Are we so sure that OT Wayne Hunter is a Cap Casualty?

[BonifayRam]

Every forum has the Ram Org. slicing Wayne Hunter's 3.95 Mil cap hit as a #1 target including myself. Could I be totally wrong here? been thinking lately that I may have jumped on this way too soon. This 31 yr old discarded former high third round pick & right OT Seahawks , Jags and Jets has proven to be a failed project @ Right OT. Wayne came to us very late just as the regular season was beginning for right OT Jason Smith but we paid much to get rid of Smith off our books we got Wayne. Before Wayne arrived the Swing OT or reserve OLT for Saffold was Quinn Ojinnaka. There is more to this story here... Quinn had also been working in @ OLG post he was not good but Quinn was able to play both OT & OG posts in an emergency. Quinn could not stand up to any bull rush from any DL'er just could not. When Wayne show'd up late in pre season Quinn Ojinnaka was released! The jets were desperate to get rid of Wayne and the Rams felt the same way about Jason Smith. Hunter like Barry Richardson were considered the worse ORT's in the NFL in 2011 & 2012. Ram started the season with 6-5 320 pound Hunter as the third swing OT. What happen?

Rodger Saffold goes down in the first quarter first game Hunter gets the call to play LEFT OT with Robert Turner who shifts to center for Wells and rookie green slim Watkins is introduced to the NFL next to Hunter @ OLG. Boudreau gets reacquainted with the Ram decade long curse of injury after injury to OL'ers. Could things go much worse for Wayne ?Getting to work his first time in the NFL @ left OT and gets a rookie Watkins next to him to help? Watkins stinks up the field in a disastrous game performance for him he is sent to the bench & Quinn Ojinnaka is resigned and inserted as starting OLG! Saffold returns to start in game two but Saffold does what he has done often got hurt once again and this time he could be out for a long long time again...Hunter is inserted back in @ left OT next to Ojinnaka. Hunter does something that he has never done in the NFL ...he held forth & displayed very good pass protection set up he was not on par with Saffold in run blocking but his ability to wall off speeders was much better than advertized. Did Boudreau really fix this up till now unfix-able OT? Even with the hapless Ojinnaka poor performance Wayne held way. After playing close to six games @ OLT he hurt his back late in the Miami game but returned with Nsekhe was being killed as Wayne back up. Wayne has suffered a serious back (Bulging out of place Disc) injury but finished the game. Wayne was not able to play again until mid November along with Saffold. Point is Hunter gave the Rams its first legit OLT play in reserve than its seen in a very long time.

While I rushed to close out his career as a Ram I did so based off that the Rams have critical need for his 4 mil in cap space plus after Wayne's 6 game performance other cap $$ fat teams will throw bundles of cash at him to get him to be a stop gap OLT for them like the Cards or Bears and so forth. The known thing here is no team pays 4 mil to fill the back up OLT post right? Let me throw in some other stuff....OLT Saffold has a proven injury record going into his final contractual yr he has been injured 2 out of his 3 NFL seasons. Hunter proved to be better than average @ left side protector. Rams will need to buy a Swing OT from somewhere to fill the vacant Wayne Hunter position. Can the Rams take a chance here without a starter @ ORT without a Swing OT with a Saffold ? What about a OLT in 2014 anyone think the Rams will pay the standard 8 to 9 mil for a UFA starting young vet OLT contract with what they have had to go through with Saffold injuries?

Could a restructure extension deal be the best for the Rams & Wayne Hunter? Re investing in Hunter success @ OLT play makes the millions more sound and smart if he starts @ OLT post. Could this reworked contact friendly deal get Hunter a real serious look @ starting OLT with Saffold sliding right a few feet to OLG? Thus resolving the left side issues with two vets who are seasoned & know this Rams offense & Paul Boudreau. If OLG Saffold gets injured again the lost of him will not be as hard to replace @ OLG with Shelley Smith, Rok Watkins & Brandon Washington on the roster? if Hunter is injured then Saffold can be inserted back into his old post! Looks to me that this would leave take away all those unknowns & needs of the Rams @ OLG, ORT & Swing OT. The veteran Sam Bradford OL could look something like this;

OLT-Hunter 6-5/320-32/10 Res.Nsekhe
OLG-Saffold 6-4/315-26/4 Res.Washington
OC-Wells/ 6-2/300-32/10 Res.Smith & Barnes
ORG-Dahl 6-5/308-32/8 Res.Watkins
ORT-Barksdale 6-4/330-24/2[2013 Draft Pick]


Am I crazy here? Stupid? Could Demoff-Snead-Fisher & Boudreau have a totally different look towards Wayne Hunter than what we have seen thus far?

 

[Lesson]

I think that the cap going up 3 mil. this season certainly helps his chances of staying a Ram.

I don't think he needs to be released or re-negotiated with because of that and Jackson's contract situation.

 

[iced]

if he's not starting, why pay him that much? It's not like he was all that great either

 

[bluecoconuts]

I don't really see them moving Saffold to G, especially not next year.

 

[CGI_Ram]

if he's not starting, why pay him that much? It's not like he was all that great either

Yep.

The only way Wayne Hunter is back is with a new contract.

 

[Ram Quixote]

I don't believe you want to mess so much with continuity on the Oline, unless you can get a player that's a real upgrade. Hunter is not. Saffold is a much better LT than Hunter; his only issue is health. Considering that he was healthy at the end of last season, that's a change in this offseason from last. Most players would tell you that spending an offseason in rehab (or at least half of it) doesn't allow one to get into shape for training camp.

So let's stick with keeping continuity at 3 positions:

LT--Saffold
LG--?
C--Wells
RG--Dahl*
RT--?

Hunter may be back, but not at 3.95 mill.

*possible cap casualty.

 

[Simba]

I think Fisher is trying to renegotiate a lot of Rams Players' contracts, and W.Hunter is among these players.

 

[BonifayRam]

I don't believe you want to mess so much with continuity on the Oline, unless you can get a player that's a real upgrade. Hunter is not. Saffold is a much better LT than Hunter; his only issue is health. Considering that he was healthy at the end of last season, that's a change in this offseason from last. Most players would tell you that spending an offseason in rehab (or at least half of it) doesn't allow one to get into shape for training camp.

So let's stick with keeping continuity at 3 positions:

LT--Saffold
LG--?
C--Wells
RG--Dahl*
RT--?

Hunter may be back, but not at 3.95 mill.

*possible cap casualty.

First I do agree fully that Hunter can not be retained @ his current contractual mandate. I see only two options here, one lets you keep last seasons #6 OL back up OLT ... would be for Wayne Hunter to be #1 restructured or #2 Wayne is released. I also fully agree with you on maintaining the same OL is very very important. Thus the reason for my change of my mind & my new suggestion on Wayne Hunter to be retained. WE need to have some of the Same key OL'ers retained. If the Rams release him you loose an important OL Swing OT from the 2012 season who filled in at a critical moment in time very early last season when the OL fail into injury shambles. Hunter's excellent play @ OLT was very important as the Rams experienced three new players in three new OL posts during game one. I maintain that it was Hunter's heavy lifting from the OLT post that kept things together. It sure was not the outstanding play of Quinn Ojinnaka or Turner that held up under heavy pass rush early in September & into October. Hunter is not without some bargaining chips himself many teams desire a swing OT like Hunter and will pay.

But I do have a different assessment of Saffold. #1- When your most vital OL position is lost for major chunks of the last two seasons totaling 16 games where major parts or complete games are missed you do not have anything close to (using your word) Continuity. Does it? Thats what you get now from having Saffold starting @ OLT. I also have a vastly different opinion of Saffold's pass protection being better than Hunters from what I observed from Wayne was a complete follow through of Paul Boudreau style instructions on finesse pass protection.

I will agree that Saffold is a far better run blocker. IMO Saffold may be one of the top five best run blockers in the NFL @ OLT it would be hard to find many who are better. ButtMonkey here there is no way I can put Saffold name in @ OLT & say we have continuity when you do not have a valid OLT back up. Plus Saffold being in his last season under contract before UFA also does not offer much for OL continuity in future terms after this season with him. winning NFL teams prepare in advance on issues like Saffolds. Like I said in the initial post you would not have the same concerns with Saffold going down as your OLG.

This would be the season to plan for the real possibility that the Rams starting OLT will be gone @ the conclusion of 2013. I also know that most Ram fans think only in the terms of now & rarely discuss much in future preparation in our fantasy Ram world as fans. I simply offered up an suggested 2013 Ram OL where 4/5ths of its starters are Ram seasoned vets that average age of the four is 31 yrs old and average 8 yrs of OL experience. Thus leaving only one starting position open. I was hoping to avoid the situation you mentioned in your post where the Rams are forced to insert two new OL starters & a brand new Swing OT(6th OL'er) into the Rams 2013 OL. In my mind I have a hard time seeing the continuity you spoke of in your post.

I strongly hope the Rams finally address the OT's in this draft. I am not as concerned @ the OG posts. If as projected by most all mocks the three top OLT's are selected by the time the Rams are up. The second tier OT tier will have to do. But if you are looking for a starting ORT & a Swing OT in this one draft its one hell of a high task. That swing OT would also have to be considered a starting OLT in 2014 too!

Here hows I look @ this Saffold situation if it were one year from now 2014 UFA open season Saffold is a UFA are you going to pay large sums of cap $$ off what we know NOW? No no way to pay. What does a 26 yr old starting OLT going for in the NFL? I thought Saffold played better than OLT Jake Long last yr who also has injury history but not like Saffolds. Jake is demanding 11 million a year in a long term contract. So a Saffold would be somewhere around 9 to 10 mil Rams will be hard pressed to come close to anything close to that. Profootballtalk.com just posted that UFA ORT Andre Smith is seeking $9 million a year.

Thats why Hunter presence on our roster is something. I consider Saffold a short term OL'er due to the above. So I would plan to place him where his back to back seasonal injuries do not continue to plague the Rams in 2013 as in 2011 & 2012. For the last two seasons Saffold has caused, along with other OL'ers an Unsettled OL. Do you want to purchase a long term OLT who has a history of that? The damage was contained last season due to Wayne Hunter's relief of Saffold in 6 games. Rams went 3 wins & 3 losses in games where Hunter manned the OLT post. When Hunter went out for two games with an injury what happen in the Packers & Patriots games? Both games were over midway through the 2nd quarter in very big losses.

 

[duckhunter]

Until we find some new trueblood at OT, we do nothing more than try to renegotiate his contract at a swing tackle price and look for a mid priced FA RT. Personally, I don't see any of the top 4 OL prospects falling to us at 16 and believe it is very risky to think that Watson or Armstead slides in seamlessly. Unless Bo puts a cattle prod up Fluker's ass he doesn't have the quick twitch to handle the college speed rush game much less pro game. Well, I guess you could tape Mulligan on Fluker's right side on every passing play if we went that route. The tape might give the play away to the opposing defense. Didn't think of that.

The empirer would have no clothes if we cut Hunter at this point.

Heck, Hunter and his agent may be saying start him at RT and swing him over if Saffold goes down.

 

[F. Mulder]

Until we find some new trueblood at OT, we do nothing more than try to renegotiate his contract at a swing tackle price and look for a mid priced FA RT. Personally, I don't see any of the top 4 OL prospects falling to us at 16 and believe it is very risky to think that Watson or Armstead slides in seamlessly. Unless Bo puts a cattle prod up Fluker's ass he doesn't have the quick twitch to handle the college speed rush game much less pro game. Well, I guess you could tape Mulligan on Fluker's right side on every passing play if we went that route. The tape might give the play away to the opposing defense. Didn't think of that.

The empirer would have no clothes if we cut Hunter at this point.

Heck, Hunter and his agent may be saying start him at RT and swing him over if Saffold goes down.

I still don't think they keep Hunter despite his versatility and decent overall play. I could see them trying to bring back Richardson or Hunter and use Ty and Barksdale as potential camp challengers but I don't think they will do that. If Lane Johnson is somehow there they jump all over him.

If the top 3 are gone then I agree about Fluker and Watson--I don't want them to reach for those two. Watson might have more upside but he is still somewhat a project and I don't want a project at 16. I'm not high on Fluker unless he somehow falls into the second. Armstead is interesting but he is going to get overdrafted due to his athleticism vs. his performance IMO.

BTW, welcome Duckhunter. The gang's all getting here!

 

[duckhunter]

Until we find some new trueblood at OT, we do nothing more than try to renegotiate his contract at a swing tackle price and look for a mid priced FA RT. Personally, I don't see any of the top 4 OL prospects falling to us at 16 and believe it is very risky to think that Watson or Armstead slides in seamlessly. Unless Bo puts a cattle prod up Fluker's ass he doesn't have the quick twitch to handle the college speed rush game much less pro game. Well, I guess you could tape Mulligan on Fluker's right side on every passing play if we went that route. The tape might give the play away to the opposing defense. Didn't think of that.

The empirer would have no clothes if we cut Hunter at this point.

Heck, Hunter and his agent may be saying start him at RT and swing him over if Saffold goes down.

I still don't think they keep Hunter despite his versatility and decent overall play. I could see them trying to bring back Richardson or Hunter and use Ty and Barksdale as potential camp challengers but I don't think they will do that. If Lane Johnson is somehow there they jump all over him.

If the top 3 are gone then I agree about Fluker and Watson--I don't want them to reach for those two. Watson might have more upside but he is still somewhat a project and I don't want a project at 16. I'm not high on Fluker unless he somehow falls into the second. Armstead is interesting but he is going to get overdrafted due to his athleticism vs. his performance IMO.

BTW, welcome Duckhunter. The gang's all getting here!

Thanks F Mulder.

I'm slow to the trigger.

You've got Fluker, Watson and Armstead nailed. Be nice to give them some developmental time. Someone said Fluker is a slow learner or something on that order.

Rolling the dice on these guys seems like we're giving back some of what we gained from the RGIII trade.

 

[BonifayRam]

Until we find some new trueblood at OT, we do nothing more than try to renegotiate his contract at a swing tackle price and look for a mid priced FA RT. Personally, I don't see any of the top 4 OL prospects falling to us at 16 and believe it is very risky to think that Watson or Armstead slides in seamlessly. Unless Bo puts a cattle prod up Fluker's ass he doesn't have the quick twitch to handle the college speed rush game much less pro game. Well, I guess you could tape Mulligan on Fluker's right side on every passing play if we went that route. The tape might give the play away to the opposing defense. Didn't think of that.

The empirer would have no clothes if we cut Hunter at this point.

Heck, Hunter and his agent may be saying start him at RT and swing him over if Saffold goes down.

I still don't think they keep Hunter despite his versatility and decent overall play. I could see them trying to bring back Richardson or Hunter and use Ty and Barksdale as potential camp challengers but I don't think they will do that. If Lane Johnson is somehow there they jump all over him.

If the top 3 are gone then I agree about Fluker and Watson--I don't want them to reach for those two. Watson might have more upside but he is still somewhat a project and I don't want a project at 16. I'm not high on Fluker unless he somehow falls into the second. Armstead is interesting but he is going to get overdrafted due to his athleticism vs. his performance IMO.

BTW, welcome Duckhunter. The gang's all getting here!

Thanks F Mulder.

I'm slow to the trigger.

You've got Fluker, Watson and Armstead nailed. Be nice to give them some developmental time. Someone said Fluker is a slow learner or something on that order.

Rolling the dice on these guys seems like we're giving back some of what we gained from the RGIII trade.

My thoughts are different on Menelik Watson but I am with you all on the other two second tier OT's.I believe the raw Menelik is made to order for Paul Boudreau. With Menelik I believe you can land you a starter @ ORT with the #22 pick with Menelik sound like a reach but when its all said & done may be the best move. But he his physical abilities oozes with the raw stuff made for OLT"s that the Ram will need in 2014. If Kyle Long is there @ #78 you take him! Let Paul Boudreau become the next Jim Hanifan the legend.

 

[CGI_Ram]

BTW, welcome Duckhunter. The gang's all getting here!

Co sign. Don't be a stranger. Good to see you!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[duckhunter]

Boni,

Saw your comments earlier about Watson and they comforted me considerably. Honestly my blood pressure goes balistic just thinking about another project in the 1st, particularly an OLinemen after so many years of pleading for help there. I have deep scars going all the way back to the Cardinals Bob Devaney taking a PK in the first and a color blind QB in the first another year. I think whiffing on a 1st rounder ranks right up there with a whore rubbing elbows with the open-minded good ladies in church or a politician walking through the pearly gates to meet the all knowing maker.

CGI,

Thanks for the invite and the welcome. You, X, and the other guys got a nice discussion board. I've been lurking on the board since you invited me. I'll try not to step on anyone's toes.