playing in the same offense: Owens caught 61.2 percent of the passes thrown to him while Rice dropped nine passes and caught 54.0 percent of the passes thrown to him.

2000: Owens dropped 13 passes and was fourth in the NFL in drops. Leading the NFL in drops that year with 16 was RodSmith, who has been discussed as a Hall of Fame candidate.

2001: Owens dropped 10 passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. (Owens also led the league in touchdown catches.)

2002: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for ninth in the NFL. Tied with, among others, Jerry Rice, who dropped the same number of passes while having fewer catches, fewer yards and fewer touchdowns than Owens. Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison led the NFL with 16 drops.

2003: Owens dropped 11 passes and was tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 80 passes for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns and went to the Pro Bowl.

2004: Owens dropped seven passes. There were 17 NFL players who dropped as many or more passes than Owens while catching fewer passes that season.

2005: Owens dropped five passes, tied for 36th in the NFL.

2006: Owens led the NFL with 17 drops. This is Owens’ first year in Dallas and the one and only year when it’s legitimate to argue that he dropped an inordinate amount of passes. It’s also worth noting that he led the NFL in touchdown catches.

2007: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 81 passes for 1,355 yards and 15 touchdowns and was chosen as a first-team All-Pro.

2008: Owens dropped 10 passes, fourth in the NFL. He also caught 69 passes for 1,052 yards and 10 touchdowns.

2009: Owens dropped nine passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. He also led an otherwise terrible Bills passing offense with 55 catches for 829 yards.

2010: Owens was tied with Brandon Marshall for third in drops. Wes Welker was first and Reggie Wayne was second.

So did Owens drop a lot of passes? Sure, especially as his career was winding down in Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati. But a lot of great receivers drop a lot of passes. Is Borges going to argue that Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison should be removed from the Hall of Fame because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens? Is Borges going to argue that RodSmith, Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne don’t have good career résumés because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens?

When you’re knocking a player because he did a lot of bad things — dropped a lot of passes or threw a lot of interceptions or fumbled a lot — it’s important to remember that you can only be in a position to do a lot of bad things if your team is relying on you a lot, and your team is only going to rely on you a lot if you’re a good player. Brett Favre is the NFL’s all-time leader in both interceptions and fumbles, but no one disputes that he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Owens dropped a lot of passes, which tells us that his quarterbacks threw to him a lot, and he got his hands on the ball a lot. A mediocre NFL receiver doesn’t get the opportunity to drop a lot of passes because he doesn’t get open often enough for his quarterback to throw to him, he doesn’t adjust to the ball well enough to get his hands on it, and he doesn’t last long enough to stay on the field if he keeps dropping the ball.

Great receivers like Owens, Rice, Irvin, Brown and Harrison dropped the ball a lot because they got the ball thrown to them a lot. And they got the ball thrown to them a lot because they’re Hall of Famers. At least, all of them but Owens are Hall of Famers. Owens’ absence from Canton says more about voters like Borges than it says about Owens himself.
 

Zero

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Bruce also had to struggle with lesser QB's than Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens enjoyed at first. I cannot remember offhand who QBed the Horns in 1994, Isaac's rookie season when he caught 21 passes. (The stats for the official Horns website only goes back to 1995.) 1995 he snared 119 rocks from Chris Miller and Mark Rypien. Chris had to retire prematurely due to multiple concussions. He possessed a sweet ball when throwing deep. Mark, the ex-Redskin, was past his prime when he played with the Horns. From 1996 through 1998, Isaac collected almost all of his receptions from Tony Banks. It was not until 1999 that he enjoyed his first marque QB in Kurt Warner. in 2000, he caught balls from Kurt and Trent Green. In 2001, it was essentially Kurt again. 2002 and 2003 the QBing was shared by Kurt and Marc Bulger. Kurt was gone to NY by 2004, so it was Marc Bulger and a few backups that fed Isaac through 2007. Isaac last two years (2008 and 2009) was played in 'Frisco, receiving passes from the likes of Shaun Hill, J.T. Sullivan, and Alex Smith.

Bruce did more than Terrell with less talent at QB overall.
Thanks Jap.I know I am a bit bias,but in mind Bruce personified professionalism
in every aspect of the game.Being a good or great player is more than raw numbers.
Were you a good teammate?Did you raise the level of play of those around you?
Did you inspire your teammates or did you drag your team down at every turn?
There is more to the equation than some want to include.
 

Zero

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I found a counter point article that puts the drops into perspective. I think Owens deserves the Hall despite his sometime abrasive personality . It seemed like half his catches he would bobble yet still be running for more yardage and TDs. He had 156 total TDs which puts him one behind Randy Moss in 5th place all time. Very similar all around stats to Ike Bruce except TDs. Bruce only had Warner for a few years throwing to him . Bruce should be in the Hall too. I was never a fan of Owens but, he has the numbers to be in the Hall.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/18/terrell-owens-dropped-passes-as-great-receivers-do/
Terrell Owens dropped passes, as great receivers do
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 18, 2017, 9:10 AM EST
91423138-e1487426918262.jpg
Getty Images
We noted earlier that one Pro Football Hall of Fame voter, Ron Borges, has finally made an on-field case for why Owens should be excluded, that he dropped too many passes. We’ve now taken some time to examine that claim, and we find it to be weak.

Although drops are not an official NFL statistic, Borges appeared to be relying on Stats, LLC, which has tracked drops since the 1990s, for his claim that “Owens not only led the NFL in drops once, he finished in the top four in drops seven other seasons during his 15-year career.” That is true, but missing the important context that league leaders in drops are often among the NFL’s best wide receivers.

After going through all the Stats, LLC, drops data for Owens’ career, I’ve compiled these notes on Owens’ dropped passes in each of his 15 NFL seasons:

1996: Owens dropped just one pass while making 35 catches as a rookie.

1997: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin was second in the NFL with 11 drops, while Hall of Famer Tim Brown was tied for fourth with nine drops.

1998: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops while catching 64.4 percent of the passes thrown to him. His teammate Jerry Rice dropped eight passes and was tied for 12th in drops while catching 54.3 percent of the passes thrown to him.

1999: Owens again dropped five passes, again wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops, and again had better marks than Rice while playing in the same offense: Owens caught 61.2 percent of the passes thrown to him while Rice dropped nine passes and caught 54.0 percent of the passes thrown to him.

2000: Owens dropped 13 passes and was fourth in the NFL in drops. Leading the NFL in drops that year with 16 was RodSmith, who has been discussed as a Hall of Fame candidate.

2001: Owens dropped 10 passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. (Owens also led the league in touchdown catches.)

2002: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for ninth in the NFL. Tied with, among others, Jerry Rice, who dropped the same number of passes while having fewer catches, fewer yards and fewer touchdowns than Owens. Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison led the NFL with 16 drops.

2003: Owens dropped 11 passes and was tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 80 passes for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns and went to the Pro Bowl.

2004: Owens dropped seven passes. There were 17 NFL players who dropped as many or more passes than Owens while catching fewer passes that season.

2005: Owens dropped five passes, tied for 36th in the NFL.

2006: Owens led the NFL with 17 drops. This is Owens’ first year in Dallas and the one and only year when it’s legitimate to argue that he dropped an inordinate amount of passes. It’s also worth noting that he led the NFL in touchdown catches.

2007: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 81 passes for 1,355 yards and 15 touchdowns and was chosen as a first-team All-Pro.

2008: Owens dropped 10 passes, fourth in the NFL. He also caught 69 passes for 1,052 yards and 10 touchdowns.

2009: Owens dropped nine passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. He also led an otherwise terrible Bills passing offense with 55 catches for 829 yards.

2010: Owens was tied with Brandon Marshall for third in drops. Wes Welker was first and Reggie Wayne was second.

So did Owens drop a lot of passes? Sure, especially as his career was winding down in Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati. But a lot of great receivers drop a lot of passes. Is Borges going to argue that Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison should be removed from the Hall of Fame because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens? Is Borges going to argue that RodSmith, Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne don’t have good career résumés because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens?

When you’re knocking a player because he did a lot of bad things — dropped a lot of passes or threw a lot of interceptions or fumbled a lot — it’s important to remember that you can only be in a position to do a lot of bad things if your team is relying on you a lot, and your team is only going to rely on you a lot if you’re a good player. Brett Favre is the NFL’s all-time leader in both interceptions and fumbles, but no one disputes that he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Owens dropped a lot of passes, which tells us that his quarterbacks threw to him a lot, and he got his hands on the ball a lot. A mediocre NFL receiver doesn’t get the opportunity to drop a lot of passes because he doesn’t get open often enough for his quarterback to throw to him, he doesn’t adjust to the ball well enough to get his hands on it, and he doesn’t last long enough to stay on the field if he keeps dropping the ball.

Great receivers like Owens, Rice, Irvin, Brown and Harrison dropped the ball a lot because they got the ball thrown to them a lot. And they got the ball thrown to them a lot because they’re Hall of Famers. At least, all of them but Owens are Hall of Famers. Owens’ absence from Canton says more about voters like Borges than it says about Owens himself.

Ram65. You sir are a commie! :fighting:

Just kidding.I appreciate your counter perspective Bro.(y)
 

Ram65

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Ram65. You sir are a commie! :fighting:

Just kidding.I appreciate your counter perspective Bro.(y)

Thanks. As I stated I never really like TO. He played a little more than half his career with the Whiners. When he came here to the Eagles he really made a difference. I wonder if the Hall is too political. Take Ike for example. He may have been too easy going while playing mostly with poor teams. When he retired he had the second all time receiving yards mark. It's interesting to debate a little every year.
 

dieterbrock

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How many first ballot hall of famers played for 5 different teams?
He belongs in the hall and will get there some day.
Some day should be good enough for him
 

LACHAMP46

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As a Ram fan, I've witnessed several very good 49er wr's play against us...I really liked Leroy Irvin....And the one receiver that he couldn't handle was Jerry Rice.....and TO was even better/worse. If you don't put game changers in the HOF, who do you put in? It would be like leaving JJ Watt, Gronk, or a Luke Keukly off the ballot...Real game changers....Difference makers. That teams look for....Prototypes....The type of players that make fans say, "we need one of those".
.............and on another point...if Terrel Davis gets in the HOF....So should Sterling Sharpe. One of the best wr's I've ever seen as well.
 

jrry32

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Who is this blowhard? I looked up Ron Borges, and he's a Boston sportswriter. Probably is a Patriots fan. He's talking out of his ass (as Patsy fans tend to do). I don't give a shit that TO was a 49er or that you don't like him. The man should be in the HOF by now. He's a top 5 WR of all time. Isaac Bruce should also be in the HOF. But that doesn't make TO any less deserving.

Sportswriters didn't like TO. Now, they're punishing him for it. The jackass baseball sportswriters do the same thing (ex. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens). It's the problem with giving petty journalists power. They're shitting on the HOF's legacy by not putting all time greats in because of petty feuds. The HOF is only meaningful if the guys who deserve it get in.
 

Ramrasta

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TO will eventually be a HOF. Who cares that he has to wait a year? Plenty of deserving players do.
 

RamFan503

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I found a counter point article that puts the drops into perspective. I think Owens deserves the Hall despite his sometime abrasive personality . It seemed like half his catches he would bobble yet still be running for more yardage and TDs. He had 156 total TDs which puts him one behind Randy Moss in 5th place all time. Very similar all around stats to Ike Bruce except TDs. Bruce only had Warner for a few years throwing to him . Bruce should be in the Hall too. I was never a fan of Owens but, he has the numbers to be in the Hall.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/18/terrell-owens-dropped-passes-as-great-receivers-do/
Terrell Owens dropped passes, as great receivers do
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 18, 2017, 9:10 AM EST
91423138-e1487426918262.jpg
Getty Images
We noted earlier that one Pro Football Hall of Fame voter, Ron Borges, has finally made an on-field case for why Owens should be excluded, that he dropped too many passes. We’ve now taken some time to examine that claim, and we find it to be weak.

Although drops are not an official NFL statistic, Borges appeared to be relying on Stats, LLC, which has tracked drops since the 1990s, for his claim that “Owens not only led the NFL in drops once, he finished in the top four in drops seven other seasons during his 15-year career.” That is true, but missing the important context that league leaders in drops are often among the NFL’s best wide receivers.

After going through all the Stats, LLC, drops data for Owens’ career, I’ve compiled these notes on Owens’ dropped passes in each of his 15 NFL seasons:

1996: Owens dropped just one pass while making 35 catches as a rookie.

1997: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin was second in the NFL with 11 drops, while Hall of Famer Tim Brown was tied for fourth with nine drops.

1998: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops while catching 64.4 percent of the passes thrown to him. His teammate Jerry Rice dropped eight passes and was tied for 12th in drops while catching 54.3 percent of the passes thrown to him.

1999: Owens again dropped five passes, again wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops, and again had better marks than Rice while playing in the same offense: Owens caught 61.2 percent of the passes thrown to him while Rice dropped nine passes and caught 54.0 percent of the passes thrown to him.

2000: Owens dropped 13 passes and was fourth in the NFL in drops. Leading the NFL in drops that year with 16 was RodSmith, who has been discussed as a Hall of Fame candidate.

2001: Owens dropped 10 passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. (Owens also led the league in touchdown catches.)

2002: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for ninth in the NFL. Tied with, among others, Jerry Rice, who dropped the same number of passes while having fewer catches, fewer yards and fewer touchdowns than Owens. Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison led the NFL with 16 drops.

2003: Owens dropped 11 passes and was tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 80 passes for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns and went to the Pro Bowl.

2004: Owens dropped seven passes. There were 17 NFL players who dropped as many or more passes than Owens while catching fewer passes that season.

2005: Owens dropped five passes, tied for 36th in the NFL.

2006: Owens led the NFL with 17 drops. This is Owens’ first year in Dallas and the one and only year when it’s legitimate to argue that he dropped an inordinate amount of passes. It’s also worth noting that he led the NFL in touchdown catches.

2007: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 81 passes for 1,355 yards and 15 touchdowns and was chosen as a first-team All-Pro.

2008: Owens dropped 10 passes, fourth in the NFL. He also caught 69 passes for 1,052 yards and 10 touchdowns.

2009: Owens dropped nine passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. He also led an otherwise terrible Bills passing offense with 55 catches for 829 yards.

2010: Owens was tied with Brandon Marshall for third in drops. Wes Welker was first and Reggie Wayne was second.

So did Owens drop a lot of passes? Sure, especially as his career was winding down in Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati. But a lot of great receivers drop a lot of passes. Is Borges going to argue that Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison should be removed from the Hall of Fame because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens? Is Borges going to argue that RodSmith, Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne don’t have good career résumés because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens?

When you’re knocking a player because he did a lot of bad things — dropped a lot of passes or threw a lot of interceptions or fumbled a lot — it’s important to remember that you can only be in a position to do a lot of bad things if your team is relying on you a lot, and your team is only going to rely on you a lot if you’re a good player. Brett Favre is the NFL’s all-time leader in both interceptions and fumbles, but no one disputes that he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Owens dropped a lot of passes, which tells us that his quarterbacks threw to him a lot, and he got his hands on the ball a lot. A mediocre NFL receiver doesn’t get the opportunity to drop a lot of passes because he doesn’t get open often enough for his quarterback to throw to him, he doesn’t adjust to the ball well enough to get his hands on it, and he doesn’t last long enough to stay on the field if he keeps dropping the ball.

Great receivers like Owens, Rice, Irvin, Brown and Harrison dropped the ball a lot because they got the ball thrown to them a lot. And they got the ball thrown to them a lot because they’re Hall of Famers. At least, all of them but Owens are Hall of Famers. Owens’ absence from Canton says more about voters like Borges than it says about Owens himself.
Gotta say that it seems MDS is more upset that Borger disagreed with the group think over at PFT than really anything he said. How dare someone question Florio.

I happen to think getting into a hall of fame is more than stats. Owens hurt himself IMO. The hall should not feel bad about keeping out a turd.
 

Memento

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Gotta say that it seems MDS is more upset that Borger disagreed with the group think over at PFT than really anything he said. How dare someone question Florio.

I happen to think getting into a hall of fame is more than stats. Owens hurt himself IMO. The hall should not feel bad about keeping out a turd.

T.O. is nothing compared to Lawrence Taylor, and the latter is in the Hall.

If the Hall was just about keeping out turds, then we'd be keeping out some otherwise-deserving players.
 

jrry32

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Gotta say that it seems MDS is more upset that Borger disagreed with the group think over at PFT than really anything he said. How dare someone question Florio.

I happen to think getting into a hall of fame is more than stats. Owens hurt himself IMO. The hall should not feel bad about keeping out a turd.

The Hall of Fame is only a meaningful accomplishment if it signifies the place that only accepts the best of the best. Once you start disallowing the best of the best because of perceived character flaws and start letting in lesser players, the Hall of Fame loses all meaning and relevance.

It's not the Hall of Nice People. It's the place where the best of the best pro football players go. Not all of these guys were good people. But all of them should be elite players.
 

Leuzer

Daniel Leu
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2,166
Loved the read, @Zero. I'll add this to the argument:
  • In 1996, Terrell Owens began his career with San Francisco. That year, in a crucial NFC West match-up with Carolina, SF was down 30-24 in the final minutes of the game. Owens had a perfect pass bounce off his hands and right into a Carolina defenders for an INT. Carolina went on to win.

  • In 1997, Owens was played in a 23-10 loss in NFC Title Game versus Green Bay. He racked up some decent stats, but had numerous errors that day that hurt the 49ers chances.

  • In 1998, SF and GB met again in the playoffs. This time Green Bay's defense was much weaker due to the release secondary men Evans and Robinson. The defensive backfield gave Owens multiple chances all game, but Owens dropped just about all of them. Then in the closing seconds of the game, Owens finally holds on to a ball for the touchdown. Everyone remembers "The Catch part 3" but no one remembers Owens playing like garbage all day.

  • In 2001, the 49ers playoff fate was set (Wild-Card at best) when Owens dropped just about everything thrown his way in a critical 37-30 loss to the Rams. After the game, Owens said, "I am at least as good, if not better, than Issac Bruce." The next month, Owens dropped a pass right into Chicago's Mike Brown who returned it for a pick six in overtime. Afterwards, Owens blamed coach Mariucci saying he intentionally lost it for SF. Then, in yet another playoff loss against GB, one just needs to watch that game to see how useless Owens was. The Packers won 26-26 and Owens blamed the loss on the lack of passes thrown his way. In fact, there were plenty of passes in the direction of Owens, but there just weren't that many completions. Owens made minimal production of it as he did 5 years later in the Dallas/Seattle Wild-Card Game.

  • In 2004, Owens went to Philadelphia. T.O. suffered a fractured fibula on December 19 and missed the remaining weeks of the regular season and the two playoff games to reach the Super Bowl. Incredibly, he was able to play in SB 39. In the big game, Owens caught nine passes for 122 yards. Yet on the Eagles three long touchdown drives of 81, 74, and 79 yards, Owens contributed very little to the success of those drives. Then, Owens inexplicably stopped dead in his tracks on a play that caused a McNabb interception. On the play, McNabb was clearly throwing where Owens was running until T.O. stopped for no reason. The Eagle radio announcer asked "Where was he throwing?" yet nobody criticized Owens for his mistake.

  • The 2005 Eagles fall apart and was riddled with Controversy between Owens and McNabb. The Eagles suspended Owens for being a distraction and when the season was over, Owens was cut. The Eagles won three playoff games over the next three years.

  • In the 2007, the Cowboys battled the Giants in the playoffs. Trailing in the 4th quarter, a catchable, long bomb to Owens near the goal line fell incomplete. Owens was criticized after the game for not making an adjustment by slowing down a even little bit to catch the ball. (Here I always think about Bruce in SB 34 slowing up to haul in the 73-yard strike and win the game).

Owens has the stats and will eventually make it into the Hall of Fame. I don't think there's any question about it. I just think that there is some leverage to the claim that T.O. dropped too many balls. Owens has certainly messed-up multiple times on the field, and that's not even counting the drama, criticism, and other issues off it.
 

tempests

Hall of Fame
Joined
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Messages
2,900
I just think that there is some leverage to the claim that T.O. dropped too many balls. Owens has certainly messed-up multiple times on the field, and that's not even counting the drama, criticism, and other issues off it.

Eh.....

Eric Dickerson fumbled too much. Brett Favre threw too many bad INTs. Ed Reed missed a lot of tackles. Somehow those things weren't and won't be held against them.

I never liked TO, but there are worse personalities in the Hall and certainly worse ones coming up on the ballot next year. It's the principle of the thing-HOF voters shouldn't invent reasons not to vote for a guy just because they don't like him. And that is what's happening now.
 

Ram65

Legend
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Apr 30, 2015
Messages
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Gotta say that it seems MDS is more upset that Borger disagreed with the group think over at PFT than really anything he said. How dare someone question Florio.

I happen to think getting into a hall of fame is more than stats. Owens hurt himself IMO. The hall should not feel bad about keeping out a turd.

You got me thinking RamFan503. TO has done some radio appearances he in Phila. recently. They (the hosts) seem to like him. He has mellowed but some of that has to be the HOF nomination and trying to get in. Some points they made were that TO was never in trouble with the law, No DUI's, no drugs, no domestic violence or involvement in late night/bar stuff. He did some funny things and some stupid things. Here a list of some antics TO did. He put the Eagles over the top in 2004 with 14 TD in 14 games. Played with a leg injury/? in super bowl and had a good day in the lose. Well he is the list and link. He was a turd at times.
http://football.about.com/od/nflnews/a/owenstimeline.htm

Terrell Owens
A Timeline of Terrell Owens' Antics




Terrell_Owens.jpg

Tammy Ferrufino/Wikimedia

By James Alder

NFL Expert
Wide receiver Terrell Owens has made his mark in the NFL as one of history's greatest receivers, but his impact on the league hasn't always been on a positive note. About Football has put together this timeline featuring some of Owens' more infamous antics during his NFL career.

  • 2000 - During an October contest in Dallas, Owens celebrated scoring a touchdown by running to midfield of Texas Stadium and posing on the star logo of the Cowboys. He later repeated his actions following another TD and was blindsided by the Cowboys' George Teague.


  • 2001 - After blowing a 19-point lead in Chicago and losing in overtime, the disgruntled receiver accused head coach Steve Mariucci of protecting good friend Dick Jauron, head coach of the Bears


  • 2002 - In an October contest on Monday Night Football in Seattle, Owens pulled a 'Sharpie' marker out of his sock after catching a TD pass. He then proceeded to autograph the ball and hand it to his financial adviser sitting in an end zone luxury suite rented by Shawn Springs, the CB he had just beaten on the play.

  • 2002 - After scoring a touchdown in a December contest with the Green Bay Packers, Owens celebrated with a pair of Pom-Poms borrowed from a 49ers cheerleader.


  • 2003 - Following a bumpy season that included several sideline tirades by Owens, he and the team decided to part ways.


  • 2004 - Owens’ agent failed to meet a free agency deadline in March, making him ineligible to become a free agent. Because they retained his rights, the 49ers then traded him to the Baltimore Ravens, but Owens refused to report to his new team. He expressed his desire to play in Philadelphia, and filed a grievance, claiming he should be granted free agency. After a series of negotiations, a deal was worked out between the three teams which sent Owens to Philadelphia where he signed a seven-year, $49 million deal against the advice of the players’ union.


  • 2004 - In an interview with Playboy magazine, Owens hinted that ex-teammate Jeff Garcia was gay, a claim he later recanted.


  • 2004 - In a November contest with the Baltimore Ravens, after scoring a touchdown, Owens openly mocked Ray Lewis by performing the middle linebacker’s trademark celebration dance.


  • 2004 - In a Monday Night contest later that month, Owens appeared in a controversial skit to kick off the network’s presentation of the game which resulted in an FCC investigation.


  • 2005 - Owens hired agent Drew Rosenhaus in April and announced he was not happy with his contract. He also tells CNBC that, despite making $7.5 million in 2004, he needs a new contract to “feed his family.”.


  • 2005 - After hinting that he might hold out of training camp, Owens shows up with a bad attitude, refusing to acknowledge the media or speak to his teammates. After a confrontation with head coach Andy Reid, he was suspended for one week.


  • 2005 - During an interview with ESPN's Graham Bensinger on November 3, Owens took shots at the Eagles franchise for not publicly recognizing his 100th touchdown catch. During the interview he stated the Eagles showed a "lack of class". He also suggested the Eagles would be better off with Packers QB Brett Favre instead of Donovan McNabb.


  • 2005 - On November 4, Owens issued a half-hearted apology through the media, but failed to deliver comments regarding Donovan McNabb, which head coach Andy Reid insisted he include.


  • 2005 - Owens was suspended November 5 by the Eagles for the club's contest against the Washington Redskins on November 6.


  • 2005 - On November 7, Owens' suspension was stretched to four games, and head coach Andy Reid added that Owens would not play for the remainder of the season.


  • 2006 - On March 14, the Eagles cut Owens just one day before he was due a $5 million roster bonus.


  • 2006 - On July 5, Owens released a tell-all book revealing his side of the story associated with his time in Philadelphia.


  • 2006 - On July 13, Owens claimed he was misquoted in his autobiography. Owens blamed the use of the word 'heroic" in association with his return for Super Bowl XXXIX on his co-author.


  • 2006 - On August 3, Owens missed the first of 14 consecutive days of practice because of a hamstring problem despite an MRI two days later revealing no major problems. After returning to practice for several days, Owens claimed he re-aggravated the injury because his coaches pushed him back to the playing field too soon. This time he didn't return to practice until August 29.


  • 2006 - On August 10, while still out with an injured hamstring, Owens drew attention to himself by wearing the silver and blue uniform of Lance Armstrong's Discovery Channel pro cycling team while riding a stationary bicycle on the sidelines.


  • 2006 - On September 26, Owens was taken by ambulance to Baylor University Medical Center for what was thought to be a suicide attempt. The following day, Owens denied trying to kill himself, claiming a mixture of pain pills and supplements caused him to be "out of it" when talking to emergency respondents


  • 2006 - On October 11, Owens had a run-in with receivers coach Todd Haley. After being chastised for showing up late for practice (he later explained he was in the bathroom), Owens and Haley tangled during a meeting later in the day.


  • 2006 - On December 16, in a victory over the Atlanta Falcons, Owens spit in the face of cornerback DeAngelo Hall.
 

Loyal

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The actual amount of "don't care" about T.O is just about limitless. My best memory of him was crying after a loss to the Rams in the locker room.. best d@mn video i ever saw....